Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

ArcheAge must definitely introduce instanced-PvE.

2

Comments

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon

    As many others have pointed out, relying on instanced PvE is probably the worst thing they could do to damage the basic design concept of the game.  Instancing takes people out of the world, and I believe there are more than enough games that do that already.  It would be nice to have a few more true virtual worlds, because there are too many lobby games out there disguised as MMORPGs as it is.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member

    Pure randomness of the world boss encounter gets me excited.

    How great it is when Kraken shows up somewhere, destroying some poor dude's ship and then the whole server hears about it, gathering fleet and going hastily to try and kill it before others?

    That's just dream come true.

  • kantseemekantseeme millville, NJPosts: 709Member

    Originally posted by Manasu

     Also have to say once again, stop being close minded! Many MMOs today are heavily focused on PvP and as a result they discourage PvErs from playing the game and they quit! BUT! There are many ways that people can think of to make that players STAY!

     In my opinion, MMOs today have reached the bottom of in-depth on PvP (I think even from the days of Ultima Online) but this HAVE NOT happened in PvE yet! There are many ways to enhance it and use it that to EMPOWER the Open world PvP!

    PvErs are a very big playerbase of MMOs today, and they definitely can help creating a breathing open world full of PvP. If we give them REAL PvE, REAL FUN AND CHALLENING PvE there are ways to combine it with PvP and use their effort to enhance open world. I will just give an example, imagine players having a real, strategic fight with the final boss of an instanced raid. Were HARD and TACTICFUL encounters are involved, and when the boss dies players will be able to skin him or gather some "protected" materials. Then these materials could be used to empower the crafts or their guild castle/village!  Of course these materials would be gatherable to open world too! Yeah, you might say "People would just PvE to get them" - BUT THIS HAD TO DO WITH DEVELOPERS THE IDEAS and how the implement it! If they have a really challenging and strategic PvE fight then it would be VERY HARD to acquire them (harder than open world)! Then why would people try to gather them in instanced raids? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE LIKE PVEing that way! GIVE them a challenge, give them a reward and enhance open world pvp. There are many many other ideas in order to balance and combine them, dont be close minded. INSTANCED PvE today in themeparks is just a meaningless grind for gear etc. no effort, no real fun, no challenge. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES! TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE PVE PLAYERBASE, THERE ARE WAYS, DONT BE NARROW MINDED.

    How does your example of PvE and crafting have anything to do with PvP?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by revy66

    Originally posted by lizardbones
    I agree with the statement that Instanced PvE is better for a certain kind of encounter. One that requires a good deal of coordination and planning, plus learning the script of the boss and the dungeon itself.

    I disagree with the statement that ArcheAge needs to have that kind of content. There is something to be said for a lot of people running amok trying to kill a boss, while at the same time trying to fend off attackers. It's a different kind of fun.

    ArcheAge needs to have content that appeals to their core players. If their core players are going to want instanced pve content, then that's what they should do. If their core players are going to want open world pve content, then that's what they should do. ArcheAge will probably have a couple core audiences, so the ideal solution will be to have both instanced pve content and open world pve content, similar to Rift and possibly other games I haven't played.

    I am not surprised by this comment but I disagree. The only difference between an instanced boss and an open world boss is that one is well...instanced. Everything else can be made identical (if the devs so desire) with tactics, phases and whatnot.



    Take any WoW raid boss from Lich King forward, move it into the open world and add opposing faction players and you'll have a boss that's impossible to kill. A single timely stun or skill lockout on a healer or tank and you've killed the entire raid. The margin for error in stepping off of the script is nearly 0. In those encounters, everything is planned, everything is scheduled and everything follows a script. A random disruption to the script breaks the encounter.

    Open World Bosses and Instanced Bosses are not the same. They may have originally started from the same source, but the instanced bosses have become something else. Something that depends on opposing faction (or opposing guild) players to not be there.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Some beta-testers said that there were 2 instanced pve dungeons (1 on each continent) ,but it is not in current beta build. Why? Either it was not fitting into world / gameplay good enough or they are taken out cause were bugged or something.

     

    Anyway - WHILE I understand that some people would like to have all that ArcheAge offers in matter to world, crafting, housing, travelling, great looks, engine , teritoral control ,pvp AND similar PvE as in f.e. WoW with many dungeons and some raids at start - it will not happen.

