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Has any MMO done this for raids/dungeons? -ingame voice commands
Trolldefender99
Member UncommonPosts: 416
We all know these days, you HAVE to use Ventrilo or teamspeak to raid or dungeon or do anything in an MMO...I myself refuse to use it and come up with health/disabiliy reasons not to. I don't lie, or anything, so don't get the wrong idea...but I don't want to disclose what those disability(ies) are.
Plus...I don't want people to know what I sound like (and no it isn't because I "pretend to be female", my characters are always male. It is disturbing to be hit on by males on a female charater), nor do I want to hear a 10 year old...no...nor do I want to hear any real voice when I'm playing a game. I don't care if the person talking is a famous hollywood star and I'm his/her biggest fan...I still don't want to hear his/her voice. I play games to escape reality, not to be brought back into it. Besides, another negative...as soon as a female comes on voice chat...everyone (or even just one person, is all it takes) goes stupid. I will never use voice programs. Which is a shame that they are always required, since raids were a lot harder in the days of Everquest 1 and Asheron's Call...and I did them without voice...and the group was able to get through the raids just fine...and they were harder.
But, what about voice commands in the game? I don't know how raids work in modern MMOs, since I refuse to use anything related to voice...but what about commands that your character actually says (and not just text)...like "fall back" or "avoid ___" "focus target #1"...as some examples of what I'm getting at, but probably said better. This removes needing some secondary client running in the background, and for people who refuse or dislike using voice...can do just as good in a group.
It could work for PvP too...same kind of thing.
What do you guys think? Built in voice command in MMOs? Or do most just not care and use voice programs?
Or has this already been done? Or is any future MMO planning anything?
Comments
Many 5-man dungeons are designed around the fact that the five people will not be using voice chat. Many 5-man bosses will telegraph their move before they make it, either with a colored zone on the ground (Rift's favorite), boss shouts, or debuffs. The idea is that every group member knows when the boss ability is taking effect - no one ever needs to call out to the group what is happening.
It's different in a raid. Bosses might not telegraph a special move. There might be times where tanks must be rotated. A certain mechanic might force the group to split up in a certain way or to move all at once with perfect timing. The sheer involvement of more players in the raid might make a 'simple' mechanic harder to notice. In raids, there are so many more encounter mechanics and not paying attention to them usually means a wipe.
Since we all know it's pretty futile to type out instructions while you're in combat (since typing means you are not healing, generating threat / performing mitigation routines, dealing damage, or supporting the raid), voice chat becomes a necessity when you want to seriously raid stuff. Developers could make preset voice commands, but the commands would have to make sense for every type of encounter there is - developers would have to make a voice command that tells the raid: "X move in, absorb Stomp, and take aggro - Y go back to crystal and tank adds!". Commands like the ones you suggest will not cover all the issues. Even in PvP, if you want to coordinate a burst, you usually have to apply CC surgically to healers so that your burst / spike is not intercepted and this requires precision timing from every team member.
Voice chat is not going away, unfortunately. The level of communication is useful for a number of things including raiding, PvP, and straight up socialization. If you want to be a part of a coordinated team in a game, you're going to have to be on their voice server.
Im not quite sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you type something and then your character says this?
The whole point of using voice chats are that you can talk while playing. If you need to type something you are not playing. Every second you are typing something at your keyboard is a second you are not pushing buttons for abilities/moving around.
Unless your hear are non functioning i don't see why you despise vent , i've been using it since 2004 and i rarely ever speak because i rather follow someone's order than be blamed for giving the wrong order ... If you have a controlling personality and refuse to talk on vent then i might see why you would despise it...
A good trick to let people leave you alone about vent issue is to purposely screw around with voice quality and make it so they don't want to hear you
I think one problem gone unforeseen is lag. At the moment keystrokes are recorded and sent quickly and efficiently. Even now there are limits to what kind of lag is acceptable around 200 is great for mmo, 400 is playable and 600 is where it gets a bit slow. A voice command has to go through a few stages (and that's usually a second or two) before it becomes recognisable in game and then that information has to be sent to the server / to other players etc. Perhaps in a time where voice commands / activation is a common feature and in an entire system (from bios to OS) and is handled a quickly as a keystroke then voice commands would certainly come into question. I just don't think we have the technology yet.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Why would you want to use "voice command" when you have keystrokes.. simpler, faster, and more convenient ways to issue commands...
