What is crimninally misleading is the TV commercials they have in circulation now. I know a few people that saw the commercial and were like omg that game looks so awesome assume that was game play video,
Originally posted by sanosukex Originally posted by lizardbones
The choices you make will not create story line branches. This would be cool, but it would be crazy to try and manage. I spent a little time working it out and the amount of content in the game would easily need to be doubled to do that. Probably more than doubled. However, it would be cool. I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll add some branching story line content to the end game for people who aren't into raiding.
in the quotes I posted earlier in this thread this is what I would say is leaving the quest wide open to let you evolve your character. I think this is how the game was originally thought to be but ended up getting cut short.. probably because of time constraints
I'm not sure it was ever even on the table. It didn't take me long to get to a point where the different story lines were getting unmanageable. I think they've done a really good job on the stories for each of the classes. I don't think the story would have been nearly as good if they had to write even two different versions of the same story. The overall game might be better...maybe...but the story wouldn't be as good.
Also, I lied about being cautiously optimistic. I don't think any sort of branching story line content will get in at end game or in expansions. I think it's one of those too good to be true things. It makes me a little sad really.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What is crimninally misleading is the TV commercials they have in circulation now. I know a few people that saw the commercial and were like omg that game looks so awesome assume that was game play video,
Saw some on Syfy during Being Human on Monday night, those advertisements of gameplay had "not an example of actual gameplay" stamped on the lower right.
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
I let them live both times although i went light on one of my bh's and dark on the other because I THOUGHT you would actually loose the companion.. but as it seems it wouldn't of mattered in the least just like all the other so called choices you get to "significantly evolve your classes storyline"....
They promised to bring story to MMO. Sure, TOR is an MMO, and it has a story. But it's worse MMO than many out there with a worse story than many out there. So yeah, they delivered what they promised, i just hoped it would be better. I didn't really expect it to be, but i hoped.
I'm not really disappointed. I got exactly the game i was expecting and i'm playing it for what it is.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
They promised to bring story to MMO. Sure, TOR is an MMO, and it has a story. But it's worse MMO than many out there with a worse story than many out there. So yeah, they delivered what they promised, i just hoped it would be better. I didn't really expect it to be, but i hoped.
I'm not really disappointed. I got exactly the game i was expecting and i'm playing it for what it is.
at least I can see this and its honest.. i play mostly just because its star wars... i just don't understand people who say it's exactly what they expected and its the best thing since ... well EVER!
What is crimninally misleading is the TV commercials they have in circulation now. I know a few people that saw the commercial and were like omg that game looks so awesome assume that was game play video,
Oh come on !!!!! Who fault is that? Now you want Bioware to fix your friend's common sense box as well? Lol
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
I let them live both times although i went light on one of my bh's and dark on the other because I THOUGHT you would actually loose the companion.. but as it seems it wouldn't of mattered in the least just like all the other so called choices you get to "significantly evolve your classes storyline"....
Originally, in beta you could loose / kill companions. Bioware took this out due to player complaints.
Is it just me, or did Bioware live up to everything they said they would?
I know the game was majorly hyped up. And manynpeople seem disappointed, But really,, was this hype by Bioware or the Fans? Maybe EA?
to me it seems like Bioware lived up to what they said they would. I never understood the hype. The hype mainly was off of the brand-name of the developers (Bioware) and Voice Overs and th IP.... That was it...
Bioware did all of this. They didn't over hype anything here. Everything here is just what they advertised. They didn't pull a Warhammer(ironic I know), nor did they pull a Darkfall kind of launch move.
so why are you disappointed?
People are not dissapointed at the hype they are dissapointed at the game, for £200+ million you would expect something amazing , jawdropping , innovative , next generation. You describe in green above what they actually released, A dull mmorg saved by a great IP, and some single player centric voice overs, dull.
Hard to believe is it not, 1/4 - 1/2 a BILLION pounds over 6 YEARS and thats what they create. Best result could indeed have been a next generation themepark that would have blown everyone away and been the new benchmark in the mmorg world, it should have been with that investment and the IP.
