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Blizzard lied about the Sub lost?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

Did Blizzard lie about the sub lost in the east, and instead had a major lost in the west?

seem like Blizzard is doing well in the east. So maybe they are just making more money off of the east, making up for the lost subs.

what you think the case is?

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Comments

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    We never have a way of actually knowing, and really in the end it does'nt matter. Personally I have continue to lose respect for Blizzard over the years, to me they are no longer the same company they were when they released games like D2 and WC3 People, however, still greatly enjoy their games and thats fine with me. I never understood the pure need to know exactly how many subscribers a game has, or to look at everything a game company says, as lying. 

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    So....is this thread for speculation? Gut feelings? Hyperbole?

     

    Do you have any reason to suspect the numbers are wrong, or is this "post-count-day"?

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • AisriythAisriyth Tolland, CTPosts: 9Member

    Probably wicked wrong here. But isn't it illegal to hide/misconstrue evidence in an openly traded company to investors?

    Not that it would stop them even if it was.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member

    Originally posted by Xerith

    We never have a way of actually knowing, and really in the end it does'nt matter. Personally I have continue to lose respect for Blizzard over the years, to me they are no longer the same company they were when they released games like D2 and WC3 People, however, still greatly enjoy their games and thats fine with me. I never understood the pure need to know exactly how many subscribers a game has, or to look at everything a game company says, as lying. 

    Ya knowing the EXACT nummbers of subs and wether a game lost a few or gained a few was never that important to me.  However, unfortunately the popularity of an MMO, unlike other type of games, effects their current playerbase and changes teh direction of the development of that game.

    This is totaly unlike console or single player games that dont require constant updating.  This is why major changes in MMO subs wether up or down are worthy of looking at.  A desparate company thats hemmorging subs will make sweeping changes to their game where as a company thats gaining subs will make changes but keep on the same path they are on.

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  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Due to the things i've witnessed in game (ghosttowns n such) to the long history showing how Blizzard really is about how they manipulate the public, and due to information gathered from other press sites, yes they did lie, and these same sites (not this one) shows us that in order to keep the WoW community in the dark about their success, Blizzard rarely releases anything negative about their REAL numbers and always prevents the public from knowing what's ACTUALLY happening. Since they finally did reveal that they indeed lost 1.9 subs mid last year and most recently did reveal (to a single website mind you) that they did lose 100k subs this year so far, I would speculate that they are on the verge of losing many many more for multiple reasons. A: the horrible mismanagement of the content in Cataclysm B: The age of the title C: The model of the game which is "squeeze as much time as possible from the players by putting in dailies that get you nowhere" complete with long drawn out rep grinds. 

    And i can only speculate that due to the annual pass for DIII which they failed to launch on time as promised when they put out that deal, is the only reason why many many subscribers are still subscribing tho not necessarily logging into the game.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member

    Originally posted by Aisriyth

    Probably wicked wrong here. But isn't it illegal to hide/misconstrue evidence in an openly traded company to investors?

    Not that it would stop them even if it was.

    They only need to report financial and legal information when reporting.  Their financials do have to include how much revenue and costs they have but they can hide where both are coming from somewhat.

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    its been speculated that Blizzard is aiming its next expansion at the Eastern subs since they took the major dive over there in subs.

     

    but Blizzard is making more money from the east after the sub lost, than before they lost it.

     

    fishy. How does this all this blend in with the controversy over this eastern focus that people are speculating Blizzard in taking

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  • AisriythAisriyth Tolland, CTPosts: 9Member

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Due to the things i've witnessed in game (ghosttowns n such) to the long history showing how Blizzard really is about how they manipulate the public, and due to information gathered from other press sites, yes they did lie, and these same sites (not this one) shows us that in order to keep the WoW community in the dark about their success, Blizzard rarely releases anything negative about their REAL numbers and always prevents the public from knowing what's ACTUALLY happening. Since they finally did reveal that they indeed lost 1.9 subs mid last year and most recently did reveal (to a single website mind you) that they did lose 100k subs this year so far, I would speculate that they are on the verge of losing many many more for multiple reasons. A: the horrible mismanagement of the content in Cataclysm B: The age of the title C: The model of the game which is "squeeze as much time as possible from the players by putting in dailies that get you nowhere" complete with long drawn out rep grinds. 

