I think the reason ToR is retaining its popularity is that it appeals to the the RPG audiance rather

udorus · January 2012

Very true but its their big new and massivly expensive mmo and it is not having a happy start, plus i would love to know how much they have promised lucas arts and how that deal is structured.

TheLizardbones · January 2012

Originally posted by udorus
Very true but its their big new and massivly expensive mmo and it is not having a happy start, plus i would love to know how much they have promised lucas arts and how that deal is structured.

They've actually mentioned their deal with Lucas Arts. Once they've recouped the money spent on the game, LA gets 35% of the take.

udorus · January 2012

ah nice cheers lizard.

Sovrath · January 2012

Originally posted by Jason2444

n I will accept it's demise in MY gaming world because my fun is all I give a shit about.

Yes, I've heard this drivvle before with every failed WoW clone.

And even if you think SWTOR is fun, there are things about SWTOR that make it FACUTALLY bad. Like the fact that AA had to be patch in AFTER release.

The fact that kill swapping is legal

Not good true

The fact that Bioware didn't have the foresight to implement high res textures in the final release

who cares? not even remotely game breaking

The fact that most quests are shared between classes

again, who cares? manygames have it so that you have to use all the same quests. And if there aren't quests then you grind the same mobs.

The fact that the UI can't customized

not game breaking at all. A shame but the game is completely playable with the current UI.

The fact that there are still numerous bugs

I can't name any game that doesn't ave numerous bugs. Even LOTRO which had a very good launch. There were so many exploits that existed in many of the instanced missions that it wasn't funny. These will be fixed over time.

The fact that all the above is true DESPITE the fact that Bioware was given hundreds of millions of dollars and 7 years.

There are things that shoud have been included like guild banks, scaleable UI, etc, but it's hyperbole to think that your reasons are anything more than annoyances and you are blowing them way out of proportion. Either that or we gamers have become precious little hot house flowers who can't adapt to anything anymore.

Oh and even one of the analysts sticking up for SWTOR said they projected 800k subs while at the same time projecting 3 million copies sold by the end of march.

800k subs is a good deal. Yes, the game cost quite a bit more but if they are correct on needing 500k subs to make the game profitable then that's pretty good.

Thats less than a 30% retention rate. Sleep well

you might want to stop with your "factually bad". Bad for you maybe but let's not blow certain things out of proportion.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

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pingo · January 2012

TOR is a really well made game. thats the bottom of it. a lot of work went into it. even if its not your style its clear they invested soooo muuccchhh into this game.

i was very impressed, but i cant play due to school/work. this is a great, great game. thats the bottom line.

BarCrow · January 2012

Originally posted by Jason2444

Originally posted by BarCrow
What?...what? Didn't you read the linked stats? I was going by the stats that were posted on this thread....not your forum adventures. I'll accept that it is a failure....or no longer a viable gaming option..when I can't see anyone playing or can't complete groups quests at all...on my server. When the game is no longer entertaining me..then I will accept it's demise in MY gaming world because my fun is all I give a shit about.

Yes, I've heard this drivvle before with every failed WoW clone.

And even if you think SWTOR is fun, there are things about SWTOR that make it FACUTALLY bad. Like the fact that AA had to be patch in AFTER release.

The fact that kill swapping is legal

The fact that Bioware didn't have the foresight to implement high res textures in the final release

The fact that most quests are shared between classes

The fact that the UI can't customized

The fact that there are still numerous bugs

The fact that all the above is true DESPITE the fact that Bioware was given hundreds of millions of dollars and 7 years.

Oh and even one of the analysts sticking up for SWTOR said they projected 800k subs while at the same time projecting 3 million copies sold by the end of march.

Thats less than a 30% retention rate. Sleep well

Love how someone liking a game is "drivvle"...when that is..in fact...all someone should look for in a game. I wont counter point any further as all your points have also been spewn out on every SWTOR forum there is by people who still expect an MMO to defy the nature of it's construction and release as a perfect..bug free masterpiece that should satisfy all..

just a fyi.... For any of your future posts on any forums you peruse ....the word is "drivel"

Skymourne · January 2012

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jason2444

n I will accept it's demise in MY gaming world because my fun is all I give a shit about.

Yes, I've heard this drivvle before with every failed WoW clone.

And even if you think SWTOR is fun, there are things about SWTOR that make it FACUTALLY bad. Like the fact that AA had to be patch in AFTER release.

The fact that kill swapping is legal

Not good true

The fact that Bioware didn't have the foresight to implement high res textures in the final release

who cares? not even remotely game breaking

The fact that most quests are shared between classes

again, who cares? manygames have it so that you have to use all the same quests. And if there aren't quests then you grind the same mobs.

The fact that the UI can't customized

not game breaking at all. A shame but the game is completely playable with the current UI.

