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There's just nothing this game does exceptionally well

red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon

Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game outside of the fact that it has the Star Wars and BioWare name to it.  But the BioWare name is a lie, because it's mostly Mythic people rebranded, and the Star Wars IP isn't worth having LucasArts stuck to your profit margin like a parasite.



Questing is linear, boring and repetitive.  It's serviceable enough, but are all very basic and rudimentary.  Click, kill, or loot, with the option to click, kill or loot bonus objectives, which is really just how BioWare adds extra quests/content without all the cutscene and voice over fuss.



Class game play offers nothing new outside of a new resource system to struggle with, which really only serves to force you to spec certain ways.  The talent trees are full of the same % chance for this and -cost to that stock that we're all familiar with, that we already know will eventually be boiled down to charts and graphs.



Classes are not well balanced and are a conceptual mess. Won't that expansion be fun when they release the next class with heavy armor, heals and long range nukes?  Oh wait! Where do they even go next?  Ultra armor?  Morter ranged attacks?  Riding a rancor?



Two faction systems are boring and a waste of time to develop, forcing extra resources that could otherwise be spent on something else.  The mirrored classes compound this.



The planet storylines are occasionally interesting, but lose their luster a lot the second go round.  The class storylines feel like they've been spread too thin and at least on the Republic side, haven't been very interesting. Nothing really effects the outcome of the story though.  Heck, even dead guys send you mail thanking you for a second chance.  



I actually like the environment graphics, but I can't even give BioWare passing marks here what with the whole high texture fiasco.  The environment design revolves around guiding players down a linear path and cramming as many quest nooks as possible in as small a space as they can.  It ends up feeling very claustrophobic.



The PvP in this game is a mess.  First the unbalanced factions, then the 10-50 brackets, then the Ilum exploit.  Even if it was working well, you are still left with unbalanced classes, a low skill ceiling, ridiculous crowd control, limited warzone options, a hefty grind, too much gear dependence, too much reliance on adrenal/stim/relic popping and the "mind blowing" Ilum PvP experience is just a bowl that you run around in.



Space combat is just another check on their laundry list approach to game design.  Heck, the character customizer felt like it was just another check on their list.

The flashpoints and operations weren't very challenging.  The boss mechanics are enjoyable and varied enough, but it's going to feel very familiar even if the stormtroopers assaulted you jumping on pogosticks simply because of your class' familiar gameplay mechanics.

End game is very grindy.  The UI is a mess. Quality of life issues abound. Bugs are everywhere.



It seems like what they were going for with this game was a combination of "good enough" and "at least it's not WoW".  BioWare has a reputation for being a great game company, but their best games have utilized systems from other products.  What it seems like they do best is simply "adapt" products and then tell a story around it.  The RPG mechanics behind both Dragon Age and Mass Effect were weak, maybe I was just expecting too much from the post-EA BioWare.  Heck, I'll go so far to say that I've had more fun with Dragon Age 2 than I have with SWTOR.

Some people will say that this game has potential. For what? To be just as good one day as WoW was in it's prime?  Is that really the extent of what we are looking for in MMORPGs?  And to that, I agree... one day, it may be as good as WoW was; it may even be better... but I don't think it'll ever be different.  I'd give this game a solid C for being average.

Comments

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Texarkana, TXPosts: 704Member Uncommon

    2 things.. breeds fans :P

    And story

    Got to give em that much even if you do not like Theme parks.

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Castroville, TXPosts: 401Member Common

    In before all the SW fan boys come in to protect their self-proclaimed "AAA game".

    You pretty much summed it all up. The game is very much standard issue with really no innovation outside the terrible/annoying/overly-repetitive voice acting. This is why I stick with Rift... It hasn't disappoint me yet and innovations continue to pour in.

  • BoostedBobBoostedBob Colorado Springs, COPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game outside of the fact that it has the Star Wars and BioWare name to it.  But the BioWare name is a lie, because it's mostly Mythic people rebranded, and the Star Wars IP isn't worth having LucasArts stuck to your profit margin like a parasite.



    Questing is linear, boring and repetitive.  It's serviceable enough, but are all very basic and rudimentary.  Click, kill, or loot, with the option to click, kill or loot bonus objectives, which is really just how BioWare adds extra quests/content without all the cutscene and voice over fuss.



    Class game play offers nothing new outside of a new resource system to struggle with, which really only serves to force you to spec certain ways.  The talent trees are full of the same % chance for this and -cost to that stock that we're all familiar with, that we already know will eventually be boiled down to charts and graphs.



