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What sandbox MMO has the best combat?
mmoguy43
Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
I'm partially on the look out for a sandbox MMO that has very good combat but I ususally don't find anything better than what a themepark MMO would have. What is the sandbox MMO with the best combat that you can think of?
Comments
I thought the combat in Darkfall was awesome, if you like manual-targeting/aiming and using your own skills. Archery was a blast.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
there's only Eve and possible Perpetuum
other games are either too clunky (HnH, Xsyon, Wurm)
or do not exist.
As a matter of fact, there are only like 5 actual sandbox games in existence hehe and only Eve has anything close to acceptable combat.
If you want a Lineage 2 sort of sandbox (that is a game with almost no quests or direction, but that looks and feels like a theme park), I don't think I can recommend any. they all feel too contrived and cheap to me.
So Eve Online -> if you want spaceships pew pew
Perpetuum -> if you want to walk on the ground and pew pew
I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs
I'd have to give my vote to Mabinogi as my favorite. Much more tactical, and is unique from the rest of the MMO market.
I liked that you could make your own skills in Ryzom, but otherwise it was still auto-attack/smash hotbar.
DARKFALL
Mortal Online and Darkfall in my opinion. MO because its a little Mount and Blade style and Darkfall mainly due to the ranged combat.
EVE - more slow paced, strategical combat
Darkfall - more fast paced, fps style combat
its a matter of preference between those 2
If you push yourself to get into the deeper aspects of combat in Eve, the level of tactics and player numbers you can achieve there is utterly insane compared to anything else ever created in human history. True, there can be wait times as you and the other side are preparing and trying to scout each other out, but once one of you moves in...it's freaking intense, even with small numbers of ships on either side. Push yourself to become a good FC (fleet commander) in Eve in a good corporation and you won't be disappointed.
Where's the any key?
I haven't tried Darkfall but I'd give that one a shot. Eve has rather passive and simple combat compared to most games and Mortal Online is just plain awful.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
have to agree with what everyone here is saying. EvE, DF, and MO are my top 3.
personaly i take MO as my favoirte style of combat. the "Skyrim like" fps melee combat (when it's working correctly) is just incredibly realistic and thrilling, however the game it'self is far from reccomendable due to many bugs and preformance issues.
i like DF's combat a lot but i dont like the melee in 3rd person and all the buffs you have to keep stacking. if DF had a first person view for their melee combat it would go a long way to making it a condender vs MO for 1st place. as of right now every time i play DF i feel that i keep switching between a fps game and a weird 3rd person hybrid game. i really never undestood why they didnt just make a fps melee combat, it makes so much more sense then the forced 3rd person thing.
EvE is a completely different kind of combat. most of teh work it's done before you engage in EvE, the actual fight is pretty simple. lock on target, select orbit, open fire, repear wehn needed, hope your guns do more damage. it's still very fun especially since it's full loot but it's a lot more knowledge based combat instead of actual aiming/timing/movement skill. of course group combat is much more complicated. the whole feel of combat is a lot slower too.
either way they all have free trials. i know it's a pain to download stuff but you should still give them a try and find out what you like best.
Darkfall.
Best combat. (except that there are no skill caps so it has often been a nightmarishly imbalanced game.)
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Sounds easy and simple when you talk about it. But when you are in the middle of it, it can be a different story, especially if you are taken by surprise and panic. Misclick or wrong reaction could get you dead before you can think about the right strategy to use against your opponent. The blaring warning sounds from your ship as you're getting shot don't help either.
From those 3 (DF,EvE,MO) which one more forgiving as far as dieing and loosing all your stuff in it's FFA PvP? Which one lets new players get a good footing before PvP is thrust upon you?
EvE has a high security zone which you can incubate in as long as you like, if you are ganked (ganking is still possible in highsec but unlikely) within your first week of playing you can petition it. GM will probably give the player that PK's you a stern warning...
yes as long as you stay in high sec space you will almost never get ganked in EvE, unless you really piss off someone bad or are known to carry lots and lots of goodies. in EvE is all about risk vs reward. you can hang arround in the security of high sec and putter along doing decent cash from pve or you can go into low sec and risk big for the rare minerals and phat loot from pvp. it's really all up to you how much you want to risk.
also in EvE you ensure you ship so when it gets destroyed you only actually lose a portion of value, not the whole thing. wile loosing ships is expencive it's not nearly as bad at it could be without insurance.
DF and MO are prety similar in how unforgiving they are. the only safe areas in both games are inside NPC cities. everywere else you are fair game for anyone. in both games when you die all you have on you: armor, weappons, loot in your bags and horse all get dropped in a bag on the floor for anyone's taking. in both games if you dont want to lose it dont take it out of your bank.
the only help you get is an 8 hour "newbe" flag you get which prevents people from ganking you. once the 8 hours of gameplay are finished you are just like everyone else.
there is no insurance of any kind in either game so when you die and get looted you have to buy/get all new gear.
not gonna lie, DF and MO are not easy on newbes. i highly reccomend joining a guild asap in either game. it will make your life incredibly easier.
I thought ryzom's combat was actually the best, darkfall/MO combat to me felt very clunky and stiff. In ryzom you can fully customize your spells, sacrificing range for more damage or changing other attributes.
For skill based combat there are only two options, Darkfall and Mortal Online.
