Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

TERA: En Masse Responds to NCSoft Lawsuit

13»

Comments

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Letyson



    Originally posted by Sovrath



    Oh I know full well about craftsmanship and creating. I'm a composer.

    Now the thing is, if I create something for someone I make sure that it's something that I'm "ok" with giving away.

    If someone asks me to write them a piece I'm not going to write them something that I will later use in something else.

    What these creators are asked to do is to brainstorm and use their experience to create assets for their employer. That's their job.

    Anything they create they need to be comfortable parting with it. If for some reason they come up with amazing ideas that they don't want NC to have they need to leave the company and depending on their non-compete agreement, proceed in a way that is lawful.

    The point is, if you want to be a professional you have to act like a professional. Because one can act however one wants but after a while that will come back to bite you in the butt.

    If one doesn't like the terms of a contract then don't sign it. It's as simple as that.






     

    What if you were under a company making music, and you had signed a contract with them, and you just made some of your greastest work of life, but the company wanted to take your music in another dirrection, would you be fine with that? Even when you had strong connection to that project.

    We don't know what actually were written in their contract when they were under NCsoft, but I would be surprised that a contract would be very one-sided and not take the creative work of their people under consideration.

    It doesn't matter. When you sign a contract and work for someone (by the way, the contracts signed upon both entering work with NCSoft and leaving are detailed in the court documents) you are creating work FOR THEM. I'm a commission artist and regularly develop both 2d art and 3d assets for people and have run across the situation you just mentioned, many times. But it doesn't matter. I didn't create it for me, it was a paid service, therefore it's not mine, it belongs to the person who paid me to create it. I don't get to turn around and say "Oh, but it came out so pretty!" and do whatever I like with it afterward. That's not the way real life works.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

    Originally posted by Kuro1n

    Originally posted by Ganathar

    Guys stop posting BS if you haven't read the lawsuit.

    The lawsuit doesn't mention much about the Lineage 3 code being used by TERA, it tries to make them look guilty for using similar concepts to those of Lineage 3.

    Even if it did mention something about the stolen code being used to make TERA  it would be irrelevant because NCsoft can't prove that.

    The former leaders of project Lineage 3 where found guilty because they stole the code and apparently intended to sell it but it was never proven in court that the code was used to make TERA. This is why TERA is still standing in Korea.

    Seems someone actually is updated. )

    Also afaik just one person got sentenced to 1.5year of prison.

     

       It is no where near as clear cut as this.  We'll have to see what the Supreme Court has to say.  That will be the final determinant.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Letyson

     




     

    What if you were under a company making music, and you had signed a contract with them, and you just made some of your greastest work of life, but the company wanted to take your music in another dirrection, would you be fine with that? Even when you had strong connection to that project.

    We don't know what actually were written in their contract when they were under NCsoft, but I would be surprised that a contract would be very one-sided and not take the creative work of their people under consideration.

    Letyson, that's how it works. That's what being a professional in a creative field is about.

    Here's one, you are an artist and graphic designer and you are hired to create assets for a company and you do the best work of your life. It still belongs to the company. If they look at your work and say "you know, I lik it but it needs more cowbell" then you do it.

    that's really how it works.

    edit: the trick is to weigh what you want to create for your employer and what you want to keep for yourself.

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon

    It is called Plagerism guys and it is very serious. If you do it in school you get expelled. If you do it at work you get fired and if a company does it they get hit with lawsuits. There is no doubt about the guilt here. TERA is Lingeage 3 the Stolen Project. BHS got caught red handed.

  • GanatharGanathar MelbournePosts: 143Member

    Originally posted by Eliandal

    Originally posted by Kuro1n


    Originally posted by Ganathar

    Guys stop posting BS if you haven't read the lawsuit.

    The lawsuit doesn't mention much about the Lineage 3 code being used by TERA, it tries to make them look guilty for using similar concepts to those of Lineage 3.

    Even if it did mention something about the stolen code being used to make TERA  it would be irrelevant because NCsoft can't prove that.

    The former leaders of project Lineage 3 where found guilty because they stole the code and apparently intended to sell it but it was never proven in court that the code was used to make TERA. This is why TERA is still standing in Korea.

    Seems someone actually is updated. )

    Also afaik just one person got sentenced to 1.5year of prison.

