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The clone wars are over

RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon

We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/

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Comments

  • zipzapzipzap HelsinkiPosts: 123Member

    x-fire shows trends that is true...

    but it doesnt show facts

     

    PS. played the first free month of swtor not more. something is missing from it if you ask me

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    Im amazed people still have the balls to quote X-Fire as representative of the entire community of a game, it's representative of X-fire users (which speaks volumes in itself), thats all.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common

    Keep dreaming. Themeparks are here to stay. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer SzarvasPosts: 517Member Common

    @OP

    I just hope you are right for the sake of all mmo players.

  • ClywdClywd HeidenheimPosts: 258Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Keep dreaming. Themeparks are here to stay. 

    No way - look at all the upcoming big titles, not one of the big devs is betting anymore on pure themeparks.

    Currently playing: EQ1
    Ruptura Draconis
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • WarsongWarsong Dallas, TXPosts: 563Member

    You don't need x-fire to prove anything, all you need is to be honest and be in touch with guilds and gamers from the servers in any game.

    Member inactivity seems to be in the range of 50%+ over the last month and the complaints keep coming. I see it in general chat constantly, I hear it from players from guilds server wide, I hear it from players/guilds on other servers.

    Bottem line is there isn't much "entertainment" after you have enjoyed the story. If you didn't pay much attention to the story and played spaced through the questing etc. then the end game PvE, Crafting, PvP leaves tons to be desired during the midst of broken things/bugs/balancing issues.

    End game PvP here has now turned into standing around trading kills instead of organized competitive battles. /yawn

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgTaWNP2HJ0

     

  • RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Im amazed people still have the balls to quote X-Fire as representative of the entire community of a game, it's representative of X-fire users (which speaks volumes in itself), thats all.

     

    I will quote myself:

    "You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph."

     

    I have been around long enough to see the furious denials and the subsequent crawling back, admitting the truth. I can not name a single MMO failure, that could not have been predicted by reading x-fire.

    Can you?

  • PelaajaPelaaja HevonkuusiPosts: 697Member

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Im amazed people still have the balls to quote X-Fire as representative of the entire community of a game, it's representative of X-fire users (which speaks volumes in itself), thats all.

    First of all, no one said it's representative of the entire community. It's showing trend. The same trend (you can argue about the measurement technique, but it shows the same trend) you can find from torarena's server watch.

    Second, this game was aimed towards the mainstream players. Not towards MMO-players (we aren't mainstream, wake up) or hardcore players. Mainstream, as I see it, will consume the product and get another one. Montly fee may become a factor here, that's just not common for people who play FPS or SRPG games (the mainstream to me) to pay monthly fee.

    3rd, buzz in MMORPG.com has gone noticeably down. To me that is a very good indicator about the hit and run this game has suffered.

    I'm not planning to play GW2, but I'm certainly going to enter the buzz that starts once it nears launch. Interesting to see how it succeeds.

    image

  • PapaB34RPapaB34R StockholmPosts: 300Member

    Originally posted by Warsong

    You don't need x-fire to prove anything, all you need is to be honest and be in touch with guilds and gamers from the servers in any game.

    Member inactivity seems to be in the range of 50%+ over the last month and the complaints keep coming. I see it in general chat constantly, I hear it from players from guilds server wide, I hear it from players/guilds on other servers.

    Bottem line is there isn't much "entertainment" after you have enjoyed the story. If you didn't pay much attention to the story and played spaced through the questing etc. then the end game PvE, Crafting, PvP leaves tons to be desired during the midst of broken things/bugs/balancing issues.

     

    Hard mode flash points, 3-4 lvl 50 only fp, 1 new cool one and 1 raid/ala operation heroic flashy, Ilum daily missions and pvp. Dont know what you been up to but Im reaching the point were Ive been online longer since I maxxed out then I did as  I leveled up/aka following the story.

    Also why would you be satisfied with completing just 1 story arc?

    image

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Im amazed people still have the balls to quote X-Fire as representative of the entire community of a game, it's representative of X-fire users (which speaks volumes in itself), thats all.

    Who are you, oracle of truth? Maybe people dont agree that X-Fire is not representative.

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Rasputin
    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.
    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.
    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).
    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/

    Do you know what stupid is?
    Stupid is to take the time played as measure how successfull a mmo is!

    FYI - The Users have decreased from 11.6k to 8.2k and that means atm SWTOR has a still 70% of its all time high which is pretty good even after month one.
    It is still 8 to 10 times bigger than the closest competition behind it!

    Panick when there is a reason please!