Darkfall has some awsome PvP but it is very twich style (almost like Quake) and there is no specialization as the game has no skill cap which means you'll need to use magic, melee, and archery which will take you a couple of months to grind up before you can PvP.
Mortal Online has a simpler system where the melee is like a simple version of Mount and Blade and the magic is simply charge, point and shoot. Currently the game has some dodge prediciton system issues and it can't really handle large battles (100+ people). The good thing is you can specialize and it only takes a week or less to max a character for PvP.
Currently, none to my knowledge.
Darkfall is pretty much FPS gameplay, which could have been fun if the mechanics it is set in to were more like, UO. Darkfall is not UO by a longshot. Too much hacking too many exploits. And no matter how good hand eye coordination you have the game underneath has a themepark functionality to it because you can raise some skills to a point where you would not even take any damage, with resistances and HP etc etc...
So the game overall, I found to be, a big contradiction.
EVE, well, has a Sandbox Scope overall (which is well setup and well balanced), but the actual combat of it is boring as hell (for my tatse). It is all strategic based, and there are really no tactics except the "Surprise" element. Once the combat does start, it is all die rolls and the one who wins is the one that has been the most prepared for the engagement before it takes place (hence strategic based), but barren of any tactics during combat, not even maneuvering counts, facing, etc...
I did not try Mortal Online..after the initial blunder that was Darkfall, i was not even interested to look at something similar.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Definitely this!
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That part in red, perhaps true in one on one PvP, but with any kind of group combat, very wrong. The order in which your group selects and destroys (or tries to destroy) the enemy ships is increadibly important for determining the winner, and you have to adapt to a constantly shifting situation such as when unexpected reinforcements show up. It's not just get close, orbit and fire; it's more like fire on one, while neutralizing the energy of a second and putting EWar on a third, while your logistic ship(s) have to quickly adapt to whomever on your side is getting targeted and keep them alive as much as possible, and the enemy may decide to suddenly switch targets to trip them up...there can be more tactics involved in a small gang vs gang fight in Eve Online in five minutes than in the entirety of a PvP round session in something like WoW or Rift.
Where's the any key?
It's not even true in one on one PvP. Ofcourse you can do it like that, warp in, lock, scramble, orbit and shoot and just hope for the best. But maneuvering helps alot, keeping your target in your optimal range and staying out of his, keeping transversal high when it matters and other things like that. Like keeping out of scram range so you can get away if the fight is not going your way.
Theres alot more to Eves combat then it seems at first.
I'd probably say that Darkfalls ranged combat (didn't like the melee combat that much) and Eves combat are both great, but very different.
Its painfully obvious that all but 1 poster above, so far that mentioned EvE pvp, has never even remotely gotten involved in real large scale professional level warfare. I lead an alliance called gentlemen's club for about 1.5 years, we had about 2500 members at our max and about 2k members in our various training / renter alliances. We controlled about half a 0.0 region, and owned about half a dozen stations. ....and we were considered scrubs when it came to the top of the heap, though we werent to just be discounted. We rolled with our big brother alliance ATLAS in a few massive wars, 1 of which ended in righteous victory, and 2 of which failed pretty hard. The last one more or less took the wind out of my sails, and I realized i had just wasted over a year of my life fighting with the russians over internet pixels.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Mya+ElleTerego
Thats not me bragging btw, thats just me backing up what I am saying.
Eve combat is what you make of it, you can surely like above posters say, click a few buttons, set an orbit, and pray. That will 99/100 times get you killed and laughed at by almost anyone with real pvp experience. Holding range, keeping yourself aligned at key times during conflicts, keeping your tranversal speeds up so you can avoid being shot entirely, outrunning slow missles, avoiding getting your team tackled or flying into warp bubbles, and tackling your opponents when its time to go in for the slaughter, are just a few of 100s of tactics that are necessary for a competent FC to have under his belt. Not to mention knowing local politics, and global politics of the regions your roaming for pvp, knowing how to setup fleet doctrines to ensure that your team of 10-500 pilots are in proper ships to support each other, and to create strategys for sustainability in long engagements. Are just basic things that a fleet commander should have complete grasp of. To top that all off you have to be ready to escalate fights, with capital ships, suicide bombing runs, reinforcements cleverly hidden in other systems, and exit strategys to minimize loss of morale and isk in ships to your team, should things get escalated by your enemies.
Eve is by far the most complicated, destructive, adrenaline pumping game ever created. The only thing holding back a player is themselves, and thier ability to game.
yes but ALL of the above mentioned also goes for games like DF and MO group battles, but in addition you have to also aim every single shot, watch out not to friendly fire, position yourself, Los, keep the enemy in sight because they are not on a map, etc, etc.
wile i will agree that EvE's combat can be complex and intricate it's not nearly as fast paced or twitch skilled based as DF/MO. it's just different combat styles all together. EvE's combast is a lot more tactical then twitchy, wile in DF/MO aim and reflexes will win you the battle.
MO pvp is nothing like that, its get on horse and kite with bugged archery bows, or be a member of AQ and use cronite to lol 2 hit noobs to death that are in steel armor. Darkfall i cant really agree / disagree on, when i saw the flesh wall for the first time, i deleted the game.
there, fixed.
But in either of the games, don't expect to be WTFPWNING players for months.. (unless you got someone to back you up with gear, money etc.) and still you need alot of time to gain enough ingame skills to compete
how is darkfall now? have they improved it in any significant manner since its release?