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A successful SWTOR is bad for the industry

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  • PalladinPalladin Atlanta, GAPosts: 426Member

    I think SWTOR is at it's peak I don't think it will attract any more players than it has now and many have already started getting bored and are leaving.

     

    I think the number one biggest attraction for this game was slapping the Star Wars Logo  on it the lock in the fanatical cult following Star Wars has.

    AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition
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  • ArcheonusArcheonus Denton, TXPosts: 14Member

    Who knows?  People want a new environment to play in other than a fantasy setting.

     

    I, however, prefer the fantasy setting as indicated by the series below.

    Love Guild Wars? Final Fantasy? Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings?
    Here is an excerpt from the new series:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/79738399/Archeon-and-the-Virgo-Moon-Excerpt

  • RedKatanaRedKatana Philadelphia, PAPosts: 211Member

    This goes to the OP:

       If you don't like Star Wars and don't want people to play it then don't make Star Wars threads....either your thread is good or bad for Star Wars you are pretty much advertising it. I'm tired of SWTOR threads floating all around the forum.

  • Odinthedark1Odinthedark1 Linden, NJPosts: 330Member

    All of you whining about this post, he never said SWTOR was a bad game, he simply stated that by it being a succes ur stuck with clones, even if its good it will eventually get boring, what then? all ur left to do is move to another clone...thats the point hes trying to convey and i fully agree, its about time they started using their own imaginations to make games rather thenbasing it of another...i can safely say ive conquered WoW in these past 4 years and now have an 85 of each class, it may be fun but its lost its flare y'know, its about time for sumthin new...and yet wherever i look the games will be WoW clones, ill spend a month if that playing them and eventually ending up straight back to WoW....what the industry needs is a game to steal us away and not temporarily give us a vacation from the big tycoons known as rift, WoW, and swtor.

  • DayzonDayzon maple groev, MNPosts: 55Member

    I'm not worried. Investors know  copycats will never outperform the originals.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by Enosh

    well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

    the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

    ... and people won't buy his hotdogs when his hotdogs suck and three giants are making awesome handburgers as we speak.  Anyway, competition of SWTOR vs Rift vs WOW is a big win for MMO players, because we are going to see three game companies go to war with each other in order to win us over.  When that happens, gamers end up with better products.

    Pandaria is going to be a great expansion.  Why?  Because it HAS TO BE!  SWTOR's first expansion will fix a ton of flaws and add a lot of high quality features.  Why?  Because Pandaria won't suck, so they have to step it up.  Trion will need to maintain pace and keep churning out good content.... again, because they have to.

     

     

    I would *love* to see a triple A sandbox come out and compete with Minecraft though, because not everybody loves block pushing, and hey... Sandboxes do need to step it up quite a bit, or they will die...

     

    But OP, you are sadly mistaken if you think that a sudden "miraculous" failure of SWTOR will do anything for the industry except give Trion and Blizzard more breathing room. 

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  • nachofootnachofoot Kennesaw, GAPosts: 119Member

    Originally posted by Dredphyre

    Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

     

    "A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

    "A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

    "A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

     

     

    This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

     

     

     

    No...

     

    What the op is saying is more like:

    "A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

    "A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

    "A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by nachofoot

    Originally posted by Dredphyre

    Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

     

    "A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

    "A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

    "A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

     

     

    This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

     

     

     

    No...

     

    What the op is saying is more like:

    "A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

    "A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

    "A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

    Not seeing the bank bailout connection.  The rest of it, I totally understand the ideas, but it has proven largely untrue.  Both gas guzzlers and hybrid cars are growing in popularity these days.  Rift and Minecraft both released in proximity to each other, and both did quite well.  Dredphyre's post makes sense.  The success of one type of game does not inherently block out other types of games from succeeding.  If it did, the only games any of us would be playing right now would be Super Mario Bros 3 clones.

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  • SanisarSanisar birmingham, ALPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by nachofoot


    Originally posted by Dredphyre

    Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

     

    "A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

    "A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

    "A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

     

     

    This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

     

     

     

    No...

