I didn't read the whole thread as its too long, so this may have been said already, but full loot in tab target level based MMO's doesn't work. Theres simply too much of a gap between players and skill alone can't close it. It would simply let high level players gank and loot lower level players.
Also it's not like I'm against full loot in certain games, my to favorite MMO's of all time are MO and DF, it just doesn't work in tab target games with level systems.
I didn't read the whole thread as its too long, so this may have been said already, but full loot in tab target level based MMO's doesn't work. Theres simply too much of a gap between players and skill alone can't close it. It would simply let high level players gank and loot lower level players.
Also it's not like I'm against full loot in certain games, my to favorite MMO's of all time are MO and DF, it just doesn't work in tab target games with level systems.
What the fuck is tab target? WoW style targeting?
Either way theres other games than MO and DF with full loot, Tibia has full loot of sorts, theres blessings to take etc in order to not lose gear, EVE with full loot and "safety" highsec etc.
I could definetely see a full loot system work, but it depends a bit on gear availability which we dont know a lot about, maybe if someone from the korean beta is reading they could respond but lots of games can work well with full loot with just minor changes tbh.
EDIT: Also if you think levels is an issue then lets say theres a protection, no drops if the enemy is 10% lower than your level or such, theres easy workarounds for it anyway.
i wouldnt sign it. For a game to have full loot pvp tacked onto a game which was NOT DESIGNED for full loot....it throws many mechanics out of whack in the game.
The reason why EVE is successful is that from Day 1 the game was designed for it, as well as the economy and crafting, mechanics, dynamics, etc.
If you dont have the above down before introducing a full loot rule set....you are going against alot of things your game is designed for.
You could easily change some things to make it work better ofc and it wouldnt deem it to be hard, yet i think that even with vanilla and full loot rules it could work out as long as it isnt exploitable for something.
EVE works quite well but in many cases the more rules the less free and sandboxy i feels, something most people who enjoy full loot probably wants.
Also, amarr ftw.
it honestly wouldnt. EVE is unique in where almost every single item in game is made by the players, and the economy is based on it. I am not 100% sure how archage handles their items, but i would have to say that all or most would have to be player made with almost no loot drops, or BOEs, or anything of the sort.
i wouldnt sign it. For a game to have full loot pvp tacked onto a game which was NOT DESIGNED for full loot....it throws many mechanics out of whack in the game.
The reason why EVE is successful is that from Day 1 the game was designed for it, as well as the economy and crafting, mechanics, dynamics, etc.
If you dont have the above down before introducing a full loot rule set....you are going against alot of things your game is designed for.
You could easily change some things to make it work better ofc and it wouldnt deem it to be hard, yet i think that even with vanilla and full loot rules it could work out as long as it isnt exploitable for something.
EVE works quite well but in many cases the more rules the less free and sandboxy i feels, something most people who enjoy full loot probably wants.
Also, amarr ftw.
it honestly wouldnt. EVE is unique in where almost every single item in game is made by the players, and the economy is based on it. I am not 100% sure how archage handles their items, but i would have to say that all or most would have to be player made with almost no loot drops, or BOEs, or anything of the sort.
Just because its different from EVE doesnt mean it is impossible to get to work, of course its possible to make a system with full loot based on drops instead of crafting and such. Check tibia, you cant craft anything and it still worked from the early versions to what they have today. See and consider the possibilities instead of claiming it doesnt work. Yet we dont know how the items and crafting will work in AA yet so theres not even any point commenting on it until we have some source id say.
Also i dont need a lecture in how EVE works, ive been playing it for a while and is still playing it. Just currently somewhat inactive because I need a new corp.
a big +1to all you guys reading from post #113 on....for thinking outside the box AND for comprehending the point of the petition. .....and thank you if you signed it.
a little tiny -1 for magisan...
because he didnt get it...just like everyone else who didnt get it in front of post #113
he wanted to make it a debate and share his oppinion why he wont sign it, and in the end...he needed to be explained to by eveyrone else that the purpose of a petition during development of a game is to see those changes made and implemented if possible...REGARDLESS whether there is a good chance this petition will work or not....even though in the end..the only result of signing could very possibly have a positive impact on his game play....just like everyone else has already stated.
The more numbers there are...the better...its kinda like voting
you get idiot leadership....because everyone would rather debate about it...and not actually go vote or do anything useful about it.....go figure.
