Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
LoTRO could've been so much more. This game would've done much better had it been created as a faction game: Hobbits, Men, Elves, Dwarves VS Men, Orcs, and Goblins.
A deep world with realistic World PvP.
Oh man...
Except it couldn't be a faction game as the dark forces, for the most part lack free will. It's very specific as to when they lose. But of course I'm sure we've discussed this before.
Hopefully the new expansion and these mini updates will revitalize the game for me.
Just because we know what will eventually happen doesn't mean it can't work as a faction-based game. We know the Sith will lose, yet we have SWTOR.
As for free will, even the good side doesn't have it. Free will would give me the option to kill a fellow Hobbit. I can't do that. I go where the quest tell me to go.
It's a game. It would've done better as a faction-based game.
If I'm not mistaken, Tolkien Enterprises actually told Turbine they couldn't make a two faction game. It wasn't the game developer's choice, it's just the price of using a famous and important IP.
The difficulty is that every fampus battle in the Middle Earth universe has a set outcome. For example, the forces of evil could not win at Helm's Deep. LOTRO is heavily story driven, and it would be hard to write a story for the evil side because they would just lose over and over again. Imagine the quests. "Hey, set this ladder up and kill 10 Helm's Deep defenders." "Good job, too bad we lost anyways."
You are mistaken. In fact you're totally wrong. Tolkien Enterprises did not give such a restriction, in reality, Tolkien Enterprises does not really care about what does the developer do with the license, which is underlined by the Director of the Tolkien Enterprises in one of the interviews I posted here several times.
If I'm not mistaken, Tolkien Enterprises actually told Turbine they couldn't make a two faction game. It wasn't the game developer's choice, it's just the price of using a famous and important IP.
The difficulty is that every fampus battle in the Middle Earth universe has a set outcome. For example, the forces of evil could not win at Helm's Deep. LOTRO is heavily story driven, and it would be hard to write a story for the evil side because they would just lose over and over again. Imagine the quests. "Hey, set this ladder up and kill 10 Helm's Deep defenders." "Good job, too bad we lost anyways."
That they did, and with good reason, aside from yours, of course.
There are few fantasy books that exist that focus LESS on the antagonist than the Middle Earth books do.
Hell, you never even SEE the main antagonist in the books. And the only time you see the other villains, like Saruman and Gollum, is when they're with the heroes. Movie scenes, like where Saruman addresses his army, or talks with the orc guard about tearing down the forest to build weapons and seige equipment, NEVER happened in the books.
The books were TOTALLY from the perspective of the good guys. So it's not really in the spirit of the novels to create a factional game.
Not that I'd have refused the game had they used factions, but still, the way it is now is much more in line with the Middle Earth books and how the story is told.
You are wrong. Tolkien Enterprises did not give any restriction towards the lore. The lore is solely limited by the developer's idea of how much will the consumers tolerate it.
Tolkien Enterprises sold many licenses to various games (video games / board games), where players can play the evil side with its own story and objectives.
While mounted combat is something a lot of players would be looking forward to, all that I want is Turbine to add new pvmp content and not a couple of rehashed creep skills that are made to be avaliable in the cash shop. New map, new dynamics, selective open world creeping, whole new grassroot creep class revamp or whatever to change this mindnumbingly boring tug-o-war of keeps that keep changing hands that goes in the moors on a daily basis. This is fun to do for the first few months of pvmp-ing, but after a few years of doing the same old same old...cmon....
Even the pvp part of the moors has mostly just become an e-peen fest where freeps seem to have more than one ace up their sleeve post RoI. The Least Turbine can do is add crafting for the creeps side using existing game mechanics where creeps can craft useables like advanced potions, 'dread' tokens, black speech buff scrolls, superior food, etc from freep / freep npc / delving npc drops. But yea, creep players are there on Turbine's priority list just below the bullet point of adding different types of darjeeling and earl grey tea types to LotRO, so I dont see this happening anytime soon if at all...
Once The Hobbit hits theatre's this game is going to see a massive influx of players as well. WB would be stupid not to have an ad for LoTRO in the previews before the film. Who knows they may even throw in a DDO ad as well.
Not going back unless the game starts taking itself more sseriously. It was turning into a goofy, and really ugly ugly. Ugly armor, ugly horses, ugly zones. The game was getting more hideous with everything they released.
