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TERA: NCSoft US Lawsuit - Delay of Game?

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,622MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

On January 9th, a lawsuit was filed in New York Federal Court by NCSoft alleging that TERA Korean developer, BlueHole Studios, and US publisher, En Masse Entertainment, "makes use of NCsoft's trade secrets, including documents, source code, artwork and know-how related to the development on Lineage 3, and copyrighted works, including concept art created for Lineage 3."

While this is a new legal proceeding in the US, similar cases have been adjudicated in Korea between NCSoft and BlueHole Studios resulting in both criminal and civil convictions against BHS. Both decsions have, however, had portions overturned and remain in appeals courts in Korea.

Whether or not the complaint will have an impact on TERA's North American release date of May 1st remains unknown though the conventional wisdom says that NCS will file some sort of injunction against publication of TERA on May 1st.

En Masse's community manager, Evan Berman, had this to say on the official NA TERA forums:

Evening, folks. We're aware of this. It's our policy not to comment on legal matters.

We'll keep you posted as the story develops. In the meantime, read the legal documents on the New York Federal Court docket.

Source: MMORPG.com forum and MMOCulture.com.


Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

  • kantseemekantseeme millville, NJPosts: 709Member

    When it rains it pours i guess.

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    I really dont know what to say of this

    NCsoft has a fame of sueing everyone and their mother, but it is its hand feeding GW2 so I prefer to stay neutral

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member

    Originally posted by fony

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

    how do you figure?

  • thamighty213thamighty213 NewcastlePosts: 1,630Member

    Originally posted by dinams

    I really dont know what to say of this

    NCsoft has a fame of sueing everyone and their mother, but it is its hand feeding GW2 so I prefer to stay neutral


     

    This is probably fair on NC's behalf though,   a number of people involved in this project are rotten to the core and where involved in the theft of of the L3 source code/assets.

    Years of development stolen attempted to market to a unamed japanese company then when no bite Bluehole set up,  Korean courts already ruled in NCSofts favour twice in fact extending sentances (suspended) and fines for blueholes owners.

    That settled the issue in the east and I am not surprised to see NCSoft pursueing the same fines/compensation in the western market,  if somebody had stole my work I would do the same based on territory it was being offered in.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,001Member Uncommon

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    They were found guilty of the crime in Korea, but their copyright laws somehow allowed TERA to continue to be made over there. that will not be happening on the other side of the world though.

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Thank you for making me laugh

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by thamighty213
    Originally posted by dinams I really dont know what to say of this NCsoft has a fame of sueing everyone and their mother, but it is its hand feeding GW2 so I prefer to stay neutral  
    This is probably fair on NC's behalf though,   a number of people involved in this project are rotten to the core and where involved in the theft of of the L3 source code/assets.Years of development stolen attempted to market to a unamed japanese company then when no bite Bluehole set up,  Korean courts already ruled in NCSofts favour twice in fact extending sentances (suspended) and fines for blueholes owners.That settled the issue in the east and I am not surprised to see NCSoft pursueing the same fines/compensation in the western market,  if somebody had stole my work I would do the same based on territory it was being offered in.


    I wonder if this is part of the reason that Tera isn't doing so well in Korea. Not the lawsuit, but using code and resources from Lineage 3 and shoehorning it into another game.

    If BHS did take code and other resources from NCSoft, they should be sued. The game's release should be held up. BHS should not profit from work that NCSoft owns. Beyond that, people shouldn't pay for a game that is sub par because the work from shoddy from the get go.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCPosts: 3,275Member

    Good for NCSoft.  Someone should not be able to profit off your work and something you financially backed for so long.

  • sakysaky suarleePosts: 4Member

    I think we shouldn't voice our opinion on this matter, the code was indeed stolen but probably the thief are the same people as those who worked on the code.

    It's possible that they just think the code is their own since the worked on it.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

     

    Getting a bad feeling about this game.  Wouldn't surprise me at this point, if after all this, it releases, only to turn out to be all hype and no subtance.  I mean, when you see issues like this with a game, how often is it the work of otherwise brilliant creative developers?


    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Originally posted by saky

    I think we shouldn't voice our opinion on this matter, the code was indeed stolen but probably the thief are the same people as those who worked on the code.

    It's possible that they just think the code is their own since the worked on it.

    Anyone who works for a corporation knows this is not true. Anything you do/create on company time is the property of that company and you will have signed paperwork saying as much.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • thamighty213thamighty213 NewcastlePosts: 1,630Member

    Originally posted by saky

    I think we shouldn't voice our opinion on this matter, the code was indeed stolen but probably the thief are the same people as those who worked on the code.

    It's possible that they just think the code is their own since the worked on it.




     

    Game dev are not that dumb,  I assure you every single contract in this industry explicitty states that anything you work on whilst with the company is the company's property.

     

    I work in the industry on the support CM side of things,  I wrote lots of training manuals in respect of PC hardware and techcnial issues for a large company, I later resigned from this company but for my own records and future employment,  I asked this company in writing for copies of these as I had lost the originals in format.

    The company refused me even though it was my work and I could easily reproduce it because by right it was that companies property.