     

    What the op is saying is more like:

    "A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

    "A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

    "A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

    Not seeing the bank bailout connection.  The rest of it, I totally understand the ideas, but it has proven largely untrue.  Both gas guzzlers and hybrid cars are growing in popularity these days.  Rift and Minecraft both released in proximity to each other, and both did quite well.  Dredphyre's post makes sense.  The success of one type of game does not inherently block out other types of games from succeeding.  If it did, the only games any of us would be playing right now would be Super Mario Bros 3 clones.

    The point you are missing is that MMOs cost tens if not hundred of millions of dollars to develop.  If Nintendo games cost that much to develop then there would have been like 2 of them and the second would have been a Mario clone.

    It's not about what the market will bear, it's about what investors feel confident in investing in.  Currently the only MMO's that can reap anywhere near the level of funding to produce any semblance of quality are themepark clones.  The rational behind this is twofold: investors don't truly understand the market or its' potential and sandbox games are percieved to be more likely to fail (even thought the vast majority of themepark clones also fail).

    The issue/concern of the OP is highly relevant.  If the analogies are confusing to you then don't use them.  The MMO market is not directly comparable to the vast majority of other markets.

  • omomeomome college station, TXPosts: 203Member

    EvE is the WoW of sandboxes, and investors don't want to dabble in that revenue bracket.

    That is kinda dumb, but its the way it is nowadays.

    When George Lucas was studying film in college, so I hear, movie studios spread out their portfolios. They had 'A' movies, 'B' movies and 'C' movies. Each category assigned a specific budget. A film called 'Easy Rider' (Dennis Hopper) was a 'C' budget movie that almost made 'A' budget type of earnings in 1969 (thereabouts) and after that all of Hollywood was looking for another low budget film with high return....and Lucas came along with American Grafitti, which was close to the same thing, but very wholesome at the same time...

    Unfortunately that same guy killed the diversification of the major studios. After Star Wars, all the studios in hollywood wanted nothing but blockbusters, and the days of Hollywood funding smaller grass-root projects came to an end.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    Originally posted by Sanisar

    It's not about what the market will bear, it's about what investors feel confident in investing in.  Currently the only MMO's that can reap anywhere near the level of funding to produce any semblance of quality are themepark clones.  The rational behind this is twofold: investors don't truly understand the market or its' potential and sandbox games are percieved to be more likely to fail (even thought the vast majority of themepark clones also fail).

    I don't think it's that sandbox games are more likely to fail, I doubt the whole themepark and sandbox thing even comes up in the developer board room, they'd be too busy looking at numbers to realise the difference. I think most developers go themepark because it's very easy to tell a player where they need to be at a certain time. With a sandbox you have to consider so many other things, but a themepark is basically a linear path that can be easily created. It all boils down to developer laziness and the need to create a quick income.

  • ChromeBallzChromeBallz LeidenPosts: 287Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Loke666
    Just relax, TOR is not a bad game but I kinda doubt that it will keep those players for more than a few months the way it is made.

    I've been playing for a month, i got two characters to 16 and 18 so far. I don't see myself quitting anytime soon.

    People who race to 50 and have 12 hours a day to spare to play aren't the main audience of this game ;p

    Playing: EVE, TERA, BDO
    Played (more than 1 month): WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
    Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus

  • omomeomome college station, TXPosts: 203Member

    Originally posted by ChromeBallz

     




    Originally posted by Loke666

    Just relax, TOR is not a bad game but I kinda doubt that it will keep those players for more than a few months the way it is made.



     

    I've been playing for a month, i got two characters to 16 and 18 so far. I don't see myself quitting anytime soon.

    People who race to 50 and have 12 hours a day to spare to play aren't the main audience of this game ;p

    Wait, what? Are you saying someone might be able to make money off a game that doesn't require its players to play 10-12 hours a day? Poppycock!

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Originally posted by Sanisar

    It's not about what the market will bear, it's about what investors feel confident in investing in.  Currently the only MMO's that can reap anywhere near the level of funding to produce any semblance of quality are themepark clones.  The rational behind this is twofold: investors don't truly understand the market or its' potential and sandbox games are percieved to be more likely to fail (even thought the vast majority of themepark clones also fail).