No simply no. Im a huge fan of sandbox games, open world pvp with meaning, and crafting. We want people to come to AA, not get turned off by it. Even with open pvp its not bad getting killed here and there for some. With the jail system might be fun. But with full loot, you wont get many to look at AA let alone play it. We need more sandbox games in the market, and long as we keep letting everyone think sandbox autmaticaly means open pvp gankfest we wont get more. AA is kind of our one last big hope to turn the tide on themepark wow clones, every game is one and im sick of it.
So i say hell no, promote AA dont try to kill it. pvp is fine, full loot turns so many noses it will only hurt the game in the long run.
agree with this, seen it so many times, besides game devs need to learn from the mistakes of the past not repeat them....
While I agree with the above statements, full loot PvP has hurt every game that claims it as a feature even when limited to one or two servers. Once the majority of western gamers get word of it they will avoid the game. I am amoung those that avoid full loot PvP. I don't mind RP servers, I don't mind PvP servers as long as I can choose to partake or pass. But if there is a chance I can lose everything I have worked so hard to aquire, I will turn down every challange.
Full loot PvP has been used as content by so many games it's not funny. As I see it PvP is not content, any game that claims a focus on PvP is a game I don't play. I won't even give it a chance.
If full loot PvP is not used as content and kept off of PvE servers I see no problem with it. The major problem is that most games that claim full loot PvP as a feature do use it as a form of content, which is bad for everyone excluding the developer.
You just called all the people who like the full loot system gankers and then claim to be one of them. I think people who like full loot will take issue with that, not to mention you really should let someone else lead the charge after this fiasco. I'm sure the petition in itself is full of fail as well.
One other item for you. Full loot has nothing to do with Sandbox. They may coexist in a game but they are mutually exclusive game mechanics.
##Best SWTOR of 2011 Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011 Originally posted by daveospice "this game looks like crap?"
You just called all the people who like the full loot system gankers and then claim to be one of them. I think people who like full loot will take issue with that, not to mention you really should let someone else lead the charge after this fiasco. I'm sure the petition in itself is full of fail as well.
One other item for you. Full loot has nothing to do with Sandbox. They may coexist in a game but they are mutually exclusive game mechanics.
wait...who was this aimed at???
It could kinda be everybody....but..im not sure...
Oh and I do take offense to a "petition full of fail"...I will have you know sir...even if IS full of fail, its the idea that counts right?
Ok Regardless wether or not this Petition is a winner, everyone signing does indeed make a dent...
AND..not to mention, Jake Song will happily take into account his customers reactions and input unlike other devs that I have seen.
SO with that being said, it really would benefit EVERYONE to go and sign as server options often shows a games prestige, because it applies to a wider variety of customers than everyone being crammed into what they might consider a Mediocre Server setup.
It would really help alot if everyone was able to go to http://sandboxer.org/?p=541 and sign this petition to make server options for those who want it...So thereis an idea...Lets do this ....INSTEAD of trying to push your opinion or your sandy vagenda on everyone else.
+1 to NO WAY!. Special servers for game not designed around idea of full loot is fail for both players and devs. For players - just take a look at any MMO where PvP is just thrown like a big turd with saying "there and now buzz off"(say SWTOR, Rift). Same deal will be with full loot server, it'll be just crappy experience. Obviously for devs it'll cost development time for small group, which means low gain, ending with server failure and all efforts going to waste.
+1 to NO WAY!. Special servers for game not designed around idea of full loot is fail for both players and devs. For players - just take a look at any MMO where PvP is just thrown like a big turd with saying "there and now buzz off"(say SWTOR, Rift). Same deal will be with full loot server, it'll be just crappy experience. Obviously for devs it'll cost development time for small group, which means low gain, ending with server failure and all efforts going to waste.
really?.....I could do this all day long......
Common sense dictats..." I should read and know why I am even posting anything in this thread BEFORE I waste everybody elses time doing it "
click here to go read post #113, since your obviously to "oppinionated" to read before you spout your mouth off....
I will tell you the same thing I have already told all the other knuckleheads that dont read....but I will even make it into a Q & A for you...really easy.
Q. Is Archeage currently under devleopment?
A. Absolutely
Q. Is Archeage currently stil in beta in Korea......possibly 6-8 months out from hitting western shores?
A. You Got it
Q. Is jake song an awesome guy who puts customer service first over most other Devs such as NCSoft, EA, SOEetc....
A. Quite Possibly
Q. Is jake song putting so much effort into archeages design...... all in order to tailor it for international use
A. You betcha
Q. Is JS taking notes form players and using their input to tailor they game appropriately
A. THAT he is....
Q. Who is in control of all design and implementation
A. Jake..Obvisouly
Q. Is each individual entitled to what they want and perfectly free to express their desires to the dev when there is no possible way for it to negatively effect their game play by not going to the particular type of server that is being petitioned........