Well, I see some use for them: For console MMOs.
dear lord, must I iterate every single little thing for clarity's sake? Guess I should have. I definitely was not talking about the waste that is "console." LoL.
it would make limited sense, if you could use a set of predefined voice commands via hotkeys, like you can do it with emotes in most games. but thats very limited. you may have 10-20 keys. btw, how many hotkeys do you have already? do you really like more? however this will never be enough to replace voice chat.
if you think about a program, translating your typed chat into voice, thats fine, too. but, as already mentioned, you should not type in combat and it would be too slow anyways. perhaps for roleplaying outside of combat, such a tool would make sense.
now if you would have a program which does speech recognition and translates that to a female elves voice in realtime, that would be perfect. but i doubt, we will see that in the next decades in games. the technology is not there yet.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
This is easily accomplished like it was in Battlefield series.
This was a FPS game where no one ever used voice chat unless with friends. Why? You didn't need to.
All commands could instantly be given during action by pressing Q and using the mouse.
IMO, any game which requires VENT or VOIP or whatever ruins the entire RPG part. The last thing I want is to hear a bunch of perverted college freshmen jacking off to robot chicken while smoking weed until the middle aged house wife comes in with the voice of Marge Simpson, followed by the histarical laughter of a 12 year old kid playing a longbearded ancient dwarf.
People who require VOIP to play games take it way too seriously. If they like it, that's one thing. If they require it, that's just silly. To all those who say "Pro's require VOIP" or "The team with VOIP will whipe the floor with the people without VOIP" are simply not playing the right game. Even in a FPS game, it doesn't make that big of a difference. The cumulative player skill is what will make the biggest difference, and that is determined before the match ever starts.
I've never been beaten threatened by a PvP guild in WoW or SWTOR which uses VOIP. Why? I am better than most without VOIP. I perform teamwork naturally, through the use of common sense and teamwork. I don't need anyone telling me what to do, as I'm spamming Bubble, Heals, and target assisted DPS faster than most players can even process the words to say to express their needs.
I realize I'm not the only one, but IMO being told what to do or who needs what is a crutch that bad players use to avoid learning how to do it without being asked to.
just saying that in a fps, VOIP will win vs ppl who dont use it, maybe not if the VOIP players are a bunch of kiddies, but with VOIP u have way more control over the match, lets just say COD, ive played wars alot on that, and without VOIP i dont think i would of won that many ... if we play a war we dont start talking about random stuff, we talk onley when we have something usefull to say, like the position of the enemy, if u saw an enemy and then u say where u saw him over ts/vent, ur teammates might even be saved from a bullet in the back, he may even kill the person instead. BUT that is onley in a war. also COD is not a good game to use if u want to show teamwork, with all them lone wolves running around. though in a war, u still see teamwork, wich is mostly dependend on VOIP, [ IMO ]
ggBlade,
Congratulations, you have been randomly chosen to perform the PVP VALIDITY TEST!
To ensure that your attitude actually reflects your experience in PvP, you will now have 48 hours to post proof that you are an exceptional PvPer, at the judgment of your peers at MMORPG.com
Acceptable forms of proof are:
1 - In-game screenshots depicting that, somehow, you have a lot of experience in MMO PvP. This does not include screenshots of 'old' games! If you are so exceptional at MMO PvP, you must demonstrate that all of your knowledge is current! Pictures of (in)famous guild rosters you are in will work well, as long as they can be cross-referenced approipriately. TYPE OUT A TIMESTAMP WITH INGAME TIMESTAMPS ON AND PUT YOUR MMORPG.COM NAME IN THE CHAT BOX, VISIBLE IN THE SCREENSHOT
2 - Since you mentioned WoW - a link to your character's Armory will suffice. Cross-references must be able to clear with the character on the armory page. Validation will be timed and will occur randomly, involving both MMORPG.com and WoW. (I've seen a 2.4k pvper more humble than you on this site, let's see where yours ends up!)
3 - A video of MMO PvP, preferably narrated by you, that details your thought process behind most major actions in one arena / BG of your choice. LIKE OPTION ONE, TIMESTAMP WITH TIMESTAMPS ON AND NAME IN THE CHAT BOX
You now hold the reputation of all MMORPG.com PvPers on your shoulders! Prove that you are doing more than blowing hot air, or be forever known as a Master at Armchairs!
Good luck!
Well it depends on the game, really. I was thinking more along Battlefield 3 where VOIP isn't very useful.
In BF3, you can die a thousand times and still win the match because it's more important to focus a long term strategy than short term firefights.
In a game like Counter Strike, where once you die it's over, VOIP can be extremely powerful if position of enemy comes into play.
