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General: Content Locusts Killed My MMO

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  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common

    Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

    Kill 10 rats quests are really not mandatory in this game? Oh yes you have 15 of them and after you kill the rats you have to click on a console or something...briliant!






     




     

    Give me 10 original quest ideas will ya, that you would use in your mmo.

    But:

    no "kill 10 vermin" quests

    no "guide the npc from point A to B" quests

    no "go talk to" npc quests.

    plz give use your 10 quest as they should be?

     

    image
  • AusareAusare adamstown, MDPosts: 850Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Ausare

    Yeah WoW really killed themselves only hold 9+ million subs for what atleast 6 years.  There is more to this than just speed of leveling/content issues.  Alt viability and fun, mini games, pvp fun, social aspects, difficult of end game content, amount of end game content...

    WoW kept people for these reason even though the game was "easy" to level through.  Other newer games fail at some of these issues.

    WOW didn't "keep" all that many people, more people have played and quit WOW than are currently subscribed. (OK, I can't prove that, don't waste thread time debating the issue here)

    What they did manage to do is keep changing the game mechanics to appeal to a broader and broader player base while driving off the previous generation in the process (who likely would have left regardless, MMO's have a shelf life for everyone, no matter how fun)

    And when it started out, WOW was a much slower leveling process, my first character took me 16 days played, (to level 60) my last avatar after Cata launched got to 90 in roughly 6.5 days played.

    Even more, to get to 60 in my first character I literally had to do every quest, every dungeon and even grind a few levels to reach 60, so I missed no quest content.  In the last go around much like the OP said, I found myself rapidly leveling past the content, entirely missing some zones in the process. 

    This did not make WOW a better game IMO..... since the end game is not why I enjoyed it. (Gear grinding is not my thing)

    Same issue occurred with Rift, my first and only character, (no beta experience) reached max level in 1.5 months of pretty causal play...and there I was again, with nothing to do but grind for gear, and I stopped playing even though I had bought a 6 month sub. (no more of that I assure you)

     

     

    More are playing WoW and have kept subs to it than any other game in the West. 

    Better is your opinion.  I am going off the fact that it gets and keeps sub numbers while other games drop subs like a rock to something that is more like existing than thriving.  You can hate it all you want, but fast leveling is not bad if done right.  WoW has more than just level to nothing that games like SWTOR have.  Yes WoW leveling was slow at start while SWTOR is light speed all the way.  WoW put in legitimate time sinks that a lot (millions) seem to like. 

    To say that WoW's leveling was detrimental to the game as the Writer says is hardly accurate.  I am sure the Blizzard company sit around talking about how they wish that they have changed the game to be successful and not such a flash in the pan like just about every game after has been.

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common

    Originally posted by dinams

    People getting the best pvp gear in sw:tor in just one month

     

    nuff said




     

    nuf with the pvp already.....its a STORY diven RPG game not an arena game.....djeezes.

     

    image
  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by dinams

    People getting the best pvp gear in sw:tor in just one month

    nuff said


     

    If you guys ever hear someone who earned their Battlemaster egar the legitamate way talk about how they feel when exploits where not fixed and roll backs were not done will tell you everything you need to know why atleast the pvp servers got hammered.

     

    You simply can not treat your pvp'rs like that. I mean they were raging over nerfs in Rift or WoW, but nullifying a crap ton of hard work over night will cause more backlash.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    I notice these days that the level cap is the mark of citizenship in a themepark game - whether it's openly stated or not, there's a subconscious "anyone not at the cap is a noob" reaction.  It quietly puts a lot of pressure on a player to accelerate and I don't think it would be solved by a slower levelling curve - I feel it's more about the evolution of the player culture over the years.

    I think it would be interesting to see a game where all levelling was horizonal progression.  Each zone would be treated as an entire game onto itself - there would still be leveling, but it would be all zone-specific or mob-specific, allowing you to get that leveling feel and/or overpower a challenge that's got you stuck without getting a global power boost that renders content in other zones obsolete.   You already see this with reputation grinds and some achievements, but what if you it was applied to skills and buffs as well?  Levelless, but not progressionless.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    When it launched, what distinguished WoW from its predecessors was its structure (the famous Theme Park design) and its orderly progression of quests rather than its leveling speed, because even WoW wasn’t all that fast in terms of leveling in the early days.