A. YES DAMNIT
Q. Do we want to continually hear you and all other ignents constantlly spout their oppinions of why they will NOT vote for it
A. .......H. E. DOUBLE HOCKY STICK NO!
As you can see from this friendly and very helpful Q & A being under development and running a beta means that implementing fluff such as server options is a huge plus for those who want it....hence the peition.
This petitions entire purpose is to implement server options for those who want it, I have already stated the benefits YOU would gain from it.......in post #113....if....you even bothered to anything behind your post at all..
But rather than thinking outside the box you have willfully ignored common sense as to the purpose of this petition.
I salute you sir....I myself can not possibly maintain as much bullheadedness as you have shown just now.
Either way theres other games than MO and DF with full loot, Tibia has full loot of sorts, theres blessings to take etc in order to not lose gear, EVE with full loot and "safety" highsec etc.
I could definetely see a full loot system work, but it depends a bit on gear availability which we dont know a lot about, maybe if someone from the korean beta is reading they could respond but lots of games can work well with full loot with just minor changes tbh.
EDIT: Also if you think levels is an issue then lets say theres a protection, no drops if the enemy is 10% lower than your level or such, theres easy workarounds for it anyway.
Yes thats what tab targeting is.
So your saying you want full loot...but ways to avoid it and level protection? That seems to defeat the purpose of full loot IMO.
I agree 100% with the guy that said full loot MMO's need to be designed from the ground up for full loot systems. If you tack it on at the end of the deveopment to a fantasy tab target MMO like Archeage then things will not turn out good.
Full loot will = low subs after a time. Too many anti social communities out there now who aim is to grief in such games big time using exploites and hacks. Any server setup in this way will just be exploited by these communities at the expense of others. The MMO genre is just too open to greifers so it's never a profitable choice for a company to go the full loot route.
I totally support a full loot server. Throw the gankers in, lock the door and throw away the key.
This. I have no idea why people love to torture themselves. Spend hours and hours getting something only to throw it all away. Whats funny though is that all the hardcore pvper are sore winners and super rageful losers. Yet they do it to themselves.
But yeah, if all these people are in one server, the other servers will be nice and peaceful.
I know not all hardcore pvpers are scumbags. Some of you are decent people, all 3 of you.
Either way theres other games than MO and DF with full loot, Tibia has full loot of sorts, theres blessings to take etc in order to not lose gear, EVE with full loot and "safety" highsec etc.
I could definetely see a full loot system work, but it depends a bit on gear availability which we dont know a lot about, maybe if someone from the korean beta is reading they could respond but lots of games can work well with full loot with just minor changes tbh.
EDIT: Also if you think levels is an issue then lets say theres a protection, no drops if the enemy is 10% lower than your level or such, theres easy workarounds for it anyway.
Yes thats what tab targeting is.
So your saying you want full loot...but ways to avoid it and level protection? That seems to defeat the purpose of full loot IMO.
I agree 100% with the guy that said full loot MMO's need to be designed from the ground up for full loot systems. If you tack it on at the end of the deveopment to a fantasy tab target MMO like Archeage then things will not turn out good.
No im not saying ways to avoid it, Im saying ways to make it so it wont go out of hand, even EVE changed so you are safe with a new character in the first systems and that game has harsh pvp.
Also i never said i want to play full loot pvp no, I've repeated this lots and lots of times but people dont seems to get it. My guild doesnt have this interest most likely and thus i wont participate in such but I KNOW there is interest for it and I wish those players to play the game they want also if its possible to implement in a decent way.
Also im really tired of people saying "nope doesnt work" when they arent game designers or game developers at all but just self proclaimed experts on the subject, I'm by no means a expert but I do believe I know more on the subject than many others considering Im at my senior year to become a game artist (university level). What Im doing is seeing the possibilities and not saying stuff doesnt work without the expertise, a LOT of things are possible and it just requires enough tweaking and attention and there are successful fantasy MMORPG games with features wished for just not some other features or popular enough to make for a good experience.
See the possibilities and work towards your goals.
Originally posted by reignjuste
So you are starting a petition without knowing if the game is gonna reelase in eu/na.