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • SheepduckSheepduck Hicksville, NYPosts: 32Member
    I've been playing MMOs and just games in general on the computer for a long time and have never used that x-fire crap program, people actually use it?
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    No one can deny that more and more people every week is talking about that they will unsub TOR, 13 of my guild members jumped over to TOR only 2 are still subbed for the second month.

    Let's see what happends when second monthly sub is aproaching and see how many will unsub, I bet there will be plenty.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • GibboniciGibbonici LeedsPosts: 472Member Common

    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    The MMO industry has always been free of quest and level-centric games. The problem is that whenever anything different has been tried it's generally been crushed by a lack of interest on the part of players. I don't like it any more than you do, but even if TOR loses 75% of its players it will probably still be more populated than the biggest sandbox out there.

     

    And that's why there'll always be themeparks.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Reading, PAPosts: 1,213Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Gibbonici

    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    The MMO industry has always been free of quest and level-centric games. The problem is that whenever anything different has been tried it's generally been crushed by a lack of interest on the part of players. I don't like it any more than you do, but even if TOR loses 75% of its players it will probably still be more populated than the biggest sandbox out there.

     

    And that's why there'll always be themeparks.

    If someone put a hundreds of millions behind a sandbox and made it work, I bet there would be tons of interest.

    The problem is sandbox's tend to NOT WORK and be underfunded.

    Of course, it's a lot easier to get hundreds of millions for a project with an IP like Star Wars and just try to mimic things from WoW and single-player Bioware games that have proven to be successful, rather than risk it on some new open idea that's dependent on players to work.

    I'd love to see it happen though.  The month or two I played Darkfall was some of my favorite MMO experience, despite the horrible grind and the obscenely OP veterans, the bad graphics and the cheating.  It really felt like a virtual world where I got to choose what my character did, and choices and alliances mattered.  I haven't had that experience replicated in any themepark.

    SMITE: the awesomely addictive 3rd person MOBA

  • ShivamShivam MilanPosts: 465Member

    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/

    Who the f*** are these WE? and what the hell is a xfire? i might actually look into it now.

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi

    image

  • teoyaomiquiteoyaomiqui Broolyn, NYPosts: 98Member

    I don't understand what is you real point, and what is it you want to happen to the mmo industry. There is a lot of sandboxes out there, what is your most favorite mmo? lets say XXX, well play it and enjoy it, or you are saying that for the game to be good it has to be played by millions at any given moment like wow? or atleast has 1/X of wow's population? Or, current sandbox games, suck, but you like the idea to be developed, and therefore, you don't know if sandbox model is really possible, since there was/is no really succesful example?


    Originally posted by Thorqemada

     




    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/




     

    Do you know what stupid is?

    Stupid is to take the time played as measure how successfull a mmo is!

    FYI - The Users have decreased from 11.6k to 8.2k and that means atm SWTOR has a still 70% of its all time high which is pretty good even after month one.

    It is still 8 to 10 times bigger than the closest competition behind it!

    Panick when there is a reason please!

    You don't understand, it doesn't show the 'real numbers' it shows how people are feeling about the game, it shows the trend, and 30% drop in first month for mmo means, that it is failing like other games did before.

    You can as well drop in swtor arena graphs, metacritic user scores, the fact that the game is out from the best 10 rated games on MMORPG.com.

    add constant compains, real expoits that make pvp aspect of the game unplayable, the amount of bugs it has.

    The game still is very popular, because of huge hype around it, around 2m copies sold... But... you know

     

  • WarsongWarsong Dallas, TXPosts: 563Member

    Originally posted by PapaB34R

    Originally posted by Warsong

    You don't need x-fire to prove anything, all you need is to be honest and be in touch with guilds and gamers from the servers in any game.

    Member inactivity seems to be in the range of 50%+ over the last month and the complaints keep coming. I see it in general chat constantly, I hear it from players from guilds server wide, I hear it from players/guilds on other servers.

    Bottem line is there isn't much "entertainment" after you have enjoyed the story. If you didn't pay much attention to the story and played spaced through the questing etc. then the end game PvE, Crafting, PvP leaves tons to be desired during the midst of broken things/bugs/balancing issues.

     

    Hard mode flash points, 3-4 lvl 50 only fp, 1 new cool one and 1 raid/ala operation heroic flashy, Ilum daily missions and pvp. Dont know what you been up to but Im reaching the point were Ive been online longer since I maxxed out then I did as  I leveled up/aka following the story.

    Also why would you be satisfied with completing just 1 story arc?

    The hard modes and ops are okay but seriously, they are just glorified lewt dropping quests that are the same thing over and over and over......after doing the same one 3-5+ times it really starts to get boring. Using that logic then  why don't we just level the same class and hear the same story till max then delete them and do it again?