Actually I think they have created some new benchmarks. I don't know about other people but when I have returned to other MMO's, I am kinda freaked out that I get a wall of text for my missions from (mostly) rigid NPC's staring off into the void. On most occassions I am talking to the back of their heads. Regardless of what people think of the game. They have added some pretty slick improvements (taxi rides that on the whole are actually awesome to watch, I know some other games have things that are similar). Making choices on what you will say creates an identity of your character and there are some great smack talk moments. I also think the companion model is the best in the industry. I actually care about my companion and it feels like I have 2 characters not one. Other games the companion is a lifeless pixel whore that does nothing or adds something stupid like a 1% buff. I think its awesome that, when I feel like it, I can have my companion tank while I give support.
Even though space ships / combat is not the main theme of this game. I applaud them for making a spaceship a place to be. I would like to see more options or allow people on your ship but lets face it. WTF were other games like Star Trek thinking about not doing this exact thing.
Although a lot of this may not be 'ground breaking', it does set a new benchmark on features all MMO's have.
Originally, in beta you could loose / kill companions. Bioware took this out due to player complaints.
The problem though is that they left in the dialogue choices to kill them. You just get funnelled to the same response you get when you let them live. I think on the BH one you can still find the original result showing the Kill option on some of the sites that were leaking info during Beta.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
"Is it just me, or did Bioware live up to everything they said they would?"
I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. These gems are what keep me coming back for more. Oh, and it's not just you, but I have strong reservation about looking at thing threw rose color glasses.
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
Hmm, if that's the case (not BH) maybe the same thing happened here, if so my bad, the class is smuggler. *spoiler* The option (darkside) was there to kill her because they were ordered to kill me.
I do remember hearing there is a companion that can die due to a choice and it being dev confirmed (post the removal of companion death). Was googling it couldn't find it. Like sanso I assumed if I picked that option it killed her. I also assumed due to the story direction ( even got negative points from other companions for letting them live) that that was the one who could die.
I'll eat crow now..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
Hmm, if that's the case (not BH) maybe the same thing happened here, if so my bad, the class is smuggler. *spoiler* The option (darkside) was there to kill her because they were ordered to kill me.
I do remember hearing there is a companion that can die due to a choice and it being dev confirmed (post the removal of companion death). Was googling it couldn't find it. Like sanso I assumed if I picked that option it killed her. I also assumed due to the story direction ( even got negative points from other companions for letting them live) that that was the one who could die.
I'll eat crow now..
At least you see when your assumptions are wrong you don't try to defend it and back yourself deeper into a corner.. either way I do wish your actions had bigger impact on what happens its a MAJOR selling point of the game and is what they have been "advertising" since the start... like I said they probably planned on it having more impact but due to maybe time constraints or whatever else it seems they didn't...
it's in no way shape or form an mmo. you really have to admit that. sure, it has some of the features, but the strict linear structure (more strict even than wow imo), substandard ah (ever tried to find something when you're not quite sure what stupid category it might be in? and you have to troll through pages of stuff to browse. can't just browse "helmets" or "chest slots"... i mean, really?), tacked-on pvp, and the way it seems to push you away from playing with other players outside of flashpoints seems to me to put it squarely into the rpg genre more than the mmo.
given this, if you rate it as an rpg game, how would you rate it?
the environment is flaccid and dead. the npcs just window dressing. nothing moves. i mean, NOTHING moves. the "creatures" on the side of the road are there just to break up monotony. there's no attempt to create a vibrant, living world.
compare, then, to skyrim, and this doesn't rank high in the rpg department other than having a multiplayer option for a few dungeons...
the "story" concept is a wonderful addition to the modern mmo. but, i feel in this case bioware took it just a little too far and ended up so far off the mmo road that i don't see how they're going to drag this one back without at least a few large expansions and modifications to their game mechanics. in their enthusiasm to provide a great story and quest-delivery mechanism, they forgot they were making an mmo.
all the same, i don't feel it fails. i feel it instead sets both a benchmark and a warning.
gw2, for example, will have its "personal story" elements compared to swtor. that's going to be tough for them. swtor's choices CAN sometimes amuse you and surprise you. can gw2 live up to that?
the flipside is the warning: don't spend so much time on your personal stories that you forget the game itself.
