Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

General: Towards a Culture of Inclusion

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,596MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

There are many ways that our games employ the idea of exclusion, wrongly so in most cases. In today's Devil's Advocate, we take a look at what exclusion is and how we and the folks who make our games can work together to be more inclusive. Check it out!

Today, I'd like to discuss this culture of exclusion with some examples of how certain sectors of the MMO gaming world make some players feel like second-class citizens in a realm where people should be generally equal. I'd also like to show some examples of ways in which the reverse is happening and a culture of inclusion is trying to be put forward, as well as what you can do to change the culture that pervades the gaming landscape today.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: Towards a Culture of Inclusion.

image

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

image
«13

Comments

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    {mod edit}

    image
  • SenadinaSenadina San Diego, CAPosts: 896Member Uncommon

    So go back into the closet?  Because that worked so well. Oh wait, no it didn't.

    image
  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member

    Agree, the whole exclusiveness nature of online gaming is beginning to annoy me. It wasn't like this back in the old days and doesn't need to be like this now either.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member


    {mod edit}

    maybe they are upfront about who they are because they dont want to be included under somewhat false pretenses, they say who they are and what they are about because they dont want to be included unless the person will accept them for who they really are. in which case they wouldnt care if they were excluded by that person or group. c{mod edit}


    I've got the straight edge.

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    {mod edit}

    little known fact (apparently) about "minorities" of any type who are often discriminated against.

     

    they have a good reason for making sure you know what they are right away.

    they are sick of investing any amount of time and/or effort being nice and polite to people who will end up attacking and undermining them as soon as they inevitably find out about it at a later time.

    better to weed those people out right off the bat.

     

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    I completely agree with KingofHartz. Most logical people dont hate you because you're gay, they hate you because you shove it down our throats every chance you get. Imagine if every white person got together and held a parade. Thats racist. Yet if a bunch of minorities (be it LGBT, skin color, whatever) do it, theyre showing pride. I dont care if you are gay, I just dont want to hear about it. Capeesh?

     

    its all about context.  

    white people in a predominately white society are unlikely to have any reason to have a "white gathering" (white conference, white club, white parade, etc.).......unless it's a racist thing.   because their daily lives generally are ALREADY FILLED with white gatherings, just by going to work, going out to eat/shop/whatever.

    {mod edit}

     

     

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • xxpigxxxxpigxx Harlingen, TXPosts: 412Member
    And political correctness rears its ugly head yet again.

    Just live and let live people. Is it that difficult?
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    I completely agree with KingofHartz. Most logical people dont hate you because you're gay, they hate you because you shove it down our throats every chance you get. Imagine if every white person got together and held a parade. Thats racist. Yet if a bunch of minorities (be it LGBT, skin color, whatever) do it, theyre showing pride. I dont care if you are gay, I just dont want to hear about it. Capeesh?

    I think you are looknig at it ass backwards.

    Most people in a particular demographic don't want to be thought of as different. They hold events because history shows us that at best they weren't included and at worst were demonized.

    You might "think" in the end it's an all night party but that "party" is really a statement saying "hey, stop making decisions that dont' take us into account as we are actually a part of the community and here we are".

    I'm sure most people of different demographics would just rather have the equal rights and treatment and forgo the parades.

  • logan400klogan400k Owings Mills, MDPosts: 68Member Uncommon

    I think the problem is that the gaming culture is based around the competitive nature of games. We all want to win and often civility is the first casuality of such a contest. In a fight you grab the closest heavy object; in this case its hate speech disguised as smack talk.  I don't that is going to end anytime soon without a broader education of the masses.

    Just My 2 Lunars

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member

    {mod edit}

    Visit London, Birmingham or better yet Bradford or Leicester in England...a couple of weeks should do it, whilst watching the BBC.

    image

  • jake200135jake200135 baton rouge, LAPosts: 13Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    I completely agree with KingofHartz. Most logical people dont hate you because you're gay, they hate you because you shove it down our throats every chance you get. Imagine if every white person got together and held a parade. Thats racist. Yet if a bunch of minorities (be it LGBT, skin color, whatever) do it, theyre showing pride. I dont care if you are gay, I just dont want to hear about it. Capeesh?

