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No PVP gear.. why is that good?

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  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Arawnite

    Originally posted by Onomas

    Why do people need pvp gear over regular gear? Shouldnt your regular gear be just as good? Shouldnt need to grind a million points, tokens, or commedations to have pimped out pvp gear like in so many games. I just dont understand the need for pvp gear, shouldnt even be an issue.

    The split between PvE gear and PvP gear was introduced with the WoW Burning Crusade expansion, in response to the number of complaints about the huge imbalance created with late vanilla raid gear. The main complaint was the fact that someone who hardly ever participated in PvP (and often low skill) now had a huge advantage in PvP due to the stats of the gear alone.

    When Naxxramas was introduced, only a small % of the playerbase was able to complete it and farm it for gear, and those that could had a huge advantage over anyone that wasn't a hardcore raider or anyone that hadn't done the grind for High Warlord/ Grand Marshal rank (and even then the set bonuses were superior on the T3 raid gear). So Blizzard decided that with the upcoming expansion they would introduce another character statistic, resilience, that only had an effect on incoming hits from other players.

    This served two purposes: (1) allowing the playerbase that preferred PvP over hardcore raiding to have a distinct gear advantage over the primarily PvE crowd during PvP....and the PvE crowd to have a distinct gear advantage over the primarily PvP crowd during PvE. (2), and this is what I think was the primary reason for the change, it forced the playerbase that liked both PvE and PvP to spend twice as long on gear progression for their character, ensuring a much longer subscription period.

    Dont see how having the same gear would give anyone an advantage. This pvp grind to get tokens, commedations, or whatever is just a form of bad content to keep people occupied while they think of more content.

    This is also why i am against loot based gear. Crafted gear should be the only thing that should be used in a mmo. Then there is no set advantage or disadvantage. Goes by your stats on armor which you can pick and chose.

    Many games dont have this type of gear and do just fine. Dont see how GW2 would be any worse or better with it or without.

     

    I hope more mmo's start moving away from pvp/raid gear garbage.

     

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)

     

    But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"

     

    I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)

     

    Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.

     

    Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?

    (note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)

     

    The greating thing that' they've talked about in this game is that if you wanted to level up through pvp or pve only you can do it. Atleast from what they describe you can play it any way you like.

    That being said, there is no "pvp" gear, although you won't have to leave the Open world pvp zone to obtain gear, from what has been stated by their dev's players will be able to drop gear (none that is actually equiped) on death, kind of like monsters and what not do.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • ArawniteArawnite NewcastlePosts: 163Member

    Originally posted by Onomas

    Originally posted by Arawnite


    Originally posted by Onomas

    Why do people need pvp gear over regular gear? Shouldnt your regular gear be just as good? Shouldnt need to grind a million points, tokens, or commedations to have pimped out pvp gear like in so many games. I just dont understand the need for pvp gear, shouldnt even be an issue.

    The split between PvE gear and PvP gear was introduced with the WoW Burning Crusade expansion, in response to the number of complaints about the huge imbalance created with late vanilla raid gear. The main complaint was the fact that someone who hardly ever participated in PvP (and often low skill) now had a huge advantage in PvP due to the stats of the gear alone.

    When Naxxramas was introduced, only a small % of the playerbase was able to complete it and farm it for gear, and those that could had a huge advantage over anyone that wasn't a hardcore raider or anyone that hadn't done the grind for High Warlord/ Grand Marshal rank (and even then the set bonuses were superior on the T3 raid gear). So Blizzard decided that with the upcoming expansion they would introduce another character statistic, resilience, that only had an effect on incoming hits from other players.

    This served two purposes: (1) allowing the playerbase that preferred PvP over hardcore raiding to have a distinct gear advantage over the primarily PvE crowd during PvP....and the PvE crowd to have a distinct gear advantage over the primarily PvP crowd during PvE. (2), and this is what I think was the primary reason for the change, it forced the playerbase that liked both PvE and PvP to spend twice as long on gear progression for their character, ensuring a much longer subscription period.

    Dont see how having the same gear would give anyone an advantage. This pvp grind to get tokens, commedations, or whatever is just a form of bad content to keep people occupied while they think of more content.

    This is also why i am against loot based gear. Crafted gear should be the only thing that should be used in a mmo. Then there is no set advantage or disadvantage. Goes by your stats on armor which you can pick and chose.

    Many games dont have this type of gear and do just fine. Dont see how GW2 would be any worse or better with it or without.

     

    I hope more mmo's start moving away from pvp/raid gear garbage.

     

    In a game like GW2 where there won't be any hardcore endgame PvE raids, it won't. But in late vanilla WoW, the stats and set bonuses of T3 raid gear made a HUGE difference.

    Just wanted to explain how this bullshit all got started, which resulted in a whole generation of MMO gamers thinking that's how it's supposed to be.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)

     

    But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"

     

    I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)

     

    Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.

     

    Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?

    (note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)

     

    Why do people pvp in LoL? SC2? SFIV:AE? Counter-strike? competition.

    It's the same for this game. 

    In a mmo its all about gear for a reason. The developers need you to keep playing so you pay a subscription.

    Dangle new items in front of the player and they will play even if the game is sub-standard.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by snapfusion

    Originally posted by fony

    PVP Gear vendors right here. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SOKqmeE-8c#t=1m44s

     

    and yes, there will be stat tracking of some kind, as well as titles.