Hmm, if that's the case (not BH) maybe the same thing happened here, if so my bad, the class is smuggler. *spoiler* The option (darkside) was there to kill her because they were ordered to kill me.
I do remember hearing there is a companion that can die due to a choice and it being dev confirmed (post the removal of companion death). Was googling it couldn't find it. Like sanso I assumed if I picked that option it killed her. I also assumed due to the story direction ( even got negative points from other companions for letting them live) that that was the one who could die.
I'll eat crow now..
At least you see when your assumptions are wrong you don't try to defend it and back yourself deeper into a corner.. either way I do wish your actions had bigger impact on what happens its a MAJOR selling point of the game and is what they have been "advertising" since the start... like I said they probably planned on it having more impact but due to maybe time constraints or whatever else it seems they didn't...
It's bioware game. They ALWAYS say that your actions will have HUGE impacts on the storyline/gameplay, but they NEVER do unless it's the very very end of the game. It's bioware it's what they do.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Is it just me, or did Bioware live up to everything they said they would?
I know the game was majorly hyped up. And manynpeople seem disappointed, But really,, was this hype by Bioware or the Fans? Maybe EA?
to me it seems like Bioware lived up to what they said they would. I never understood the hype. The hype mainly was off of the brand-name of the developers (Bioware) and Voice Overs and th IP.... That was it...
Bioware did all of this. They didn't over hype anything here. Everything here is just what they advertised. They didn't pull a Warhammer(ironic I know), nor did they pull a Darkfall kind of launch move.
so why are you disappointed?
Because of things like this:
''One of the problems of other MMOs combats is that you often have scenarios where you have multiple heroes beating a single enemy... and that just isn`t very heroic.''
-James Ohlen, Creative Director and Lead Designer "
==> And we have exactly this
---
IGN: I was also curious about space combat and how that might evolve. How are the later game missions different from the early game ones and will they ever become sort of a multiplayer experience?
James Ohlen: We're going to continue to add missions. That's another thing that actually surprised us. While we knew that because we weren't doing a freeform X-wing versus Tie Fighter-style space game that we were going to get backlash, that didn't surprise us and obviously we got that feedback a long time ago.
==> And they kept spending time and $$$ on it perfectly knowing that most people didn't want it.
---
James Ohlen: Recently there haven't been too many big surprises. It's because we've been testing the game for many, many months now, for more than a year and we've been making adjustments as we've been going along.
==> Illum? Broken class story paths? Error 9000? Poor character customization? Bad UI? Dead worlds? Travel times?
---
James Ohlen Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they're really for more of a mature online game
==> Really? So you don't want to compete with others more mature MMO then?
---
GN: Can you explain what the Legacy system is meant to be?
James Ohlen: What we're giving at ship is basically just a taste of the Legacy System. It's allowing you to essentially choose your legacy name, essentially your family name.
==> Which isn't even as good @launch as a last name and having a Sith (specie) and a Twileck with the same family name, sure!
And other things like:
We weren't supposed to have the Tank+Heal+DPS trinity combat system.
Supposedly an insane number of different gear piece.
Crafting was supposed to be "heroic"
Or our ship is our house.
BTW I'm not disappointed I wasn't expecting better
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
Yeah...I'm not surprised by this. The problem is that there is a fundamental clash between the idea that you get to make these meaningful decisions that will forever affect your character, and the idea of an MMORPG.
You see, in an MMORPG, everyone wants to be able to "re" everything. Respec, regear, repurpose, retry. After all, you are expected to play the game for a very long time and grow attached to your character(s). You don't want to get to permanently lose out on a companion because of one decision and then spend the rest of the game envious of your peers that still have the companion.