    I don't think it's that sandbox games are more likely to fail, I doubt the whole themepark and sandbox thing even comes up in the developer board room, they'd be too busy looking at numbers to realise the difference. I think most developers go themepark because it's very easy to tell a player where they need to be at a certain time. With a sandbox you have to consider so many other things, but a themepark is basically a linear path that can be easily created. It all boils down to developer laziness and the need to create a quick income.

    That's what I was thinking.  No matter what a game costs, if someone wants to do it bad enough, it will get done.  Investors do not sit there and say "Herp derp, we can't develop that because it's a sandbox."  More likely they say "Control our product.  We want predictable sales."  It was that way before SWTOR and will be that way forever pretty much.  So no, in spite of the existence of an idea that investors like to copy things, the conceptual ideas open to the MMO genre have not changed.

    And yes, there are companies and investors that will always want to make crappy clones of the top games, and they won't be cloning sandboxes any time soon.  If the OP is implying that these garbage clones will somehow push forward the evolution of the subgenre from which they hail, I just disagree.  Crap clones are just that... CRAP!

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  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by omome

    Originally posted by ChromeBallz

     




    Originally posted by Loke666

    Just relax, TOR is not a bad game but I kinda doubt that it will keep those players for more than a few months the way it is made.



     

    I've been playing for a month, i got two characters to 16 and 18 so far. I don't see myself quitting anytime soon.

    People who race to 50 and have 12 hours a day to spare to play aren't the main audience of this game ;p

    Wait, what? Are you saying someone might be able to make money off a game that doesn't require its players to play 10-12 hours a day? Poppycock!

    No game requires you to play 10-12 hours per day, if a gamer feels the need to play that, to reach some level cap or whatever, then that is partly his problem. Ofcourse it may be also that the game is crappy designed so all the fun is at level cap but then that is the issue and not slow leveing.

    However if you have played for a month and only got your SW:TOR character to 16 and 18 then you might simply not have any spare time for gaming because it takes maybe 10-15 hours to do that and if you only have that much time to play per month then you really should be looking at other hobbies rather than to say that the leveling needs to be faster.

    For sure the 12 hours/day people are not the main audience for MMORPGS but neither are the 10-15 hours/month people.

  • ChromeBallzChromeBallz LeidenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    [quote]Originally posted by Yamota
    However if you have played for a month and only got your SW:TOR character to 16 and 18 then you might simply not have any spare time for gaming because it takes maybe 10-15 hours to do that and if you only have that much time to play per month then you really should be looking at other hobbies rather than to say that the leveling needs to be faster.
    For sure the 12 hours/day people are not the main audience for MMORPGS but neither are the 10-15 hours/month people.
    [/b][/quote]

    Doing some roleplay on the side, enjoying the scenery, exploring for those datacrons without looking up where they are, etc....

    I've spent at least 5-10 hours a week on the game, which is quite a lot to be honest if you have a busy working life otherwise. The other mmo's i play are either f2p and don't require me to be online a lot to get my money's worth, or i keep up that skill training in the one other subscription mmo.... ;p

    Getting 30-40 hours worth of game time in a month and not even having seen a small part of the whole is pretty good. A lot of people just rush through the levelling and ignore everything else related to the game, which is why they start complaining about a lack of content. They look up where to find everything and what they need to do to get certain rewards, etc - That's like playing a game with the walkthrough guide in hand the first time you play it. Sort of counter productive. Of course it's boring if you keep referring to your almighty encyclopedia :)

    I'm pretty sure the 10-12 hours a day audience is not the target of TOR, however, the 10-15 hour a month audience is. Honestly? You can either pay 13 bucks for a mediocore movie and bad popcorn, 4 beers at a seedy bar or even buy a dvd which might last you for 2 hours before having seen it all. Paying 13 bucks and getting 15 hours worth of gametime out of it is pretty damn good to be honest, paying 50 bucks even. If you manage to get in 200 hours of game time in a month for 50 bucks and only THEN start to complain about a lack of content.... That's not really the game's fault is it?