    Classes are not well balanced and are a conceptual mess. Won't that expansion be fun when they release the next class with heavy armor, heals and long range nukes?  Oh wait! Where do they even go next?  Ultra armor?  Morter ranged attacks?  Riding a rancor?



    Two faction systems are boring and a waste of time to develop, forcing extra resources that could otherwise be spent on something else.  The mirrored classes compound this.



    The planet storylines are occasionally interesting, but lose their luster a lot the second go round.  The class storylines feel like they've been spread too thin and at least on the Republic side, haven't been very interesting. Nothing really effects the outcome of the story though.  Heck, even dead guys send you mail thanking you for a second chance.  



    I actually like the environment graphics, but I can't even give BioWare passing marks here what with the whole high texture fiasco.  The environment design revolves around guiding players down a linear path and cramming as many quest nooks as possible in as small a space as they can.  It ends up feeling very claustrophobic.



    The PvP in this game is a mess.  First the unbalanced factions, then the 10-50 brackets, then the Ilum exploit.  Even if it was working well, you are still left with unbalanced classes, a low skill ceiling, ridiculous crowd control, limited warzone options, a hefty grind, too much gear dependence, too much reliance on adrenal/stim/relic popping and the "mind blowing" Ilum PvP experience is just a bowl that you run around in.



    Space combat is just another check on their laundry list approach to game design.  Heck, the character customizer felt like it was just another check on their list.

    The flashpoints and operations weren't very challenging.  The boss mechanics are enjoyable and varied enough, but it's going to feel very familiar even if the stormtroopers assaulted you jumping on pogosticks simply because of your class' familiar gameplay mechanics.

    End game is very grindy.  The UI is a mess. Quality of life issues abound. Bugs are everywhere.



    It seems like what they were going for with this game was a combination of "good enough" and "at least it's not WoW".  BioWare has a reputation for being a great game company, but their best games have utilized systems from other products.  What it seems like they do best is simply "adapt" products and then tell a story around it.  The RPG mechanics behind both Dragon Age and Mass Effect were weak, maybe I was just expecting too much from the post-EA BioWare.  Heck, I'll go so far to say that I've had more fun with Dragon Age 2 than I have with SWTOR.

    Some people will say that this game has potential. For what? To be just as good one day as WoW was in it's prime?  Is that really the extent of what we are looking for in MMORPGs?  And to that, I agree... one day, it may be as good as WoW was; it may even be better... but I don't think it'll ever be different.  I'd give this game a solid C for being average.

    Did you go in expecting the game to be the greatest thing since sliced bread? 

    Sure it might not have been your cup of tea but, I feel in my honest opinion Bioware did a great job with the game, I have not been able to get into a MMO for a long time now. Tried out  Star Wars and was blown away by the acting, the mundane quest of fetch this and fetch just did not feel the same with this game. Made it pretty fun. Sure leveling seem's a bit fast paced and death penaltys(sp) are non existent, but that has not stopped me from enjoying the game. 

     

    I came into this game expecting nothing, and ended up getting awarded with a great game and with a great story. Most of the people are pretty chill and easy to party with. I have only gotten into a few pvp fights and might have lost the majority of the fights but enjoyed it quite a bit. 

     

    Graphics look great to me, everything run's pretty smooth and have not ran into any bug's. 

    As for the other poster commenting about the fan boy's, Sure I like Star Wars, but i would not say I am a fan boy I enjoy the game for what it is, A good game nothing more. 

     

    Everyone else who doesn't like the game hope you find one you can enjoy.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    theres hardly any of the orignal mythic staff at EA

    the csr turned suit and the english hypemaster work for EA, but not for bioware

    the smart people left and joined bethseda / zenimax mmo division when EA bought them out

    the unlucky people got kicked out later, many of them now working on dominus

     

    so sorry, the faults of swtor lay firmly at the feet of bioware

  • ArkiniaArkinia Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 251Member

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    In before all the SW fan boys come in to protect their self-proclaimed "AAA game".

    You pretty much summed it all up. The game is very much standard issue with really no innovation outside the terrible/annoying/overly-repetitive voice acting. This is why I stick with Rift... It hasn't disappoint me yet and innovations continue to pour in.

    having a great time and not a fanboi... just sayin

  • kartoolkartool Hamilton, ONPosts: 472Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    In before all the SW fan boys come in to protect their self-proclaimed "AAA game".

    You pretty much summed it all up. The game is very much standard issue with really no innovation outside the terrible/annoying/overly-repetitive voice acting. This is why I stick with Rift... It hasn't disappoint me yet and innovations continue to pour in.

    Since you like Rift that makes you a Rift fanboi? Serioulsy, can't someone enjoy a game and disagree with a negative opinion on said game? 