    And i can only speculate that due to the annual pass for DIII which they failed to launch on time as promised when they put out that deal, is the only reason why many many subscribers are still subscribing tho not necessarily logging into the game.

    Hold on, wait a second. How did they promise Diablo III to be out by now? I've seen that same argument on another websites forum and it was flat out wrong.

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by Aisriyth

    Probably wicked wrong here. But isn't it illegal to hide/misconstrue evidence in an openly traded company to investors?

    Not that it would stop them even if it was.

    It's illegal to outright lie.

    It's also illegal to warp perception if it can be proven to be done in poor faith.

    But they've basically been saying "It's okay guys, we only lost 100k subs"... which is the sum change of subscribers. They've lost a hell of a lot more than 100k in NA and EU. The growth in CN and BRL are offsetting the massive losses of the "premium" subscriber base.

  • TortanicTortanic Goodsprings, NVPosts: 85Member

    They lost around 900k NA/EU, some where made up by the new region releases, bringing them to a 100k decrease overall.

    Doesn't matter alot though when most of the playerbase (East) pays 15cents an hour.


    Also, it's partially why well over 60% of the servers are ghost towns now.

    They make more money from transfers off - and server mergers are a death knell in MMOLand, so by "ignoring" the problem presented by the fuckton of empty servers they get transfers and stave off some of the bleeding subscriptions, as said death knell merger would cause more to leave in disinterest or an unwillingness to play a game they perceive as "dying."

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    They never said "NA and EU subscriber are fine and we lost only 1% of them". They never lied. Many here just made and still make assumptions.

    Even if it may sound unbelieveable for the player facing the drop on Western server the report is simply just PR spin but not a lie.  The PR effect relies on the common assumptions and habit to project positive report on ourself even when not neccesarily related to us, with ourself in the center and root of everthing we consider as positive.

    If you are a deluded fan in NA then every positive or satisfying means NA was part or the reason for this positive trend, if the reports a bad then the cause must lie somewhere else, preferable somewhere not many have clear insight into and its hard proof your assumptions objectively wrong.

    Problem is when people start to have doubts because the downhill trend is obvious, especially for those facing less than a handful of people logging on their server and everyone is crying for servermerges. When topics asking for servermerges become regular on official forums and MODs gave up moving every of them to the dead subforums of the OPs realm where no one could stumble over them other than the few player on the dead server them self. When official numbers go up or remain stable, they cant just lightmindedly pretend everthing is fine because they believed those numbers to be indicator of whats going on in their hometurf. They start to realize something is wrong about those numbers.

    Matter of fact is however they (the numbers) are not actually wrong, but how they where percieved until now by many, was wrong and too often plain assumptive. Player here finally start to realize what was said for years since 2008.

    The times when everone blindly thought plain "record playnumbers" mean everything is going fine for "you" seem to be over.

     

    Now lets see where this its going in Q1 without the major Deathwing contentpatch, without Protugese Client release, without any wintermonths boost, with the subscriptions of player permanently lost to SWToR now running out included.

     

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Due to the things i've witnessed in game (ghosttowns n such) to the long history showing how Blizzard really is about how they manipulate the public, and due to information gathered from other press sites, yes they did lie, and these same sites (not this one) shows us that in order to keep the WoW community in the dark about their success, Blizzard rarely releases anything negative about their REAL numbers and always prevents the public from knowing what's ACTUALLY happening. Since they finally did reveal that they indeed lost 1.9 subs mid last year and most recently did reveal (to a single website mind you) that they did lose 100k subs this year so far, I would speculate that they are on the verge of losing many many more for multiple reasons. A: the horrible mismanagement of the content in Cataclysm B: The age of the title C: The model of the game which is "squeeze as much time as possible from the players by putting in dailies that get you nowhere" complete with long drawn out rep grinds. 