And the combat is a wretched snooze-fest.
LOTRO should be serene and exciting. It had the Serenity, but none of the Excitement.
I wonder if they ever stop and think about how casual players feel about these constant level cap increases. I mean, it's not like they even satisfy anyone. They keep the hardcore grinders quiet... until they hit the new cap and immediately start screaming for a higher one. Meanwhile everyone else just has a longer ladder to climb to reach the new content they've paid for.
Would it really be so bad if they included new content at the old level cap? Or even mid-level content?
New content they've paid for? Why would you buy Isengard or even Moria if you're L23? You would ONLY buy this new expansion if you were around L75 and so on. If one is the type of person that has to be at the top level of a game to feel worthy then you will feel poorly dealt with by any game that has has programmers that want to milk the maximum number of people in the shortest time for the lowest amount of effort. LOTRO is a free game IF you want it to be - you can buy expansions with points you can gain in-game on any player on your account. If you're L23 and feel a need to buy the Rohan expansion comes out you're just dim. If you're L70 and wonder why you should have to stump up - collect lots more TP and get it for free a little later. But please stop whining. If you don't want to pay for a game or play it enough to get upgrades for free then don't expect lots of extra work by a company for free - that's what an idiot would do.
I hated the darkness of Moria. It was perfect! It was dark and confusing and was a gaming pleasure. Angmar depressed me - so that worked. This is LOTRO and the sense of being where you don't want to be because YOU don't like being there is just as it should be.
The idea of loving the atmosphere of the darkest parts of the world should only be in a negative sense - I loved playing those bits that made me hate being where I was.
Best devs and most of resources come to new Turbine game in development and to pay off 200 mln $ that WB payed for Turbine.
Lotro is just milked cow atm and test bed for freemium business model.
Best Lotro times are already in past.
I tend to agree with you. Unless they prove otherwise, the best was SoA and it went downhill after. Looking forward to GW2.
Funny how so VERY many people have started to love LOTRO. And so those who may (or may not) have loved it before turn their hatred toward it.
For these people a popular game cannot be as cool as their minority game. And when their minority game increases in popularity it is always bad for tha game in their mind.
Sure, some new guys may be idiots (I've seen them) but there are less idiots talking crap in the game than there are idiots talking crap whining about the game here on this forum.
Upping level cap within 1 year of Isengard is just plain stupid....
And allowing Skirmish pets in open world is gonna make leveling in this game even more faceroll.....
Actually these two things with mounted combat and the aoe fighting system they are trying to aim for might actually be what they needed. It's true that fighting in this game is 1v1 and if anyone else gets involved it's usually very close. So changing the classes so they do AOE and changing the mobs so they come in groups would be a good thing. That said, if they pull it off they will definitely need the soldier out in the field with the player because AOE fighting is intense in any game.
LoTRO could've been so much more. This game would've done much better had it been created as a faction game: Hobbits, Men, Elves, Dwarves VS Men, Orcs, and Goblins.
A deep world with realistic World PvP.
Oh man...
Except it couldn't be a faction game as the dark forces, for the most part lack free will. It's very specific as to when they lose. But of course I'm sure we've discussed this before.
Hopefully the new expansion and these mini updates will revitalize the game for me.
Just because we know what will eventually happen doesn't mean it can't work as a faction-based game. We know the Sith will lose, yet we have SWTOR.
As for free will, even the good side doesn't have it. Free will would give me the option to kill a fellow Hobbit. I can't do that. I go where the quest tell me to go.
It's a game. It would've done better as a faction-based game.
First off, over use of CR's is out right rude. Makes reading the forum hard for everyone.
Secondly, you don't need great pvp to have a great MMO.
I think horse based combat will be awesome. Personally I love the freemium model. It is not expensive to be a VIP, but when you don't have a lot of time to play, you can just do the f2p and use points earned to buy needed things.
Personally I find Lotro to still be one of the top MMO's and still fun to play after all these years.
The CR's get added when someone quotes or edits a post directly underneath the article (using those tiny buttons). It doesnt show up untill after you pressed Post Message. If you first click the forumlink and quote or edit a post in there, those CR's are not added.