     

    Most gay people don't care if you don't care. We still try try to be honest about who we are. We live in the closet for quite a few years that once we're out, there's no way in hell we'd go back in. Its not up to you to like the honesty. We'll still be honest. And you shouldn't speak for other people. Most people who find out I'm gay don't think I'm "shoving it down their throat", they just understrand that I wont lie about who I am. And believe it or not, most gay people don't just run around informing others their gay right off the bat. And not all gays are flamboyant queens. I'm not flamboyant in the slightest. Most people think I'm striaght. But they still always find out. And when they ask me, thats when I refuse to lie and say I'm straight. And those that are flamboyant, there's nothing wrong with that, thats just who they are. The fact that you think what you just said is fact shows you have a very limited view of LGBT people. Do all black people like rap, fried chicken and water melon? No. Do all asians know kung-fu? No. Do all gay people wear just their skivvies and then adorn a shit ton of rainbows on top of that and then prance around town to show tune songs? No. You should inform yourself of a subject before you decide to comment on it, your own stupidity shows itself when you do that.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    And suddenly the article seems to have been a bad idea, isn't it Mr. Barreiro.

    image
  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    A culture of exlucision is bad, as is a culture of inclusion. They're both extremes, and they should not stricly mandate player behavior. Beng coerced into 'playing nice' with other players who simply aren't good at a certain aspect of the game, or otherwise dissagreeable in some manner, isn't always fun for other players. But at the same time, other players should not feel like they can go out of their way to single out and harass such players either. Those players should be given the opportunity to find their place in the game free from harassment.

    A better approach is to focus on creating a sense of community in MMOs. It's something that has been lacking in recent years, and it helps to deter anti-social behavior and encourages assisting other players in need of it as well. But it by no means mandates inclusion of other gamers, rather it simply helps encourage more positive interaction between them. But a lot of this is built upon a foundation of general respect from between one player to another, and sadly respect for fellow gamers is something that has also been woefully absent over the past several years.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Well, it sure is a fine topic for potificating.  Wonder how it applys to gaming, except where we game there are often other people?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ExilorExilor Las Palmas de Gran CanariaPosts: 391Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Im not anti-gay, Im not racist. {mod edit}



    Like I said, if you want to be gay than ok, thats your choice. But dont think Im a bad person for not agreeing with it, or being annoyed by certain people who are gay.

    If we want to be gay? As in deciding one day "I'm bored with my life. I think from now on I will be gay. That will spice things up."?

    Seriously?

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    {mod edit}

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Im not anti-gay, Im not racist.{mod edit}



    Like I said, if you want to be gay than ok, thats your choice. But dont think Im a bad person for not agreeing with it, or being annoyed by certain people who are gay.

    You are generalizing about a group of people, and that will always be wrong.  (in the sense that any generalization of a large entity is foolish)

    saying EA is a bunch of liars, or that walmart employees are rude, or any groups is ____ is going to be wrong. 

    You are trying to justify the generalization by saying that "most of them" are, or "Just the ones you've encountered", that doesn't change the premise, its just tyring to jutsify it.

    Lets replace your last sentance words just for some fun.

    Like I said, if you want to be a woman than ok, thats your choice. But dont think Im a bad person for not agreeing with it, or being annoyed by certain people who are women.

    now see how silly you sound? 

    (I personally love women, I'm just trying to prove the point that you can't single out any group of people, its wrong and silly)

    We must be inclusive and fair and equal to all peoples of the world.

    Separate but equal is wrong.

     

     

    Edit:  I sincerely hope you've read my statement.  I just wanted to point out I feel women are the most marginalized minority when it comes to video games, and  I think its all sorts of messed up.  My best friend is constantly being looked down upon or spoken down to because she happens to be a woman.  That or worse the reverse, they think you are an airhead but ooo she has boobies!  Lets give her things!   Why can't we just judge ALL persons of the content of their charater.

  • jake200135jake200135 baton rouge, LAPosts: 13Member

    {mod edit}




     

    I don't think Exilor understood what you were trying to say there. And I do agree with you on that point, yeah some like to create drama. My point was that you shouldn't judge all gays because a select few like to act like twats.


  • ExilorExilor Las Palmas de Gran CanariaPosts: 391Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Thank you Exilor for proving my point. I meant if you were born like that, and see it as something you enjoy, then by all means go for it.



    Once again, creating drama over nothing

    If you start labelling everything as drama you will see drama everywhere.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon







    {mod edit}














     












    I will never go back into the closet, let alone do so so others can feel comfortable or to "avoid trouble".  The reason why I even bring it up is so that others can understand where I am coming from and who I am.  More often than not, it comes out because the topic of discussion  is about people you find attractive and I shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable because the heteros can't deal with my version of it.