So it really depends on the game and the game mode. I just have never been a big supporter of VOIP, and don't find it helps those I constantly destroy in FPS games :P
To be fair, I am a rapid player and work very quickly and find others to be VERY predictable, so it is irrelevant what you say to your partner over VOIP. If your partner is dead, you're dead too, because your partner will tell you I'm coming through the door, but doesn't realize I knew you'd know that and I'm shooting your through the window :P
In MMORPG, text works fine. It's not like a FPS game in any regard. In a FPS game, typing WILL get you killed. In a MMORPG, typing CAN get you killed, but most of the time won't. Typing is also easier in MMORPG's than FPS games :P
I don't know, I could be wrong, but I find that those who get all serious about their PvP or competition and force VOIP on each other still don't compare to instinctual play. I don't have to communicate with my team to assist them or know where the enemy is. It is obvious when you're playing. I also rarely find VOIP useful as things happen so fast if you dont know, you are already dead. In FPS games it is useful to tell someone after you die or get pinned down where someone is, but it is typically VERY obvious since they are emitting a loud machine gun noise :P
1. Sure, I'll find a screenshot.
2. I don't play WoW anymore, and when I did I never played past lvl 70-ish. An armoy link wouldn't really prove anything, although I could show you battleground scores if I can find them.
3. Sorry, but asking someone to make a video, narrated by them, detailing their thought process is just...unrealistic. Do you really think people are THAT insecure they'd go out of their way THAT much just to prove something that doesnt matter?
I'm not here to brag at all. I'm merely stating my opinion, and simple fact: I am always at the top of the scoreboards, if not THE top. Then I am presenting my opinion on the usefulness of VOIP. It's just an opinion, although I am very often a deciding factor in victory due to my contributions.
On BF3 I finally have enough hours played to post a few details about the game. Depending on the class I play (Assault gets crazy scores but Recon my fave gets far far less) I have 9 #1 best player ribbons, 7 #2 ribbons, x5 #3 ribbons. I am quite proud of this as there are some absolutely insane BF3 players (some of which are cheaters, some which are just really good). As you can see, I am twice as often to be #1 than I am #3. So if I am the correct class and not goofing off or attempting a strategy which doesnt provide score per minute (such as reviving people constantly), I do quite well. I am one of the few who actually take objectives instead of jacking off. (True story!) and I actually revive people I see dead when I am assault, which is quite uncommon unfortunately. This new crop of BF3 players are nothing like BF2142 players.
I've been gaming for well over a decade so I have a lot of experience. Nothing I say is a lie, so I do not have to "prove" any of it. It's merely my opinion, and one which many others who don't use VOIP yet own in games will share. The simple fact you have to ask me to "prove it" is just silly. If you don't believe me, that is fine. I lose nothing by you not believing me as my opinion is just my opinion.
I use VOIP in BF3 with my brother, but rarely do we ever get an advantage from it. We mostly just talk about how stupid other people are, or how amazing we are dominating everyone else. FPS games are too fast to say "He's over there" and VOIP doesn't really help you show where "there" is. Yet a single press of Q will spot them for ALL players on your team and everyone will immediately know where they are, as they move.
Battlefield spotting and commands are very, very awesome. There is little need for VOIP when you have ingame voice commands like the Battlefield series has for quite some time.
If you would like, I can have you join me on SWTOR or BF3 and I can show you I am not lying by pwning you in the face repeatedly :P My favorite is to counter-snipe others by suiciding and spawning as a sniper when they begin to clump (as snipers) in one area. It is soooo fun to snipe, prone, snipe, prone, and repeat seeing each one fumble and fall. Unfortunately it doesnt happen alot but RAINBOW SIX: ROGUE SPEAR used to have servers dedicated to pure sniping, and I looooooooved that
One of my favorite games ever!
Seeing as how I don't keep screenshots of common occurences (being top server) I'll have to give you a recent one.
Here's my last match in SWTOR which ended 13 minutes ago.
I don't think voice commands would work to be honest, and I have first hand experience with this. In Left 4 Dead 2 you have 3 menus for voice commands, things like "hold up", a look command which makes your character say things in context to what your crosshair is on(if you're pointing at a character, you'll say that characters name, and when you're pointing at an item your character will call it out), stuff like that. I'm ignored every single time, and worse, people tell me to get a mic. What the difference is, I have no idea, but people don't pay attention to voice commands if there's voice chat going on. Plus with Vent and things like transmitting voice without pushing a button to enable voice transmission, it's just more convenient.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Visit my fail Youtube channel(don't leave me nasty messages!): http://www.youtube.com/user/Mirii471
Oh btw, just because someone doesn't belong to "famous guild rosters" doesn't mean anything, lol.
That is so silly, kindof like the VOIP thing :P
Most of the time "premades" are only very powerful because they are all geared out or choose overpowered FotM builds/classes.
If you want player skill, you're really going to be looking at FPS games more than MMORPG PvP.
I remember in Champions Online I created an extremely OP build which could take even tanks down in seconds through ridiculous burst damage. Upon hitting tier2, that immediately changed as Ego Blades could take you down in milliseconds :P
MMORPG PvP pwnage is nothing to be proud of, unless you consistently top scores across ALL classes, with mediocre gear. Decking out a twink or playing a Hunter/Paladin in lvl 19 Warsong isn't anything to be proud of. Getting 2-4 MVP votes at level 15 across all classes in most games you play in SWTOR is.
