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DOTA2: Blizzard Suing Valve Over Trademark

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  • IceAgeIceAge SomeWhere In ..Posts: 1,013Member Common

    Originally posted by Newfr

    As far as i know Blizzard did exactly nothing about helping IceFrog or DotA community. And they were asked about it. Constantly. Like "why we have to share out money this some guys?" So now their claims that they care about community and game looks pathetic to me. Why the hell you care just now when big moneys involved? No, i'll never belive in that after they became super greedy Blizzard/Activision with that Kotick guy in charge.



    While Valve hire successful mod-makers and publish their games. That happened with Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat. And they going to publish DotA 2 now. And for that i respect Valve. They give to mod-makers what they rightfully deserve. And about Team Fortress. That was a very popular Quake mod at first, but Valve hired mod devs and made Team Fortress Classic. And ID software wasn't like "it's been used exclusively by ID and its fan community so you can't use Team Fortress name".

    So I hope Valve will win this one.


     

    Yes, they never care! They never care to provide to IceFrog every tools he need. They never care to promote DOTA ! They never care to hold and promote championship's of DOTA! They never care to fund championship's ( and because of this, IceFrog won some big money ) ! They never care to re-configure their servers to hold more players to battle in DOTA over battle.net ! They never care about VALVE DOTA, when they announced it. They never care about the community now, when they are fighting to keep the DOTA name free of use.

    Right..

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    That seems a bit odd, while dota was a mod it wasn´t really made by Blizzard.

    They could possibly sue because the game more or less look like WC3 though but if you can sue for that we would see plenty of MMOs in trouble.

    Meh, I never got this American idea hat you should sue people for as many things as possible (like spilling hot coffee in your own lap and crap), I hope Blizzard loses this one.

    DOTA was a wonderfully made mod and the right to the name and mod specific things should be to Eul and  Guinsoo.

    I would agree with this argument more if they were suing for money.  They basically just don't want the name DOTA trademarked.  My guess is that they are just doing this to make sure they can market their own DOTA product with DOTA in the name without paying valve royalties.  They aren't saying that valve can't use the name DOTA they are simply saying that they shouldn't be allowed to trademark that name.  This really isn't that big of a deal, and it happens in the movie business quite a bit over movie titles that are too similar to one another.  The one that pops up in my head is from the late 90s when the movie Scream was released after a movie called Screamers had been released, and the makers of Screamers tried to keep Scream from being released because of the similar name.  Blizzard isn't even going that far they just don't want it trademarked.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Don't really see what a big deal this is, especially on this site over FPS game at that.  Problem with trademarks, they far too easy to get and way too expensive to fight.  I know one company was trying to sue anyone using "Scrolls" in their game name when it is obvious the legality of such is extremely weak.   

    As to DOTA, they obviously did not do their homework when they named the game.  Really stupid if you ask me when it is so easy to search for such on the net.  Really does not matter if Blizzard has a right to the trademark or not,  The name was already taken.

    Blizzard doesn't own the trademark on the name, nobody does.  That is what they are trying to prevent.  They don't seem to care if Valve uses DOTA in their title, but they don't want them to trademark it so that nobody else can use it either.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by nilden

    Originally posted by expresso

    If Valve win no one can use the term DOTA in their game without the risk of getting sued by Valve.

    If Blizzard win the term DOTA is free for any one to use in any context.

    Who are the bad guys?

    Wait so if Blizzard wins Valve can just call it DOTA 2 anyway since you said free for anyone to use in any context.

    Or maybe Blizzard is saying they have the rights to DOTA trademark.

    Seriously clue in people.

    If you read it, Blizzard is not claiming that they have a traidmark.  They are not claiming that Valve can't use the name DOTA.  They are saying that they don't want Valve to be able to trademark the name DOTA.  If valve succeeds then nobody else could use the name DOTA without getting agreement from Valve.  This is what Blizzard is trying to prevent.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    Fun fact, DOTA is and never has been the IP of Blizzard. If anyone has the right to sue it'd Eul, I remember he was generally upset about Guinsoo stealing the map, though not so much at Icefrog, as Icefrog added the much needed balance, polish, and optimization.

     

    Though AoS was way before the time of DotA and similar in concept, I'd still say that DotA earned its right to be unique through its structural complexity in comparison to Aeon of Strife.