  • sakysaky suarleePosts: 4Member



    Originally posted by WhiteLantern




    Originally posted by saky



    I think we shouldn't voice our opinion on this matter, the code was indeed stolen but probably the thief are the same people as those who worked on the code.





    It's possible that they just think the code is their own since the worked on it.

    Anyone who works for a corporation knows this is not true. Anything you do/create on company time is the property of that company and you will have signed paperwork saying as much.






     

    Yes I know that (working for a corporation myself) but what I mean is that maybe their implication in the work was so strong they didn't want to leave to ncsoft.

    At least in korea the judge tought it was ok to let them release their game (although they had to pay a huge fine)



     

  • StopflowStopflow Frederick, MDPosts: 9Member

    Originally posted by parrotpholk

    Good for NCSoft.  Someone should not be able to profit off your work and something you financially backed for so long.

    While typically by law this is true, something has to be said for the "little man". I have no facts here, but speaking hypothetically, say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?

    This type of law to me on an artistic level is questionable. Be it music, art, film, gaming, etc... Many artists are basically robbed, there is just a lot wrong with that to me. This issue comes up all the time, sometimes artists win sometimes the stooges do, either way I think it's time this law was better defined as well as had more forms of compensation for the artist(s) themselves.

     

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Reading more, I do find myself wondering.. did they steal actual code, or is it more that they're using some similar concepts?  Like the action combat - can NCSoft really claim copyright of that, in concept alone?

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • IngvarIngvar TallinnPosts: 183Member Uncommon

    hahahah, this game is so bad that it will never be released...

     

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Originally posted by Stopflow

    Originally posted by parrotpholk

    Good for NCSoft.  Someone should not be able to profit off your work and something you financially backed for so long.

    While typically by law this is true, something has to be said for the "little man". I have no facts here, but speaking hypothetically, say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?

    This type of law to me on an artistic level is questionable. Be it music, art, film, gaming, etc... Many artists are basically robbed, there is just a lot wrong with that to me. This issue comes up all the time, sometimes artists win sometimes the stooges do, either way I think it's time this law was better defined as well as had more forms of compensation for the artist(s) themselves.

     

    The information belongs to NCSoft because they hired and paid the programmers to come up with it.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    The information belongs to NCSoft because they hired and paid the programmers to come up with it.

    We have contracts for this purpose.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • TwystedWizTwystedWiz Northwest, WAPosts: 172Member



    Originally posted by Stopflow




    While typically by law this is true, something has to be said for the "little man". I have no facts here, but speaking hypothetically, say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?

    This type of law to me on an artistic level is questionable. Be it music, art, film, gaming, etc... Many artists are basically robbed, there is just a lot wrong with that to me. This issue comes up all the time, sometimes artists win sometimes the stooges do, either way I think it's time this law was better defined as well as had more forms of compensation for the artist(s) themselves.

     






     

    Does "little man" mean thief?

    "...say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?"

    The company that was paying them to create it.





    It doesn't matter how you frame it.  Just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you can make them up as you go.  If you don't like them, work to change them.




     

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fony

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

    I disagree.  NCSoft has to have very damaging information that proves NCSoft's business will be damaged by  such to cause the court to issue an injunction.  Of course it depends on the judge, but I doubt the release will be affected.

  • ArawulfArawulf Guest Writer Freeland, MIPosts: 522Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by fony

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

    I disagree.  NCSoft has to have very damaging information that proves NCSoft's business will be damaged by  such to cause the court to issue an injunction.  Of course it depends on the judge, but I doubt the release will be affected.

    Well, NCSoft's information was damaging enough to get BlueHole convicted in Korea.  Unless some kind of major settlement is made, this game won't be coming out in the US.

    image

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Qazaam

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Originally posted by fony

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

    I disagree.  NCSoft has to have very damaging information that proves NCSoft's business will be damaged by  such to cause the court to issue an injunction.  Of course it depends on the judge, but I doubt the release will be affected.

    Well, NCSoft's information was damaging enough to get BlueHole convicted in Korea.  Unless some kind of major settlement is made, this game won't be coming out in the US.

    I disagree, going to be highly difficult for NCSoft to prove this game is going to damage their business, especially since their own game is not even close to production.  Not to say they won't get damages, but an injunction to stop the game, very doubtful.

  • ArawulfArawulf Guest Writer Freeland, MIPosts: 522Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by Qazaam


    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Originally posted by fony

    saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.

    I disagree.  NCSoft has to have very damaging information that proves NCSoft's business will be damaged by  such to cause the court to issue an injunction.  Of course it depends on the judge, but I doubt the release will be affected.

    Well, NCSoft's information was damaging enough to get BlueHole convicted in Korea.  Unless some kind of major settlement is made, this game won't be coming out in the US.

    I disagree, going to be highly difficult for NCSoft to prove this game is going to damage their business, especially since their own game is not even close to production.  Not to say they won't get damages, but an injunction to stop the game, very doubtful.

    The so-called 'damage' would be profits they won't be getting from a company that's using their stolen property.  I'd say that would be sufficient.

    image

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