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Swtor caters for a certain demographic.

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Comments

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    I don't really see how you could like this game if your burned out on WoW. Its really not that different. WoW has magic, ToR has the force. Both have robots, both have guys shooting with guns, Lightsaber behave exactly the same as normal swords etc... Not to mention that the fundamental gamemechanic is exactly the same.

    ^ agreed this game was not made in the slightest for anyone burt out on themepark MMOs and looking for something new...

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    I don't really see how you could like this game if your burned out on WoW. Its really not that different. WoW has magic, ToR has the force. Both have robots, both have guys shooting with guns, Lightsaber behave exactly the same as normal swords etc... Not to mention that the fundamental gamemechanic is exactly the same.

    ^ agreed this game was not made in the slightest for anyone burt out on themepark MMOs and looking for something new...

    The 1 million dollar question though is wether BW/EA where aware of that when they made the game ...

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    I don't really see how you could like this game if your burned out on WoW. Its really not that different. WoW has magic, ToR has the force. Both have robots, both have guys shooting with guns, Lightsaber behave exactly the same as normal swords etc... Not to mention that the fundamental gamemechanic is exactly the same.

    ^ agreed this game was not made in the slightest for anyone burt out on themepark MMOs and looking for something new...

    The 1 million dollar question though is wether BW/EA where aware of that when they made the game ...

    my money is on they figured all the wow players just wanted to play wow in the star wars universe and all they had to do was make a clone but didn't bank on people being so burnt out on the same old stuff...

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,710Member Uncommon

    All games 'caters' to a certain audiance.  Every sandbox game, every theme park game, every shooter, every tv commercial, every tv show, every movie...etc

     

    This is fundamental to getting your product out there and used.  You cannot build a game that caters to everyone.  It's silly to think they can.

     

    This site caters to a certain audiance.

     

    I have no problems with people stating SWTORs shortfalls at all (truth in lending, I like it), but I would like to read actual faults, not trumped up charges that don't make sense.

     

    obligatory:   IMO

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    All games 'caters' to a certain audiance.  Every sandbox game, every theme park game, every shooter, every tv commercial, every tv show, every movie...etc

     

    This is fundamental to getting your product out there and used.  You cannot build a game that caters to everyone.  It's silly to think they can.

     

    This site caters to a certain audiance.

     

    I have no problems with people stating SWTORs shortfalls at all (truth in lending, I like it), but I would like to read actual faults, not trumped up charges that don't make sense.

     

    obligatory:   IMO

    Well if we can put fairness aside ...

    The biggest shortfall of it is that the game lacks in every content related aspect due to it being just released. It doesn't have enough instances, raids, classes, BGs etc. Also many core features like addon/makro ability, better LFG tools, combat log and actual incentives for open world PvP are missing.

    There is also an itemization problem with companions since we have heavy armor wearing melee companions that require aim as stat(mostly because all strength based heavy armor is Jedi/Sith themed). They had to create an entire new weapon group for them, since the only weapons with aim are ranged weapons. This is further complicated because these weapons can not be upgraded since all hilts are strength based, and putting one of the aim based barrels into a staff makes no sense.

    Im only listing that last one because its a really big problem to fix for BW, they can't just change their requirement to strength because these guys would look like jedi/sith(which looks laughable on some of them --> oyzen), and they can't just introduce aim based hilts because they consider their players to have the intellect of a vegetable and be unable to make the right choice if there is more than one option available.

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,710Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    All games 'caters' to a certain audiance.  Every sandbox game, every theme park game, every shooter, every tv commercial, every tv show, every movie...etc

     

    This is fundamental to getting your product out there and used.  You cannot build a game that caters to everyone.  It's silly to think they can.

     

    This site caters to a certain audiance.

     

    I have no problems with people stating SWTORs shortfalls at all (truth in lending, I like it), but I would like to read actual faults, not trumped up charges that don't make sense.

     

    obligatory:   IMO

    Well if we can put fairness aside ...

    The biggest shortfall of it is that the game lacks in every content related aspect due to it being just released. It doesn't have enough instances, raids, classes, BGs etc. Also many core features like addon/makro ability, better LFG tools, combat log and actual incentives for open world PvP are missing.

