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Thankful for Elin Changes

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  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,313Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by eyelolled


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by eyelolled


    Originally posted by heartless

    Let me rephrase my question again, since you, and other proponents of Elins seem to avoid it. Do you or do you not, consider a cartoon depicting children in a pornographic manner as OK?

    Just out of curiosity, do you consider seeing a childs tummy or thigh as pornographic?

    Depends on the context. If the child is at a beach or a pool, then obviously no. However, if the child was presented like they are on "Toddlers and Tiaras" or how Elin are presented in this game, then yes.

    The unfortunate thing is that it's not pornographic, and exaggerating the facts does not make your point more credible. The Elin portrayal may very well be offensive, disturbing and in poor taste, but it's not pornographic.  Implying that if a person doesn't care about it means they are supporting child pornography, just makes you a radical.

    It actually can be considered "pornographic" if you look up the meaning of the word.

    Pretty much anything can be considered subject matter intended for sexual arousal.  Latex. Feet. Sheep. Apple Pie.  

     

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Common
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  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kuro1n

    EDIT: Actually what i said could apply to you as well Heartless, if it disturbs you that much it could just be as simple as that you should avoid it alltogether. As long as its not breaking any laws it shouldnt really be an issue for you if you dont play it.

    I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, this whole Elin falls into a grey area. Technically it's not against the law but it's also not exactly moral.

    Am I going to ignore the game because of how Elin are depicted in it? Probably not. The game has other issues that don't exactly enjoy and if anything I will ignore the game based on them. My view on the whole thing, and I believe that I made it clear over the many pages (lol), is that I don't support sexualized depiction of children in video games or any other media for that matter. I'm really openminded in a lot of things. I support gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, legalization of not just marijuana but all drugs, even though I don't use them. Basically, whatever you want to do, as long as it's not hurting others, you have my blessings.

    But we all have to draw the line somewhere and this is where I draw mine. There are other, unrelated, issues I feel just as strongly, if not more so, about but this is neither the time nor the place to discuss them.

    image

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Pretty much anything can be considered subject matter intended for sexual arousal.  Latex. Feet. Sheep. Apple Pie.  

     

    Would probably depend on the context though, wouldn't you agree? An apple pie by itself is not pornographic, neither is a woman for that matter. Add a few "props" though and you're on your way to making a Bangbros classic.

    image

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapPosts: 7,777Member Rare

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Kuro1n



    EDIT: Actually what i said could apply to you as well Heartless, if it disturbs you that much it could just be as simple as that you should avoid it alltogether. As long as its not breaking any laws it shouldnt really be an issue for you if you dont play it.

    I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, this whole Elin falls into a grey area. Technically it's not against the law but it's also not exactly moral.

    Am I going to ignore the game because of how Elin are depicted in it? Probably not. The game has other issues that don't exactly enjoy and if anything I will ignore the game based on them. My view on the whole thing, and I believe that I made it clear over the many pages (lol), is that I don't support sexualized depiction of children in video games or any other media for that matter. I'm really openminded in a lot of things. I support gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, legalization of not just marijuana but all drugs, even though I don't use them. Basically, whatever you want to do, as long as it's not hurting others, you have my blessings.

    But we all have to draw the line somewhere and this is where I draw mine. There are other, unrelated, issues I feel just as strongly, if not more so, about but this is neither the time nor the place to discuss them.

    so you support abortion (killing a living being before its birth) but you cant act indiferent in front a virtual character like the elins?... tahts weird, some people are weird...

    i wonder why Mortal kombat never got banned for being so violent with fatalities and promoting murders but they have to put more clothes on elins because its disturbing in the west..... thats funny lol

    image
  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,313Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Pretty much anything can be considered subject matter intended for sexual arousal.  Latex. Feet. Sheep. Apple Pie.  

     

    Would probably depend on the context though, wouldn't you agree? An apple pie by itself is not pornographic, neither is a woman for that matter. Add a few "props" though and you're on your way to making a Bangbros classic.

    Actually, you don't need props, you just need the pervert. The pervert sees the sexuality in things that aren't sexual. The pervert lusts for the apple pie, or whatever their particular perversion is. It's the pervert that takes the innocent and looks at it with lust.