     

       It is no where near as clear cut as this.  We'll have to see what the Supreme Court has to say.  That will be the final determinant.



    Well... maybe NCsoft can prove it, if they find compelling evidence that is.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAPosts: 6,068Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Novusod

    It is called Plagerism guys and it is very serious. If you do it in school you get expelled. If you do it at work you get fired and if a company does it they get hit with lawsuits. There is no doubt about the guilt here. TERA is Lingeage 3 the Stolen Project. BHS got caught red handed.

    Did the guy at BHS take the soruce code = yes

    Was it returned = yes

    Does the Dev have the right to continue work in his field = yes

    Was Tera Developed after the codes were returned = yes

    Does NCsoft have to prove that the orginial code was being used in Tera = yes

    Has NCsoft proven that tera uses the code = no

    Plagerism has to be proven, something NCsoft has not done during the 5 years of tera's development.  They did not try to stop the game from being launched in Korea, Japan, or all the EU contries.  You got to question why only NA.

     

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • GanatharGanathar MelbournePosts: 143Member

    Originally posted by stayontarget

    Originally posted by Novusod

    It is called Plagerism guys and it is very serious. If you do it in school you get expelled. If you do it at work you get fired and if a company does it they get hit with lawsuits. There is no doubt about the guilt here. TERA is Lingeage 3 the Stolen Project. BHS got caught red handed.

    Did the guy at BHS take the soruce code = yes

    Was it returned = yes

    Does the Dev have the right to continue work in his field = yes

    Was Tera Developed after the codes were returned = yes

    Does NCsoft have to prove that the orginial code was being used in Tera = yes

    Has NCsoft proven that tera uses the code = no

    Plagerism has to be proven, something NCsoft has not done during the 5 years of tera's development.  They did not try to stop the game from being launched in Korea, Japan, or all the EU contries.  You got to question why only NA.

     



    IF I recall correctly they did sue TERA in Korea.

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon

    Judging by the majority of the responses in this and other threads, NcSoft has done an amazing job of spinning the situation.  They seem to have convinced people that Tera contains material from Lineage 3 and that a Korean court backed them up, but that simply isn't true.

    There were two allegations against K-Tera

    1- Tera contained material that belonged to NcSoft.  Case didn't go anywhere, and since then NcSoft hasn't made another move to shut down K-Tera.

    2- Material belonging to NcSoft was taken and in the possession of EM/BH.  Case was successful, 5 people were given jail time, and a fine was levied against the company along with orders to destroy the material and not use it.  Damages were overturned on appeal, case is still pending.

     

    So contrary to what popularly seems to be believed, it has never been demonstrated that Tera actually contains any material belonging to NcSoft.  In fact given their close call with an injunction, and pending damages just for having the material in their possession, they would have to be INSANE to actually use the material in Tera.

  • mackdawg19mackdawg19 Shiloh, ILPosts: 864Member

    Seeing as I work in a field were you have to sign non-competition agreements or not get hired, I will say this. They are frivalous and usually end up getting thrown out of court in the US. In other countries they don't, but in the US many have tried to use them against employess and failed. NCSoft hopefully isnt going to go into this battle with just that against them or they will lose. BTW, in the US non-competition agreements go against ammendment rights that is why they get thrown out. Read through one and you will see. 

  • GremrodGremrod Anaheim, CAPosts: 203Member Common

    Originally posted by mackdawg19

    Seeing as I work in a field were you have to sign non-competition agreements or not get hired, I will say this. They are frivalous and usually end up getting thrown out of court in the US. In other countries they don't, but in the US many have tried to use them against employess and failed. NCSoft hopefully isnt going to go into this battle with just that against them or they will lose. BTW, in the US non-competition agreements go against ammendment rights that is why they get thrown out. Read through one and you will see. 




     

    This ^^. I have had to sign them too. And have taken them to lawyers and they said the same thing. They don't hold up....

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member

    Very bad release date due to a possible GW2 release in April, May this year.

    Wish you guys the best, the starting concept was very nice - tho the nerves (no aiming anymore etc) shoo'ed me away.

    image

  • 32style32style DobrzykowPosts: 24Member

    Good luck guys n gals !

    image

  • KumaponKumapon Vancouver, BCPosts: 705Member Uncommon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    To be honest, NCsoft is scared.  Their once mighty empire is slowly crumbling, due to their horrible working conditions.  Most of their good talent is leaving by the droves. 