Full loot will = low subs after a time. Too many anti social communities out there now who aim is to grief in such games big time using exploites and hacks. Any server setup in this way will just be exploited by these communities at the expense of others. The MMO genre is just too open to greifers so it's never a profitable choice for a company to go the full loot route.
Doesn't really matter. ArcheAge will be a 100k+ subscriber game. Even if the full loot server had only 5% of total players that would be enough to cover any extra expenses that would incure from creating a full loot server.
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
Comments
I didn't read the whole thread as its too long, so this may have been said already, but full loot in tab target level based MMO's doesn't work. Theres simply too much of a gap between players and skill alone can't close it. It would simply let high level players gank and loot lower level players.
Also it's not like I'm against full loot in certain games, my to favorite MMO's of all time are MO and DF, it just doesn't work in tab target games with level systems.
What the fuck is tab target? WoW style targeting?
Either way theres other games than MO and DF with full loot, Tibia has full loot of sorts, theres blessings to take etc in order to not lose gear, EVE with full loot and "safety" highsec etc.
I could definetely see a full loot system work, but it depends a bit on gear availability which we dont know a lot about, maybe if someone from the korean beta is reading they could respond but lots of games can work well with full loot with just minor changes tbh.
EDIT: Also if you think levels is an issue then lets say theres a protection, no drops if the enemy is 10% lower than your level or such, theres easy workarounds for it anyway.
it honestly wouldnt. EVE is unique in where almost every single item in game is made by the players, and the economy is based on it. I am not 100% sure how archage handles their items, but i would have to say that all or most would have to be player made with almost no loot drops, or BOEs, or anything of the sort.
Just because its different from EVE doesnt mean it is impossible to get to work, of course its possible to make a system with full loot based on drops instead of crafting and such. Check tibia, you cant craft anything and it still worked from the early versions to what they have today. See and consider the possibilities instead of claiming it doesnt work. Yet we dont know how the items and crafting will work in AA yet so theres not even any point commenting on it until we have some source id say.
Also i dont need a lecture in how EVE works, ive been playing it for a while and is still playing it. Just currently somewhat inactive because I need a new corp.
a big +1to all you guys reading from post #113 on....for thinking outside the box AND for comprehending the point of the petition. .....and thank you if you signed it.
a little tiny -1 for magisan...
because he didnt get it...just like everyone else who didnt get it in front of post #113
he wanted to make it a debate and share his oppinion why he wont sign it, and in the end...he needed to be explained to by eveyrone else that the purpose of a petition during development of a game is to see those changes made and implemented if possible...REGARDLESS whether there is a good chance this petition will work or not....even though in the end..the only result of signing could very possibly have a positive impact on his game play....just like everyone else has already stated.
The more numbers there are...the better...its kinda like voting
you get idiot leadership....because everyone would rather debate about it...and not actually go vote or do anything useful about it.....go figure.
a rather large...+2.....for you sir
heeeeeey...at least put my name in there ....sheeesh
I'm not a fan of full looting and I would never play a game that had it as the only option but having more server choices is always a good thing.
While I agree with the above statements, full loot PvP has hurt every game that claims it as a feature even when limited to one or two servers. Once the majority of western gamers get word of it they will avoid the game. I am amoung those that avoid full loot PvP. I don't mind RP servers, I don't mind PvP servers as long as I can choose to partake or pass. But if there is a chance I can lose everything I have worked so hard to aquire, I will turn down every challange.
Full loot PvP has been used as content by so many games it's not funny. As I see it PvP is not content, any game that claims a focus on PvP is a game I don't play. I won't even give it a chance.
If full loot PvP is not used as content and kept off of PvE servers I see no problem with it. The major problem is that most games that claim full loot PvP as a feature do use it as a form of content, which is bad for everyone excluding the developer.
Not to bright are you?
You just called all the people who like the full loot system gankers and then claim to be one of them. I think people who like full loot will take issue with that, not to mention you really should let someone else lead the charge after this fiasco. I'm sure the petition in itself is full of fail as well.
One other item for you. Full loot has nothing to do with Sandbox. They may coexist in a game but they are mutually exclusive game mechanics.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
wait...who was this aimed at???
It could kinda be everybody....but..im not sure...
Oh and I do take offense to a "petition full of fail"...I will have you know sir...even if IS full of fail, its the idea that counts right?
Ok Regardless wether or not this Petition is a winner, everyone signing does indeed make a dent...