    Also, stating that "you need so many hours spare time to enjoy gaming" is a bit odd if you ask me. That reinforces the notion that people think gaming requires a lot of time investment, which is simply not true.

    Playing: EVE, TERA, BDO
    Played (more than 1 month): WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
    Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ChromeBallz

    [quote]Originally posted by Yamota

    However if you have played for a month and only got your SW:TOR character to 16 and 18 then you might simply not have any spare time for gaming because it takes maybe 10-15 hours to do that and if you only have that much time to play per month then you really should be looking at other hobbies rather than to say that the leveling needs to be faster.

    For sure the 12 hours/day people are not the main audience for MMORPGS but neither are the 10-15 hours/month people.

    [/b][/quote]

    Doing some roleplay on the side, enjoying the scenery, exploring for those datacrons without looking up where they are, etc....

    I've spent at least 5-10 hours a week on the game, which is quite a lot to be honest if you have a busy working life otherwise. The other mmo's i play are either f2p and don't require me to be online a lot to get my money's worth, or i keep up that skill training in the one other subscription mmo.... ;p

    Getting 30-40 hours worth of game time in a month and not even having seen a small part of the whole is pretty good. A lot of people just rush through the levelling and ignore everything else related to the game, which is why they start complaining about a lack of content. They look up where to find everything and what they need to do to get certain rewards, etc - That's like playing a game with the walkthrough guide in hand the first time you play it. Sort of counter productive. Of course it's boring if you keep referring to your almighty encyclopedia :)

    I'm pretty sure the 10-12 hours a day audience is not the target of TOR, however, the 10-15 hour a month audience is. Honestly? You can either pay 13 bucks for a mediocore movie and bad popcorn, 4 beers at a seedy bar or even buy a dvd which might last you for 2 hours before having seen it all. Paying 13 bucks and getting 15 hours worth of gametime out of it is pretty damn good to be honest, paying 50 bucks even. If you manage to get in 200 hours of game time in a month for 50 bucks and only THEN start to complain about a lack of content.... That's not really the game's fault is it?

    Also, stating that "you need so many hours spare time to enjoy gaming" is a bit odd if you ask me. That reinforces the notion that people think gaming requires a lot of time investment, which is simply not true.

    $15 is worth it for some MMOs, but not all, and certainly not for SWTOR atm. There is just simply not enough stuff in the game, other than levelling. Other MMos have plenty of side attractions/things to take up your time. They also have things like datacrons to explore and find too, plus a load of other things as well.

    You can get plenty more fun out of Star Trek Online (STO) than SWTOR and that is now free, unless you do want to bomb through and have all the best PVP gear immediately then you will have to pay, but otherwise if you are patient you can have it all without paying a penny.

  • EnoshEnosh SulinciPosts: 140Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    $15 is worth it for some MMOs, but not all, and certainly not for SWTOR atm I think. There is just simply not enough stuff in the game, other than levelling I think. Other MMos have plenty of side attractions/things to take up your time. They also have things like datacrons to explore and find too, plus a load of other things as well.

    You can get plenty more fun out of Star Trek Online (STO) than SWTOR and that is now free in my oppinion, unless you do want to bomb through and have all the best PVP gear immediately then you will have to pay, but otherwise if you are patient you can have it all without paying a penny.

    there, fixed that post for you

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by zakiyawow

    Originally posted by lizardbones
     


    Originally posted by zakiyawow
    I like the old style point and click adventure games. sure they are some small companies making them and in a very slow pace while FPS game coming out left and right. 
    Should I blame people who likes FPS game for lack of adventure game ? 



    You should also complain about companies not having the guts to put out a point and click adventure game.

    ** edit **
    On a related note (sort of) the Nancy Drew series of adventures is still getting new additions on a fairly regular basis.

