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What was the first signal to you that this multi-multi-million dollar game was seriously flawed?

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  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Originally posted by noncley

    For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.

    What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?

     

    The UI actually.   It was clearly a single-player UI with some pretty much worthless raid-frames added to it...   It was like nobody at BioWare got the message that MMOs that give characters tons of single-purpose skills need at least semi-customizable UIs because, unlike NWN or someother such single-player game, we can't pause combat to run through our bars to find the appropriate counter-skill...

     

      

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by noncley

    For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.

    What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?

    Actually, Han and Chewie did sit in the movie. Many of the characters sat at times. Not that this is relevent to a game being flawed or not. Plenty of actual game play flaws that seem a bit more serious are posted on here plenty. Not sure how this post is adding much to conversation. You could've mentioned not being able to swim, too, but why bother. I'd like to see more threads about the next games to be released or actual news on current games.

  • OdyssesOdysses Anacortes, WAPosts: 581Member

    For me it was the first combat fight.  I tried to adjust settings in the UI and realized from an MMO standpoint that it wasn't up to par with my expectations.   SWToR has a great story telling aspect of the game.  Outside of that, it is very average strictly comparing it to other MMO's on the market.

  • NobadeeftwNobadeeftw Houston, TXPosts: 128Member

    I was seriously psyched about this game; because I am a big Star Wars fan; but, after I took part in beta all of my enthusiasm for it withered away.  I had a little hope that things would improve once the game went live; but, on recollection I have never seen an MMO ever succeed in doing that ever.  It generally takes a decent MMO about 6 months to a year to smooth out the major set backs; by then the game has either generated a healthy or bad reputation.

    I liked the idea of the game being voiced; but, it really isn't all voiced.  That was a trick that I learned right away.  They can voice half the aliens in the game using the same sound wave repeating over and over, then have you reading miles of text and technically they can still say it's fully voiced.  Like how that works?  That wasn't the only thing those sneaky bastards tried to blow past everyone.  I caught them red handed lying their butts off on multiple occasions; so have many others.  They have horrible PR and with that always comes tension between the developers and the subscribers.

    The game was built on a horrible engine, half the player base can't even get an enjoyable experience out of it on minimum settings.  That spells doom for an MMO when everyone with a litle common sense knows that a game with great performance is always going to out last a pretty looking game that hardly anyone can run on their PC.

    I had formed a guild with friends expecting this game to show me some good; but, I saw little to no potential in it's future.  I recently unsubbed and haven't touched it in about a week.  Basically I leveled a toon to level 50 and was immediatly uninterested with anything available at endgame due to all the obvious problems it all presented.

    I may come back and give it another look in the future, if the world doesn't end.

  • CorthagathCorthagath KotkaPosts: 291Member

    i just didnt like the design, how the game looked like, and that was already a deal breaker for me, never even tried the game

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Two things jumped out at me 6-12 months before release.  The first was that the screenhots seemed to show a lot of linear gameplay areas.  Lots of unclimable "artificial walls".   The second was the constant pushing of "story" by Bioware.  It wasn't so much that they were pushing their story idea, but that I wasn't hearing anything new or exciting about the actual gameplay.  

    These two things pretty much told me all I needed to know, and when I finally played it I turned out to be right. By the time it released I had a good understanding of what the game was and wanted, and I was pretty accurate.  One thing I didn't expected was the lifelessness and lack of atmosphere in the game.

    Why buy something that you knew was going to be what you didn't like? Kind of supports the companies to keep making these kinds of games. It surprises me that many of TOR's biggest critics before launch bought this game, istead of letting devs know what they want buy withholding thier money. I knew is was very single-player rpg design, not my thing, didn't buy.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Originally posted by troublmaker

    When they announced that it was going to be an MMO.  I love how people are going like OMFG TERA IS SO AWESOME ZOMG.  These were the same people who were probably saying AION IS SO AWESOME OMFG.  First hour of any game is always going to be awesome, because it is them most tested and everyone will have played it.  After you get past the early stuff you will hit the bugs guaranteed.

    SWTOR isn't seriously flawed it is just flawed.  There is nothing serious about their flaws.  It's not like their flaws prevent you from doing anything.

     

    Actually, yes.   The stories are so bad and trite they're an impediment to the game.   I got negative enjoyment from them.   I've been happier playing Korean grind-fests than listening to any of my 8-characters/8-stories.

     

    Sith -- Plastic evil.  Generic, boring evil.  And you get light-side points for killing people in some quests...   When the option is kill them quick or kill them slow...  

    Jedi -- Plastic good.  Consular story is so self-effacing sappy I grew to hate my character.   She made me want to puke.