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game

     

    It has the quality to keep people talking about it non-stop (or writing complaint novels on forums about it) all over the world.

     

    That's pretty exceptional.

     

     

     

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by BoostedBob

    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game outside of the fact that it has the Star Wars and BioWare name to it.  But the BioWare name is a lie, because it's mostly Mythic people rebranded, and the Star Wars IP isn't worth having LucasArts stuck to your profit margin like a parasite.



    Questing is linear, boring and repetitive.  It's serviceable enough, but are all very basic and rudimentary.  Click, kill, or loot, with the option to click, kill or loot bonus objectives, which is really just how BioWare adds extra quests/content without all the cutscene and voice over fuss.



    Class game play offers nothing new outside of a new resource system to struggle with, which really only serves to force you to spec certain ways.  The talent trees are full of the same % chance for this and -cost to that stock that we're all familiar with, that we already know will eventually be boiled down to charts and graphs.



    Classes are not well balanced and are a conceptual mess. Won't that expansion be fun when they release the next class with heavy armor, heals and long range nukes?  Oh wait! Where do they even go next?  Ultra armor?  Morter ranged attacks?  Riding a rancor?



    Two faction systems are boring and a waste of time to develop, forcing extra resources that could otherwise be spent on something else.  The mirrored classes compound this.



    The planet storylines are occasionally interesting, but lose their luster a lot the second go round.  The class storylines feel like they've been spread too thin and at least on the Republic side, haven't been very interesting. Nothing really effects the outcome of the story though.  Heck, even dead guys send you mail thanking you for a second chance.  



    I actually like the environment graphics, but I can't even give BioWare passing marks here what with the whole high texture fiasco.  The environment design revolves around guiding players down a linear path and cramming as many quest nooks as possible in as small a space as they can.  It ends up feeling very claustrophobic.



    The PvP in this game is a mess.  First the unbalanced factions, then the 10-50 brackets, then the Ilum exploit.  Even if it was working well, you are still left with unbalanced classes, a low skill ceiling, ridiculous crowd control, limited warzone options, a hefty grind, too much gear dependence, too much reliance on adrenal/stim/relic popping and the "mind blowing" Ilum PvP experience is just a bowl that you run around in.



    Space combat is just another check on their laundry list approach to game design.  Heck, the character customizer felt like it was just another check on their list.

    The flashpoints and operations weren't very challenging.  The boss mechanics are enjoyable and varied enough, but it's going to feel very familiar even if the stormtroopers assaulted you jumping on pogosticks simply because of your class' familiar gameplay mechanics.

    End game is very grindy.  The UI is a mess. Quality of life issues abound. Bugs are everywhere.



    It seems like what they were going for with this game was a combination of "good enough" and "at least it's not WoW".  BioWare has a reputation for being a great game company, but their best games have utilized systems from other products.  What it seems like they do best is simply "adapt" products and then tell a story around it.  The RPG mechanics behind both Dragon Age and Mass Effect were weak, maybe I was just expecting too much from the post-EA BioWare.  Heck, I'll go so far to say that I've had more fun with Dragon Age 2 than I have with SWTOR.

    Some people will say that this game has potential. For what? To be just as good one day as WoW was in it's prime?  Is that really the extent of what we are looking for in MMORPGs?  And to that, I agree... one day, it may be as good as WoW was; it may even be better... but I don't think it'll ever be different.  I'd give this game a solid C for being average.

    Did you go in expecting the game to be the greatest thing since sliced bread? 

    Sure it might not have been your cup of tea but, I feel in my honest opinion Bioware did a great job with the game, I have not been able to get into a MMO for a long time now. Tried out  Star Wars and was blown away by the acting, the mundane quest of fetch this and fetch just did not feel the same with this game. Made it pretty fun. Sure leveling seem's a bit fast paced and death penaltys(sp) are non existent, but that has not stopped me from enjoying the game. 

     

    I came into this game expecting nothing, and ended up getting awarded with a great game and with a great story. Most of the people are pretty chill and easy to party with. I have only gotten into a few pvp fights and might have lost the majority of the fights but enjoyed it quite a bit. 

     

    Graphics look great to me, everything run's pretty smooth and have not ran into any bug's. 

    As for the other poster commenting about the fan boy's, Sure I like Star Wars, but i would not say I am a fan boy I enjoy the game for what it is, A good game nothing more. 

     

    Everyone else who doesn't like the game hope you find one you can enjoy.

    Thank you for your opinion.

    image
  • tkoreapertkoreaper Castroville, TXPosts: 401Member Common

    Originally posted by kartool

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    In before all the SW fan boys come in to protect their self-proclaimed "AAA game".