AND..not to mention, Jake Song will happily take into account his customers reactions and input unlike other devs that I have seen.
SO with that being said, it really would benefit EVERYONE to go and sign as server options often shows a games prestige, because it applies to a wider variety of customers than everyone being crammed into what they might consider a Mediocre Server setup.
It would really help alot if everyone was able to go to http://sandboxer.org/?p=541 and sign this petition to make server options for those who want it...So thereis an idea...Lets do this ....INSTEAD of trying to push your opinion or your sandy vagenda on everyone else.
really?.....I could do this all day long......
Common sense dictats..." I should read and know why I am even posting anything in this thread BEFORE I waste everybody elses time doing it "
click here to go read post #113, since your obviously to "oppinionated" to read before you spout your mouth off....
I will tell you the same thing I have already told all the other knuckleheads that dont read....but I will even make it into a Q & A for you...really easy.
Q. Is Archeage currently under devleopment?
A. Absolutely
Q. Is Archeage currently stil in beta in Korea......possibly 6-8 months out from hitting western shores?
A. You Got it
Q. Is jake song an awesome guy who puts customer service first over most other Devs such as NCSoft, EA, SOEetc....
A. Quite Possibly
Q. Is jake song putting so much effort into archeages design...... all in order to tailor it for international use
A. You betcha
Q. Is JS taking notes form players and using their input to tailor they game appropriately
A. THAT he is....
Q. Who is in control of all design and implementation
A. Jake..Obvisouly
Q. Is each individual entitled to what they want and perfectly free to express their desires to the dev when there is no possible way for it to negatively effect their game play by not going to the particular type of server that is being petitioned........
A. YES DAMNIT
Q. Do we want to continually hear you and all other ignents constantlly spout their oppinions of why they will NOT vote for it
A. .......H. E. DOUBLE HOCKY STICK NO!
As you can see from this friendly and very helpful Q & A being under development and running a beta means that implementing fluff such as server options is a huge plus for those who want it....hence the peition.
This petitions entire purpose is to implement server options for those who want it, I have already stated the benefits YOU would gain from it.......in post #113....if....you even bothered to anything behind your post at all..
But rather than thinking outside the box you have willfully ignored common sense as to the purpose of this petition.
I salute you sir....I myself can not possibly maintain as much bullheadedness as you have shown just now.
Yes thats what tab targeting is.
So your saying you want full loot...but ways to avoid it and level protection? That seems to defeat the purpose of full loot IMO.
I agree 100% with the guy that said full loot MMO's need to be designed from the ground up for full loot systems. If you tack it on at the end of the deveopment to a fantasy tab target MMO like Archeage then things will not turn out good.
Full loot will = low subs after a time. Too many anti social communities out there now who aim is to grief in such games big time using exploites and hacks. Any server setup in this way will just be exploited by these communities at the expense of others. The MMO genre is just too open to greifers so it's never a profitable choice for a company to go the full loot route.
So you are starting a petition without knowing if the game is gonna reelase in eu/na.
Nice
This. I have no idea why people love to torture themselves. Spend hours and hours getting something only to throw it all away. Whats funny though is that all the hardcore pvper are sore winners and super rageful losers. Yet they do it to themselves.
But yeah, if all these people are in one server, the other servers will be nice and peaceful.
I know not all hardcore pvpers are scumbags. Some of you are decent people, all 3 of you.
No im not saying ways to avoid it, Im saying ways to make it so it wont go out of hand, even EVE changed so you are safe with a new character in the first systems and that game has harsh pvp.
Also i never said i want to play full loot pvp no, I've repeated this lots and lots of times but people dont seems to get it. My guild doesnt have this interest most likely and thus i wont participate in such but I KNOW there is interest for it and I wish those players to play the game they want also if its possible to implement in a decent way.
Also im really tired of people saying "nope doesnt work" when they arent game designers or game developers at all but just self proclaimed experts on the subject, I'm by no means a expert but I do believe I know more on the subject than many others considering Im at my senior year to become a game artist (university level). What Im doing is seeing the possibilities and not saying stuff doesnt work without the expertise, a LOT of things are possible and it just requires enough tweaking and attention and there are successful fantasy MMORPG games with features wished for just not some other features or popular enough to make for a good experience.
See the possibilities and work towards your goals.
Is it fun being an ignorant person?
Doesn't really matter. ArcheAge will be a 100k+ subscriber game. Even if the full loot server had only 5% of total players that would be enough to cover any extra expenses that would incure from creating a full loot server.
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!