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Originally posted by Delerious1 I think Bioware had the right idea infusing more engaging story into an mmo, but that they have ultimately failed on too many fronts for this game to have serious long term subscriber retention.
While i think you are very right with that paragraph, i'd also say that in mmorpgs story doesn't equal story.
I'm still under the impression that a roleplaying game should be about making and experiencing your own story and not getting a premade, hardcoded story steamrolled over your character.
So while many say that story is the strongest point of SWTOR, in my opinion it is a major flaw the way it's being executed in SWTOR as a mmorpg.
It draggs character diversity down to a new low. When "every character basicly is, looks and experiences the same" is touted as a feature, someone has missed the 101 of how to make a RPG and the genre is deep in a identity-crisis.
You cancled your sub OP?
Great I just resubbed so I cancled you out.
Nothing to see here.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Originally posted by precious328 Shoot. I registered and followed their game since Oct. 08 with over 3000 posts. The sad thing is that I knew it was going to suck after experiencing the beta long ago. But it was Star Wars. I could "learn to like the linear hand-holding and simplicity." Couldn't do it.
Pretty much this, for me.
This morning, my friend Katilin told me she cancelled too - I had felt pretty bad cuz she had gottent he game to play with me and then I split not long after launch as I just couldn't force myself to enjoy it. Then got this msg from her this morning:
Kaitlin saysI cancelled my tor subscription yesterday lol...after playing for like 5 hours straight i realized i hadn't had the slightest bit of fun the entire time...so...i think i'm done...
Deacon saysit's really a shame... a wasted opportunity and a surprising effort from BioWare
To all who enjoy it, good stuff. Have fun.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Originally posted by tastywheat I haven't even started playing, I did play the beta however, and I'm already thinking of asking for a refund. First of all it took 24 hours to download the game. Really? I need to download 20-something GB of game data when I'll be spending the first day or so using only the first 6 GB. The WoW client does an amazing job of downloading while you play the game. Did EA/BioWare/whoever really think even half a day is an acceptable wait time? Once I finally got the client downloaded and I was ready to jump in they ask for my payment information. Whoa! One whole day of obsessively checking the progress bar then you give me the exclamation-triangle? I thought I had 30 days of free play? Well, truth be told I did have 30 days of free play, when the game started downloading. Now I'm down to 29 and I haven't even made a freaking character. They knew I couldn't possibly start the game without giving them some kind of payment information but they still started the timer on my free play period. I don't like to give my credit card info to any MMO because most are time vampires and I'd probably pay for longer than I want to so I'll be getting a time card later... but I'll have to get the 60-day time card because there is no 30-day time card because they're $@#%!%.
Its pretty simple! If you are already unhappy about it then don't play it. Seems some of you are so easily disappointed.
Do you guys seriously go to McDonalds and ask for a medium rare burger?
Originally posted by eagled2 Originally posted by Delerious1 Well today I finally had enough. Between their terrible optimization of the game, piss poor hero engine, poor mmo design choices, lvl 50 uber RNG pvp gear grind I've had enough.
This post tells me almost nothing about why you hate the game. The comment about optimization almost tells me something but lacks any sign of intelligent research. The one comment that actually tells me something is about the pvp gear grind at level 50. If you are going to take the time to post why a game sucks take the time to do it write and make an intelligent post that includes factual details that someone can actually use to make an intelligent decision. Posts like this that tell us nothing just serve to start another pointless bashing thread.
two posts up Eagle Eye Ed, posted 1/26/12 2:50:16 AM
Originally posted by cinos Originally posted by eagled2 Originally posted by Delerious1 Well today I finally had enough. Between their terrible optimization of the game, piss poor hero engine, poor mmo design choices, lvl 50 uber RNG pvp gear grind I've had enough.
Look literally two posts above yours.
I see that post I just wanted to emphasize the fact that his first post shows no signs of inteligence. First impressions are everything and after reading his first post any other comments he makes no longer have as much meaning as they could have. In the future Delerious1 take the time to make a post like the one 2 above mine in the first place.