    Smuggler --  MacGuffins galore and you're helping a freakin' PRINCESS who is your romance option?  ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

    IA -- WWII movie Gestapo clone...

    BH -- Jag-off punk with virtually no quality role-play opportunities as you're forced to play that story on rails.  (And believe me, I really wanted to enjoy that story...   Had a character and a backstory all worked out, couldn't make it fit even a little bit...)

    Trooper --  I'm ordered to commit one war crime an area and I'm the good guy?   Never mind the implausible story-line, why can't I turn in that genocidel maniac Garza for her constantly telling me to kill civilians?     She's a loose screw if I've seen one...

  • TheonenoniTheonenoni Lexington, VAPosts: 279Member

    The first signal was before I even played the game. That signal was that it was made by BioWare. I knew that I was going to run into some painstakingly long  dialogue that I had to click to make choices with. It felt like Mass Effect with a different name.  The only reason why I think Mass Effect got any praise was because the dialogue system was something new. Now it is just boring and long. Some people like to skip stuff and get to the nitty grit of battle. 

    Lobbies probably killed this game. Not to mention that  BioWare doesnt care what the customer thinks. Im sure BioWare is just a bunch of corporate businessmen sitting at a huge table discussing how they copy parts of other MMOs and replicate their past games into one crappy SWTOR.   BioWare churns out half-done games and they try to make up for it in voice acting bits.  A video game is supposed to be a video game............ not a movie. 

    IMO I dont understand why Star Wars is the bees knees.  It is the simplest concept of good vs evil. Back then it was probably popular because it was American and it had special effects not normally seen.   

    -I am here to perform logic

  • Matticus75Matticus75 Posts: 396Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by noncley

    For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.

    What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?

    The Hero Engine: Why did Bioware not make their own engine, Alot of high end games such as Skyrim, and even Battlefield 3 are not MMOs and do not charge a monthy sub

    2 Factions only

    The number of classes

    The amount of content overall

     

     

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    Nothing huge for me, I'm still very much enjoying the game. Btw it's weird there's no sitting since I thought it was in the game at some point, then there was a lot of chairs in your ship that you could sit on, and then the sitting ability disappeared, there's something weird going on with the sitting in chairs :)

     

    My biggest problem propably is that you have to go through the planets in well introduced order, it would be nice there were at least 2 different planets at any time you could choose to level on, that would ofcourse mean that you'd have to have duplicate personal story areas in both planets to advance your story, which for me at least would be a non issue. I just want to have some variety on alts, that's all, I get some by bonus series etc at the moment but I'd hope there was a bit more.

     

    Another thing is, no customizable AI on companions, they are annoying as hell sometimes in combat. Why cant I customize them like in DA for example? Set conditions for them to do things at certain situations. I dont want my companion to start casting a 2 second nuke on one remaining mob that has 1% health, I'd like to be able to set condition on my companion "If enemy health <25% use instant casts, if enemy health >25% use cast time abilites" or something along those lines like in DA. Also, why does initiating combat make most of companions to root in place like statues, they wont even come to heal me around the corner hehe, there's some work for the devs sure :)

     

    Then the thing that I've grown to dislike in almost any RPG these days. Hard character levels. I dont like to see leveling in these games that turns my char into a demigod compared to what he was 10 levels ago, it makes the lower level places completely useless for higher level characters and makes world pvp crap when level differences are big. I wish game companies would start using soft levels a lot more, levels that advance your character in many ways but not give you health and stats to make you outlevel areas and players. Leveling is fun, just make it so that you get new abilities and talent points but no hard levels that increase your character's power passively like HP and stats, thank you.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Originally posted by Thane

    just curious, all you flamers and whiners. is there actually an MMO you like? or are there just games you troll?

    The favorite game to play is the Forum game.

    As for the topic, I didn't find any serious flaws but then I knew exactly what the game was going to be like before I bought it. A little research and common sense will go a long ways.

  • KruulKruul Houston, TXPosts: 476Member

    The only thing that needs some work is open world PVP. The rest is spot on and by far the best themepark out there.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    As soon as they said it was an MMO, I knew it would be a flawed multi million dollar game.  MMOs have a 100% chance of being flawed when they come out.

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  • leojreimrocleojreimroc Toronto, ONPosts: 371Member

    It feels like there are multi-multi millions of these threads.....