     

    Why? Apart of gameplay reasons (two contradicting game designs in one game) ,second thing is finances. You basically want ArcheAge + WoW PvE and that would require additional big fat millions.

     

    Imagine how expensive this game would have to be...

     

    Concluding - while I can imagine AA having some very few insanced PvE (who knows?)  - If you're type of player that like running instanced PvE encounters as almost excluisvely thing to do (once you hit max level in themepark) - then this game might not be for you.

     

    Just think out of the box.  There are more gameplay types in mmorpg's than grinding instances to get coins for armor.

     

    There will be PvE in ArcheAge for sure - I am myself player who like to PvE (in wide range of this word) ,and I am not coming to AA to PvP all the time  - actually I don't think I will PvP much ,but still this is game that will concentrate on making it seem like "real" virtual world + focused more on PvP than PvE for sure.

  • viddiot007viddiot007 Hartford, CTPosts: 96Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    I am intrested in this game. There are enough instance shit who call themselves MMORPG's but aren't and not much of the real ones like these.

         Oh yeah. If this game pans out to be like i hope it will be, Its gonna be epic. Themepark has been fun, but im eager to get back to sandbox mmo's. Cant wait to get my dirty pawz on this one. BTW the only mmo my wife has ever played with me was SWG. the sandbox stile of an mmo means she can do what she wants and not have to worry about technical stuff that comes with themepark istancing and cuch. She isnt a gamer, and SWG brought us closer together.

    image
  • kantseemekantseeme millville, NJPosts: 709Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     




    Originally posted by revy66





    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I agree with the statement that Instanced PvE is better for a certain kind of encounter. One that requires a good deal of coordination and planning, plus learning the script of the boss and the dungeon itself.



    I disagree with the statement that ArcheAge needs to have that kind of content. There is something to be said for a lot of people running amok trying to kill a boss, while at the same time trying to fend off attackers. It's a different kind of fun.



    ArcheAge needs to have content that appeals to their core players. If their core players are going to want instanced pve content, then that's what they should do. If their core players are going to want open world pve content, then that's what they should do. ArcheAge will probably have a couple core audiences, so the ideal solution will be to have both instanced pve content and open world pve content, similar to Rift and possibly other games I haven't played.







    I am not surprised by this comment but I disagree. The only difference between an instanced boss and an open world boss is that one is well...instanced. Everything else can be made identical (if the devs so desire) with tactics, phases and whatnot.







    Take any WoW raid boss from Lich King forward, move it into the open world and add opposing faction players and you'll have a boss that's impossible to kill. A single timely stun or skill lockout on a healer or tank and you've killed the entire raid. The margin for error in stepping off of the script is nearly 0. In those encounters, everything is planned, everything is scheduled and everything follows a script. A random disruption to the script breaks the encounter.



    Open World Bosses and Instanced Bosses are not the same. They may have originally started from the same source, but the instanced bosses have become something else. Something that depends on opposing faction (or opposing guild) players to not be there.

     

    Yeah instanced bosses became just like bosses from old console games. Randomness is gone and replaces with set rules. They have patterns just like the old Mega Man bosses. If its tail waggs 3 times you know its goin to turn and breath fire. If it casts a stun spell you know its goin to vanish and reappear somewhere else. Boss fights are all scripted now.

  • NightfyreNightfyre Pandora, OHPosts: 173Member Uncommon

    WoW did it one way I liked that I think would work without the whole constant  zoning.  Forget the actual name but as you progressed through quests the area changed, that other people wouldn't see if they were not at the same part as you.  Click on an orb or something and the area starts to spawn monsters only your party or you can see.

     

    I'm for scripted world events, be it a siege attempt on a castle or invasion in a town where you have to save as many people as you can to gain a bonus reward.

    Darkfall (even thought it's not a well known game) done it without instanced so it can be done.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,124Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nightfyre

    WoW did it one way I liked that I think would work without the whole constant  zoning.  Forget the actual name but as you progressed through quests the area changed, that other people wouldn't see if they were not at the same part as you.  Click on an orb or something and the area starts to spawn monsters only your party or you can see.

     

    I'm for scripted world events, be it a siege attempt on a castle or invasion in a town where you have to save as many people as you can to gain a bonus reward.

    Darkfall (even thought it's not a well known game) done it without instanced so it can be done.

    so its like your little world inside a world huh?