Originally posted by Delerious1 I played every one of those games at launch. All, but City of Heroes from day 1. I'm not necessarily talking about the smoothness of the launch. Despite SWTOR's myriad bugs that really become noticeable as you approach 50 it had a smooth launch. To elaborate on my opening post these are just "some" of my problems with the game as it currently stands: 1. Performance of the game. The games performance is atrocious. My computer specs well exceed the minimum and surpass the recommended. Terrible gpu utilization. How is it possible I have the game on max settings at 1920x1200 resolution in huttball with all those players and fire effects going on and have an average of 5-30% gpu utilization and 5-25fps. There are people with absolutely beastly rigs having terrible issues in raids, warzones and the fleet instances. This can't all be Nvidia's fault even though I'm sure they can optimize their drivers to better work with this game. 2. Ability Delay. WTF IS THIS? I have NEVER played another mmo and experienced the ability delay this game has. They have improved upon this a little as far as I can tell since this weeks maintenance, but it's still there and still degrades the experience. I'm valor rank 38 atm and dealing with this as a juggernaut has been a hair pulling experience. I consider myself to have had great patience and fortitude dealing with this absolutely game breaking issue through a month of class questing and pvp'ing. When I'm tank spec I can't even use a key ability(retaliation) because it will lock me out of using any other damaging ability for anywhere 1-2 gcd's to as many as 3 godamn gcd's in a row. 3. WAY too much instancing. I don't need to go into details here as others have already explained this. 4. Very poorly thought out class design. The melee force users in this game are the weakest classes in the game. Um, WTF? I can see wanting balance, but what you have is every ranged class basically having all the tools melee have and no drawbacks. Let's look at a jedi consular. Wears light armor. Ok. Except they have a bubble they can preset and then refire while in combat as soon as it comes off effectively ignoring the first 6-8 seconds I am on them factoring in global cooldown time. Now give them a 2 second super sprint that covers more than double the distance your typical blink from a WoW mage. Now give them a WoW shaman knockback. Now give them a channeled ranged spell that has a 50% snare component to it and does high damage. I don't even have to mention what else they have in their arsenal. 5. Resolve. SUCKS. Half the time doesn't work. Is actually worse than straight diminishing returns. 6. Imbalance of ability usage between classes. This ties into #4. If you play a melee force user you WILL be using 20+ abilities and you will HAVE to. And yet you'll still do subpar damage outside of 1 gimic aoe spec when geared at 50. You would expect the classes that have the most number of actively used abilities and highest potential skill caps to be equal when played well to other simpler classes, but this is not the case. Contrast this to troopers, bounty hunters, agents and consulars who can literally spam 1-2 damaging attacks and kick your ass on damage both in single target and aoe capacities. 7. BUGS. Stupid bugs. Like the loading screen popping up while running around the fleet or when you are on the loading screen for a warzone. The game freezing for half a second when you open your inventory. WTF? Grouping for warzones and having your group dropped upon completion of the warzone. Being booted to login screen during a warzone. This really rocks when it happens during a WZ and you get no valor, no commendations, no nothing from it. Random boots to login screen. The game really doesn't crash me anymore completely, but when it did it was fun being put back into a 20-45 minute queue. And on and on. 8. Pvp RNG loot system. I've opened roughly 15 champ bags so far and gotten pants, boots, an implant and earpiece. By all accounts of been fairly lucky. It's completely rng. You do get tokens for the lower end pvp gear and it's not bad, but it's literally worthless once rng favors you and gives you a champ piece to upgrade it. My last 5 bags in a row have only been tokens(3 per bag). Consider that anything outside of a relic(think trinket) or implant costs 30-40+ commendations and this is for the lower end pvp gear(3 tiers). If I remember right it's 72 commendations for a tier 1 lightsaber. To put into perspective how long it takes to grind this amount of tokens figure that your typical game lasts 15 minutes and you can earn on average anywhere from 40-100 commendations. Let's be nice and say you average 100 commendations per game and that you complete the win 3 warzones's daily which provides 1 RNG champ bag. Let's also be nice and say you get instant queue's between games. To buy your mainhand lightsaber you are looking at spending timewise, BEST CASE SCENARIO, 40 hours actual pvp warzone play time over the course of 4 days(to add the daily bag tokens) for a TIER 1 mainhand that will be auto thrown away when a champ bag eventually decides to grant you a weapon. That is an absolute best case scenario. Of course due to premades and faction imbalances you may have to spend upwards of 3-8 hours each day just to complete the pvp daily. Also you don't get instant queue's most of the time and I played on Swiftsure which has possibly the highest population of any server. So in reality you could be looking at more like 50-60 actual play time hours to acquire what amounts to a trash tier weapon. Honestly I would have preferred pvp gear required X amounts of commendations. Even if 1 champ item was the equivalent of 2400 tokens and 3 daily wins to acquire the piece AT LEAST you would be getting something for sure that you wanted in X time that you wouldn't possibly be throwing away in short order. And the process is repeated again for Battlemaster gear tier 3 only it becomes an even bigger pita to acquire and still suffers from RNG. This is "JUST" mainly my issues with the pvp side of the game and some miscellaneous bugs. I was not lying when I said I could write a 25,000 word essay on what's wrong with SWTOR if I so desired. As it is this is as much as I can muster atm. Brb, going to the bathroom to wash this sour taste out of my mouth.