    You pretty much summed it all up. The game is very much standard issue with really no innovation outside the terrible/annoying/overly-repetitive voice acting. This is why I stick with Rift... It hasn't disappoint me yet and innovations continue to pour in.

    Since you like Rift that makes you a Rift fanboi? Serioulsy, can't someone enjoy a game and disagree with a negative opinion on said game? 

    There's a Difference. I clearly stated "SW"fanboi... did I say SWTOR? SW is an IP... Rift is not. There are people that play SWTOR simply because they are fanbois of SW... not because they think it's a great game. Those fanbois tend to be biased because they are fanbois of the SW IP. They're also too stubborn to actually see how SWTOR is as a game because all they care about is that it's SW.

    So to answer your question... No, I'm not a "Rift fanboi" I'm a Rift player and as a player that is not a fanboi of SW I am not biased towards SWTOR. Therefor my opinion is not biased and my opinion was accurately conveyed in the OP.

  • AZHokie54AZHokie54 Phoenix, AZPosts: 275Member Uncommon

    The one thing it does really well is entertain me.

    I could really care less what anyone else thinks. When it stops being enteraining, I'll move on to something else.

     

  • DarwaDarwa CambridgePosts: 2,184Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by BoostedBob


    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    ***snip***

    ***snip***

    Thank you for your opinion.

    Thanks for yours (in a less obstructive manner).

  • JoliustJoliust stoughton, WIPosts: 1,329Member


    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Originally posted by red_cruiser
    Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game
     
    It has the quality to keep people talking about it non-stop (or writing complaint novels on forums about it) all over the world.
     
    That's pretty exceptional.
     
     
     

    You know what other game had people non-stop talking about it before/after release. Darkfall.

    Just saying. No game is for everyone, if you have grown bored or never liked a theme-park game then SWTOR will not appeal. Yet both sides feel the need to proclaim their opinion as truth and call the other side idiots.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Two things it does well in my opinion: story/VO and providing me with hours and hours of fun.

    Exceptional in those two regards.

    Oh, and it also got my wife to quit playing wow. It did that very well.

    Shadow's Hand Guild
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  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by red_cruiser

     Riding a rancor?

    Yes. I also want weapons and armor for it.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    * Individual class quests instead of everyone having all the same quests, which form the ...
    * ... Individual class story line. Each class has a single story arc from level 1 to level 50.
    * While the character's abilities and combat are standard mmo fare, the mobs themselves offer more variety and levels of challenge than most mmorpg. There is as much or as little challenge as you desire.
    * While you are lead around via the quest nose ring, there is plenty of content and areas outside of the questing to explore or find additional challenge (if you want it).
    * Group content seems to be very well done. It is fast paced and requires some coordination from the participants, even in the beginning content. It could just be that there's a story in the group content or that choices made affect the final outcome of the group content story.

    The one thing the game does exceptionally well is having a story threaded through the entire game. You have a main story line for your character, each world has a story line and even smaller side quests have a story. There is other stuff that's 'good', but this is exceptional.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • StoneRoses2StoneRoses2 Seattle, WAPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by red_cruiser




    9/08/10 10:07:39 PM

    Bioware's one strength is storytelling, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the story they have to tell is worth listening to, it just means they know how to communicate it effectively and immerse their players within  the storyline.  The storytelling for Mass Effect and Dragon Age is quite well done... the content of the stories... eh, not so much.  I haven't had any high hopes for this game since they released their first screenshots, and the subsequent and predictable  pipleline of WoW-clone game features pretty much sealed the deal.


    You forced yourself to purchase and play a game knowing exactly what you were getting into!

    I'm glad Bioware took your $60.

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

        I've said it before, but anyone who chooses NOT to see something, no matter how obvious it is, will always succeed at failing.  No different for the OP.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • headphonesheadphones melbournePosts: 611Member

    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Try as I might, I can't really think of one exceptional quality to this game

     

    It has the quality to keep people talking about it non-stop (or writing complaint novels on forums about it) all over the world.

     

    That's pretty exceptional.

     

     

     

    point.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    I totally agree with everything the OP stated.  I'm a die hard Star Wars fan.  Halloween, I always dress up in my stormtrooper or darth vader outfit (empire ftw hehe).  If I notice there's a SW marathon on spike or some other channel, I'll sit there all day and watch it.  I called in sick for every single release of the last 3 movies so I could go to the midnight showing (in my trooper or vader costume hehe).  I think I qualify as a SW fanboi, and I agree with OP.  This game does not do the Star Wars universe justice.  As said before, I'll stick with Rift.  It might be a "theme park", but at least it is exceptionally done.  I've never had a bug, problem, issue, or complaint since launch (except weapon stacking bug, which was fixed about 2 hours after launch).  Developers today are lazy, and SWTOR shows it.  It has no polish or immersion to the game.