     

    is not that what we are saying we don't want? leave the game like it is, we need something like that again, not another wow boring easy, and not imaginative,

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
    image

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    There is only one reason I actually like instances.   If I'm supposed to do a quest that sends me to the "tower of death" ... this horrible place which no one has ever gone to and returned alive...

     

    In many MMO's .. I'd zone in and find 200 players fighting over spawn points and nothing alive to fight.   So in that sense I support instances for specific purposes.

     

    I don't support them to be a safe haven in a pvp world.   If a game wants to seperate pve/pvp or at least have areas that are pve only.. there are better ways to do it.   Launching a game like UO with Trammel from the start... or the daoc system which had the frontier for RvR.

     

    As to the OP... You can always find those same players deep in combat and return the favor another time...  The revenge factor can be some key motivation in the realm of PvP.

     

     

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,980Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Manasu

     Also have to say once again, stop being close minded! Many MMOs today are heavily focused on PvP and as a result they discourage PvErs from playing the game and they quit! BUT! There are many ways that people can think of to make that players STAY!

    INSTANCED PvE today in themeparks is just a meaningless grind for gear etc. no effort, no real fun, no challenge. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES! TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE PVE PLAYERBASE, THERE ARE WAYS, DONT BE NARROW MINDED.

    You are the only person in this conversation being closed minded.  Too long has game design permitted PVE'er to hide themselves away from the greater open world, and it's time for a game to come out that eliminates that mechanic.

    We have to find ways to get everyone to play in the open world, together at all times.  It will require creativity to ensure that PVE'ers accomplish their goals without too much interference, yet forces them to interact with the greater PVP community.  EVE is an excellent example of one possible solution, but I'm sure there are others that can be developed.

    As to your comments on more interesting and engaging PVE encounters, you're talking more about dance steps and less about PvE.  There's actually nothing wrong with tank and spank, the goals are different than the Arthur Murray style of MMO encounter design.

    Now I see the arguments to accomodate everyone's desires but I feel it can't be done.  On this issue the two are mutally exclusive.  If you are trying to create a virtual world where players regularly interact, you cannot let them segregate themselves away in some instance or you defeat one of your primary goals.

    Edit, BTW, I'm a carebear who primarily PVE's in MMO's, however I do it in open world games where PVP is frequent, it makes them seem more vibrant and alive to me.  When I played WOW, the open world Dragon encounters were far more fun, especially if some other guild tried to spoil it for you, than the instanced content of MC or Blackwing Lair.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • BenjolaBenjola RotterdamPosts: 667Member

    First time I saw instanced dungeons was in Everquest in 2000 somethin`, can't remember exactly when it was or if EQ was first MMO to introduce them but I never really liked instancing of any kind.

    It just goes against everything a MMORPG stands for, or at least what it stood for in late 90's early 2000`s and what I think it should stand for.

    IMO instancing was the first step towards screwing up the genre and then the disaster called WoW came along heh.

     

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • BoosthungryBoosthungry red bank, NJPosts: 137Member

    I hate instances.  That's why I can't believe people are excited for games like Diablo 3 where the game is based entirely around instances.  Now this is not to say I don't like PVE dungeon-like areas, but I think that you can get close to the same effect without an instance of the dungeon specific to your group. 

    Everquest 2 and WAR had instance free dungeons (when you exclude multiple instances due to population) and I think it worked out well.  Yes there was some competition, but it wasn't out of control and made you feel like you were still part of the game. 

    Instances are a good way to give you cutscenes and a story, but when I'm running a repeatable dungeon I feel like any sort of story is just tacked on and you certainly do not believe your part of the story, especially the 2nd, 3rd, ... , nth time you run the instance.  You can still tell a bit of a story in a non-instanced dungeon while keeping the feeling of being part of the world knowing that you are the only ones doing this at that moment. 

    The key is to simply design them so that a group can't just run through the instance avoiding mobs and simply run past a group in front of them, though you can not avoid a really good group possibly catching up to a crummy group, you can minimize it.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    I'm glad when games stick to their plans... there is absolutely no need for a game to try and please every type of gamer. You just end up with shallow gameplay on all points if you do that.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • SkillCosbySkillCosby Trenton, MIPosts: 684Member

    Endgame is more than just mindless PvP. It's about building cities, claiming player land, having rival player cities, socializing, and shaping the economy etc.