I think that somewhere along the line, Bioware realized this and had the scrap a lot of their ideas for decisions that actually WOULD create meaningful changes. IMO, the fundamental design of mixing highly branching storyline with an MMORPG was flawed, and I think SWTOR illustrates that.
I believe many of the people are confusing what the story is which you are impacting. The story is what you make of it. If you could jot down each and every action your character does in the game, well that would be your characters story. In SWTOR you can chose which path you take. The outcome is part of that story that would be written down for each character. So yes, you are changing the outcome of the story.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
Yeah...I'm not surprised by this. The problem is that there is a fundamental clash between the idea that you get to make these meaningful decisions that will forever affect your character, and the idea of an MMORPG.
You see, in an MMORPG, everyone wants to be able to "re" everything. Respec, regear, repurpose, retry. After all, you are expected to play the game for a very long time and grow attached to your character(s). You don't want to get to permanently lose out on a companion because of one decision and then spend the rest of the game envious of your peers that still have the companion.
I think that somewhere along the line, Bioware realized this and had the scrap a lot of their ideas for decisions that actually WOULD create meaningful changes. IMO, the fundamental design of mixing highly branching storyline with an MMORPG was flawed, and I think SWTOR illustrates that.
this is why I feel a single player story should NEVER be the center point of any MMO... bioware felt differn't and well see in a few months if the MMO community agrees with bioware or not
At least you see when your assumptions are wrong you don't try to defend it and back yourself deeper into a corner.. either way I do wish your actions had bigger impact on what happens its a MAJOR selling point of the game and is what they have been "advertising" since the start... like I said they probably planned on it having more impact but due to maybe time constraints or whatever else it seems they didn't...
Oh I agree, I don't really think any BW game has had truly emotional decisions since KOTOR with it's lightside or darkside routes, none that I've seen anyway.
To the opening, yeah regardless it doesn't feel any less foolish to argue a point only to be utterly wrong, assumptions have a way of making you look like an ass lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
''One of the problems of other MMOs combats is that you often have scenarios where you have multiple heroes beating a single enemy... and that just isn`t very heroic.''
-James Ohlen, Creative Director and Lead Designer "
==> And we have exactly this
---
IGN: I was also curious about space combat and how that might evolve. How are the later game missions different from the early game ones and will they ever become sort of a multiplayer experience?
James Ohlen: We're going to continue to add missions. That's another thing that actually surprised us. While we knew that because we weren't doing a freeform X-wing versus Tie Fighter-style space game that we were going to get backlash, that didn't surprise us and obviously we got that feedback a long time ago.
==> And they kept spending time and $$$ on it perfectly knowing that most people didn't want it.
---
James Ohlen: Recently there haven't been too many big surprises. It's because we've been testing the game for many, many months now, for more than a year and we've been making adjustments as we've been going along.
==> Illum? Broken class story paths? Error 9000? Poor character customization? Bad UI? Dead worlds? Travel times?
---
James Ohlen Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they're really for more of a mature online game
==> Really? So you don't want to compete with others more mature MMO then?
---
GN: Can you explain what the Legacy system is meant to be?
James Ohlen: What we're giving at ship is basically just a taste of the Legacy System. It's allowing you to essentially choose your legacy name, essentially your family name.
==> Which isn't even as good @launch as a last name and having a Sith (specie) and a Twileck with the same family name, sure!
And other things like:
We weren't supposed to have the Tank+Heal+DPS trinity combat system.
Supposedly an insane number of different gear piece.
Crafting was supposed to be "heroic"
Or our ship is our house.
BTW I'm not disappointed I wasn't expecting better
Most of this though is what should be known to any gamer (by now) as marketing speak, I could go over just about any devs pre-release rhetoric and find a hundred examples like this. Every company is going to say "we've iterated and reiterated", "we've polished the game", we've done so much to make our raids or content better"... yadda yadda. As players we need to be able to see past this if we're going to have a realistic expectation.
When I am asked a question such as the OP's, it's more about were they selling the same game they are selling, and for the most part they were, they may make it sound better than it is, but that should be expected. Nothing is as good as it's advertising says.