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Kruul

    The only thing that needs some work is open world PVP. The rest is spot on and by far the best themepark out there.

    what makes this the best themepark out there? because it has a decent srpg story?  I found it a horrible game if you look at it in a mmo themepark aspect.. the good parts are single player stuff aside from a couple of the flaspoints

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    Originally posted by troublmaker

    When they announced that it was going to be an MMO.  I love how people are going like OMFG TERA IS SO AWESOME ZOMG.  These were the same people who were probably saying AION IS SO AWESOME OMFG.  First hour of any game is always going to be awesome, because it is them most tested and everyone will have played it.  After you get past the early stuff you will hit the bugs guaranteed.

    SWTOR isn't seriously flawed it is just flawed.  There is nothing serious about their flaws.  It's not like their flaws prevent you from doing anything.

     

    Actually, yes.   The stories are so bad and trite they're an impediment to the game.   I got negative enjoyment from them.   I've been happier playing Korean grind-fests than listening to any of my 8-characters/8-stories.

     

    Sith -- Plastic evil.  Generic, boring evil.  And you get light-side points for killing people in some quests...   When the option is kill them quick or kill them slow...  

    Jedi -- Plastic good.  Consular story is so self-effacing sappy I grew to hate my character.   She made me want to puke.

    Smuggler --  MacGuffins galore and you're helping a freakin' PRINCESS who is your romance option?  ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

    IA -- WWII movie Gestapo clone...

    BH -- Jag-off punk with virtually no quality role-play opportunities as you're forced to play that story on rails.  (And believe me, I really wanted to enjoy that story...   Had a character and a backstory all worked out, couldn't make it fit even a little bit...)

    Trooper --  I'm ordered to commit one war crime an area and I'm the good guy?   Never mind the implausible story-line, why can't I turn in that genocidel maniac Garza for her constantly telling me to kill civilians?     She's a loose screw if I've seen one...

     

    I see only one huge problem here, you taking the game WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. If you hate the storylines so much, and enjoy even grindind games more, then GRIND! Get off the starter planet and grind till you hit max level, no one is forcing you to do the stories :D

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    Originally posted by troublmaker

    When they announced that it was going to be an MMO.  I love how people are going like OMFG TERA IS SO AWESOME ZOMG.  These were the same people who were probably saying AION IS SO AWESOME OMFG.  First hour of any game is always going to be awesome, because it is them most tested and everyone will have played it.  After you get past the early stuff you will hit the bugs guaranteed.

    SWTOR isn't seriously flawed it is just flawed.  There is nothing serious about their flaws.  It's not like their flaws prevent you from doing anything.

     

    Actually, yes.   The stories are so bad and trite they're an impediment to the game.   I got negative enjoyment from them.   I've been happier playing Korean grind-fests than listening to any of my 8-characters/8-stories.

     

    Sith -- Plastic evil.  Generic, boring evil.  And you get light-side points for killing people in some quests...   When the option is kill them quick or kill them slow...  

    Jedi -- Plastic good.  Consular story is so self-effacing sappy I grew to hate my character.   She made me want to puke.

    Smuggler --  MacGuffins galore and you're helping a freakin' PRINCESS who is your romance option?  ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

    IA -- WWII movie Gestapo clone...

    BH -- Jag-off punk with virtually no quality role-play opportunities as you're forced to play that story on rails.  (And believe me, I really wanted to enjoy that story...   Had a character and a backstory all worked out, couldn't make it fit even a little bit...)

    Trooper --  I'm ordered to commit one war crime an area and I'm the good guy?   Never mind the implausible story-line, why can't I turn in that genocidel maniac Garza for her constantly telling me to kill civilians?     She's a loose screw if I've seen one...

    this

    Jedi consular are so naive and positive that makes me go dark side if it was not so douche-ish

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • GazoleoGazoleo Vila RealPosts: 6Member Uncommon

    For me the POS Hero Engine...

  • Fenrir767Fenrir767 Waitsfield, VTPosts: 595Member

    [quote] [i]Originally posted by MosesZD[/i] [quote] [i]Originally posted by Thane[/i] [quote] [b][i]Originally posted by Matt_UK[/i] [/b] [quote] [i]Originally posted by Thane[/i] [b]just curious, all you flamers and whiners. is there actually an MMO you like? or are there just games you troll?[/b][/quote] [b][b][b] [/b][/b][/b] [b][b][b]Idiot.[/b][/b][/b] [/quote] [b][b] [/b][/b] [b][b]thx for making it so clear mr troll :)[/b][/b][/quote] [b]lol.   Look in the mirror troll boy...    You should be playing the game or hanging out with your BioDrone friends on the BioDrone forum...   Not coming here and insulting people because they find this game to suck...[/b] Here's a clue about the failing game you're trolling people about:   Last week, BioWare lowered the threshold of players needed to get OUT of light.   Because 60% of their servers were STUCK IN PERMENANT LIGHT STATUS and just 8% (all EGA servers) ever got to heavy. So they changed the cut-offs...    In one day they magically went to 30% heavy from 8% heavy and perma-light dropped to 20%... Yet they're still dropping...  And the game they weren't advertising is being advertised EVERYWHERE in a desperate attempt to get people...   And despite that SALES KEEP DROPPING! [b] [/b] [b]So go stick that in your jumper and troll somewhere else.   The game is Warhammer Online all over again...[/b] [b] [/b] [b] [/b] [/quote]  