Love this post and agree but i'd like to add "4-man party size" to your list. Funneling 1 tank per only 2 dps was also a terrible decision in my eyes. As if finding a tank wasn't annoying enough for 5 or 6 man groups.
Originally posted by Delerious1 Well today I finally had enough. Between their terrible optimization of the game, piss poor hero engine, poor mmo design choices, lvl 50 uber RNG pvp gear grind I've had enough. I watched the show The Republic for a consistent 7-8 months before the game launched. I was highly looking forward to the game. I've played it for a month now and no longer have any desire to play the game. Anyone playing the game atm is essentially paying to beta test the game. I understand it's a brand new mmo, but after your initial impressions of the first 20-30 levels you start to see and realize how bug ridden and poorly optimized this game is. I can honestly say that having played WoW for over a year, Vanguard, CoH/V, Champions Online, AoC, Warhammer etc that this game fails on many levels. The best part of the game is your class quest line as you level up. I fully expected this, but when you look past this you realize how SUBPAR every other part of the game is. I could literally write a 25,000 word essay on the problems this game has, but I'm not going to waste that amount of time of the people bothering to read this. My best advice to anyone reading this that may be interested in SWTOR is that if you are gonna buy the game expect to be fairly entertained for maybe a month while you level your character from 1-50 and expect most of that enjoyment to come from your "main" class quest storyline. Beyond that don't expect much more out of the game. I think Bioware had the right idea infusing more engaging story into an mmo, but that they have ultimately failed on too many fronts for this game to have serious long term subscriber retention. So that's that. Ya, I know, ya told me so.
I cancelled 20 days into my 30 day initial subscription.Today is the last day of my 30 free days.Why ? End game motivates me to focus and look forward to what ever it is. SWTOR has no end game. RVR...nope.Go start another character...thats the end game.And they think that will retain subscribers ! LOL.
Originally posted by StoneRoses
I worked at a Burger King when I was 16 or so in the late 80s. I don't know the process now, but then to cook a burger, there was this chain-link conveyor belt that moved the meat through the flame-broiler. You could control the speed/done-ness with this knob on the back but it was touchy and it took like 5 minutes to see the result of your adjustment so once it was set right, we didn't like to touch it.
One day during a lunch rush some lady ordered a "well-done" burger. I guess the cashier tried to explain the way all of the burgers were made, but the lady refused to accept it. To try to help, I nuked a patty for like 2 minutes after it came through the conveyor. Next thing I knew this lady had pushed her way back to the front of the lines and was completely bitching out the cashier in front of all of the other customers because her burger wasn't "well-done." That poor little girl was almost in tears. I went out front, grabbed her burger and put it through that conveyor 3 times. When it was done it looked like a little black hockey puck. I placed it on a bun, open face style and presented it to her still kind of smoking. Before she had a chance to say anything I looked her straight in the eye and said "It's kind of hot, please be careful not to let it burn your gigantic mouth on the way down" She kind of looked flabberghasted, just blinked and went back to her seat.
I didn't last long there, but that incident didn't get me fired as the manager at the time was blowing me on the side. Eventually what got me fired was Motley Crue. I used to like to recite "In the Beginning" from the Shout at the Devil album through the drive-through speaker. The shitty speaker would distort my voice just perfectly. Well, apparently you could hear the drive through speaker from the adjacent intersection and I happened to be doing it when my boss was bringing her regional manager in for a visit. Yeah, that did it. I got a job at a record store right after so there actually was a happy ending. No more manager action though.
/end old guy memories spawned by random comments
Originally posted by leojreimroc I would say that this belongs in the SWTOR thread, but then again, it probably belongs in the forum trash bin. Like we need another of these threads....
If one person posts, then it is easily dimissed. If 2 people post, still dissmissed...
How many post before people see the truth of what is being said.
How many people are so worried about this or plain stupid to want people to stop posting?
Someone please make a good MMO.
I really do not understand the plethora of bugs people are encountering. I've encountered one bug thus far and I am level 43. It was with a Heroic quest on Belsavis where one of the clickable items was not available to all party members - just one at a time. So we ran it 4 times - no big deal. The game has crashed once (ironically on Belsavis) in 43 levels of gameplay.
There are definitely features that are missing that should be standard for any new MMO, but in terms of a playable game it totally is. I have a i5Core and a GeForce 570 and I get 100+ FPS in the open world and float between 60-100 in populated cities and my system is hardly top of the line.
The game is in a much better place than WoW was at least and even 6 months after their launch. It is much better condition than any other MMO of recent release including Warhammer Omline and Age of Conan. Could it have used another quarter of feature enhancements and tersting - absolutely.
