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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Good Cop, Bad Cop – SWTOR

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Comments

  • MoiraeMoirae New Orleans, LAPosts: 2,746Member Uncommon

    Suzie did NOT win this one. Sorry. I happen to love this game. And so do alot of other people. 

     

    As for bugs.. it's an MMO, what did you expect? 

     

    Bioware never said they were rewriting the genre. What they are offering is engrossing and interesting gameplay. For the first time ever, I actually care what goes on in the virtual world around me. And I love the choices during conversations (pay attention, not all choices are good, light, and neutral, some are just different levels of light or different levels of dark). 

     

    No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member


    Originally posted by Moirae
    Suzie did NOT win this one. Sorry. I happen to love this game. And so do alot of other people. 
     
    As for bugs.. it's an MMO, what did you expect? 
     
    Bioware never said they were rewriting the genre. What they are offering is engrossing and interesting gameplay. For the first time ever, I actually care what goes on in the virtual world around me. And I love the choices during conversations (pay attention, not all choices are good, light, and neutral, some are just different levels of light or different levels of dark). 
     
    No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.


    I think when you got Good Cop's side kinda agreeing with Bad Cop's on certain aspects of the game, it doesn't really look good for Good Cop. Suzie almost won hands down but its in the game itself and it kind of shows based on the commentary that the game is purely of Star Wars fans. Its brand new now, but wait until Guild Wars 2, Secret World, Diablo 3 and other more innovative attempts at video games come about. This game will quickly subside into a mediocrity.


    And really that's almost the risk you run by playing it too safe. While other people out there are taking risks, trying out new things, if you're going to stick too close to what has worked in the past (and a few years past, not even recently because there's many qualms in SWTOR I have that I had with WoW pre-Cataclysm class mechanic changes etc., but retained in this game i.e. buying each Skill with their Skill rank, grey items, near same craft system as any other game, same type of instanced PvP etc.). Even the combat system isn't changed from what, 7 years ago, simple presses of hotkeys etc. Frankly I'm tired of the large amount of moves you do acquire and don't use because you're specifically talent specced for Move A, B, C and D only. Couldn't even provide a different progression system outside of the talent trees that everyone loves to abuse aside from flipping it upside down and confusing me for 5 minutes.


    Ultimately I agree with Suzie, voice acting is great at first, but after so much start to feel like a cheap trick. It does add more flavor then lets say quest text but like Adam even said, it doesn't make any leaps in any direction. I can see people putting a little more weight on voice acting in the future and working on their story (hire better writers and designers?) but this game has little much to offer that hasn't been done 5,6,7 years ago which IMO is rather pathetic especially for someone with a reputation as good as Bioware's.

  • NameWasTakenNameWasTaken Where Osama isPosts: 132Member

    I wouldn't say I'm disappointed... more like out right BORED with the game! Yet another MMORPG click to target button masher. I'm off to play something a little more interesting, like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

     



    Originally posted by Moirae
    No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.

     

    Which they had been working for nearly a year... so yeah...
     

    Also Adam you list the number one thing wrong wrong with the MMO Genre.
    "This is a genre based primarily on one thing: levelling up. You doll the experience up, give it a nice shade of lipstick, add in a sparkler or two to take the attention of slightly "simpler" people, but it is still the same old experience: create a character, skill to the max level, have a crisis about what you are doing with your life, and repeat."

    Not until the wave of crappy WoW clones did I ever get the feeling that an MMO was all about leveling up to max. In EQ, SWG, and yes even WoW I would go places not because I had to or that there was a quest there but because I wanted to see what was there, or do something outside of questing and grinding. But not ONCE in SWTOR did I ever do that, because there wasn't anything really interesting to find.

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • KalmarthKalmarth Lake Havasu City, AZPosts: 443Member

    So much hate towards a game, I guess alot of people were really hoping this was going to be the most amazing thing on Earth and now feel burnt.

    I'm loving playing ToR, moving slowly through the story, playing with Friends and my wife, lots and lots of fun.

    Is it any of the buzz words, Innovative, mold breaking, WoW killer, probably not, is it fun, yep.

    Haters got to hate.

    I'm looking forward to seeing the game progress and become something amazing, like WoW did and EQ and many many other games, sure it took time but I still hear people tell storys of EQ the eairly days or Vanilla WoW.