     

    All in all, seems like another scrolls BS stunt by Blizzard's legal team. At least I'd hope so, can't fathom thought of someone with intellectual capacity thinking that this was a good idea. Unless said person's take on a good idea was too open all the port holes to let more water in.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by wormywyrm

    I feel strongly that Blizzard is in the right to do this.  When players create maps using blizzards program and use blizzards bnet service to send them to other players and blizzards service to play with them for years and years on end under a EULA that clearly gives rights of user-created content to blizzard then blizzard should have exclusive rights to that content...  ESPECIALLY bad if another company tries to copyright the name that blizzard has been authorizing for years now on its services.  Thats just too far.  I think blizzard would have had a case to stop a rip off of its game (DOTA) from being released entirely, and at the least to stop someone from copyrighting the name.










     

    Every game then would be owned by the makers of Oracle, Delphi, C++, DOS then...that doesn't make sense to me.


     


    Next, Blizzard is going to sue Heroes of Newerth, League of Legends, and the million other MOBA games out there, since they're all basically the same game.

  • TimacekTimacek YlinPosts: 180Member

    Originally posted by Lambon

    Blizzard is the bad guy here.

    DOTA is Icefrogs adopted baby. He has been working very hard on it for MANY years.

    Eul and Guinso left it in his hands and he has been doing an amazing job ever since. Valve is offering this man an opportunity to make money from all the hard work he has done, but Blizzard being the asinine greedlocks they are; continue to embarass themselves and the gaming industry as a whole. I can only wish that people see this company under the monopolizing shadow they cast. 




     

     

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    wow so many morons here.

    don't even bother trying to explain it people.   these posters hate blizzard so much they want to see everything they do as evil.

    screw valve for trying to take a name that should stay free to the gaming community, i'll be boycotting all their products if they win this.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by Timacek



    Originally posted by Lambon



    Blizzard is the bad guy here.





    DOTA is Icefrogs adopted baby. He has been working very hard on it for MANY years.





    Eul and Guinso left it in his hands and he has been doing an amazing job ever since. Valve is offering this man an opportunity to make money from all the hard work he has done, but Blizzard being the asinine greedlocks they are; continue to embarass themselves and the gaming industry as a whole. I can only wish that people see this company under the monopolizing shadow they cast. 










     

     

    This doesn't make any sense, since Blizzard isn't trying to trademark the name themselves.  They are simply trying to stop Valve from doing so.  If valve gets to trademark DOTA then nobody else can use it, thus monopolizing it.  They aren't even trying to stop valve from using the name themselves, they are simply trying to stop them from trademarking the name, which would prevent others, including Blizzard from being able to use the name.  

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Timacek



    Originally posted by Lambon



    Blizzard is the bad guy here.

    DOTA is Icefrogs adopted baby. He has been working very hard on it for MANY years.

    Eul and Guinso left it in his hands and he has been doing an amazing job ever since. Valve is offering this man an opportunity to make money from all the hard work he has done, but Blizzard being the asinine greedlocks they are; continue to embarass themselves and the gaming industry as a whole. I can only wish that people see this company under the monopolizing shadow they cast. 

     

     

    You just don't get it, do you?  All Blizzard is doing is saying it is not trademarkable, at least not by Valve. The only bad guy here is Valve trying to trademark something they have NO right to.

  • HycooHycoo OsloPosts: 217Member

    I understand Valve for wanting to trademark Dota. Here you have this game thats been developed by some freetime modder the last years. Anyone can decide to invest in the game and support it the way it deserves. Blizzard had so many years to do this, the community really wanted them to do it, but they never supported it. Instead Valve decides to invest in the game, using resources to build it up from a small community to giving it to the world under a whole new engine and team (lead by Icefrog) behind it. For instance having a 1 000 000 Euro price for first price in a Dota 2 tournament last august while it was in early beta just to showcase it (which was the biggest pricemoney in a e-sport tour ever at the time).

    Now sponsors are flocking in on the game with money (founding Dota teams and tournaments), something that wasnt possible before Valve invested in the title. It has basicly given Dota a new start and the name is worth so much now because of Valve. If i was Valve i wouldn't want anyone to come by later and use the name DOTA to profit, when it doesnt have anything to do with Dota in the first place.


     

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  • RainBringerRainBringer AucklandPosts: 150Member

    There are just too many tools in this thread who are running their mouth without knowing anything even remotely close to what Blizzard are planning here, some even speaking on the company's behalf like self entitled PR pricks. What are the odds many here dont even know what DotA stands for or have even seen the game map leave alone play it, but are commenting on it like they know every last detail down to the legality of the matter regarding trademark infringement?