I typically don't enjoy PvP guilds because they aren't much different than other players except that they do what we called "Templating" in DAoC. A template would be maxing out all your gear and having the best of the best gear to maximize your power. A templated character would steam roll one with basic gear.
If you want to do some real experiments, find a few PvP guilds that are willing to work with you. Ask them to play multiple games with different controls. Let them play normally, then take away their VOIP, then let them have VOIP but dont let them gear up. Take away specific classes and see how they do, and mess around a lot. Then take the individual players (the best) and put them with others on the enemy team (the best as well) and watch as the individual players become the reason they win, not VOIP.
"Premades" and PvP groups are only as good as their blues/purples allow. VOIP is not the killer people think it is.
1) Left 4 Dead's voice commands are not inuitive like Battlefield's are. Although this is just my opinion, I find no one uses them but they did in Battlefield 2142.
2) Just because people have no idea about them, doesn't mean they wouldn't work. It just means they dont work unless people pay attention to them and know about them.
3) You're ignored because people aren't very good gamers or they're unaware of voice commands. Getting a mic will only fix this if they weren't paying attention to the fact these voice commands exist. Skilled gamers dont need someone over VOIP screaming "HUNTER ON ME!!!" because they already heard the hunter pounce and listen carefully for your character screaming naturally through the game's sound effects.
4) If there's already VOIP going on, there's less of a reason to use voice commands. Once again, this doesn't mean they wouldn't work.
In a MMORPG, you don't have VOIP like you do in a FPS game, unless you choose a third party program like VENT or TS or join a special channel in the game. A FPS games allows anyone who joined to talk. Conflicting voice commands and VOIP in a FPS game isn't the same as non-existent or private VOIP in MMORPG's.
In a MMORPG, especially in PvP, voice commands are far far far superior to VOIP because EVERYONE can hear the voice commands and benefit. Only your private VOIP friends can hear your VOIP. So while you VOIP to your friend of the incoming horde to the central flag, no one else hears you. 90% of your team is unaware. With voice commands, 100% of the team knows and people you dont even talk with will jump in to help central flag, saving the day.
You have to remember that VOIP is mostly private, while MMORPG's are entirely public--in a massive way. Voice commands are thus far far superior in a MMORPG due to this. The requirement of VOIP in raids is a problem already created which in game voice would only solve if the raids were significantly different than normal. You couldn't implement in game voice commands to WoW and expect people to stop using VOIP.
Finally, there will always be those hardcore dummies who think VOIP makes them superior just because they have a mic. Real evidence or reality won't convince these people of anything different, so it is impossible to convince them not to use VOIP. However...they CAN do a mix of private VOIP and public ingame voice commands as any rational gamer would when in a group with people who arent in their VOIP.
I remember DAoC required VOIP, and with voice commands and spotting it wouldnt have required it. Would have kept me playing. But with all the roaming, VOIP was a nightmare.
I personally think voice recognition is one of the next big steps for MMO's to take.
What you say gets converted to text and appears in a chat bubble above your characters head...that would be awsome. In raids your character calls out tactics etc...
And it sure would help trying to undestand some conversations going on nowadays with all the phone text shortcuts used and the fact that most people cannot spell (must spell check this now).
I just don't think we've ever seen any serius ingame voice command / UI system.
The only one I ever thought was perfect was Battlefield 2142's system. That was perfect and no one ever used a mic publicly. Those that did were often quiet or never said anything beyond a simple hello, checking to see if other VOIP players were there (and they never were, or only said hi and continued silence for the rest of the game).
The fundamental difference between most game's ingame voice commands and Battlefield's is the fluid UI, the ease of spotting players, and the most important aspect of commands doing more than just talking. Spotting a player would tell everyone where they are, spot them on the mini-map, and even allow Commanders to know where to drop Artillery Strikes.
Voicing at an objective would tell your squad to go attack it, giving them more points for accomplishing the objective. This was extremely important because these commands increased scores and helped teamwork and coordination. The Commander could give orders to any squad, and Squad Leaders could give commands as well.
It was very easy to request a medic, ammo supply, or any other command. All the quick commands were necessary, logical ones which provided real benefits for those who responded, encouraging this type of communication.
That would be interesting.
I'd be more impressed by voice to voice translation, where a little kid speaks and a troll in game is heard saying the same thing.
And by "more impressed" I mean I really wish that happened and that is one of my dreams
lol
All I needed you to say, thanks. The other things and the screenshot were really not necessary.
Now on to the full-loot threads.