     

  • Rampage9799Rampage9799 virginia beach, VAPosts: 34Member

    Suzie all games arent for everyone , and this one seems like its not your "cup of tea". Its ok you dont have to like it.

    Also as far as Companion AI goes , you have the ability to control your "pet" rather well. I use M4 with my DPS Commando and i almost never have problems.

    And on the voice over quests they give you an option to spacebar thru the whole thing so really whats there to complain about in that situation?

    I just got to 41 and havent played any illium pvp battles but i looking foward to them.

     

    this game is fun and still has the "new car smell" to it. So far im really impressed and ive played almost every big MMO that has come out since 98' (including a few korean ones).

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    If you read the pro-TOR POV as being sarcastic, which is a very, very easy shift to make, then the entire peice is brilliant. Economics may have forced many gaming sites to slap high ratings numbers on this mediocre game, but when you actually ready what is said, it's easy to see that many of the writers actually understand the reality of TOR.

    The key is in the very first point/counterpoint about morality of character actions in an MMO. Yeah, Bioware gives us their morality choices as part of a non-branching story, with dark side or light side points as a reward for following the proper script. However, my 100% light side Jedi is still a Mass Murderer, with most quests offering no alternative path to "slaughter 10 thugs, or murder 12 Empirial sympathizers, just because".

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • KeoghKeogh Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,099Member

    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

     

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

     

    Why do the people that dislike this game insist on holding on to this vitriolic, foaming at the mouth rage, like a rabid pit bull?

     

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

     

    "Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
    Bladezz (The Guild)

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    I did not find this article enlightenting or insightful, but at least it's well written.  Then again, I can't expect to be enlightened by someone who thinks the RMT AH in Diablo 3 will even be usable by someone who isn't a gold farmer.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by Kalmarth

    So much hate towards a game, I guess alot of people were really hoping this was going to be the most amazing thing on Earth and now feel burnt.

    It's true. A lot of people, myself included, have been really looking forward to not only a good Star Wars MMO but also a BioWare MMO. BioWare + Star Wars has been a winning formula in the past, right? Knights of the Old Republic is a great game, even by today's standards.

    Personally, I feel let down. The game, with the exception of voice overs, is too generic, too uninspiring and way too linear. I kid you not, SWTOR made me miss WoW and it actually led me to resubscribe. Something I thought that I would never do.

    - No cool races. We basically have different color humans.

    - Completely static worlds.I hate to bring up WoW but the phasing that it uses goes a long way to visually present you with quest progression. It's not even that. There are no day/night cycles. The mobs in SWTOR just kind of hang out in one spot waiting for you to slaughter them. The animals just stand there and never interact with one another. Going back to my WoW example, I was in Hyjal the other day doing one of those Firelands Invaision dailies and I noticed that as I was fighting a mob, it was being hit with rocks off the screen. So I pan around, and it's a little squirrel throwing stuff at the mob I was fighting. I have played WoW on and off since it was launched and I thought that I saw and heard it all, when it comes to that game, but when I saw that little squirrel helping me fight off one of the invaders, I thought to myself "Wow, that is fucking cool!"

    - The absolute reliance on companions, who are nothing more than glorified pets that also craft for you, makes me feel weak. My highest character in SWTOR is a level 43 sith sorcerer. He has a "Lord" title. He is suppose to be one of the strongest sith in the empire... and he gets his butt handed to him by some random space pirate boss if Khem Val in not there to get punched in the face.

    - PvP is a complete clusterfuck. There is also no meaningful world PvP, even on PvP servers. Farming for PvP gear is a complete nightmare.

    - Choice is nothing but an illusion. Yes, you have about 3 different ways to reply to an NPC but they all lead to the same outcome, unless you refuse the quest. Going back to that "mass murderer" point from the article, 99% of the time, you cannot resolve the mission peacefully. If the NPC tells you that you have to save the moisture farm from the sand people, you can't go reason with them. No matter what you choose you will still have to kill them. The only thing that you really have a choice in is what alignment gear you can get.