    There is also an itemization problem with companions since we have heavy armor wearing melee companions that require aim as stat(mostly because all strength based heavy armor is Jedi/Sith themed). They had to create an entire new weapon group for them, since the only weapons with aim are ranged weapons. This is further complicated because these weapons can not be upgraded since all hilts are strength based, and putting one of the aim based barrels into a staff makes no sense.

    Im only listing that last one because its a really big problem to fix for BW, they can't just change their requirement to strength because these guys would look like jedi/sith(which looks laughable on some of them --> oyzen), and they can't just introduce aim based hilts because they consider their players to have the intellect of a vegetable and be unable to make the right choice if there is more than one option available.

    I don't disagree at all that there are areas they can fix.  My only bone of contention is making is sound like catering to a given demographic is some how a sinister/bad thing for SWTOR to do, when its the way just about anything that consumerrs buy.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I don't disagree at all that there are areas they can fix.  My only bone of contention is making is sound like catering to a given demographic is some how a sinister/bad thing for SWTOR to do, when its the way just about anything that consumerrs buy.

    I think the deragatory part part in it is catering to an actually very small demographic.

    I mean you could say apple and android are catering to a certain demographic and its a good thing. Nokia is also targeting a certain demographic, but its a bad thing for pretty much anyone involved from nokia shareholders to employees right to the people looking for actual alternative smartphones.

    Its like those awesome E-Cars with 600km range that can go over 100MPH. They cost so much money that only very few get built, which increases their price even more, which hampers sales and prevents the company wanting to built them to invest in improving them and reducing their price ... You need success to have success.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,616Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    my money is on they figured all the wow players just wanted to play wow in the star wars universe and all they had to do was make a clone but didn't bank on people being so burnt out on the same old stuff...

    The WOW comparison isn't even necessary. Despite the fact that Themepark Vs. Sandbox game design theories are hotly debated topics here, the vast majority of people--including most MMO players--have never even heard the terms.

     

    All that bean counters look at is subscription statistics and, despite how you or I may personally feel about the issue, Themeparks are the MMOs with large subscription numbers and have been so in recent history. That's where the "money people" are willing to invest, so that's what gets developed.

     

    Rift, WAR and LOTRO can all be called "WOW in ____" They all borrow ideas from each other and tweak them a bit. And don't kid yourself, the borrowing goes both ways (e.g. improved versions of WAR's achievements ended up in WOW and every other Themepark since.)

     

    That will be the way until a different type of MMO makes a breakthrough in the all mighty sub numbers. Until that happens the "money people" won't want to risk $100 million + in developing an open world with few class restrictions that isn't quest driven... which, btw, is just retro nostalgia crap: when we had all that (e.g. Asheron's Call) we wanted quests and auction houses. Open specs? We all know how that turns out: A powerful FOTM combo gets developed and that becomes the one class that rules them all (anyone remember Life Magic in early AC?) until everyone plays it... or it gets nerfed which just starts the min-maxing cycle all over again. Content updates? Please refer back to the min-maxing / nerf / min-maxing cycle above and maybe, if you were lucky, a new dungeon in a year...which was part of an expansion pack (SWTOR already added a new one after 1 month.)

     

    All of you "just-another-WOW-clone" bored MMOers out there: be careful what you wish for image

     

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by TruthXHurts

    From playing at my friends house I can safely say that SWTOR should have been called NGE 2.

    Which is still a better game than the POS PRECioUs. Just cause you dont like something doesnt mean everyone else feels the same. SWG couldnt even beat out my old favorite of EQ, and it had the SW name backing it long before MMOs went mainstream. Pretty sad if ya ask me. Even with a 7 yr head start, TOR has managed to carve out a nice amount of NA/EU subs in this WOW dominated genre. Amazing what happens when a company uses a brand name to sell a product that more folks are willing to buy.

     

    Sandboxers complain about the games they dont like, and because other folks are playing the games they enjoy. What next? I mean really. Themepark gamers understand you want more sandbox titles. Expecting us not to play our games, supporting games that you would enjoy, or changing our gaming style to make you guys happy is simply an exercise in futility if you ask me.