    And i can only speculate that due to the annual pass for DIII which they failed to launch on time as promised when they put out that deal, is the only reason why many many subscribers are still subscribing tho not necessarily logging into the game.

    They released the info to a single website? It is on their website for investors. Trust me no investor cares about websites like this or any other MMORPG website. 

     

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    if blizzard is lying then bioware is lying about their sub numbers.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Probably so but they will still be bigger than everyone else. It is still the best mmo on the market as of right now.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    When these guys put out statements, they intentionally make them nebulous and dual meaning just so it can sound better than it really is. Just like EA's doublespeak last week, the same sentence could mean half or double of what it sounded like.

    The only thing they can't disguise is the money, and even that is all creative accounting. As my partner likes to say while sailing on his 52 foot boat often, how he could qualify for food stamps if we need more shrimp.

     

  • nyxiumnyxium Posts: 1,222Member Uncommon

    As a corporation they have to file honest results or get in big legal trouble with the regulators and tax people. Not advisable for any company, yet alone one the size of ActBlizz that can be torn to shreds by the taxman, I strongly doubt the figures are inaccurate or untrue.

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  • HoplitesHoplites SpartaPosts: 463Member

    Originally posted by Bunks

    When these guys put out statements, they intentionally make them nebulous and dual meaning just so it can sound better than it really is. Just like EA's doublespeak last week, the same sentence could mean half or double of what it sounded like.

    The only thing they can't disguise is the money, and even that is all creative accounting. As my partner likes to say while sailing on his 52 foot boat often, how he could qualify for food stamps if we need more shrimp.

     

    Haha so true. image

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    I'm sure sueing Valve hasn't helped their subs any.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    i just don't believe that wow has 11 million active subscriptions...that to me is an outright lie.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    i just don't believe that wow has 11 million active subscriptions...that to me is an outright lie.

    I may be mistaken, but I believe they are allowed to include active free trials in those numbers as well.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    i just don't believe that wow has 11 million active subscriptions...that to me is an outright lie.

    I may be mistaken, but I believe they are allowed to include active free trials in those numbers as well.

    Yes but they word it to sound like 11 million subscriptions.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    i just don't believe that wow has 11 million active subscriptions...that to me is an outright lie.

    I may be mistaken, but I believe they are allowed to include active free trials in those numbers as well.

    Blizzard doesn't include free trials in their figures.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

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  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,210Member Uncommon

    Blizzard didn't only lied about lost subs, they lied about their numbers from ever since.

    All these 15cent 1 hour internet-cafe accounts in China that no one needs to cancel. And since no one cancels them, they technically never expire. Therefore they are being counted as "active subs", while they aren't exactly that.

     

    And oh, in before "no, public company must no lie!!". I wonder when folks get that they are being lied to about way bigger things on a daily basis.

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  • derpmeisterderpmeister Why is this necessary?Posts: 2Member

    What blizzard (and other companies for that matter) count as a subscriber is so vague and loose that it's pretty much pointless to debate these numbers. Every company has  their own definition of what a 'subscriber' is, this is how blizzard defines a subscriber:

     


    World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition


    World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

     

    Source: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2443926

    I don't doubt that between the western subscription based mmo's WoW is most likely the most popular and subscribed one, however I don't think that the number of actual people playing WoW is anywhere near 10 million, probably closer to 6 million which would still be quite an impressive number.

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member

    Originally posted by Xerith

    We never have a way of actually knowing, and really in the end it does'nt matter. Personally I have continue to lose respect for Blizzard over the years, to me they are no longer the same company they were when they released games like D2 and WC3 People, however, still greatly enjoy their games and thats fine with me. I never understood the pure need to know exactly how many subscribers a game has, or to look at everything a game company says, as lying. 

    It's simple, a lot of people on this site want Blizzard to lose all their subscibers. The fact it isn't happening as fast as their many predictions is obviously distressing to them. Strange obsession. If people still play and enjoy a game who cares. After I leave a game I don't wish it's demise (yes even WoW)

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