No video game is void of issues, no testing phase catches everything, no one is perfect.
In a perfect world every issue would be advertised by the devs, this isn't a perfect world. If it was there wouldn't be very many games on anyones harddrive or bookshelf.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I've come to learn from this thread is that bitching beta testers ruined SWTOR. Bioware wanted you to be able to kill your companions, but "Oh no I can't deal with the choices I made." Bioware wanted flashpoints to be stories that allowed your character to effect later flashpoints and thus make you feel like you were doing something impactful, but then the beta testers started bitching "Oh no if someone in my group gets the DS when I vote LS my story will be ruined! Wah Wah I'm selfish! Give me my Gerber's MMO! Wah Wah! I don't want to play this game again with a char for the same quests, so just make my choices meaningless instead! Wah Wah!"
*Sigh*oware
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
Bioware did a great job at Trolling the Ad Revenue reviewer and less intellectually disciplined into spending 15$/month for a single-player rpg. Kudos to them. Though aren't there laws against taking advantage of the mentally handicapped?
Comments
What is crimninally misleading is the TV commercials they have in circulation now. I know a few people that saw the commercial and were like omg that game looks so awesome assume that was game play video,
The choices you make will not create story line branches. This would be cool, but it would be crazy to try and manage. I spent a little time working it out and the amount of content in the game would easily need to be doubled to do that. Probably more than doubled. However, it would be cool. I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll add some branching story line content to the end game for people who aren't into raiding.
in the quotes I posted earlier in this thread this is what I would say is leaving the quest wide open to let you evolve your character. I think this is how the game was originally thought to be but ended up getting cut short.. probably because of time constraints
I'm not sure it was ever even on the table. It didn't take me long to get to a point where the different story lines were getting unmanageable. I think they've done a really good job on the stories for each of the classes. I don't think the story would have been nearly as good if they had to write even two different versions of the same story. The overall game might be better...maybe...but the story wouldn't be as good.
Also, I lied about being cautiously optimistic. I don't think any sort of branching story line content will get in at end game or in expansions. I think it's one of those too good to be true things. It makes me a little sad really.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Saw some on Syfy during Being Human on Monday night, those advertisements of gameplay had "not an example of actual gameplay" stamped on the lower right.
I lol'ed.
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
I let them live both times although i went light on one of my bh's and dark on the other because I THOUGHT you would actually loose the companion.. but as it seems it wouldn't of mattered in the least just like all the other so called choices you get to "significantly evolve your classes storyline"....
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
All three trailers showed the war between the two factions, but the PvP is so lack-luster that players have called SWTOR a "PvE game" in it's defense.
They promised to bring story to MMO. Sure, TOR is an MMO, and it has a story. But it's worse MMO than many out there with a worse story than many out there. So yeah, they delivered what they promised, i just hoped it would be better. I didn't really expect it to be, but i hoped.
I'm not really disappointed. I got exactly the game i was expecting and i'm playing it for what it is.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
at least I can see this and its honest.. i play mostly just because its star wars... i just don't understand people who say it's exactly what they expected and its the best thing since ... well EVER!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Oh come on !!!!! Who fault is that? Now you want Bioware to fix your friend's common sense box as well? LolPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
Originally, in beta you could loose / kill companions. Bioware took this out due to player complaints.
Actually I think they have created some new benchmarks. I don't know about other people but when I have returned to other MMO's, I am kinda freaked out that I get a wall of text for my missions from (mostly) rigid NPC's staring off into the void. On most occassions I am talking to the back of their heads. Regardless of what people think of the game. They have added some pretty slick improvements (taxi rides that on the whole are actually awesome to watch, I know some other games have things that are similar). Making choices on what you will say creates an identity of your character and there are some great smack talk moments. I also think the companion model is the best in the industry. I actually care about my companion and it feels like I have 2 characters not one. Other games the companion is a lifeless pixel whore that does nothing or adds something stupid like a 1% buff. I think its awesome that, when I feel like it, I can have my companion tank while I give support.