     

    BW has done pretty good by the PVE crowd that has enjoyed their prior games IMO. Need some more end game stuff from what I understand, and to work out the bugs. I am happy with them.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by TruthXHurts

    From playing at my friends house I can safely say that SWTOR should have been called NGE 2.

    Which is still a better game than the POS PRECioUs. Just cause you dont like something doesnt mean everyone else feels the same. SWG couldnt even beat out my old favorite of EQ, and it had the SW name backing it long before MMOs went mainstream. Pretty sad if ya ask me. Even with a 7 yr head start, TOR has managed to carve out a nice amount of NA/EU subs in this WOW dominated genre. Amazing what happens when a company uses a brand name to sell a product that more folks are willing to buy.

    Wow, now they carved out subs(carved out from what may i ask?). You know i still remember how Warhammer carved out subs, and how AoC carved out subs. If i was mean i would say this game is about as successful as Warhammer and AoC together.

  • WrenderWrender Conway, ARPosts: 1,386Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    First I think it is true that they are targetting mainly the non MMORPG crowd, this is evident with the lack of any innovative MMORPG features and even lack of basic MMO features such as group finding tool. They are again trying to do what WoW did, which is to try to bring in non MMORPGs to pay and subscribe to an MMORPG.

    However I very much doubt that they will retain 800k subs. I believe they already have lost  20-30% of the people who bought the box and next month it will likely be another 20-30% and due to lack of any compelling end game it will probably continue until it has less than 500k subs and my guess is that it will stabilizie around 3-400k after about 6 months.

    For me the reason is clear, once most people play through the class story lines which interest them there is not a whole alot of things to do, atleast not to warrant a sub fee.

    We have a group finding tool that works great, always has. The problem is people don't want to use it for some damn reason. As for 800k subs... .Uhh at last count as of today try 1.8 million and growing...

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    I don't really see how you could like this game if your burned out on WoW. Its really not that different. WoW has magic, ToR has the force. Both have robots, both have guys shooting with guns, Lightsaber behave exactly the same as normal swords etc... Not to mention that the fundamental gamemechanic is exactly the same.

    ^ agreed this game was not made in the slightest for anyone burt out on themepark MMOs and looking for something new...

    The 1 million dollar question though is wether BW/EA where aware of that when they made the game ...

    Not just aware, it was the maxime behind developing it. They stated in many interviews that they thought breaking away from the WoW model is stupid. And financially speaking, they were totally right. 

  • knapuknapu GifhornPosts: 131Member

    All i see are wow playing avarege joes that are to scared to leave wow for one month to try another game cos if this game would suck they would have to come back to wow and farm the gearfor the time they lost   and beg to get invited back to the guild again so they could get theyre raid place again ive played wow long enough 4-6 hours raid a day

    Now i dont play it and never will play wow, that is with every expension the same it gets boring after few years swtor gives me fun to play it for now but for how long i cant say so im very interesting how u all know .

     

    I am the punishment of God...
    If you had not committed great sins,
    God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you
    — Genghis Khan

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

     

    Never mind

     

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    Originally posted by Starwars001

    Swtor is obviosuly caters to averge gamer joe, who have never played mmo OR players who have burnt out on World of warcraft. This game is not for crazy players or shoudl i say hardcore gamers demographic.

     

    Basically what it boils down to 800k average joe subscribers, and ex wow vets. So swtor is successful financially theyve hit their target audience. :)

     

    Why do people always need to put everyone into these little categories, thus making people either this or that?

     

    People are different - It is arrogant, and downright stupidity to base your census on how reality is, based on internet feedback. There are LOTS of players who trancend any stereotype you put out. It does not matter. It's amazing how, people repeat the same nonsense over and over again. 

  • InshallaInshalla SydneyPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by Kalfer

    Originally posted by Starwars001

    Swtor is obviosuly caters to averge gamer joe, who have never played mmo OR players who have burnt out on World of warcraft. This game is not for crazy players or shoudl i say hardcore gamers demographic.