    - The game is filled with "kill x" quests. I remember a developer interview a while ago, before the game launched claiming that there are almost no "kill x" quests. The very first thing you do is a "kill x" quest when you start the game! And don't even get me started on the bonus objectives. Stage 1: kill 25 Black Sun thugs. Stage 2: kill 40 Black Sun thugs. Stage 3: click on 6 glowies. Stage 4: kill the Black Sun thug boss

    - Traveling between planets is an absolute nightmare! Run to the spaceport. Run to the elvator. Click on the button. Load into the hangar. Run to your ship. Click on the door. Load into your ship. Run to the navigation console. Listen to that stupid droid. Pick your destination. Run back to the door. Listen to that stupid droid. Click on the door. Load into the hangar. Run to the elevator. Click on the button. Load into the spaceport. Run outside.

    - The UI is a travesty. I'm not even going to say anything about addons but not only can you not move it around and resize it, you can't even have more than 2 windows open at the same time.

    I'm not even bringing up bugs, I expect an MMO to be buggy at release but there are a lot of design issues that make me wonder if the people working on the game actually bothered to check out other MMOs. I mean, BioWare pretty much declared their love for WoW and stated that their mission was to make SWTOR similar. But in all of their years of development, how hard was it to create a WoW account, play the game and see what makes WoW a good MMO?

    Sorry for the rant but this game really, really, really disappointed me.

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  • StoneRoses2StoneRoses2 Seattle, WAPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by Keogh

    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

     

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

     

    Why do the people that dislike this game insist on holding on to this vitriolic, foaming at the mouth rage, like a rabid pit bull?

     

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

     

    Perfect perfect! Thank you!

    Keep in mind even the old mmos lost their flare, but people will not admit that that. They want to keep you thinking that it was there all along. Why every fucking MMO now is like dragging around a dead fucking horse waling at it because it's not like AO, UO, EQ, or DAOC.

    I can't wait to see the responses for GW2, TSW, Archage, Tera. It will never be enough or the end.

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member



    Originally posted by Keogh

    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation?? Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before. And as the editor pointed out, apart from the main story quest, the voiceovers bring nothing new and fail to hide the boring fedex and kill quests.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Linear progression, static NPC's, kill quests, stale instanced pvp, limited skill trees, class pidgeon holing, lifeless endgame consisting gear gear/dungeon grinding blah blah blah.

    Sp please to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.


     

  • StoneRoses2StoneRoses2 Seattle, WAPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by osc8r



    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by StoneRoses

    Originally posted by osc8r




    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

    SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

    image

  • hikariukhikariuk MaldonPosts: 34Member

    Conversation choices that have no semblance to what is actually said by the character are something of a tradition, ime.  A very frustrating one at that.

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  • StoneRoses2StoneRoses2 Seattle, WAPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by osc8r




    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

    SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

    Too YOU and those who agree with you! Not to those who can actually pick up any MMO and know how to enjoy it, just like any other classic game.

    Sorry, some of us are not spoiled ungrateful brats.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by StoneRoses

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by osc8r




    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

    SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

    Too YOU and those who agree with you! Not to those who can actually pick up any MMO and know how to enjoy it, just like any other classic game.

    Sorry, some of us are not spoiled ungrateful brats.

    So we're spoiled brats because we expect a 2011/12 game to actually be a modern game and not do things worse than a 7 year old game?

    7 years, man. BioWare had 7 freaking years of WoW to look to. I mean they aimed to copy that game but then completely missed everything that made WoW a good game.

    Ungratful?! LOL maybe I should give BioWare my first born.

    image

  • StoneRoses2StoneRoses2 Seattle, WAPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by osc8r




    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

    SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

    Too YOU and those who agree with you! Not to those who can actually pick up any MMO and know how to enjoy it, just like any other classic game.

    Sorry, some of us are not spoiled ungrateful brats.

    So we're spoiled brats because we expect a 2011/12 game to actually be a modern game and not do things worse than a 7 year old game?

    7 years, man. BioWare had 7 freaking years of WoW to look to. I mean they aimed to copy that game but then completely missed everything that made WoW a good game.

    Ungratful?! LOL maybe I should give BioWare my first born.

    There you have have it! Trying to play a game exactly like WoW. You want all the same convenient features from another game.

    Thank you for proving one of my points!

  • rastorgrastorg El Paso, TXPosts: 32Member Uncommon

    Ms. Ford, all I will say to you is that you lose all credibility when you say space combat is a game breaker for you, and yet you say you just can't ignore doing the missions given the really good xp gains.