    And sure I "could" make an alt of every class and do their stories but what then?. I am an experienced gamer playing with other experienced gamers and we tend to look for more diversity and something that constanly changes like "PvP" can and does. Which is something no PvE content can really offer concenring "end game"

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/

    The thread title got me.. Very funny.

    Hopefully holds truth too, the genre needs to float back to the more freeform, sandboxes, way...

    Remove some of the grind and in more of the social..

    Slow down leveling and make it about the "journey".. Voice overs are probably a good idea.. Keep those..

    Cinematics better not outshine in game too much. Keep the content coming and the coding tight..

    Most importantly and most under-rated.. COMMUNTY M'FN SERVICE..

    DON'T BE LIKE SW:TOR- BW. BE MORE LIKE RIFT-TRION..

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • dreamsofwardreamsofwar bangorPosts: 468Member

    Can somebody clarify for me how Xfire shows trends when the majority of mmo users don't actually use it?

  • ShivamShivam MilanPosts: 465Member

    Originally posted by teoyaomiqui

    Originally posted by Thorqemada

     




    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/





     

    Do you know what stupid is?

    Stupid is to take the time played as measure how successfull a mmo is!

    FYI - The Users have decreased from 11.6k to 8.2k and that means atm SWTOR has a still 70% of its all time high which is pretty good even after month one.

    It is still 8 to 10 times bigger than the closest competition behind it!

    Panick when there is a reason please!

    You don't understand, it doesn't show the 'real numbers' it shows how people are feeling about the game, it shows the trend, and 30% drop in first month for mmo means, that it is failing like other games did before.

    You can as well drop in swtor arena graphs, metacritic user scores, the fact that the game is out from the best 10 rated games on MMORPG.com.

    add constant compains, real expoits that make pvp aspect of the game unplayable, the amount of bugs it has.

    THe game still is very popular, because of huge hype around it, around 2m copies sold... But... you know

    The hype dies down once you buy and play the game. First month is over and now game is not just running around on pure hype. The game is still popular maybe because it is actually a fun game? how about that?

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi

    image

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    The trend is that people are not using SWTOR and Xfire concurrently. Don't read too much into it. Noone I know uses Xfire.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon

    The issue is not so much quest centric games, its end-game raid/pvp gear orientated slop that is the problem.  Agree though SWTOR is a confused mess of a game (imo) and will be a good lesson for future development houses.  Even now you can start to see the signs with SWTOR (ignoring all the existing known issues ); balancing issues, debate focusing on gear and nerfing, lack of focus on social aspects, 0 lessons have been learned from WOW in this regard.

    GW2 model looks like a great way forward for themeparks, Archeage potentially for themepark/sandbox hybrids.  

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,967Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Rasputin

    We have reached the end of the line for EQ-clones. The failure of SW-TOR will finally set the MMO free from the stranglehold, that quest- and level-centric games has held on it for almost a decade.

    You can say what you want about X-Fire, but it does show trends. You have been able to read every single failure so far in the X-Fire graph. Devs and fanboys will furiously deny, coming up with all kinds of explanations, but a few months later, when the financial result is out or the servers go too empty, they come back and admit it.

    On X-Fire SW-TOR has almost been halved after the first month. It is actually one of the most violent downturns I have witnessed in my time following these trends (I began before X-Fire, with much more uncertain graphs).

    http://www.xfire.com/games/swtor/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic/

    In TORs case we can't be sure of that yet, and frankly did Trion get in a 100 millions on Rift a year so calling it a failure isn´t true.

    We will know if TOR did well or not in december when it have been out a year.

    And even if it do fail that does not neccesarily mean that MMO devs stop doing what they have been doing for years now. You also need a huge success that do otherwise.

    GW2 might be that success but otherwise we have to wait for another game and that might take years (my bet is on class 4).

    Since MMOs take around 5 years to make the realization that your game is dated and doing something to change that before launch is not the same thing.

  • ShivamShivam MilanPosts: 465Member

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    The issue is not so much quest centric games, its end-game raid/pvp gear orientated slop that is the problem.  Agree though SWTOR is a confused mess of a game (imo) and will be a good lesson for future development houses.  Even know you can start to see the signs with SWTOR (ignoring all the existing known issues ); balancing issues, debate focusing on gear and nerfing, lack of focus on social aspects, 0 lessons have been learned from WOW in this regard.

    GW2 model looks like a great way forward for themeparks, Archeage potentially for themepark/sandbox hybrids.  

    Yeah because GW2 will not suffer from balancing issues, nerfing cycles, grinding, carrot on stick to keep people playing  so that they buy the next expansion pack.

    Some of you live in your own make believe world.

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi

    image

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This discussion has been closed.