    Not only did 90 emplyees leave NCsoft to form BHS, but many others have left as well.  Even Jake Song left with 100 employers to form XL Games. 

    So this really has nothing to do with TERA. It's everything to scare NCsoft emplyees from leave to go to other companies. 

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by Kumapon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    To be honest, NCsoft is scared.  Their once mighty empire is slowly crumbling, due to their horrible working conditions.  Most of their good talent is leaving by the droves. 

    Not only did 90 emplyees leave NCsoft to form BHS, but many others have left as well.  Even Jake Song left with 100 employers to form XL Games. 

    So this really has nothing to do with TERA. It's everything to scare NCsoft emplyees from leave to go to other companies. 

     

    At first, I thought BHS sounded kind of scummy too, but after reading up on the details, I realized that was premature.  I agree, it sounds a lot more like NCSoft is just upset that so many employees left.  They probably wish they could have the deserters put to death for their disloyalty, but that doesn't actually make them criminals.

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kumapon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    snip

    Quite the reverse they have proven their case... twice in fact. The only thing that was mitigated at appeal was the potential damages. the defendednds where however found guilty (again). Prison sentences and fines where handed out. BHS are guilty and the 3 in question are convicted criminals. 

    I don't know how you can say that nothing has been proven, quite the reverse. I dunno how anyone can look at what has been presented  and not conclude that they are a bunch of thieves. 

  • GanatharGanathar MelbournePosts: 143Member

    Originally posted by Gorilla

    Originally posted by Kumapon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    snip

    Quite the reverse they have proven their case... twice in fact. The only thing that was mitigated at appeal was the potential damages. the defendednds where however found guilty (again). Prison sentences and fines where handed out. BHS are guilty and the 3 in question are convicted criminals. 

    I don't know how you can say that nothing has been proven, quite the reverse. I dunno how anyone can look at what has been presented  and not conclude that they are a bunch of thieves. 

    *sigh* Here we go again...

    Those people were convicted because they stole the code and wanted to sell it to another company, it was never proved that TERA has part of the code in it. NCsoft can only stop TERA if they find evidence that the Lineage 3 code was used for TERA but their lawsuit barely even mentions the Lineage 3 code.

    Edit: If they had the evidence they would make it clear in the lawsuit that TERA has part of the Lineage 3 code, but they are merely trying to sue TERA for using similar concepts.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by Ganathar

    Originally posted by Gorilla

    Quite the reverse they have proven their case... twice in fact. The only thing that was mitigated at appeal was the potential damages. the defendednds where however found guilty (again). Prison sentences and fines where handed out. BHS are guilty and the 3 in question are convicted criminals. 

    I don't know how you can say that nothing has been proven, quite the reverse. I dunno how anyone can look at what has been presented  and not conclude that they are a bunch of thieves. 

    *sigh* Here we go again...

    Those people were convicted because they stole the code and wanted to sell it to another company, it was never proved that TERA has part of the code in it. NCsoft can only stop TERA if they find evidence that the Lineage 3 code was used for TERA but their lawsuit barely even mentions the Lineage 3 code.

     

    A few people were convicted, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with BHS or Tera.  I haven't seen any indication of any correlation at all.  Aside from NCSoft's vague implications and guilt by association.   This is if you're even willing to put that much faith in the Korean legal system.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Thachsanh

    Actually, if you read the complain they filed, it stated that the Korean police the a list of file that they were taken from NCSoft offices using portable storage devices. They even have a BHS internal memo instructing how to deal with those assets. They have ex-NCSoft developers now work for BHS admitted to the police that they stole stuffs from NCSoft.

    And BHS lost the criminal court twice already. BHS founder is in jail. Heh, what more do you need?

    There's no doubt that BHS stole a lot from Lineage 3 project. But that will be resolved in criminal case.

    What interested me is how can NCSoft prove to the US court that TERA is using Lineage 3 project assets. It's not easy to do so. That's why the fight is still going on in Korea. We will see how it goes in the US though.

    This. 