    Correction:  In 2004, WoW had the shortest time-to-cap in MMO history up to that point.  That's before adjustments to mount speeds, early levels xp boost, etc.

    It's one of the things that sold the game.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.

    Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.

    It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member



    Originally posted by Distopia




    Originally posted by Zekiah



    That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.





    Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.

    It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.






     

    Everyone should feel this way that's on this forum. Obviously you're NOT playing SWTOR, or you're waiting for GW2.

    That being said, what do you think would have happened had Bioware invested the majority of its investment into a dynamic & seemless world coupled with reactive content, a skill tree based system WITHOUT levels, an open world economy crafting system similar to SWG, item decay, NO pvp-player looting, open faction pvping as soon as you get out of the starter world, and a 3 faction system?

    Definitely better than this pile of trash people were told was "amazingly better than their previous competition".



     

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Everyone should feel this way that's on this forum. Obviously you're NOT playing SWTOR, or you're waiting for GW2. 

    Aye aye sir!  We will conform to your standards.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.

    Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.

    It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.

    If you're happy with games like this then by all means, keep paying. I have a difficult time believing gamers are happy with shallow games like this but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the future of MMOs will continue to be dumbed-down to the point where they're unrecognizable any longer. That's exactly where we're headed if you and others are content.

    I'm going to hold out hope that gamers are finally waking up to what's going on, at least for awhile longer.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    [Mod Edit]

     

    Get over yourself bud,  I like SWTOR too,  I prefer sandbox games.  These things aren't mutually exclusive.  And whats the deal with something being EXACTLY like something with a caveat that its different?  There are obviously other differences as well, even if you choose not to acknowledge them.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • YsharrosYsharros Albuquerque, NMPosts: 87Member

    Writing in orange doesn't make your comments any more valid. I did NOT insult sandbox players. I DO prefer sandbox games.

    And I wonder why I'm even bothering to reply. Here, have another grinding wheel, your axe is getting a little blunt.


    And I am pwned by English this morning.

  • chiprudy11b5chiprudy11b5 gainesville, FLPosts: 3Member

    Devs dont do a thing without market analysis, projections and meetings galore about the consumer base.  They cater to the lvl fast crowd because that is their meat and butter.   A  large percentage of the player base wants to get to end game to play with their friends in the good instances, they want to get there as fast as possible because they know in a few mths their friends will have moved onto the next game.  I totally agree with you on the lvl rate but we are beating our heads against the wall.

     

    Face it, long term MMRPGs have changed, its not their fault .. its the consumers. 

  • Saxx0nSaxx0n PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd. Hell, CAPosts: 804Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SBFord

    I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

    Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

     

    I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

     

    Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

     

    precious covers it quite well below:

     

    precious328 writes:

    Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

    Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

    Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.


  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Gee, what a surprise. The first to start changing their tune. Didn't see that coming. >_>

    I'm still enjoying the game. Then again I had to reroll Imperial so I could actually play the game with other players. So haven't hit fifty yet.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • MuntzMuntz Minneapolis, MNPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    My first MMO was Anarchy Online. It certainly had a slower path to leveling. I'd say it also had a complexity that I just have not found in later games. Now a days in the raid based PvE end game you mindlessly keep raiding until you get the drop you want. Then you just put it on. The developers tweek the drop rate to keep the population raiding or eventually release the next big raid with better gear. In AO you would get an item you wanted but you might not be able to use it. There was typically a whole series of gear and buffs needed to actually be able to wear the gear.   If you didn't have the needed gear you may have to do actual non-raid content to get it. So as you said it was a major accomplishment when you actually put something new on. Now a days it just feels like you won the lottery. The level of fun in accomplishment is much higher. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.

    Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.
    It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.


    If you're happy with games like this then by all means, keep paying. I have a difficult time believing gamers are happy with shallow games like this but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the future of MMOs will continue to be dumbed-down to the point where they're unrecognizable any longer. That's exactly where we're headed if you and others are content.
    I'm going to hold out hope that gamers are finally waking up to what's going on, at least for awhile longer.