The fact that there are still numerous bugs

I can't name any game that doesn't ave numerous bugs. Even LOTRO which had a very good launch. There were so many exploits that existed in many of the instanced missions that it wasn't funny. These will be fixed over time.

The fact that all the above is true DESPITE the fact that Bioware was given hundreds of millions of dollars and 7 years.

There are things that shoud have been included like guild banks, scaleable UI, etc, but it's hyperbole to think that your reasons are anything more than annoyances and you are blowing them way out of proportion. Either that or we gamers have become precious little hot house flowers who can't adapt to anything anymore.

Oh and even one of the analysts sticking up for SWTOR said they projected 800k subs while at the same time projecting 3 million copies sold by the end of march.

800k subs is a good deal. Yes, the game cost quite a bit more but if they are correct on needing 500k subs to make the game profitable then that's pretty good.

Thats less than a 30% retention rate. Sleep well

you might want to stop with your "factually bad". Bad for you maybe but let's not blow certain things out of proportion.

I've been watching this thread with interest over the past couple of days, and what i can see here are two vastly different camps. People refer to it as Hater vs Fanboi ( which i despise deeply, no matter what game is being discussed ), Sandbox vs Themepark, but i'd just like to call it from my experience, Semi-Happy Customer that wants to stick with his/her game thus producing loyalty to it vs. Extremely Disgruntled Customer who essentially is highly disappointed with the game and would love to see it fall flat on it's face. I have been in both of these boats, and after experiencing month 1 with some beta sprinkled in, realized that i'm in an entirely different boat than either of these.

I loved my first character and had fun my first way up to 50. I was then not at all happy with the game after that. The quoted exchange above is an example of sides that i have been on, and arguments that i've either said or felt, both ways. Firstly, attempting to fend off people that didn't like my game, then the disgust i felt initially after my one month experience. Now i am simply going to watch the game, yet again, as if it's in Beta, because i can guarantee you that anyone making that argument would not be out of line. Yet i still have hope for what it may be one day.

The issues addressed in the above quote are valid and absolute deal breakers for some people. The opinion that the product should have been better is valid. The opinion that the game is fine from the people that enjoy it is also valid ( although i don't agree ). Different strokes for different folks, but the fellow above is correct: numbers are right there. 30 percent retention would be horrific.

People refer to the realm status constantly to prove points about numbers being high or low. If you love the game, fine, but you cannot tell me that you don't feel absolutely isolated and alone when playing this product. I was in a guild with over 400 people in it on Jekk Jekk, and regardless of the chat going on...i have never felt more alone in my life playing an online game. That was enough for me. Bugs aside, kill swapping aside, the myriad of other issues in and out of the game including the atrocious customer service; THIS GAME WAS NOT READY...and neither was the staff. It will continue to need a great deal of work before i ever drop another cent on it, which is why i wait and watch. I want it to be great, but it's not worthy of the title Star Wars at this point. Not in my eyes at least.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

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sanosukex · January 2012

Originally posted by pingo
TOR is a really well made game. thats the bottom of it. a lot of work went into it. even if its not your style its clear they invested soooo muuccchhh into this game.

i was very impressed, but i cant play due to school/work. this is a great, great game. thats the bottom line.

funny because it doesn't feel like that much time was invested.. it feels like they got in over there heads and scrapped a bunch of ideas then couldn't recover in time for launch.. thats how the game feels to me..

for me attention to detail is important when I play games.. for me it makes me feel the developers put a lot of love and care into there product.. this is probably by far one of the worst games I have ever played when it comes to attention to detail.. now this stuff might not bother or even be noticed by many people but its a pretty huge deal to me.. this review has a lot of good examples on how bad the attention to detail is(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94)

Votan · January 2012

You can not judge a games health by full or light server status because the company in this case Bioware controls those levels. They can set them to what ever they want. We all have 0 actual knowledge of player retention, subs, and player population numbers that makes a server full or light.

kartool · January 2012

Originally posted by udorus
Well as EA's stock price has bombed by over 25% since the end of November it would suggest that everything is not rosy with SWTOR especially given the exchange it trades on has surged by over 20% in the same period. Still i'm no analyst but there is no disputing facts.

The stock thing is bullshit. Video game company stock fell across the board, not just EA.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/videogame-stocks-fall-on-weak-december-sales-2012-01-13

Nilden · January 2012

TLDR

RPG audience and traditional RPG player are the same thing. Am I alone in owning and xbox360 or ps3 and having played mass effect and dragon age? SWTOR has serious flaws. It's not what I want in a MMORPG but playing the story to 50 was worth the box price.

smh_alot · January 2012

Originally posted by I_Return

This game is so great that it needed a massive patch, lock down their forums cause of stability issues with the worlds largest game publishers servers , and ban users for complianing as well as magically remove the unsubscription button......Sounds like a real winner to me

/sarcasm off.