    Like I said before, the Elin may be portrayed in poor taste, but it's not pornography.  If you see pornography, then thats because you see pornography, not because it is pornography.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rojo6934

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by Kuro1n



    EDIT: Actually what i said could apply to you as well Heartless, if it disturbs you that much it could just be as simple as that you should avoid it alltogether. As long as its not breaking any laws it shouldnt really be an issue for you if you dont play it.

    I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, this whole Elin falls into a grey area. Technically it's not against the law but it's also not exactly moral.

    Am I going to ignore the game because of how Elin are depicted in it? Probably not. The game has other issues that don't exactly enjoy and if anything I will ignore the game based on them. My view on the whole thing, and I believe that I made it clear over the many pages (lol), is that I don't support sexualized depiction of children in video games or any other media for that matter. I'm really openminded in a lot of things. I support gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, legalization of not just marijuana but all drugs, even though I don't use them. Basically, whatever you want to do, as long as it's not hurting others, you have my blessings.

    But we all have to draw the line somewhere and this is where I draw mine. There are other, unrelated, issues I feel just as strongly, if not more so, about but this is neither the time nor the place to discuss them.

    so you support abortion (killing a living being before its birth) but you cant act indiferent in front a virtual character like the elins?... tahts weird, some people are weird...

    i wonder why Mortal kombat never got banned for being so violent with fatalities and promoting murders but they have to put more clothes on elins because its disturbing in the west..... thats funny lol

    During the early stages of embryonic development, yes. It's not techically a living being yet, just a clump of cells.

    Violence in video games and sexual depiction of children in video games are two different things.{mod edit}

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,331Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rojo6934

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by Kuro1n



    EDIT: Actually what i said could apply to you as well Heartless, if it disturbs you that much it could just be as simple as that you should avoid it alltogether. As long as its not breaking any laws it shouldnt really be an issue for you if you dont play it.

    I've said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, this whole Elin falls into a grey area. Technically it's not against the law but it's also not exactly moral.

    Am I going to ignore the game because of how Elin are depicted in it? Probably not. The game has other issues that don't exactly enjoy and if anything I will ignore the game based on them. My view on the whole thing, and I believe that I made it clear over the many pages (lol), is that I don't support sexualized depiction of children in video games or any other media for that matter. I'm really openminded in a lot of things. I support gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, legalization of not just marijuana but all drugs, even though I don't use them. Basically, whatever you want to do, as long as it's not hurting others, you have my blessings.

    But we all have to draw the line somewhere and this is where I draw mine. There are other, unrelated, issues I feel just as strongly, if not more so, about but this is neither the time nor the place to discuss them.

    so you support abortion (killing a living being before its birth) but you cant act indiferent in front a virtual character like the elins?... tahts weird, some people are weird...

    i wonder why Mortal kombat never got banned for being so violent with fatalities and promoting murders but they have to put more clothes on elins because its disturbing in the west..... thats funny lol

    Because adults suck and have had many years to build up all the bad karma that decides they've got what's coming...or something...kids are looked at as innocent and require protecting, it's something that's instilled in the culture. You can't expect people to just turn a blind eye to it just because another culture thinks differently about it. I'm pretty sure that you'll see giant penis sculptures decorating the landscape in certain parts of Japan (read about it in an article, don't remember where at specifically), and you won't see that here. But by the same token, it wasn't that long ago that showing pubic hair was illegal in Japan, even if you saw plenty of it in art over here. Cultures are funny like that, and they're not going to up and change on a whim just because someone wants to play a video game. Context people, context.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • BenjolaBenjola Posts: 833Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Like I said before, the Elin may be portrayed in poor taste, but it's not pornography.  If you see pornography, then thats because you see pornography, not because it is pornography.

    Same fail argument again lol.

    Maybe read the thread to check many different views on it, it was discussed in lenght I think.

    The fact is, there is a problem with the Elin, if there wasn't,  threads like this one wouldn't exist.

    And this is not some isolated whining about FOTM classes or some nonsense like that from few posters, it's all over the internet including Tera itself.