It is looking too little too late for Lotro I'm afraid. I played Lotro from alpha testing through into the recent expansion, Rise of Isengard and Turbine is bent on dumbing down the game to try to compete with WoW and SWTOR which is why SWG failed.
Until Turbine upgrades their character models, fixes the crafting, and gets rid of "pay-to-win" content in the stores Lotro will always be a lost cause unfortunately.
Say what you want but LOTRO is the one game that has stayed on my hard drive. I can play on and off for free when I am spending more time in a new MMO and when I get bored I can jump back in and pay while I wait for the next MMO.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
If I'm not mistaken, Tolkien Enterprises actually told Turbine they couldn't make a two faction game. It wasn't the game developer's choice, it's just the price of using a famous and important IP.
The difficulty is that every fampus battle in the Middle Earth universe has a set outcome. For example, the forces of evil could not win at Helm's Deep. LOTRO is heavily story driven, and it would be hard to write a story for the evil side because they would just lose over and over again. Imagine the quests. "Hey, set this ladder up and kill 10 Helm's Deep defenders." "Good job, too bad we lost anyways."
That they did, and with good reason, aside from yours, of course.
There are few fantasy books that exist that focus LESS on the antagonist than the Middle Earth books do.
Hell, you never even SEE the main antagonist in the books. And the only time you see the other villains, like Saruman and Gollum, is when they're with the heroes. Movie scenes, like where Saruman addresses his army, or talks with the orc guard about tearing down the forest to build weapons and seige equipment, NEVER happened in the books.
The books were TOTALLY from the perspective of the good guys. So it's not really in the spirit of the novels to create a factional game.
Not that I'd have refused the game had they used factions, but still, the way it is now is much more in line with the Middle Earth books and how the story is told.
You are wrong. Tolkien Enterprises did not give any restriction towards the lore. The lore is solely limited by the developer's idea of how much will the consumers tolerate it.
Tolkien Enterprises sold many licenses to various games (video games / board games), where players can play the evil side with its own story and objectives.
But all of those games are based on the movies, aren't they? The Jackson movies are considered to be a non-canon separate universe by Tolkien Enterprises. That's why New Line Cinema's logo (instead of TE's) show up on all of those products.
I think it's only loosely based on the movies. None of the characters look like the actors (which I actually love) and the story follows the book, not the movies (e.g. there were no Tom Bombadil or Radagast the Brown in the movies and they play a role in both the game and the book)
As for the game dying or not doing well, I couldn't disagree more. Plenty of people running around and according to Xfire it has twice as many players as Rift
So there's really little not to like about the game
-The lore is awesome
-The storyline is engaging
-There are plenty of surprises here and there (e.g. I was really shocked when the monster I was suppose to hunt turned out to be poor little hungry Gollum who I had to chase for five minutes, also once in a while you come upon a really interesting quest in the middle of nowhere)
-The game is quite serious compare to other games and though it does have plenty of humour, it's mostly in the beginning in Hobbiton, just like the book, once you start you story, it gets really grim and evil from there.
^^^although this could also be a disadvantage because sometimes I just want to have a fun game that can cheer me up and LOTRO is a little too grim at times
-all the achievements and the grind that you have to do is actually meaningful and rewards you with character development rewards, making you tidy bit stronger or giving you new cool skills to play around with.
-monster play is actually TONS of fun. for me personally, it feels like miniature DAOC: it has positional attacks, there's plenty of sneaking around and even siege like experience, with the exception of siege engines. It's definitely not the best PVP experience out there, but it's there and it works. Also, it's helluva fun sneaking around as a warg and take out random strangers as a pack with other noob wargs. sure, you start weak and pityful, but with wargs it's all about team work. simply love it!
One thing that I really wish Turbine did is take an Asheron's Call approach and give us an endless game with no end-game content and progressive develelopment instead. I really dislike this whole raiding/endgame business
LOTRO was a well done game until they hit Moria. Moria was dark and bleak, which made sense, but just wasn't much fun.