     

    Basically what it boils down to 800k average joe subscribers, and ex wow vets. So swtor is successful financially theyve hit their target audience. :)

     

    Why do people always need to put everyone into these little categories, thus making people either this or that?

     

    People are different - It is arrogant, and downright stupidity to base your census on how reality is, based on internet feedback. There are LOTS of players who trancend any stereotype you put out. It does not matter. It's amazing how, people repeat the same nonsense over and over again. 

    Good point. Theres only about 6.6 billion people in the world or something, to think that even half of these can be marginalised and narrowed into a certain demographic is utter stupidity. The only entities that would be capable of making assumptions based on these demographics would be massive corporations who spend millions of dollars to know what the consumer wants and spend millions and millions more to let those consumers know about their products.

    Oh but wait, some jackhole making 30k a year in the midwest can just come on the internet and start deciding who is supposed to be doing what. Guess those guys who own 99% of the wealth on the planet are really stupid compared to you.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    More of the typical trash you expect to see posted on this site.

    Nothing new to see here.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by Moaky07


    Originally posted by TruthXHurts

    From playing at my friends house I can safely say that SWTOR should have been called NGE 2.

    Which is still a better game than the POS PRECioUs. Just cause you dont like something doesnt mean everyone else feels the same. SWG couldnt even beat out my old favorite of EQ, and it had the SW name backing it long before MMOs went mainstream. Pretty sad if ya ask me. Even with a 7 yr head start, TOR has managed to carve out a nice amount of NA/EU subs in this WOW dominated genre. Amazing what happens when a company uses a brand name to sell a product that more folks are willing to buy.

    Wow, now they carved out subs(carved out from what may i ask?). You know i still remember how Warhammer carved out subs, and how AoC carved out subs. If i was mean i would say this game is about as successful as Warhammer and AoC together.

    TOR trumps the subs of any sandbox ever made......combined pretty much.

     

    I am sorry that  you enjoy a niche that cant support itself, but those in glass houses shouldnt be throwing rocks by talking about sub numbers in games.

     

     

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • KeoghKeogh Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,099Member

    And its not the 800,000 sub number that some moron pulled out of his backside.

     

    It is currently 1,700,000 active subs playing an average of 4 hours a day (4 hours because this demographic, have lives and responsibilities).

     

    "Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
    Bladezz (The Guild)

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    OP ...Absolutly.What gets me is players see a game with no end game and they still play...and worry about it whan they get there.Me....I found crafting is casual and flawed....and rvr  exists in name only.(how  a company can say there's Illum and have it be a hopeless mess...and thats ok with them ...is beyond my ability to understand.And lets throw a little same sex affection building in there for good measure.(shakes head).

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Originally posted by Rocketeer


    Originally posted by Moaky07


    Originally posted by TruthXHurts

    From playing at my friends house I can safely say that SWTOR should have been called NGE 2.

    Which is still a better game than the POS PRECioUs. Just cause you dont like something doesnt mean everyone else feels the same. SWG couldnt even beat out my old favorite of EQ, and it had the SW name backing it long before MMOs went mainstream. Pretty sad if ya ask me. Even with a 7 yr head start, TOR has managed to carve out a nice amount of NA/EU subs in this WOW dominated genre. Amazing what happens when a company uses a brand name to sell a product that more folks are willing to buy.

    Wow, now they carved out subs(carved out from what may i ask?). You know i still remember how Warhammer carved out subs, and how AoC carved out subs. If i was mean i would say this game is about as successful as Warhammer and AoC together.

    TOR trumps the subs of any sandbox ever made......combined pretty much.

     

    I am sorry that  you enjoy a niche that cant support itself, but those in glass houses shouldnt be throwing rocks by talking about sub numbers in games.

     

    So did Warhammer, AOC and Aoin. The only people with the right to parade the "success makes right" attitude around in my book are blizzard because they are the only ones that can take a piece of shit and turn it to gold. It might still be a piece of shit, but now its a piece of shit made of gold.

    Also my niche supports itself very well, thankyouverymuch. When swtor has been growing continually for 7+ years you can come back and talk smack to EvE players. But i doubt EA has ever operated any kind of game for that long without putting it on lifesupport and start milking it like crazy.