    The PvP is so deep that it can be experienced without really PvPing. This is a totally different workd when compared to the trash in WoW & SWTOR.

  • honourswordhonoursword MarsPosts: 82Member

    No I don't agree with instanced anything. The moment you start plucking players out of the gaming world than that is the start of it not being a world. I think many years ago instancing was necessary in order to handle the large number of players in one location. Times have moved on and I think that is no longer the case.

    Instancing in my view is far too restrictive and is the soul core of Theme Park gaming. In an instance everything is set the way the devs want it, true they maybe able to add a degree of variation but after doing the same instance 100 times, even these variations become the same.

    The only way to have a true open world and a truely unique experience is to get rid of instances. True other players can then interfere but that adds a sense of danger and change that you simply cannot predict. In an instance, after a while, everything is predicatable.

    There is also nothing stopping the devs creating really immersive and challenging open world PVE elements. If the world is vast enough and filled with enough content than there should be plenty to keep us all occupied.

    A big no to instances please.

  • Deron_BarakDeron_Barak Portland, ORPosts: 1,136Member

    I must disagree with instances in Archeage because I wouldn't recommend Archeage for people who just want to PvE.  There are currently and in the future going to be games more enjoyable for PvE unless AA plans to have PvE servers.  Let Archeage stay true to itself instead of being everything to everyone.  IMO

    Just not worth my time anymore.

  • OtomoxOtomox HoooooPosts: 303Member

    Before i rage again and get warned. I just simpley say no. For all of you themepark instance lovers leave this game plenty of mmorpgs have your themepark wishes.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Otomox

    Before i rage again and get warned. I just simpley say no. For all of you themepark instance lovers leave this game plenty of mmorpgs have your themepark wishes.

    yeah, I wanna camp against 20 other people for 12 hour respawn timer monsters!   YEAH!  Just like rare spawn monsters in UO and FFXI!  Whoot!  

    I mean everyone knows instancing ruins game play, it has no redeeming qualities like allowing people to experience a more personalized game play, or making it so people aren't forced to group.

    ...

    (the following was a satire)

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Otomox

    Before i rage again and get warned. I just simpley say no. For all of you themepark instance lovers leave this game plenty of mmorpgs have your themepark wishes.

    yeah, I wanna camp against 20 other people for 12 hour respawn timer monsters!   YEAH!  Just like rare spawn monsters in UO and FFXI!  Whoot!  

    I mean everyone knows instancing ruins game play, it has no redeeming qualities like allowing people to experience a more personalized game play, or making it so people aren't forced to group.

    ...

    (the following was a satire)

    Its an MMO you should have to deal with other players. Theres unlimited single player games and a ton of themepark co-op online games with a chat box for you. Instances really has no place in an MMORPG.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Instances are fail, one of the worse MMO inventions ever.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Instances like LDoN+ in EQ ruined the game, and saw even more of it in WoW, it was like what I disliked magnified, and stuff has rolled since then...I wish mmos would even do 50% open dungeons and such, all these instances kill mmos imo...It takes massive multiplayer right out of them.

     

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Instances are fail, one of the worse MMO inventions ever.

    its the future of online gaming my young friend, face it

  • DeathengerDeathenger atco, NJPosts: 462Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by wizyy

    There are plenty of world bosses, and in my opinion, ArcheAge tries to be a MAINLY PvP oriented game.

    If it tries to go down that road (instanced PvE), then it will never truly satisfy MMO "locusts" who will eat up the content too fast and whine about how the game isn't finished.

    The "endgame" in ArcheAge is PvP - and the whole concept revolves around it - sieges, naval warfare, and even the world bosses I think.

    The game tries to revive the competitivness in skill and strategy - not the competitivness in "who has the greatest purplez" - which MMORPG genre has come to after WoW.

    This

  • rounnerrounner CanberraPosts: 602Member Uncommon

    Yet another 'add what I want, it wont hurt anyone else' thread. As if they have infinite resources to be everything for everyone.

    OP consider if you arent closed minded yourself. Have you played any modern MMO's with public oriented PVE? Bringing up boss camping really shows you are living in the stone age of MMO's. If you gave a modern example like Rift, you'd know the greifing is on the PVE servers. There are some valid points for instanced PVE but please dont try to patronise when you are not displaying a great awareness of all the issues yourself.

     

2
Sign In or Register to comment.