But the big problem was the legendary items. Basically they were meant to be weapons that "grew" with you. But they don't - you have to level them up, but when you gain new levels, you have to throw them away and start the leveling process for the items all over again. (and that doesn't even taken into account the randomness of the legacies of the lis)
Now it seems like they are going to add to the grindiness of the game by making the horses work the same way. Ugh. I have a lifetime sub to this, yet cannot bear to play a character over 50 just because of the LIs. The least fun I've had in 35 years of gaming
New expaniosn so fast when old one was so poor and lacking(dragon raid from November 2011 is still bugged) makes me very doubtful about Rohan. So until beta footage proves this is actually a quality product not a PR spin my money goes to GW2.
LoTRO could've been so much more. This game would've done much better had it been created as a faction game: Hobbits, Men, Elves, Dwarves VS Men, Orcs, and Goblins.
A deep world with realistic World PvP.
Oh man...
Except it couldn't be a faction game as the dark forces, for the most part lack free will. It's very specific as to when they lose. But of course I'm sure we've discussed this before.
Hopefully the new expansion and these mini updates will revitalize the game for me.
oh that silly excuse again and its not true, read the books.
Comments
I tend to agree with you. Unless they prove otherwise, the best was SoA and it went downhill after. Looking forward to GW2.
WANT HELM'S DEEP.
That is all.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
You are mistaken. In fact you're totally wrong. Tolkien Enterprises did not give such a restriction, in reality, Tolkien Enterprises does not really care about what does the developer do with the license, which is underlined by the Director of the Tolkien Enterprises in one of the interviews I posted here several times.
REALITY CHECK
You are wrong. Tolkien Enterprises did not give any restriction towards the lore. The lore is solely limited by the developer's idea of how much will the consumers tolerate it.
Tolkien Enterprises sold many licenses to various games (video games / board games), where players can play the evil side with its own story and objectives.
REALITY CHECK
I'm with you on this. I totally enjoyed Moria.
While mounted combat is something a lot of players would be looking forward to, all that I want is Turbine to add new pvmp content and not a couple of rehashed creep skills that are made to be avaliable in the cash shop. New map, new dynamics, selective open world creeping, whole new grassroot creep class revamp or whatever to change this mindnumbingly boring tug-o-war of keeps that keep changing hands that goes in the moors on a daily basis. This is fun to do for the first few months of pvmp-ing, but after a few years of doing the same old same old...cmon....
Even the pvp part of the moors has mostly just become an e-peen fest where freeps seem to have more than one ace up their sleeve post RoI. The Least Turbine can do is add crafting for the creeps side using existing game mechanics where creeps can craft useables like advanced potions, 'dread' tokens, black speech buff scrolls, superior food, etc from freep / freep npc / delving npc drops. But yea, creep players are there on Turbine's priority list just below the bullet point of adding different types of darjeeling and earl grey tea types to LotRO, so I dont see this happening anytime soon if at all...
Once The Hobbit hits theatre's this game is going to see a massive influx of players as well. WB would be stupid not to have an ad for LoTRO in the previews before the film. Who knows they may even throw in a DDO ad as well.
Not going back unless the game starts taking itself more sseriously. It was turning into a goofy, and really ugly ugly. Ugly armor, ugly horses, ugly zones. The game was getting more hideous with everything they released.
And the combat is a wretched snooze-fest.
LOTRO should be serene and exciting. It had the Serenity, but none of the Excitement.
New content they've paid for? Why would you buy Isengard or even Moria if you're L23? You would ONLY buy this new expansion if you were around L75 and so on. If one is the type of person that has to be at the top level of a game to feel worthy then you will feel poorly dealt with by any game that has has programmers that want to milk the maximum number of people in the shortest time for the lowest amount of effort. LOTRO is a free game IF you want it to be - you can buy expansions with points you can gain in-game on any player on your account. If you're L23 and feel a need to buy the Rohan expansion comes out you're just dim. If you're L70 and wonder why you should have to stump up - collect lots more TP and get it for free a little later. But please stop whining. If you don't want to pay for a game or play it enough to get upgrades for free then don't expect lots of extra work by a company for free - that's what an idiot would do.
Stay Frosty
I hated the darkness of Moria. It was perfect! It was dark and confusing and was a gaming pleasure. Angmar depressed me - so that worked. This is LOTRO and the sense of being where you don't want to be because YOU don't like being there is just as it should be.
The idea of loving the atmosphere of the darkest parts of the world should only be in a negative sense - I loved playing those bits that made me hate being where I was.