    ** edit edit **
    You can buy them on Steam.

     


    Nancy Drew game sucks lol I am talking about Quality like Monkey island ( Earlier one, the new one is barely ok ), Loom, King's Quest, Days of the tentacle..etc :) 
    Edit :
    Then again, it would be like what OP is saying. Now all I ( and other people who love those quality adventure games ) can play is this silly Nancy Drew crap. 
    Should I scream at people who buy them ? Also at companies that do not invest money to make more because its a small market ? At gamers who favors RTS, FPS and other games which sells more?



    Yes, apparently. I'm not sure where people expect conversations like that to go though. "You stupid COMPANIES made something you like and you players BOUGHT IT you idiots! Why would either of you do such a DUMB thing!?!?" I'm not sure why either party in that transaction would or should do something other than what they did.




    Off Topic, but King's Quest, Space Quest, Police Quest, etc. are on sale on GoG.com. Keep in mind when ordering that if you're in the U.S. (and probably Canada) there's a charge for overseas orders - for my last order, it was 30 cents for a $10 game.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GylfiGylfi LlandlowPosts: 660Member

    Originally posted by Skuz

    This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.

    Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...

    Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...

    Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...

    The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.

    what's wrong with you guys, how can you not get such a simple thing?

    TOR is an MMO that's entirely anti-innovation, anti-risk taking and entirely revolves around a SOLO experience. Is that clear?

    If a MMO which central idea is to not innovate, to not give a real virtual world(instead it's all instanced, it's more similar to neverwinter nights), and a game like this is SUCCESFUL, then we will never see innovation, PvP, open-world simulation.

    If a no-innovation policy is succesful, then creativity DIES.

    If to be succesful you can just recycle WoW, why should a developer go and think "hey what if we make a virtual online world where there's no level or skill progression at all, and the characters only have to earn money to live(or they die) like uuuh by solving crimes, and they have their office/house they can customize, and they compete against other players who write the case and are the criminals?" If WoW clones succeed, we'll never see this kind of games

  • DracillDracill Miami, FLPosts: 158Member
    WoW you missed at least half the post point.

    I will try to be more clear and use caps like you. Sorry for the use of the caps in advance.

    I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT. I WILL PLAY AND PLAY THE GAMES I WANT, WHEN I WANT AND THE WAY I WANT
  • RavenRaven LondonPosts: 1,974Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Gylfi

    Originally posted by Skuz

    This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.

    Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...

    Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...

    Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...

    The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.

    what's wrong with you guys, how can you not get such a simple thing?

    TOR is an MMO that's entirely anti-innovation, anti-risk taking and entirely revolves around a SOLO experience. Is that clear?

    If a MMO which central idea is to not innovate, to not give a real virtual world(instead it's all instanced, it's more similar to neverwinter nights), and a game like this is SUCCESFUL, then we will never see innovation, PvP, open-world simulation.

    If a no-innovation policy is succesful, then creativity DIES.

     

    Doesnt stop other ppl to want to top that success, when ppl do the so called "WoW clones" they dont want it to just do well, they want it to be more successful that is the thing you dont understand, you make it sound like there is some concrete mesuring that developers use, and that TOR is 100 and when they are discussing what to do to make the game successful if gets to 100 and they say "Hold on the press boys we have reached 100 innovations that is how its going to be".

    No, its a completely flawed concept that you are trying to push onto other people, someone else can come along and make much better decisions when they aim their MMO to be successful, it is not conditioned by another MMO. It doesnt stop other companies from shurning out your perfect sandbox MMO or whatever in YOUR mind is considered innovative.

    image

  • SkuzSkuz WorcesterPosts: 1,034Member Uncommon

     


    Originally posted by Gylfi

    Originally posted by Skuz

    This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.

    Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...

    Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...

    Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...

    The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.

    what's wrong with you guys, how can you not get such a simple thing?

    TOR is an MMO that's entirely anti-innovation, anti-risk taking and entirely revolves around a SOLO experience. Is that clear?

    If a MMO which central idea is to not innovate, to not give a real virtual world(instead it's all instanced, it's more similar to neverwinter nights), and a game like this is SUCCESFUL, then we will never see innovation, PvP, open-world simulation.

    If a no-innovation policy is succesful, then creativity DIES.

    I disagree with you, I understand your reasoning but I respectfully do not think it is an applicable way of thinking.