    P.S.  The reason why heteros don't have to go around advertising that they are hetero is because we live in a culture that automatically implies that you are.  You don't have to explain yourself and you don't have to worry about expressing your implied heterosexuality in public.



    image
  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member

    Laughing-Man your argument is valid, and I dont generalize things often, but if everyone was gay how would the human race repopulate? You cannot argue that being gay IS different from the normal behavior of animals. {mod edit}Personally id say my viewpoint is about the best compromise the gay community can hope for.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Exilor

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Thank you Exilor for proving my point. I meant if you were born like that, and see it as something you enjoy, then by all means go for it.



    Once again, creating drama over nothing

    If you start labelling everything as drama you will see drama everywhere.

    Look at those politians causing drama, look at mmorpg making this thread and causing drama, look at google aquiring some company and causing everyone to freak out.. oh wait DRAMA

    Everything is "dramatic"

    people just choose to percieve things in a certain way and they get stuck and set in their ways.  Can't blame them, its human nature.  Look how hard it is to turn away from a violent life, or one of meekness, or to leave behind things like caffine or sugar.  We're creatures of habit.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Laughing-Man your argument is valid, and I dont generalize things often, but if everyone was a woman how would the human race repopulate? You cannot argue that being a woman IS different from the normal behavior of animals. {mod edit} Personally id say my viewpoint is about the best compromise the feminist community can hope for.

    Again, no offense intended, my point here is that you need to look at what you are saying in a different context and see that your viewpoint is unfair.

    Do you think people choose to be gay?

    If so you should really so some research before forming an opinion.  Thank you.

     

    Edit:  all that being said, I consider myself a feminist, so thats why I choose to use these words, its easy to identify with their movement too, as everyone has a mother.

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member

     




    Originally posted by Laughing-man





    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    Im not anti-gay, Im not racist. {mod edit}



    Like I said, if you want to be gay than ok, thats your choice. But dont think Im a bad person for not agreeing with it, or being annoyed by certain people who are gay.




    You are generalizing about a group of people, and that will always be wrong.  (in the sense that any generalization of a large entity is foolish)

    saying EA is a bunch of liars, or that walmart employees are rude, or any groups is ____ is going to be wrong. 

    You are trying to justify the generalization by saying that "most of them" are, or "Just the ones you've encountered", that doesn't change the premise, its just tyring to jutsify it.

    Lets replace your last sentance words just for some fun.

    Like I said, if you want to be a woman than ok, thats your choice. But dont think Im a bad person for not agreeing with it, or being annoyed by certain people who are women.

    now see how silly you sound? 

    (I personally love women, I'm just trying to prove the point that you can't single out any group of people, its wrong and silly)

    We must be inclusive and fair and equal to all peoples of the world.

    Separate but equal is wrong.



     

    Women seem to constantly have a go about the tidyness of my room, whether it effects them or not. I feel they persecute my rights as a man to drop my underwear on the floor as i see fit.

    They also occupy sofa, fridge and bathroom territory without consideration for the original settlers/owners of these areas. I don't mind them integrating their yoghurts with my beer, as long as there is room for both in harmony.

    I also find it discriminatory that they assume i'm watching porn, when i'm merely browsing forums at night time or that the odd loose tissue isn't from a runny nose.

    I demand...

    ..nah they cool, boobies n that :)

    image

  • jake200135jake200135 baton rouge, LAPosts: 13Member



    Originally posted by Laughing-man




    Originally posted by 77lolmac77



    Laughing-Man your argument is valid, and I dont generalize things often, but if everyone was a woman how would the human race repopulate? You cannot argue that being a woman IS different from the normal behavior of animals.{mod edit}Personally id say my viewpoint is about the best compromise the feminist community can hope for.

    Again, no offense intended, my point here is that you need to look at what you are saying in a different context and see that your viewpoint is unfair.

    Do you think people choose to be gay?

    If so you should really so some research before forming an opinion.  Thank you.






     

    Yeah, Laughing-man actually has a very nice way of putting it. Sorry I'm not all that good at expressing what I mean, but he's putting it into words very nicely. Generalizing groups of people makes you seem very uninformed about said people.


«13
Sign In or Register to comment.