     

    Here is a simple example for all those simple minded people:

    Think about the children's book series, Harry Potter. After its release, there has been a whole array of fanfiction centered on that storybook setting, even some fiction that do not use any of the notable JK Rowling characters and some that do not use any chracters or trademarked terms from the original stories at all.

    Now in case someone wrote a fanfiction called "101-ways to cook chicken" using the storybook's setting but without using Any characters, terms, trademarked names, etc and then went on to publish Another book called "102-ways to cook chicken" BASED on the popularity of the previous fanfiction using a whole new setting, lore and characters that had nothing to do with Harry potter series. 

    So now do you think JW Rowling has the rights to sue this guy for "stealing" something he created using a storyline that was involved with her books at one point but who's final content is nothing similar to the books she wrote? Think and think again before answering. The guy who wrote the fanfiction here is IceFrog, the new publishers for his book are Valve and the JK Rowling who is trying to monopolize anything that it can touch is Blizzard here.

     

    The fact is DotA was never a RTS game that War3 was, the game that Blizzard created or intended to make and own. It never had any features that is associated with any RTS game, ie army control, resources generation and management, kill objectives or quest plots, etc. The only thing that even remotely attaches it to War3 is that DotA was a whole new kind of game made using that editor, something that Blizzard played absolutely NO role in. Now they want to claim this title for "Themselves" because they will sooner or later publish a Blizzard-Dota and trademark that name for themselves and the momentum it will gather among gamers with that name alone. Anyone who think Blizzard will not monopolize the DotA trademark is either lying to themselves or are fools. They are the good guys here? That joke isnt even remotely funny, they just want to make money even if its at IceFrog's, Eul's or Valve's expense (not Guinsoo because he played the wise businessman card and made his own game from the DotA concept to earn him those dollars that Blizzard cant get its grubby paws on. ie LoL).

     

    So whats next, Blizzard is going to trademark all the popular War3 usermade maps? LOAP,  arena champions, The black road, 3-corris, Defiance, Resident evil themed survival maps, Vampirism and everything else? Maybe not yet since it wont get them enough money, but when it gets popular enough they might just claim it to be their own creation, name and all.

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  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by RainBringer

    There are just too many tools in this thread who are running their mouth without knowing anything even remotely close to what Blizzard are planning here, some even speaking on the company's behalf like self entitled PR pricks. What are the odds many here dont even know what DotA stands for or have even seen the game map leave alone play it, but are commenting on it like they know every last detail down to the legality of the matter regarding trademark infringement?

     

    Here is a simple example for all those simple minded people:

    Think about the children's book series, Harry Potter. After its release, there has been a whole array of fanfiction centered on that storybook setting, even some fiction that do not use any of the notable JK Rowling characters and some that do not use any chracters or trademarked terms from the original stories at all.

    Now in case someone wrote a fanfiction called "101-ways to cook chicken" using the storybook's setting but without using Any characters, terms, trademarked names, etc and then went on to publish Another book called "102-ways to cook chicken" BASED on the popularity of the previous fanfiction using a whole new setting, lore and characters that had nothing to do with Harry potter series. 

    So now do you think JW Rowling has the rights to sue this guy for "stealing" something he created using a storyline that was involved with her books at one point but who's final content is nothing similar to the books she wrote? Think and think again before answering. The guy who wrote the fanfiction here is IceFrog, the new publishers for his book are Valve and the JK Rowling who is trying to monopolize anything that it can touch is Blizzard here.

     

    The fact is DotA was never a RTS game that War3 was, the game that Blizzard created or intended to make and own. It never had any features that is associated with any RTS game, ie army control, resources generation and management, kill objectives or quest plots, etc. The only thing that even remotely attaches it to War3 is that DotA was a whole new kind of game made using that editor, something that Blizzard played absolutely NO role in. Now they want to claim this title for "Themselves" because they will sooner or later publish a Blizzard-Dota and trademark that name for themselves and the momentum it will gather among gamers with that name alone. Anyone who think Blizzard will not monopolize the DotA trademark is either lying to themselves or are fools. They are the good guys here? That joke isnt even remotely funny, they just want to make money even if its at IceFrog's, Eul's or Valve's expense (not Guinsoo because he played the wise businessman card and made his own game from the DotA concept to earn him those dollars that Blizzard cant get its grubby paws on. ie LoL).

     

    So whats next, Blizzard is going to trademark all the popular War3 usermade maps? LOAP,  arena champions, The black road, 3-corris, Defiance, Resident evil themed survival maps, Vampirism and everything else? Maybe not yet since it wont get them enough money, but when it gets popular enough they might just claim it to be their own creation, name and all.

