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Why did this game fail?



  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    Why did war fail? Because it was not fun. It was unfun. Why was it unfun? The combat abilities were simplistic and bland. The PVE was ultra linear. WAR was missing the gameplay mechanics from DAOC that allowed for awesome PVP strategy and tactics. The classes were kind of neat (like the dwarf with guns and grenades), but they simply were not fun to play in PVP. Whereas DAOC was like live action chess, WAR was like football with guns, minus any fun associated with football or guns.

    As always, someone always says it better than I.  Very nicely put!


    DAOC = Live Action Chess.  Absolutely!

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member

    No idea why WAR failed exactly. I had a semi-good time. Played it right from the start and it was really something for 1-2months I enjoyed playing. I even came back twice. The cosmetic items really were interesting, along with the RvR. The character design was also very good imho (speaking of orcs and goblins). PvE on top of that, especially the instances were awesome designed! Really!

    PvP lacked heavily of balancing at some points. But I cant tell you people why the sub-numbers dropped. At some point I quit this game, because it lacked of content. There was literally nothing frustrating which gave you a negative reason to quit.

    So the conclusion might be: No expansion release. No interesting addons. As far as I remember it was as interesting as WoW in its vanilla state. But they somehow didnt put more effort in it to continue what they had developed.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.


  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member Uncommon

    These reasons are very familiar...interesting.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    Originally posted by Axxar


    Had they just made Dark Age of Camelot 2 I think they would have been a lot more succesful.

    That's it in a nutshell.  But from what I have read, it was Marc Jacobs who is to blame for assuming Dark Age of Camelot 2 (Or DAoC Redux) as he put it, was never going to happen.  As if DAoC was some disaster to be avoided.  And yet, since roughly 2004 when WoW killed the DAoC player base and Mythic just "gave up" instead of leasing a new engine, I have heard time and time again in general chat - man I miss DAoC, or I wish pvp was like in DAoC - and someone would reply, What's daoc?  And you'd get 23 people attesting to just how many great moments they had in the game.


    Those old daoc'ers also say they can't go back because the game has sat since 2004 with no attempts to upgrade its visual quality and clunky UI. 


    So how about it?  Is a developer ever going to have a bright light moment and push this game back onto the desk of the EA masters?

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member

    Originally posted by Comaf

    Originally posted by Axxar


    Had they just made Dark Age of Camelot 2 I think they would have been a lot more succesful.

    So how about it?  Is a developer ever going to have a bright light moment and push this game back onto the desk of the EA masters?

    Never have seen a single ressurected MMO in 14years. Have you?


  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

     I hate EA and other big money gaming publishers which cares about one metric, which is money.

    You act as if *any* publisher cares about anything else.  They dont.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    It failed beause the PvE was ultimately terrible and if you have a game that only targets the pure PvPers (a small part of the market) it had better be awesome PvP and it wasnt.  It wasnt bad, but it wasnt awesome.


    It also seemed low tech compared to WoW.  WoW looked better, ran better, and had smoother gameplay.   It felt AAA alright, and WoW was the major leagues.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,123Member Uncommon

    I think Jacobs was determined to NOT make DAOC 2. No matter what the consequences. Heck they didn't even have keep fights and sieges  in the game in beta, until there was a tester revolt  causing them to shut down beta for 6 months, until they put the feature in the game...half done and poorly executed.

    I think players were hoping for the next generation of DAOC an didn't get it.I also think all developers were required to undergo a lobotomy as a condiction of employment ..if they had any connection with DAOC. Seriously....all the hard lessions and failures of DAOC were completly ignored.Player feedback in beta..uggh.I have never seen such controls restricting/limiting  player feedback. It seemed to me Jacobs had the entire game figured out and was determined to do it HIS way.He got HIS way...and millions of dollars in losses for this employer.

    Others brought in after the debacle.....just don't have a clue what great RVR is all about.Today on other games....SWTOR for clue and frankly no interest in RVR as you can readily see with the Illum mess.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member

    Its pretty simple, there was really only ONE thing to do at end game and everything in between was just massive repetition.  To me affter about a week I felt like I had been trapped in one of Wows battlegrounds but couldnt leave que.

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member

    Originally posted by snapfusion

    Its pretty simple, there was really only ONE thing to do at end game and everything in between was just massive repetition.  To me affter about a week I felt like I had been trapped in one of Wows battlegrounds but couldnt leave que.

    Something along that line, yes.

    Guys just imagine DAoC with modern grafics and new content right from the start... aka DAoC2...



  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,572Member Uncommon
    they could, make this game f2p now, close it down ffs! or. make something like a station pass where you get to play both tor and war for a competitive price.

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,123Member Uncommon

    I was watching some new videos from ArcheAge beta.. Perhaps its going to take some non US producers/designers to give the x DAOC/WAR players what they want ? Perhaps we need new leadership for the RVR genre ?

  • tussauctussauc Mound, MNPosts: 147Member

    It failed because the people handling it just left it to rot, they didn't bother to add any content or make any attempt to improve the game beyond small balance patches that still did not work.