Originally posted by Corehaven Originally posted by StoneRoses I love the amount of depth folks put into threads like these. Assuming what he has to say would be inspiring or influential for others to do the same. See how some of you made your mind up long before release. I found it funny that there are those who struggle knowing exactly what they are getting into. It's almost like a Will Ferrel sketch or scene. "I'm playing the game but I hate it! Seriously, it's aweful, but I am still playing the game. No, not going to stop because I'm still playing the game even thoiugh it's really, really BAD." It's rather sad and pathetic!
One time I went on a dinosaur themed ride on my honeymoon. It was at a random carnival we came across. It cost 5 bucks to ride it. Horrible ride. We laughed it was so bad. But no I didnt jump off and run away. I paid money for it so I sat it out.
Sound familiar? Id probably mess around with Swtor as well if I had actually bought it. Maybe. Not sure.
But I dont see anyone here saying they hate the game and they're still playing it. So regardless Im not sure where you are coming from. But if if helps you understand, yea a couple of times Ive bought a game, that I thought was awful. But I gritted my teeth and kept playing it until I had beat it. If only to try and get my moneys worth. Its a common thing. Easily understood.
Nothing sad and pathetic about it.
Defender of the Crown
My brother bought that for the Nintendo back around '89. He thought it was so terrible that after an hour or so playing, he actually gave it to me. The game was ugly. The gameplay was slow. Basically, everything that could have gripped him didn't grab him - except the sound. The sound was good.
Since I was 12 and had just gotten a new game, I played it for about 4 hours straight as my whole family was out for the night for a competition.
By the time my brother saw me playing it the next day he started playing it and he got into it himself. He then regretted giving it to me, but he didn't renege.
Sometimes when you don't have many other opportunities to play games you want and you just want to play a game, you let yourself go through the drudgery to see if you emerge liking it. Lots of people in SWTOR seem to enjoy it. So those of us who have quit have tried to see the positive in it.
We gave SWTOR a chance to prove it was more than just a game with great sound effects, like Defender of the Crown turned out to be. But SWTOR is pretty much a game with great music and sound and nothing else at or above WoW's level.
The common problem i read is that people wanted an mmo and got a single player game with a monthly fee.I knew this months before the game ever launched, i knew all the problems and i posted about them but was ignored and flamed into oblivion for telling the truth, apparently i was even banned a few times which i didn't know until i read email much later telling me i was and laughed because i never logged in during the bans, haha, the only thing i never predicted was that i actually love the game.Let it be understood that i love the game for the story. Huge kotor fan here and by the looks of things the only way i can get fresh kotor stories is by subbing to a single player game and is why i canceled even before the first month was up, i was more in an mmo mood so played another game. I canceled knowing full well i will return when i feel like some kotor though. Heck, I'm thinking i might sub back up as early as next month.It's an awesome game and deserves all the 90% pluses it receives but those rating are only going to ring true for the extreme casual crowd, which i've been in lately.Overall i really like ToR, it was a huge achievement, a massive undertaking that they pulled off to a degree depending an what you expected or wished for, it's highly entertaining, fun, it just doesn't fit the bill in what i look for in an mmo. Take it for what it is it's great.
I dont know where you guys come up with Bioware loosing money on SWTOR. All you sheep that bought it, already has given the developmental costs back to them.
Developers will learn once the sheep become wolves and stop buying into this garbage. There was ample knowlage well before this game released that it would be nothing more than a 90 day'er. Yet it still sold millions. Other devs will still make these games because this crap keeps selling.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIVFavorite MMO: FFXI
I can't agree more.
I already lost interest at 25 ... it was tedious. My friends managed to keep me leveling till 40 and then i really couldn't stand it anymore.
The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.
just signed up for another story filled voice over month, lvl 22 and having played over 50 mmo's enjoying this one the most
Originally posted by Cyberdeck7 Originally posted by StoneRoses
thank you for that. One of the best posts I've read here in years.
Originally posted by tavtav Originally posted by Delerious1 Ya, I know, ya told me so.
I'm glad you came to your senses eventually at least, there are a lot of fanboys still out there deluding themselves, or worse, putting up with all the atrocious crap simply because it's Star Wars and hoping it'll get better. It won't, not in the ways it needs to. There are too many fundamental flaws.
And I can't help that this sums it up for many people who didn't listen XD
Translation: "ZOMG STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE!"
Really, is it that hard for some people to fathom that different people have different tastes? SWTOR is probably not for me and I doubt I'll be playing it for more than, at most, 1 month after the free trial myself, but I don't find any difficulty accepting the fact that other people actually like the game.
Even decided to give it a fair chance before denouncing it. I'm not saying everyone has to try it, but at the very least dont go peeing in other people's Cheerios.