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member

    Originally posted by Keogh

    And its not the 800,000 sub number that some moron pulled out of his backside.

     

    It is currently 1,700,000 active subs playing an average of 4 hours a day (4 hours because this demographic, have lives and responsibilities).

     

     

    I fall into this demographic.... maybe that's why i'm not 50 yet and have so much to do in game.

     

    I get home at 6... spend time with family, play for 2-3 hours.. go to bed.   More time on weekends and you get your 4 hour average.   Back in the day I would play hardcore WoW and FFXI.

    I have a wife, one son, and another on the way.   SWTOR fits perfectly into my life with the mix of single player elements and mmo elements.  Love companions that make the content versatile depending on which type of companion I want to use.

     

    Even though I love SWTOR, the sub numbers are going to go down.  I think they will settle on 1 million in 6 months, and depending on the content patches, will determine with this game goes up or down in terms of trend.

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    im in that 4 hr demographic if that. Some days i get maybe 2 hrs a day to play right now.  I played maybe 5 hrs total yesterday as i played my 40 sith inquisitor and my 25 counselor who i play wiht my gf . 

    I dont skip the cinematics though. I think alot of those that rushed to 50 skiped them and while ill even admit at times some of them get old, I enjoy most of them

    That said this has always been the case. Tor is aimed at bioware game fans and themepark fans. Who love star wars. 

    It was never aimed at sandbox fans. And unfortunatly mmorpg is the site all those fans come that dont have any game to play now that galaxies is done

    so u get alot of hate cause its not there cup of tea or those that are just tired of mmo genre in genreal and themepark style games. 

    I do wish at end game crafting meant alto more. , id rather raids and stuff dropped rare gear look wise and not stat wise and that u could craft top level gear but other then that im loving tor. 

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by kalinis

    im in that 4 hr demographic if that. Some days i get maybe 2 hrs a day to play right now.  I played maybe 5 hrs total yesterday as i played my 40 sith inquisitor and my 25 counselor who i play wiht my gf . 

    I dont skip the cinematics though. I think alot of those that rushed to 50 skiped them and while ill even admit at times some of them get old, I enjoy most of them

    That said this has always been the case. Tor is aimed at bioware game fans and themepark fans. Who love star wars. 

    It was never aimed at sandbox fans. And unfortunatly mmorpg is the site all those fans come that dont have any game to play now that galaxies is done

    so u get alot of hate cause its not there cup of tea or those that are just tired of mmo genre in genreal and themepark style games. 

    I do wish at end game crafting meant alto more. , id rather raids and stuff dropped rare gear look wise and not stat wise and that u could craft top level gear but other then that im loving tor. 

    Whats up with the hate? I honestly don't see much of it, lots of wonky predictions and a bit of butthurt over some(missing) feature or another but hate? Personally i think most people speaking up against the game are not hating it, they simply find no enjoyment in it and are somewhat dissappointed about it. Not to mention worried we will now see 7 years of SWToR clones after just having pulled through 7 years of WoW clones.

    Rabid fanboys though ... yes they can get on your nerves big time, not saying i see much of those either though ... but it only takes a couple to drag a thread down.

     

    Oh and about the 4 hour figure, afaik that was per day/played not daily(its just to high for a average, it would require the average /played time to be 5 days per 30 days). For example if you don't play monday through friday, but 3 hours saturday and 5 hours sunday they would arrive at this figure. Mathematically speaking, 0 hour playsession/24h do not figure into the average. They take this statistic to figure out how much you play the game if you can play it. If you log in every weekend but never on weekdays thats not really telling them anything besides that there probably are RL reasons(but nothing that has any bearing on their buisness).

    They do this because they are interested in the delta, i.e. how much people play this week vs next week(especially when new content launches). Imagine a new patch comes out that adds a BG, a FP and a new operation. They would track how much longer people play, and more importantly, which part of the game they spend their time in(which is their ultimate goal), then they can focus on that kind of content more.

    I think it was a LotRO dev who once explained why they take these statistics and what they do with it, i think its pretty much the same for every MMO though, the basic principle is pretty sound.

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