     

    Edit: Forgot to mention.  I got a chest in my office closet at home full of Star Wars memorablia including original star wars figures still in the pack...yeah i'm that big of a star wars fanboi hehe.

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    The VO work is exceptional IMO.

     

     

     

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
    image

  • udorusudorus edinburghPosts: 79Member

    The length of time it takes to actually log into your character is truly exceptional, god i hate that sodding loading screen!

  • spaceportspaceport CatalunyaPosts: 405Member

    I agree, the quest experience is good, no great, not bad, just good... for the first time.

    Everything else is mediocre / average at best, pvp, crafting, combat, graphics, endgame, alt replayability, etc etc etc.

    There is just nothing else to do in this game but quest quest and QUEST, doing the same 3 battlegrounds gets boring after 1 week, instanced raids? yawn, "story fashpoints"? only the first flashpoint has story, crafting? why bother...

     

    This would have been a great single player RPG.

    image
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  • AdiarisAdiaris RomePosts: 381Member

    Originally posted by spaceport

     

    This would have been a great single player RPG.

    I can't even give it that much credit to be honest. For all everyone talks about story, I found the actual stories to be quite lame... maybe it was just the consular:

    - Young Jedi finds out Master is sick

    - Young Jedi heals master

    - Other 5 masters are sick - clearly each on a different planet 

    (every master has a friend/acolyte/random person that can't possibly believe said master is ill.)

    - Young Jedi runs random errands 

    - Young jedi must fight masters (no matter what your "choices" are you still fight them) and heals them at great personal cost (which is actually of no consequence gamewise) while investigating on the evil evil man behind it (who happens to be - surprise - a once upon a time Jedi turned bad due to etc. etc. etc.)

    I mean... I'm all for the story card, but really, a writer for one of those 90s D&D novels could have done better in his sleep.

    The thing that SWTOR does exceptionally well for me is make me wonder - and I mean no offense truly - as to how people can actually find enjoyment in this game because I really can't, and I hope devs don't decide to regale us with VO-Story-driven MMOs for the next 5 years if this is the result.

  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon

    Make no mistake, an average game is still fun.  If I played a game and it wasn't fun, I would give the game an "F", flat out no questions asked, and all the quality voice over work couldn't save it.  When it is done and over with though, you happily move on to the next title with few fond memories, sometimes thankful that it wasn't any longer,  and with no real noticeable sense of accomplishment.  We live in a world where being considered mediocre is sometimes worse than being just  plain bad, as if a spectacular failure is somehow more worthwhile than simply not being particularly interesting.  Perhaps that is why people seem to recoil so much at the notion that this game is just an average title.

    Sitting at level 50, I should feel more connected to my character than ever before, thanks to a continuous story that ran throughout the entire game, where you become a hero of almost ludicrous proportions.  It felt hollow and meaningless, because the understanding was there that there was only ever one inevitable conclusion.  How enjoyable would players find Mass Effect if they rolled the same cinematic for the Paragon and Renegade paths?  To play Mass Effect 2 and realize that nothing that they did affected the world?  That's what the story feels like to me.

    An average game does not challenge the status quo, does not alter the tested formula, does not encourage their players to rise to new challenges.  For some people, this is good enough, as long as they can play within a persistent world, make new friends, and continually make advancements to their characters.  That is afterall, what I believe to be, the main draw of the MMORPG.  It's an addicting and fun experience.

    People wonder why so many are voicing their opinions on this game, or why some people seem so desperate to either like it or to hate it.  It's not hard to understand.  Combining the KOTOR brand with THE Star Wars MMORPG means that this is it.  If you are a Star Wars fan, this is the only Star Wars RPG experience you can look forward to for the next 5 or 10 years.  Maybe the game needs to fail so hard, that BioWare and EA pull a FFXIV, or maybe you need to recall memories of what WoW was like when it was released, assuring yourself that there is so much more that they could add to the game given enough time and support from the players.

    For me, it's something else, and I'm sure many will agree.  We are simply ready to see the genre move into the post-WoW era, and SWTOR is still very much a creature of the WoW age. 

  • SysFailSysFail LondonPosts: 375Member

    It seems very odd that an MMO's best point would be the solo experience of the storyline, rather than the multiplayer aspects that should be its best points, developers these days really don't know up from down it seems. 

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