    Don't accuse people of being tools, and then turn around and show that you don't understand what is actually going on.  Blizzard is not trying to trademark anything.  They are trying to keep valve from trademarking DOTA.  If valve successfully trademarks DOTA then nobody else will be able to use DOTA in their title.  Once again, Blizzard isn't trying to trademark DOTA if they wanted to do that, they could have done it 8 years ago, but they chose not to.  Now Valve wants to trademark DOTA and Blizzard is trying to stop them.

  • illorionillorion Beckley, WVPosts: 467Member

    Blizzard snoozed when It came to copywriting the Name DOTA. Now Valve wants to use it for a game and Blizz is all up in arms about it... I say tough titty.

    Blizz has no write to claim copywrite for the term DOTA. At one it point.. yes it was a mod for Warcraft 3. But now it simply refers to a genre of game. League of legends is a DOTA game. 

    The is the same thing that happened when team fortress came out.. it was a great mod... however, instead of waiting 7 years to try to claim a copywrite valve copywrited the name right off the bat and made thier own updated version.

    So Blizz need to STFU, they waited to long to say anything... now they should just sit their and accept the lesson... 

    "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by illorion

    Blizzard snoozed when It came to copywriting the Name DOTA. Now Valve wants to use it for a game and Blizz is all up in arms about it... I say tough titty.

    Blizz has no write to claim copywrite for the term DOTA. At one it point.. yes it was a mod for Warcraft 3. But now it simply refers to a genre of game. League of legends is a DOTA game. 

    The is the same thing that happened when team fortress came out.. it was a great mod... however, instead of waiting 7 years to try to claim a copywrite valve copywrited the name right off the bat and made thier own updated version.

    So Blizz need to STFU, they waited to long to say anything... now they should just sit their and accept the lesson... 

    They are not claiming copyrite, they don't want anyone to copyrite it.

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    Originally posted by illorion

    Blizzard snoozed when It came to copywriting the Name DOTA. Now Valve wants to use it for a game and Blizz is all up in arms about it... I say tough titty.

    Blizz has no write to claim copywrite for the term DOTA. At one it point.. yes it was a mod for Warcraft 3. But now it simply refers to a genre of game. League of legends is a DOTA game. 

    The is the same thing that happened when team fortress came out.. it was a great mod... however, instead of waiting 7 years to try to claim a copywrite valve copywrited the name right off the bat and made thier own updated version.

    So Blizz need to STFU, they waited to long to say anything... now they should just sit their and accept the lesson... 

    why would blizz need to stfu, they want the DOTA name to be free for the mod community to use.  valve wants to be greedy and take it away.  valve does not need to screw the mod community over by taking it away from those that created it, yes they have that one guy working for them but there were plenty of others helping make DOTA possible and they want it to stay open for everyone, too bad that guy that went to work for valve became greedy.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • HycooHycoo OsloPosts: 217Member



    Originally posted by Scalebane




    Originally posted by illoriontheir and accept the lesson... 

    why would blizz need to stfu, they want the DOTA name to be free for the mod community to use.  valve wants to be greedy and take it away.  valve does not need to screw the mod community over by taking it away from those that created it, yes they have that one guy working for them but there were plenty of others helping make DOTA possible and they want it to stay open for everyone, too bad that guy that went to work for valve became greedy.






     

    You obviously dont know the dota community. Valve decided to help the dota/mod community to develope dota into a standalone game. Now Valve is the mod community. You won't see any other Dota game come out, that is Dota. You can call it Dota (like Blizzard calling it's game Dota), but it doesnt have anything to do with the original Dota, it's modders or community to do. (Except for being a moba like Dota is).



     

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  • OtomoxOtomox HoooooPosts: 303Member

    Gabe lets go smash them back in the right place.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    Bottom Line: Valve should have known better.

    Lesson learned.

  • albersalbers BiržaiPosts: 181Member Uncommon

    Valve should sue Blizzard bec ause they are using DOTA in its map... lol Blizzard is fkn greedy... get over it wow makers we are tired of your shit

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  • DeadlyneDeadlyne Rochester, NYPosts: 231Member Uncommon

    So funny people talking about Blizzard being greedy.  This isnt a suit for monetary action.  Blizzard is not suing Valve for money, a portion of their company, or even to trademark the name DoTA themselves.  If Blizzard wins the only thing that happens is that Valve doesnt get to have the name on trademark.  No money exchanges hands.  Its obvious that the name has meaning to the modder community and to Blizzard as well, but neither of them own it.  Now Valve is trying to take over the name and capitalize on it, for their own monetary benefit.  