    Like I said, zone chat in game is 90% about pedos, Ellin players are getting abused all over the place, Ellin player = pedo, that's the word on Tera street lol.

    Ignoring the issue and saying it's not there, is all in your head is just childish and silly attempt to RP a psychologist by clueless people that apperantly wouldn't recognize human psychology even if it bites them in the azz.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapPosts: 7,777Member Rare

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

     

    Because adults suck and have had many years to build up all the bad karma that decides they've got what's coming...or something...kids are looked at as innocent and require protecting, it's something that's instilled in the culture. You can't expect people to just turn a blind eye to it just because another culture thinks differently about it. I'm pretty sure that you'll see giant penis sculptures decorating the landscape in certain parts of Japan (read about it in an article, don't remember where at specifically), and you won't see that here. But by the same token, it wasn't that long ago that showing pubic hair was illegal in Japan, even if you saw plenty of it in art over here. Cultures are funny like that, and they're not going to up and change on a whim just because someone wants to play a video game. Context people, context.

    there you have it... its an asian game made with assian culture and settings. Why change it to match our culture? we can always make our own game following our culture and rules. But your answer about my comparison from elins and mortal kombat is weird.... so it is completely normal to vote against elins  and give protection to a kid but we cant worry about walking out one night and getting stabbed by a psychopath ?  if elins can have bad influence on kids vs adults as people claim, mortal kombat will definitely turn people into murderers...

     

    image
  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Pretty much anything can be considered subject matter intended for sexual arousal.  Latex. Feet. Sheep. Apple Pie.  

     

    Would probably depend on the context though, wouldn't you agree? An apple pie by itself is not pornographic, neither is a woman for that matter. Add a few "props" though and you're on your way to making a Bangbros classic.

    Actually, you don't need props, you just need the pervert. The pervert sees the sexuality in things that aren't sexual. The pervert lusts for the apple pie, or whatever their particular perversion is. It's the pervert that takes the innocent and looks at it with lust.

    Like I said before, the Elin may be portrayed in poor taste, but it's not pornography.  If you see pornography, then thats because you see pornography, not because it is pornography.

    The issue arises in how things are protrayed. A picture of a woman is just that--a picture of a woman. But if a woman in that picture were depicted in a provocative manner, it doesn't take a pervert to recognize what sort of emotions that picture was meant to evoke.

    image

  • FaynthFaynth Neunkirchen-SeelscheidPosts: 237Member

    Originally posted by Sentime

     

    Not to point out the obvious, but an Eiin is NOT an underage little girl.

    More then likely its some big dude on the other end playing a killer toon, if you insist on relating a geme to reality.

    I do understand though that some people will be upset and think an Eiin might be the "gateway" to pedophelia, much like so  many think weed is a gateway to heroin.  Cause I understand most of humanity is mentally and emotianaly unevolved at best and flat out nuts at worst.

    Hell even IF some sick people are wanking to video games i can have that better then same sick peeps out in the street (y'know real life, outside) preying on kids...

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapPosts: 7,777Member Rare

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by eyelolled


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Pretty much anything can be considered subject matter intended for sexual arousal.  Latex. Feet. Sheep. Apple Pie.  

     

    Would probably depend on the context though, wouldn't you agree? An apple pie by itself is not pornographic, neither is a woman for that matter. Add a few "props" though and you're on your way to making a Bangbros classic.

    Actually, you don't need props, you just need the pervert. The pervert sees the sexuality in things that aren't sexual. The pervert lusts for the apple pie, or whatever their particular perversion is. It's the pervert that takes the innocent and looks at it with lust.

    Like I said before, the Elin may be portrayed in poor taste, but it's not pornography.  If you see pornography, then thats because you see pornography, not because it is pornography.

    The issue arises in how things are protrayed. A picture of a woman is just that--a picture of a woman. But if a woman in that picture were depicted in a provocative manner, it doesn't take a pervert to recognize what sort of emotions that picture was meant to evoke.

    if those emotions interfere with the progression of your character in the game, then the problem is in your head and not in the game.

    image
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapPosts: 7,777Member Rare

    Originally posted by Jesterftk

    Originally posted by Benjola


     

    Like I said, zone chat in game is 90% about pedos, Ellin players are getting abused all over the place, Ellin player = pedo, that's the word on Tera street lol.