Even though space ships / combat is not the main theme of this game. I applaud them for making a spaceship a place to be. I would like to see more options or allow people on your ship but lets face it. WTF were other games like Star Trek thinking about not doing this exact thing.
Although a lot of this may not be 'ground breaking', it does set a new benchmark on features all MMO's have.
The problem though is that they left in the dialogue choices to kill them. You just get funnelled to the same response you get when you let them live. I think on the BH one you can still find the original result showing the Kill option on some of the sites that were leaking info during Beta.
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Have flask; will travel.
"Is it just me, or did Bioware live up to everything they said they would?"
I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. These gems are what keep me coming back for more. Oh, and it's not just you, but I have strong reservation about looking at thing threw rose color glasses.
Hmm, if that's the case (not BH) maybe the same thing happened here, if so my bad, the class is smuggler. *spoiler* The option (darkside) was there to kill her because they were ordered to kill me.
I do remember hearing there is a companion that can die due to a choice and it being dev confirmed (post the removal of companion death). Was googling it couldn't find it. Like sanso I assumed if I picked that option it killed her. I also assumed due to the story direction ( even got negative points from other companions for letting them live) that that was the one who could die.
I'll eat crow now..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
At least you see when your assumptions are wrong you don't try to defend it and back yourself deeper into a corner.. either way I do wish your actions had bigger impact on what happens its a MAJOR selling point of the game and is what they have been "advertising" since the start... like I said they probably planned on it having more impact but due to maybe time constraints or whatever else it seems they didn't...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
here's another way of looking at swtor:
it's in no way shape or form an mmo. you really have to admit that. sure, it has some of the features, but the strict linear structure (more strict even than wow imo), substandard ah (ever tried to find something when you're not quite sure what stupid category it might be in? and you have to troll through pages of stuff to browse. can't just browse "helmets" or "chest slots"... i mean, really?), tacked-on pvp, and the way it seems to push you away from playing with other players outside of flashpoints seems to me to put it squarely into the rpg genre more than the mmo.
given this, if you rate it as an rpg game, how would you rate it?
the environment is flaccid and dead. the npcs just window dressing. nothing moves. i mean, NOTHING moves. the "creatures" on the side of the road are there just to break up monotony. there's no attempt to create a vibrant, living world.
compare, then, to skyrim, and this doesn't rank high in the rpg department other than having a multiplayer option for a few dungeons...
the "story" concept is a wonderful addition to the modern mmo. but, i feel in this case bioware took it just a little too far and ended up so far off the mmo road that i don't see how they're going to drag this one back without at least a few large expansions and modifications to their game mechanics. in their enthusiasm to provide a great story and quest-delivery mechanism, they forgot they were making an mmo.
all the same, i don't feel it fails. i feel it instead sets both a benchmark and a warning.
gw2, for example, will have its "personal story" elements compared to swtor. that's going to be tough for them. swtor's choices CAN sometimes amuse you and surprise you. can gw2 live up to that?
the flipside is the warning: don't spend so much time on your personal stories that you forget the game itself.
It's bioware game. They ALWAYS say that your actions will have HUGE impacts on the storyline/gameplay, but they NEVER do unless it's the very very end of the game. It's bioware it's what they do.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Because of things like this:
''One of the problems of other MMOs combats is that you often have scenarios where you have multiple heroes beating a single enemy... and that just isn`t very heroic.''
-James Ohlen, Creative Director and Lead Designer "
==> And we have exactly this
---
IGN: I was also curious about space combat and how that might evolve. How are the later game missions different from the early game ones and will they ever become sort of a multiplayer experience?
James Ohlen: We're going to continue to add missions. That's another thing that actually surprised us. While we knew that because we weren't doing a freeform X-wing versus Tie Fighter-style space game that we were going to get backlash, that didn't surprise us and obviously we got that feedback a long time ago.
==> And they kept spending time and $$$ on it perfectly knowing that most people didn't want it.
---
James Ohlen: Recently there haven't been too many big surprises. It's because we've been testing the game for many, many months now, for more than a year and we've been making adjustments as we've been going along.