    In every other form of entertainment your logic/reasoning breaks down entirely & it will in this medium, gaming is very young, it has had it's first "giant" the market is still in it's infancy as a mass-medium & I honestly feel it will continue to grow & expand further into the mainstream & that further "giants" will eventually emerge, they may not be another WoW in the west, it may become like the pop-charts & how they evolved from the 50's onwards, it got broken up as people's tastes diverged.

    But to say that 1 game holds all the others back is just not looking at the evidence at all the other media, you may earnestly believe that videogaming is somehow special& unique because of how invested into it you are, but I posi that it is no different to other media, if anything as it encompasses all of the other media types in one form or another it is even more likely to follow trends in other media.

    Gaming is not the niche it once was, it's passing through another phase of it's existence, the old is giving way to the new and so it will need to be thought of in adapting & evolving ways, don't get stuck in a dogma.

  • GylfiGylfi LlandlowPosts: 660Member

    Originally posted by rav3n2

    Originally posted by Gylfi


    Originally posted by Skuz

    This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.

    Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...

    Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...

    Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...

    The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.

    what's wrong with you guys, how can you not get such a simple thing?

    TOR is an MMO that's entirely anti-innovation, anti-risk taking and entirely revolves around a SOLO experience. Is that clear?

    If a MMO which central idea is to not innovate, to not give a real virtual world(instead it's all instanced, it's more similar to neverwinter nights), and a game like this is SUCCESFUL, then we will never see innovation, PvP, open-world simulation.

    If a no-innovation policy is succesful, then creativity DIES.

     

    Doesnt stop other ppl to want to top that success, when ppl do the so called "WoW clones" they dont want it to just do well, they want it to be more successful that is the thing you dont understand, you make it sound like there is some concrete mesuring that developers use, and that TOR is 100 and when they are discussing what to do to make the game successful if gets to 100 and they say "Hold on the press boys we have reached 100 innovations that is how its going to be".

    No, its a completely flawed concept that you are trying to push onto other people, someone else can come along and make much better decisions when they aim their MMO to be successful, it is not conditioned by another MMO. It doesnt stop other companies from shurning out your perfect sandbox MMO or whatever in YOUR mind is considered innovative.

    heh i wish the world was all cheeries and blossoms like you picture it, a utopical world where creativity is supposed to be good business, and like it's encouraged and financed because it's good for the evolution of human compassion.

    those who make decisions(those who invest) see that WoW is the most succesful game, so they tell developers to copy and simplify it, because the simpler it is the more people will it cater to. It's easy as that. Every MMO since WoW has been like that, it shows this simple parable that can maybe be drawn into a graph. They are simpler and simpler games that copy the same WoW basis. It's just a progressive dumbing down. That's the law of marketing, deal with it.

    People should be insane, when they see a succesful game, to go try and think up a new idea and concept of virtual world from zero. When such risk-taking initiative is like a black hole, you dunno what may happen, it's completely a jump in the blank. as long as "doing the safe thing" is more convenient, why should people experiment?

    As long as your home is source of all you could ever need, why should you go explore new worlds?

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Enosh

    Originally posted by superniceguy



    $15 is worth it for some MMOs, but not all, and certainly not for SWTOR atm. There is just simply not enough stuff in the game, other than levelling I think. Other MMos have plenty of side attractions/things to take up your time. They also have things like datacrons to explore and find too, plus a load of other things as well.

    You can get plenty more fun out of Star Trek Online (STO) than SWTOR and that is now free in my oppinion, unless you do want to bomb through and have all the best PVP gear immediately then you will have to pay, but otherwise if you are patient you can have it all without paying a penny.

    there, fixed that post for you

    No it is definately not worrth it ATM

    I do not think it is not worth it, I know it is not worth it ATM.

    SWTOR is just too lacking to be worth it. Hopefully they will add more and make it more worthwhile, but they have not shown anything yet that is coming that is worthwhile, except stuff which is the equivalent of DLC stuff for an Xbox 360 game. At least with DLC you can choose to get it, but with a monthly fee you are forced to pay for it.

     

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