    Of course the high court could overturn it all but that seems pretty unlikely.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ganathar

    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by Kumapon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    snip

    Quite the reverse they have proven their case... twice in fact. The only thing that was mitigated at appeal was the potential damages. the defendednds where however found guilty (again). Prison sentences and fines where handed out. BHS are guilty and the 3 in question are convicted criminals. 

    I don't know how you can say that nothing has been proven, quite the reverse. I dunno how anyone can look at what has been presented  and not conclude that they are a bunch of thieves. 

    *sigh* Here we go again...

    Those people were convicted because they stole the code and wanted to sell it to another company, it was never proved that TERA has part of the code in it. NCsoft can only stop TERA if they find evidence that the Lineage 3 code was used for TERA but their lawsuit barely even mentions the Lineage 3 code.

    Edit: If they had the evidence they would make it clear in the lawsuit that TERA has part of the Lineage 3 code, but they are merely trying to sue TERA for using similar concepts.

    Sure when did I say anything else? They are still criminals. Stealing stuff is criminal regardless of whether they used it or not. As you say the remaning issue is of course determining if it was used in Terra and deciding if there is consequential loss. I do hold an opinion on that but  have not really stated it. It's a much trickier thing to adjudicate. I am not one of the guys saying Terra is doomed or even that it will be delayed. I am simply saying the guys are convicted criminals which they are. 

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,771Member Uncommon

    NCsoft is Jelly.

    I hope they dont try anything stupid with ANet and GW2

    image
  • GanatharGanathar MelbournePosts: 143Member

    Originally posted by Gorilla

    Originally posted by Ganathar


    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by Kumapon

    This court case won't hold up in court. Ncsoft has been after BHS for 5 years now and they still have not been able to prove anything.  Non of the cases have been proven, and they are now before the supreme court in Korea. 

    snip

    Quite the reverse they have proven their case... twice in fact. The only thing that was mitigated at appeal was the potential damages. the defendednds where however found guilty (again). Prison sentences and fines where handed out. BHS are guilty and the 3 in question are convicted criminals. 

    I don't know how you can say that nothing has been proven, quite the reverse. I dunno how anyone can look at what has been presented  and not conclude that they are a bunch of thieves. 

    *sigh* Here we go again...

    Those people were convicted because they stole the code and wanted to sell it to another company, it was never proved that TERA has part of the code in it. NCsoft can only stop TERA if they find evidence that the Lineage 3 code was used for TERA but their lawsuit barely even mentions the Lineage 3 code.

    Edit: If they had the evidence they would make it clear in the lawsuit that TERA has part of the Lineage 3 code, but they are merely trying to sue TERA for using similar concepts.

    Sure when did I say anything else? They are still criminals. Stealing stuff is criminal regardless of whether they used it or not. As you say the remaning issue is of course determining if it was used in Terra and deciding if there is consequential loss. I do hold an opinion on that but  have not really stated it. It's a much trickier thing to adjudicate. I am not one of the guys saying Terra is doomed or even that it will be delayed. I am simply saying the guys are convicted criminals which they are. 

    Yes those 3 people were criminals and have been convicted already so they have already been punished alright?

     That part is over.

    I said that in order to stop TERA thay need to prove that part of the Lineage 3 code was used to make TERA so what you are saying doesn't matter. The 3 people stole it and were sentenced but the code hasn't been found in the game.

    Edit: so i'm glad we all understand it.

  • mysticquemysticque San Francisco, CAPosts: 33Member

    well those guys are no longer part of ncsoft and they have pursuit with the new project which is beyond control of the previous company.. literally they have no ownership with the idea as they have not provided any means of resources. honestly i dont think video games have patents anymore as they fall in a general criteria so basically we are talking about generic video games so anyone could actually copy any games unless certain mmo is completely unique like blade and soul/tera online... lineage definitely doesn't fall to the criteia.



     

    mysticque@darkhorselords.com
    www.youtube.com/411mysticque

  • yoshimutuyoshimutu naPosts: 10Member

    Originally posted by rojo6934

    NCsoft is Jelly.

    I hope they dont try anything stupid with ANet and GW2


     

    Apart from the fact that Anet is a branch of NCsoft so that would be trying to boycott their own product?

13»
Sign In or Register to comment.