Stay Frosty
Funny how so VERY many people have started to love LOTRO. And so those who may (or may not) have loved it before turn their hatred toward it.
For these people a popular game cannot be as cool as their minority game. And when their minority game increases in popularity it is always bad for tha game in their mind.
Sure, some new guys may be idiots (I've seen them) but there are less idiots talking crap in the game than there are idiots talking crap whining about the game here on this forum.
btw - the GW2 comment proved it for me....
Stay Frosty
Actually these two things with mounted combat and the aoe fighting system they are trying to aim for might actually be what they needed. It's true that fighting in this game is 1v1 and if anyone else gets involved it's usually very close. So changing the classes so they do AOE and changing the mobs so they come in groups would be a good thing. That said, if they pull it off they will definitely need the soldier out in the field with the player because AOE fighting is intense in any game.
The CR's get added when someone quotes or edits a post directly underneath the article (using those tiny buttons). It doesnt show up untill after you pressed Post Message. If you first click the forumlink and quote or edit a post in there, those CR's are not added.
It is looking too little too late for Lotro I'm afraid. I played Lotro from alpha testing through into the recent expansion, Rise of Isengard and Turbine is bent on dumbing down the game to try to compete with WoW and SWTOR which is why SWG failed.
Until Turbine upgrades their character models, fixes the crafting, and gets rid of "pay-to-win" content in the stores Lotro will always be a lost cause unfortunately.
Say what you want but LOTRO is the one game that has stayed on my hard drive. I can play on and off for free when I am spending more time in a new MMO and when I get bored I can jump back in and pay while I wait for the next MMO.
But all of those games are based on the movies, aren't they? The Jackson movies are considered to be a non-canon separate universe by Tolkien Enterprises. That's why New Line Cinema's logo (instead of TE's) show up on all of those products.
I think it's only loosely based on the movies. None of the characters look like the actors (which I actually love) and the story follows the book, not the movies (e.g. there were no Tom Bombadil or Radagast the Brown in the movies and they play a role in both the game and the book)
As for the game dying or not doing well, I couldn't disagree more. Plenty of people running around and according to Xfire it has twice as many players as Rift
So there's really little not to like about the game
-The lore is awesome
-The storyline is engaging
-There are plenty of surprises here and there (e.g. I was really shocked when the monster I was suppose to hunt turned out to be poor little hungry Gollum who I had to chase for five minutes, also once in a while you come upon a really interesting quest in the middle of nowhere)
-The game is quite serious compare to other games and though it does have plenty of humour, it's mostly in the beginning in Hobbiton, just like the book, once you start you story, it gets really grim and evil from there.
^^^although this could also be a disadvantage because sometimes I just want to have a fun game that can cheer me up and LOTRO is a little too grim at times
-all the achievements and the grind that you have to do is actually meaningful and rewards you with character development rewards, making you tidy bit stronger or giving you new cool skills to play around with.
-monster play is actually TONS of fun. for me personally, it feels like miniature DAOC: it has positional attacks, there's plenty of sneaking around and even siege like experience, with the exception of siege engines. It's definitely not the best PVP experience out there, but it's there and it works. Also, it's helluva fun sneaking around as a warg and take out random strangers as a pack with other noob wargs. sure, you start weak and pityful, but with wargs it's all about team work. simply love it!
One thing that I really wish Turbine did is take an Asheron's Call approach and give us an endless game with no end-game content and progressive develelopment instead. I really dislike this whole raiding/endgame business
I review lots of indie games and MMORPGs
LOTRO was a well done game until they hit Moria. Moria was dark and bleak, which made sense, but just wasn't much fun.
But the big problem was the legendary items. Basically they were meant to be weapons that "grew" with you. But they don't - you have to level them up, but when you gain new levels, you have to throw them away and start the leveling process for the items all over again. (and that doesn't even taken into account the randomness of the legacies of the lis)
Now it seems like they are going to add to the grindiness of the game by making the horses work the same way. Ugh. I have a lifetime sub to this, yet cannot bear to play a character over 50 just because of the LIs. The least fun I've had in 35 years of gaming
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
double post please remove
if this game had orcs and stuff as playble races i be a glad hobbit.
I bet THOSE servers are overpopulated...
oh that silly excuse again and its not true, read the books.