     

    'word on WHAT street in TERA?? besides some sory individuals claiming that, i had nobody spewing this bullshit in my game sessions...

    the chat was infested with trolls in all my beta sessions, trolling about the elins and the game alltogether. Just trolling very hard... even people made character named pedobears and crap and trolled more.... i dont understand why some people play a game, troll it to death and keep playing it

    a good exaple of the trolling is that everyone playing an elin was supossed to be a pedo to roll that race.... plain stupid

    image
  • BenjolaBenjola Posts: 833Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Are you under the impression that I approve of the Elin? Do you know how to read or just spout off? Try and read what a person is saying if you want to argue with them, unless you are nothing more then a mouthpeice, in which you just can't understand the concept.

    You stated the weak fail argument that was stated few times in the thread by the most clueless posters as of yet...

    I got the right impression don't worry about it.

     

     

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,512Member Uncommon

    This gimmich will end rather soon, the same way the gimmick of boobs and nipples ended in AoC. Then only the quality of the gameplay will matter for those who choose to stay and play the game.

     

    In the midtime, negative publicity is still publicity.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,331Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rojo6934

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer


     

    Because adults suck and have had many years to build up all the bad karma that decides they've got what's coming...or something...kids are looked at as innocent and require protecting, it's something that's instilled in the culture. You can't expect people to just turn a blind eye to it just because another culture thinks differently about it. I'm pretty sure that you'll see giant penis sculptures decorating the landscape in certain parts of Japan (read about it in an article, don't remember where at specifically), and you won't see that here. But by the same token, it wasn't that long ago that showing pubic hair was illegal in Japan, even if you saw plenty of it in art over here. Cultures are funny like that, and they're not going to up and change on a whim just because someone wants to play a video game. Context people, context.

    there you have it... its an asian game made with assian culture and settings. Why change it to match our culture? we can always make our own game following our culture and rules. But your answer about my comparison from elins and mortal kombat is weird.... so it is completely normal to vote against elins  and give protection to a kid but we cant worry about walking out one night and getting stabbed by a psychopath ?  if elins can have bad influence on kids vs adults as people claim, mortal kombat will definitely turn people into murderers...

     

    You keep trying for a strawman argument which is why it's not working. Your comparisons are superficial at best and really have little to do with the subject matter. People protect what they can and get over what they can't. A bunch of mindless murderers (Mortal Kombat combatants) are not going to rile people's hackles like a sexualized little girl will. Murderers killing each other, not a bad thing. Sexualized children, bad thing. Do you see why your comparisons make no sense? What does anything you, I or anyone else in this thread have said so far have to do with fear of getting stabbed by a psycopath? People fear that regardless.

    As for Mortal Kombat, which you keep bringing up, you are under this illusion that no one minds it. That game is the reason for the ESRB rating, without it it may never have existed. That was created when the first Mortal Kombat came out and people head tripped over the decapitations. People to this day have issues with the excessive violence, and those issues were stirred again when the most recent one came out. The difference is the majority ruled, and the majority decided it wasn't that big a deal like they have with every other violent game out there. Here, the majority once again ruled, and the majority don't want to see little girls in thongs, end of discussion really.

    " its an asian game made with assian culture and settings. Why change it to match our culture?"

    Because it's an Asian game that's being brought over to the West, and our culture decided it has to play by a different set of rules.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • BenjolaBenjola Posts: 833Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Are you under the impression that I approve of the Elin? Do you know how to read or just spout off? Try and read what a person is saying if you want to argue with them, unless you are nothing more then a mouthpeice, in which you just can't understand the concept.

    I'm not under any impressions.

    I react on your post which was pretty much an echo of the most funny "psychological" theories made by the most clueless posters in the thread so far, I'm not gonna bother to quote them, it came down to something like "Ellin isn't sexy to me therefore she isn't sexy, if it looks sexy to you, you are the pervert".