  • HjorulvHjorulv Grand Chute, WIPosts: 15Member

    After playing beta, and leveling 2 1/2 characters to 50, I don't find anything about the game to be groundbreaking.  In fact I find the game to be a really bad representation of the Old Republic times in Star Wars.  I here people talking about the movies all the time in the game, but the game is supposed to be taking place over 3,000 years before the movies.  Someone forgot to tell Bioware I guess.  The number of anachronism is almost uncountable.  I realize they wanted to play on the movies, but then don't call it Old Republic.  I'm not a real Star Wars fanatic, but I can count a handful without trying.

    1. Small ships did not have hyperspace capability.  It was almost unheard of for small ships in the movies time period to have it.  The Millenium Falcon was a rarity.

    2. Races misused.  ie Chiss as a race.  Very little was known about the Chiss even in the times of the movies.

    3. Freezing people in carbonite, with sprays, etc.  It was a new technology in the movie times and not perfected then.

    4. I just group misplaced wildlife as one instead of listing them separately.  Some, like the Nexus, are shown in packs, when they are solo hunters that will eat their young.

    5. Back to the design of ships overall.  They are from movie times.  I guess all the engineers/designers were entirely braindead for 3k years to come up with something or better.

    Anyway, I'm sure a real Star Wars junkie could fill a notebook with all the anachronisms and errors.

    As for voice overs being new and epic questlines as well.  I think you'll find them in Lotro, along with the idea of using companions to help you fight as well.  I agree that voice overs/cinematics were over used and should have been limited to class quests.  I got to the point, especially with daily quests, where I want a button to avoid the conversation altogether and just give me the quest.

    PvP is SwToR isn't any different than anywhere else, and the open PvP areas are a big fail right now.  No one is ever in the one on Tatooine and the objectives in Ilum don't mean very little and one person can take them all without much problem.

    The class storylines are like being lead on a leash.  You have no choice of what to do to keep the story going, even if it means doing something really stupid that you wouldn't do.  Yoru choices mean nothing.  The story is set and you follow it, or you don't complete it.  And when you complete the class storyline where do you go from there?  How do you expand on it in the future?  To me the whole game seems like a console game slapped on a basic MMO format.  They spent lots of money on cinematics and on the Star Wars license itself, and it left little for things to put the game on par with even free to play games, like a modifiable UI, or maybe someone to fix bugs and such that have been in the game since the middle of beta.

    I don't totally dislike the game.  It has it's moments and can be fun for awhile.  Is it worth $15 a month in it's current state?  Not a chance.  Like an other review on the site, I'd had to give the game an overall rating of 6 out of 10.

     

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by StoneRoses

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by StoneRoses


    Originally posted by osc8r




    Originally posted by Keogh



    For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

    They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

    Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

    Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.

    Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.

    Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.

     

    Innovation is making better or more effective product!

    Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

    SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

    Too YOU and those who agree with you! Not to those who can actually pick up any MMO and know how to enjoy it, just like any other classic game.

    Sorry, some of us are not spoiled ungrateful brats.

    So we're spoiled brats because we expect a 2011/12 game to actually be a modern game and not do things worse than a 7 year old game?

    7 years, man. BioWare had 7 freaking years of WoW to look to. I mean they aimed to copy that game but then completely missed everything that made WoW a good game.

    Ungratful?! LOL maybe I should give BioWare my first born.

    There you have have it! Trying to play a game exactly like WoW. You want all the same convenient features from another game.

    Thank you for proving one of my points!

    The game is WoW. How else would you play it? It's not a sandbox like UO or EVE. It's a themepark MMO just like the game BioWare went out to copy. And please don't give me that "personal story" bullshit. The personal stories are only about 5% of the content. Everything else is exactly the same.

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  • ComplicationComplication Bonsall, CAPosts: 209Member

    this good cop bad cop review is just awful. they are both good cops, the bad cop is just pretending to actually mean any of the junk bad cop says.  when in reality bad cop really loves what good cop is saying.

  • thekzethekze Montreal, QCPosts: 179Member

    I would enjoy the game if it had better performance in warzones.

  • warbot7777warbot7777 Atlanta, GAPosts: 110Member

    I'm sorry Suzie. I disagreed with almost every word you said. It might have been better if the girl was the big Star Wars fan and the guy was the hater.

  • warbot7777warbot7777 Atlanta, GAPosts: 110Member

    Also lol @ the idiots saying this game is WoW. Get over it. Other games will come out, they aren't all WoW. Sorry idiots.

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