Maybe you should have stated 'hater/TOR basher mode off' instead of 'sarcasm off', it would have been a more appropriate description of general stance and content >.>

Every MMO has had its stability and lag issues, and patches to improve those, nothing new there. So far, SWTOR seems to be able to handle with larger ingame player numbers than a lot of other MMO's, nothing extraordinarily excellent in it nor as bad as some other AAA MMO's. Users get banned and complain all the time on all kinds of forums official game forums and other kinds, heck, I bet that even on these forums people will complain about unjust banning. As for the unscubscription button, hordes of people had no 'magic disappearance' at all, but hey, I wouldn't be surprised if people use addons like script blocker on their browser and stuff like that happens.

But nice sum up you did there. I mean, it's not as if people could come up with sortlike biased negative criticism sum ups regarding all other MMO's, right? -_-

Cavod · January 2012

Originally posted by Gibbonici

Originally posted by ZizouX

I think people have become jaded with over exposure to WoW and wow-clones alike for the past 7 years.

I don't think it's the mmo, I think the community has changed.

A lot of people say Rift is better than SWTOR. I liked rift but quit for my own reasons.... If that's the case, that Rift came with all of the things you expect in a AAA mmo, why isn't more successful than it is? It's making a profit but not retaining the subscriber base that is in line with the praise it's getting.

It's not SWTOR that's a "problem" it's the genre and people become tired of MMOS in general. People want to recapture their favorite mmo experience and that's a cup of expectation that can never be filled.

I enjoy SWTOR for what it is....an extension of Kotor and Mass Effect, with pvp and mmo components. I play 2 hours a night, because of career and family and absolutely love it.

I totally agree.

I wonder if those people have ever considered asking the question "are MMOs still for me or have I out grown them".

[Deleted User] · January 2012

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[Deleted User] · January 2012

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ste2000 · January 2012

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally
Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

Marked, pray your words don't return to haunt you.

Currently there are 16 American servers for Rift. 100 plus American servers for Tor.

yes................. 16 servers half empty (or half full) that's why people are asking for a merge already.........1 month after launch.

I don't think my words will return to hunt me, I am quite confident we will see server mergers in 2 months.

Where you get these numbers at?? Took a screenie one day and seen some at light did ya? Lets see the link on this one, I'm callin BS on it. Lets see ALL these people screaming for merges already (oh and yes I do read the official forums too, lets see your proof here).

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

Nilden · January 2012

Originally posted by I_Return

Originally posted by nilden

TLDR

RPG audience and traditional RPG player are the same thing. Am I alone in owning and xbox360 or ps3 and having played mass effect and dragon age? SWTOR has serious flaws. It's not what I want in a MMORPG but playing the story to 50 was worth the box price.

no , they aren't.

Oh please explian it to me then, how am I not both the RPG audience and a traditiolal RPG player? Is there a group of people who only ever buy single player RPGs and no other games? Wait maybe it's the table top guys playing D&D! It may seem crazy but maybe someone could play D&D, MMORPGs single player RPGS and be both. I dunno I might be nuts.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

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Nilden · January 2012

And I play both. Thank you for the elegant explanation proving my point.

Jason2444 · January 2012

The first step in an MMO death is people accept that it isn't the WoW killer everyone was hoping for.

I think were well past that stage. Now people just want SWTOR to stop losing subs

Brodter · January 2012

I don't care much for WoW anymore and I have no interest in first person shooters. StarWars ToR is the game I have been waiting for.

sanosukex · January 2012

Originally posted by ste2000

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

I just went through Dromund Kaas with my sith sorc.. could not find a group for shadow spawn or Personal Challenge.. I was in that planet for 4+ hours last night and could not get a group.. I ran into several people tried to get them to help and group but they didn't even respond to me. I ran across a group of people doing shadow spawn and asked each one of them for an invite(there were 3) not one even responded to me and went on there way.. I was actually able to get all the pieces I needed for the quest by just following them but I couldn't beat the sith spawn thing at the end since its in an instanced area...

pretty sad I can't find a group a month into a brand new MMO.. oh I also couldn't get a group for the black talon.. spammed chat for about 30 min then just gave up.

I'm imperial(obviously) in The shadowlands(was always longest que PVE server during pre-launch) and see no reason why I should be having problems getting groups i feel bad for republic....

eddieg50 · January 2012

between the millions of bioware fans (I am one of them) and people who love good story lines, not to mention people who love the star wars story line, this game will have a big population for a long time. Bioware is allready cranking out more content. I loved Kotar, mass effect 2, baldurs gate shadows of amin, dragon age , fallout 3 and now SWTOR

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I think the reason ToR is retaining its popularity is that it appeals to the the RPG audiance rather

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