    You just said it in a more diplomatic way.

    vv


    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Actually, you don't need props, you just need the pervert. The pervert sees the sexuality in things that aren't sexual. The pervert lusts for the apple pie, or whatever their particular perversion is. It's the pervert that takes the innocent and looks at it with lust.

    Like I said before, the Elin may be portrayed in poor taste, but it's not pornography.  If you see pornography, then thats because you see pornography, not because it is pornography.

    If I missunderstood then is my bad, or I blame it on a language barrier and tiredness.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Originally posted by Benjola


    Originally posted by eyelolled



    Are you under the impression that I approve of the Elin? Do you know how to read or just spout off? Try and read what a person is saying if you want to argue with them, unless you are nothing more then a mouthpeice, in which you just can't understand the concept.

    You stated the weak fail argument that was stated few times in the thread by the most clueless posters as of yet...

    I got the right impression don't worry about it.

     

     

    So do you feel hidden urges about the Elin? Do the little panties make you twinge and you can't bear to look cause you're starting to think of them inappropriately?  Do you need them to be censored so that you can quell your hidden lust? I'm pretty sure that you've got a BIG reason to be against it. The people that speak the loudest have a REASON to speak up. Lets face it, its more then you just wanting them to be censored.

    There has to be a logical fallacy somewhere in that argument, just not sure where it is... Oh wait, the whole argument is a logical fallacy.

    Edit: to clarify a bit, attacks on someone's person are never a good way to support your argument.

    image

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Benjola

    Yeah, another armchear wannabe 'psychologist' that gonna 'teach' us the way lol.

    I was right then.

    Hey eyelolled, if you want to check my view on the whole thing read the thread, we discussed it all in detail.

    Educate yourself before spewing idiocy :)

    Yea, the whole "if you see anything wrong then you're the problem" argument is really played out at this point.

    So is the whole violent video games nonsense.

    I don't mind a good discussion but having to answer and reanswer the same questions over and over again gets boring.

    image

  • BenjolaBenjola Posts: 833Member Uncommon

    Ok, I'm done for today, gotta catch a power nap, willing to continue tomorrow if anyone else have questions.

    Laters.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,313Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by eyelolled


    Originally posted by Benjola


    Originally posted by eyelolled



    Are you under the impression that I approve of the Elin? Do you know how to read or just spout off? Try and read what a person is saying if you want to argue with them, unless you are nothing more then a mouthpeice, in which you just can't understand the concept.

    You stated the weak fail argument that was stated few times in the thread by the most clueless posters as of yet...

    I got the right impression don't worry about it.

     

     

    So do you feel hidden urges about the Elin? Do the little panties make you twinge and you can't bear to look cause you're starting to think of them inappropriately?  Do you need them to be censored so that you can quell your hidden lust? I'm pretty sure that you've got a BIG reason to be against it. The people that speak the loudest have a REASON to speak up. Lets face it, its more then you just wanting them to be censored.

    There has to be a logical fallacy somewhere in that argument, just not sure where it is... Oh wait, the whole argument is a logical fallacy.

    Edit: to clarify a bit, attacks on someone's person are never a good way to support your argument.

    The logical fallacy is thinking that I was arguing at all.

    To clarify: If you want to think it's helpful to call it pornography, then go ahead. If he wants to think that I am arguing to support the Elin portrayal, then he can go ahead.  

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,231Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

    Originally posted by Lille7

    I don't really care about the change, personally i felt it was unecessary, but it's nothing that's really worth complaining about :P

    What i do wonder though is that people who see the people who play them as perverts also think people who watch cat videos on youtube is into beastiality?

     

    It's called projection bias.  People that are the first to accuse someone of something, naturally have a guilty conscious.

    Put another way "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

     

    What is more intresting than the topic itself is how people react to it. 

  • TalRashaTalRasha GroningenPosts: 827Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rav3n2

    Arent the changes just for the US? I dont think these changes are in the EU version.

    They are, but the changes are so minor, you would not see it if you don't look for it.

     

    It's not the shorts, because those are in the korean version too. As far as I can see the only difference is that in the EU/US version the belly button of Elins is covered.

    Because belly buttons are shocking!

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