  • WaizerWaizer BarryPosts: 125Member

    I loved the game for a long long time and did really enjoy my time playing it. The problem was for a start their were 2 factions. If your focus is rvr then y not copy the best pvp/rvr game of the last decade (daoc, as voted in many surveys) and put in 3 factions? The benefit of it is that with 3 factions server population imbalances don't become as much as a problem, and lets face it in WAR when 1 side had a numerical advantage you were screwed. Also in a warhammer world 3 factions would have been very easy to do.


    The other problem was too many servers to begin with and not merging them fast enough after. They expected servers to stay full for alot longer than they realistically would. The end result was that some were ghost towns after the first month and that made even more people quit faster so the population took 2 real big hits: the end of the first free month and then when ppl became bored a few weeks later on empty servers.


    Good game as I said, and I really wish it worked. But perhaps some dev out there will see what went wrong in WAR from the players perspective and will learn valuable lessons... 3 FACTIONS = WIN FGS!

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,123Member Uncommon

    Watch a game that wants to be DAOC's successor.......DOMINUS.The developers love DAOC and are attempting to make the re incarnation of DAOC .

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    yup. endgame failed to retain the playerbase. also sieges and whatnot never worked how they should have from what I heard.


    quality...just wasnt there. it got eaten alive by competition. it was championed as a wow-killer, and when it wiped to wow it got ditched.


    the 2007-era mmo's all offered one thing above all else: killing wow. when they failed, they had nothing to offer that players idnt already get in wow. So unlike wow which had its guild structure and community and familiarity in place, the new mmo's crumbled without any certainty about the future or any form of communiy to hold them together.

    Have to agree completely with this one i remember seeing everything from press members to fanbois all yelling the same thing, that his will kill WoW.

    Now we see how SWTOR was going to do it by fanbois only to find that at launch they released a beta (they just didn't call it that symanitcs) and they allowed pvp to be completely messed up and exploitable. It's times like these that i wonder what the world were devs thinking when they were making these games and why didn't they change their strategy right after launch when they knew it wouldn't last the way it was at launch.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    I too loved the game for the first 6 months!!

    But I'm a PvPer and that part of WAR just wasnt any good. The world PvP, something they advertised, was practicaly non existent. The BG's became repetitive.

    The PvE was fun, but linear and lots of hand holding. No exploration at all.

    Too bad really

  • WaizerWaizer BarryPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    Watch a game that wants to be DAOC's successor.......DOMINUS.The developers love DAOC and are attempting to make the re incarnation of DAOC .

    did not know that, will have a look

    *hopes raised*

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,123Member Uncommon

    DOMINUS has a pretty good web site and there's info on it here on this site as well. I would be stunned if the game didn't launch in less than 6 months.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    if i was them instead of closing the whole game i would find a new paiement method .cause when it launched graphic were awsome ,i would change the guy deciding about war tho!check same crew go to swtor oops same issue so the issue isnt war or swtor the issue is the crew on both of those they need new blood !and one other aspect for a mmo to be considered mmo by player it has to be massive population wise they can see .if it isnt it is just another skyrim and people will go to skyrim instead of mmo lol all being equal

  • DragimDragim Boring, KSPosts: 867Member Uncommon

    They failed because they chose to fail in my opinon.

    In beta, they had a LOT of awesome ideas, that they chose just not to impliment, or they implimented them half arsed.

    Like...the "stuff" you could attach to your armor, that was VERY lackluster, but in beta the idea for it was AWESOME.

    Cities....There were SUPPOSED to be 3 major cities on each side, they never made it past 1 for each side.

    The RvR lakes/reason for doing seiges were kinda botched.  Seiges were more of RvDoor than RvR.  Often times you would find yourself breaking down a keep door, with the entire force of your enemy just sitting in the Lord room waiting for you.  (I guess this kinda makes sense.)

    But there was a serious lack of actual OPEN PvP...(open being, you fighting without one side hiding behind keep doors.)

    They HAD good ideas, but implimented them very poorly.  I wonder if the game company who owns WAR had something to do with that...


    I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    great pvp ... then that was it. even hardcore pvp'rs need something else to do besides pvp. there really were no viable options created for this purpose. people got bored and moved on.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • KinchyleKinchyle Hugo, ORPosts: 309Member

    The Warhammer universe is HUGE! Yet they decided to give us a dumbed down, dumber down version of it and said "have fun". You could literally make a billion games based on the Warhammer universe (including the 40k). We got the red headed stepchild version.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,123Member Uncommon laughing. I got so jazzed thinking about all the fun I had in DAOC...i'm DL'ing the game and re-subbing until I get a DOMINUS beta invite...or GW2...or  SECRET WORLD......Planetside 2..or........

  • randomtrandomt no thanks, BCPosts: 1,178Member Uncommon

    It was basically a heavily wowified version of daoc.. just not fun: way too basic

    Went from massive multidirection sieges involving catapults, sneaks and all sorts of interesting strategies to: Rush the door!


    It felt like the pvp was very barebones and thrown in as an afterthought, yet it was the very meat of the game..



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