    Is it really that difficult to think of a name for your game without trying to take advantage of others work?

    Would the game play any differently or ruin your enjoyment of it if the name isn't trademarked?

    If anyone is being greedy it is obviously Valve.

    Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.

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  • HycooHycoo OsloPosts: 217Member

    Just so everybody knows, DotA was developed and popularized by three main guys.



    Eul originally created and developed DotA. When the WCIII:Frozen Throne came out Eul abandoned DotA and a bunch of fans took it upon themselves to develop the map with the new tools in the expansion. While at this point there were many independent developers, one rose above the rest: Guinsoo.



    Guinsoo's version, DotA: Allstars became the most popular format of the map by far and helped propel DotA to new levels of fame. Guinsoo did a lot of work expanding the game and organizing the community of DotA players which up until then had basically just been "the first 9 guys to join my custom game."



    Guinsoo eventually stopped developing DotA: Allstars and directly handed the map off to Icefrog, the most recent developer. Icefrog did a bunch of work on his own and continued to foster the DotA community until 2009 when he quit. A year afterward the community's biggest gathering point, dota-allstars.com, shut down permanently. While people still play DotA, Icefrog's departure was essentially the death knell of the game.



    These three: Eul, Guinsoo, and Icefrog were *THE* developers of DotA as it is today. Where are they now? Eul and Icefrog both work for Valve, and Guinsoo founded Riot games to create the super successful League of Legends based on the DotA formula. Unless Guinsoo doesn't want them to use the name DotA I think Eul and Icefrog have every right to use it now that they have a big time publishing deal--especially because EUL IS THE ONE WHO CREATED THE GAME AND NAMED IT DOTA IN THE FIRST PLACE.



    If the question is "Who really owns the name 'DotA'?" I think it's pretty clear: the guys who made it, not the owners of the system they developed it within.

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  • NewfrNewfr MoscowPosts: 130Member

    Originally posted by Deadlyne

    So funny people talking about Blizzard being greedy.  This isnt a suit for monetary action.  Blizzard is not suing Valve for money, a portion of their company, or even to trademark the name DoTA themselves. 

    It's simple. If Valve wins Blizzard will be unable to call their game "Blizzard DOTA". Not that much? Nope. Call it "Blizzard MOBA" for example and a good portion of people will be like "wtf is this?". Look at the Blizzard statements. There is no such words like "we want it to be free" or something. They are only talking that DOTA associated with Blizzard ("DOTA mark has become firmly associated in the mind of consumers with Blizzard"). Why do you think they will allow some modders to use it on other than Blizzard game engines? That will be the same "DOTA mark has become firmly associated in the mind of consumers with Blizzard" sue. Plus i'm almost sure that if they win Blizzard will trademark DotA instantly after that.

    Valve has the right to trademark DotA because it's hired two of three DotA developers. While Blizzard in my opinion just wants to use something that doesn't belong to them. And that commie idea "it belongs to the community" is a BS (all you moneys belong to humanity).

  • NewfrNewfr MoscowPosts: 130Member



    Originally posted by IceAge





    Yes, they never care! They never care to provide to IceFrog every tools he need. They never care to promote DOTA ! They never care to hold and promote championship's of DOTA! They never care to fund championship's ( and because of this, IceFrog won some big money ) ! They never care to re-configure their servers to hold more players to battle in DOTA over battle.net ! They never care about VALVE DOTA, when they announced it. They never care about the community now, when they are fighting to keep the DOTA name free of use.





    Right..










     

    After IceFrog quited DotA development in 2009 any development of DotA stopped. I wonder where were Blizzard? Probably they were just waiting to take it over for free and make that Blizzard DOTA. Because of DotA Blizzard sold lots of WC3 copies. So practically all that small twicks they made was just because they cared about their own game not about DotA devs, who developed it for 6 years (2003-2009) for free. One of the most popurar mod ever. For example Valve hired Counter-Strike devs after just about an year. And CS did for HL exactly the same thing that DotA did for WC3.



     

  • renrinkenrenrinken Downey, CAPosts: 29Member

    To be fair, Eul is given way more credit then he deserves.

    All he really did was remake AoS and it spinoffs into a WC3 verision. He literally only made two version which one was a utter failure. 

    DotA was not made by one person but many different mod creators over the course of its life time. It was created by the community itself.

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