==> Illum? Broken class story paths? Error 9000? Poor character customization? Bad UI? Dead worlds? Travel times?
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James Ohlen Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they're really for more of a mature online game
==> Really? So you don't want to compete with others more mature MMO then?
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GN: Can you explain what the Legacy system is meant to be?
James Ohlen: What we're giving at ship is basically just a taste of the Legacy System. It's allowing you to essentially choose your legacy name, essentially your family name.
==> Which isn't even as good @launch as a last name and having a Sith (specie) and a Twileck with the same family name, sure!
And other things like:
We weren't supposed to have the Tank+Heal+DPS trinity combat system.
Supposedly an insane number of different gear piece.
Crafting was supposed to be "heroic"
Or our ship is our house.
BTW I'm not disappointed I wasn't expecting better
In my humble opinion they have lived up to what they promised . More or less the devil is in the details.
your not changing the outcome that's the point... but I would like to live in imagination land as well.. although didn't look like a great place in south park...
The outcome I pointed out was having that companion for the remainder of the story or not, that's not a changed outcome?
Which class were you playing? When I was presented with this "choice" during the BH story, regardless of the option I chose the NPC still became my companion. That royally pissed me off when I wanted to and had chosen to kill him. It completely violated the character I was developing and violated the class story itself, but God forbid someone didn't want one of their precious companions.
Yeah...I'm not surprised by this. The problem is that there is a fundamental clash between the idea that you get to make these meaningful decisions that will forever affect your character, and the idea of an MMORPG. You see, in an MMORPG, everyone wants to be able to "re" everything. Respec, regear, repurpose, retry. After all, you are expected to play the game for a very long time and grow attached to your character(s). You don't want to get to permanently lose out on a companion because of one decision and then spend the rest of the game envious of your peers that still have the companion. I think that somewhere along the line, Bioware realized this and had the scrap a lot of their ideas for decisions that actually WOULD create meaningful changes. IMO, the fundamental design of mixing highly branching storyline with an MMORPG was flawed, and I think SWTOR illustrates that.Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
this is why I feel a single player story should NEVER be the center point of any MMO... bioware felt differn't and well see in a few months if the MMO community agrees with bioware or not
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Oh I agree, I don't really think any BW game has had truly emotional decisions since KOTOR with it's lightside or darkside routes, none that I've seen anyway.
To the opening, yeah regardless it doesn't feel any less foolish to argue a point only to be utterly wrong, assumptions have a way of making you look like an ass lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Most of this though is what should be known to any gamer (by now) as marketing speak, I could go over just about any devs pre-release rhetoric and find a hundred examples like this. Every company is going to say "we've iterated and reiterated", "we've polished the game", we've done so much to make our raids or content better"... yadda yadda. As players we need to be able to see past this if we're going to have a realistic expectation.
When I am asked a question such as the OP's, it's more about were they selling the same game they are selling, and for the most part they were, they may make it sound better than it is, but that should be expected. Nothing is as good as it's advertising says.
No video game is void of issues, no testing phase catches everything, no one is perfect.
In a perfect world every issue would be advertised by the devs, this isn't a perfect world. If it was there wouldn't be very many games on anyones harddrive or bookshelf.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I've come to learn from this thread is that bitching beta testers ruined SWTOR. Bioware wanted you to be able to kill your companions, but "Oh no I can't deal with the choices I made." Bioware wanted flashpoints to be stories that allowed your character to effect later flashpoints and thus make you feel like you were doing something impactful, but then the beta testers started bitching "Oh no if someone in my group gets the DS when I vote LS my story will be ruined! Wah Wah I'm selfish! Give me my Gerber's MMO! Wah Wah! I don't want to play this game again with a char for the same quests, so just make my choices meaningless instead! Wah Wah!"
*Sigh*oware
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
Bioware did a great job at Trolling the Ad Revenue reviewer and less intellectually disciplined into spending 15$/month for a single-player rpg. Kudos to them. Though aren't there laws against taking advantage of the mentally handicapped?