    Belief has nothing to do with reality. Zippo.

    If you want to see what gamers are happy with, look at Indie games and then take a look at mainstream blockbuster games. People don't play Call of Duty for years at a time because they are under parasitic mind control. They play it because they like it. Rift didn't make 100 million dollars last year because they made a game that people hated. They made a 100 million dollars because they made a game that people like.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Saxx0n

    Originally posted by SBFord

    I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

    Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

     

    I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

     

    Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

     

    precious covers it quite well below:

     

    precious328 writes:

    Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

    Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

    Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.


     

    Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

     

    Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

     

    While player driven content is key for continued retention,  it isn't proven anywhere that retention is higher than content driven.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb





    Everyone should feel this way that's on this forum. Obviously you're NOT playing SWTOR, or you're waiting for GW2.





    That being said, what do you think would have happened had Bioware invested the majority of its investment into a dynamic & seemless world coupled with reactive content, a skill tree based system WITHOUT levels, an open world economy crafting system similar to SWG, item decay, NO pvp-player looting, open faction pvping as soon as you get out of the starter world, and a 3 faction system?





    Definitely better than this pile of trash people were told was "amazingly better than their previous competition".










     

    What do you mean by I'm obviously not playing TOR? Because actually I am, toward your other post... I am more of a sandbox fan than anything in this genre, you saying I'm not won't change that.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Saxx0n

    I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

    From their lazy, cookie cutter restating of other player's opinions, the devs just may be right.

    But in all likelihood, both sorts of hyperbole are equally untrue.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maplestone

    I notice these days that the level cap is the mark of citizenship in a themepark game - whether it's openly stated or not, there's a subconscious "anyone not at the cap is a noob" reaction.  It quietly puts a lot of pressure on a player to accelerate and I don't think it would be solved by a slower levelling curve - I feel it's more about the evolution of the player culture over the years.

    I think it would be interesting to see a game where all levelling was horizonal progression.  Each zone would be treated as an entire game onto itself - there would still be leveling, but it would be all zone-specific or mob-specific, allowing you to get that leveling feel and/or overpower a challenge that's got you stuck without getting a global power boost that renders content in other zones obsolete.   You already see this with reputation grinds and some achievements, but what if you it was applied to skills and buffs as well?  Levelless, but not progressionless.

    Ooh, awesome idea.  Heck we already have games starting to section off parts of the world like this with quest hubs, factions and storylines, I like your idea of going even further with it.  Although....isn't GW2 doing something similar in this regard?  Having content scale to your level or something?  I know they are doing something innovative where there is no level "grind" per se.  Hmm....

    image
  • Saxx0nSaxx0n PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd. Hell, CAPosts: 804Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Saxx0n


    Originally posted by SBFord

    I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

    Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

     

    I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

     

    Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

     

    precious covers it quite well below:

     

    precious328 writes:

    Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

    Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

    Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.


     

    Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

     

    Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

     

    While player driven content is key for continued retention,  it isn't proven anywhere that retention is higher than content driven.

    Wonder why EvE is still the most popular game? Hmm let me see......

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by VincentG85

    This is where The Secret World stands :

     - No Levels : You start at "end-game" !

     - 500 Skills tu Unlock : Grinding all of the 500 is going to take a bunch of time !

    Still 2 months...

    Let's hope there will be a skill cap, or this will end up badly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Saxx0n

     

    Wonder why EvE is still the most popular game? Hmm let me see......

    What do you mean by EVE is the most popular game?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Saxx0n


    Originally posted by SBFord

    I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

    Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

     

    I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

     

    Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

     

    precious covers it quite well below:

     

    precious328 writes:

    Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

    Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

    Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.


     

    Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

     

    Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

    That's not true. In pre-cu SWG before the bazaar allowed more items, people roamed player-cities checking vendors. I vividly remember one player-city in particular that had a player selling droids in the street, people running around checking vendors, talking etc.

    I never liked how you could pick up items directly from the bazaar though, I always thought you should have to visit the vendor in person. That would have made player cities MUCH more busy.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

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