    And where is your proof for this. i dont see anything other thah generalizations with no facts, no linksnand broad ranging assumptions from someone that is not playing the game. This sounds and looks like a troll post to me

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    [Mod Edit]

     

     

    Where does this information come from about the server status change? A link would be nice because loads of servers were still registering heavy at primetime last week.

    As for sales dropping, well yeah, obviously they will drop shortly after release, thats the same for pretty much every game ever made.

    Warhammer never had anything like the number of players TOR has and every single new release mmorpg has an initial peak of players which in every case drops after the first two months, thats just the way mmorpgs work these days.

     

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Zinzan

     

    Where does this information come from about the server status change? A link would be nice because loads of servers were still registering heavy at primetime last week.

    As for sales dropping, well yeah, obviously they will drop shortly after release, thats the same for pretty much every game ever made.

    Warhammer never had anything like the number of players TOR has and every single new release mmorpg has an initial peak of players which in every case drops after the first two months, thats just the way mmorpgs work these days.

     

    here most likely http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

    you can highlight the little graph on the bottom and go from launch to now..

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    The non adjustable UI, the lack of graphics,the extreme linearity..
  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Honestly, the first signalr for me was even before I played the game. I  saw some of the design videos to try and get a better understanding of the game they wanted to make.

    Just listening to what they were planning for the game raised a lot of doubts in my mind as to how well the game would actually be made. It was playing a demo of the game that confirmed it.

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member

    Originally posted by xDayx

    Not sure why you guys are so surprised. There hasnt been a good themepark since Vanguard and maybe Vanilla wow(and even that is a stretch). EQ1 pre-Luclin was truly the last good themepark, I think because they had no quests.

    Quests have ruined themeparks.

     

    -and even VG had trouble getting on its feet.

     

    Argh!  I could not agree with this more.  First time I've seen someone post how I feel.  EQ1 was amazing, awesome, until Shadows of Luclin (SoL  .. lol).  Then the Nexus was bad enough, then PoK .. It truly went downhill from Luclin on.  Can't believe how long I stayed though, loyal to my evercrack.  Anyway, EQ1 with only Kunark and Velious expansion was the best. 

    Could I go back to it now (if I could, in that fashion)?  Sure, for a while it would be killer fun.  But I have a feeling it would lose it's charm after all these years playing the next-gen MMOs.  *shrug*

     

    The poor start of VG is a tragedy.  I still maintain, imho, that Vanguard is one of the most amazing MMORPGs made, and has/had the most potential.  It's an explorer's dream.  More land-mass with no expansions than many (most?) other MMOs.   Anyway.. It's a damn tragedy how that all played out.

     

     

    Playing: H1Z1, The Crew, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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  • NixlNixl Ctown, VAPosts: 67Member

    I would say mid-beta when the story spoilers released, especially regarding Revan and the Exile. I felt the entire series became trivilaized in order to make room for the endless boss-to-grind lineup.  Learning about the class stories also did not make me feel any more confident.  All the stories just appeared weak and uncompelling.  Virtually no dedicated rivals, no mentors like Kreia, no mysteries (hell, even a cliche like amnesia would do), and the choices are just plastic good for the sake of good or evil for the sake of evil.  You are just some cool guy/gal that goes from point A and kill X to point B rinse repeat.  There is no real jounrey in my opinion.  After replaying Planescape Torment, Kotor 2, and Fallout 2 recently, I was kind of annoyed by how dumbed down they made the Kotor story. 

    Overall, TOR is Bioware's weakest RPG in my opinion.  I use to make fun of Bioware for reusing the same model of "you are some guy thrust into the middle of a conflict of global/galatic significnace, you must stop the villain from using an artifact, at one point you visit ancient ruins of a lost civilization, and there is one twist."  TOR does not even use that model and it shows.  Bioware needs to go back to that formula, because TOR made no sense to me. 

    I played Sith Warrior during the weekend beta and it only added to my concerns.  Gameplay-wise I did not get the same fresh feeling when I played Vanilla WoW, Aion, or AoC.  For an MMO it is too cut and dry and I feel that it did not do enough to make itself a separate game. 

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