    Are you sure that was GW2?  That looked like a chezzy fluorescent colored console game, Im being totally serious, Ive seen videos of in game footage before and it looked allot richer than than that clip.

    Maybe that's because the footage was taking by a handycam and not via data-link. So wait until you have it on your computer, before you complain about the colours.

    image

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF

    Originally posted by Siveria

    I think having pvp earnable gear ruins it for everyone. Should have to raid like everyone else for your gear to use it to pvp with. It worked fine in dark age of camelot and a few other mmo's don't know why all the recent mmo's insist on having 2 seperate gear sets one earnable thru pvp and one thru pve.

    The dumbest thing is forcing players to pve in order to have pvp gear, which WoW learned long ago. WoW may have some problems but how they separate pvp and pve in that game was ingenious. Why would it make sense for someone who can spend 3-5 days a week raiding have the advantage over someone who cannot. 

    PVP gear was meant to reward people for skill in battle not how much time they can spend in game a week. 

    Which is why Guild Wars 2 is different. No one would be forcing anyone to do any content type that you don;t want. If all you want to do is PvP your face of then why grind all the way to max level, then grind your way to achieving the best PvP gear, so that you can finally enjoy PvP.

     

    ArenaNet thinks that's a terrible way to handle PvP, because if all you want to do with your character is PvP then you should be able to do it. That is why you can start max level PvP'ing right after the tutorial. That's why you are giving all the gear and weapons you need to be on equal footing with everyone else and you'll be rewarded with better looking gear.

    image

  • highvoltahighvolta southamptonPosts: 129Member

    It makes the game skill based. I love that. 

    No more who ever has the best runes and chest gear wins rubbish. 

    Pure skill = fun pvp :-)

  • andre369andre369 .Posts: 948Member Uncommon

    There IS PvP gear, but it does not make you stronger >> Skill based game not RNG. Why should you PvP? Hmm, tournaments, make a guild, get better, compete? Get cool titles? And hopefully AWESOME emotes > Look at some GW1 emotes here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fame#Acquisition

     

    First guy that reached highest rank in GW >> Look how horny the people are, you could always aim at something like that if that is in your nature.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTEKnoC2Aw

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Monroe, MIPosts: 450Member

    I really don't mind if there is no PvP gear, because gear only gets in the way of fun, but I do want to know one thing about this subject. Where is the source of this information about the lack of PvP gear?

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)

     

    But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"

     

    I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)

     

    Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.

     

    Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?

    (note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)

     

     

    From the looks of it,  PvP isn't the main focus of GW2.  If your main focus is PvP, then I suspect you will be quite disappointed.  

    That is just not true. The game caters well to three playstyles, with out any trampling on the others: Skill based Competititve PVP, Open World-like PVP and PVE.

    Arenenet aims to position Competitive PVP as a serious E-Sport. World vs. World vs. World offer factional, objective based PVP, taking place in four large, connected game zones; with players from two other game servers making up the other factions. Dynamic Events and over all game design look to revolutionize World PVE. PVE content also features a large system of 5-man Dungeon content and a personal, branching storyline, with Voice Overs and Cutscenes, for those who enjoy RPG elements.

    I've seen people say this game is mostly about PVP. Others have said the game doesn't offer much of anything for PVPers. Both statements are false. Arenenet brings the same attention to detail and innovation to PvP and PVE. Neither is a tacked on after thought and all elements of the game are held to the same extremely high internal standards for quality and fun.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fiontar

    Originally posted by Wraithone


    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)

     

    But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"

     

    I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)

     

    Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.

     

    Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?

    (note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)

     

     

    From the looks of it,  PvP isn't the main focus of GW2.  If your main focus is PvP, then I suspect you will be quite disappointed.  

    That is just not true. The game caters well to three playstyles, with out any trampling on the others: Skill based Competititve PVP, Open World-like PVP and PVE.

    Arenenet aims to position Competitive PVP as a serious E-Sport. World vs. World vs. World offer factional, objective based PVP, taking place in four large, connected game zones; with players from two other game servers making up the other factions. Dynamic Events and over all game design look to revolutionize World PVE. PVE content also features a large system of 5-man Dungeon content and a personal, branching storyline, with Voice Overs and Cutscenes, for those who enjoy RPG elements.

    I've seen people say this game is mostly about PVP. Others have said the game doesn't offer much of anything for PVPers. Both statements are false. Arenenet brings the same attention to detail and innovation to PvP and PVE. Neither is a tacked on after thought and all elements of the game are held to the same extremely high internal standards for quality and fun.

     

    You might wish to scroll up and look at my second response. I reached much the same conclusion you have after doing some research. AN has been pushing PvE over the months leading up to this, to counter the idea that GW2 was going to be PvP centric. Of course, now they have to go back the other way, because it appears they over did it. ^^

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/09/flameseeker-chronicles-arenanet-talks-pve-vs-pve/

  • jackman1118jackman1118 Plano, TXPosts: 288Member

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF


    Originally posted by Siveria

    I think having pvp earnable gear ruins it for everyone. Should have to raid like everyone else for your gear to use it to pvp with. It worked fine in dark age of camelot and a few other mmo's don't know why all the recent mmo's insist on having 2 seperate gear sets one earnable thru pvp and one thru pve.

    The dumbest thing is forcing players to pve in order to have pvp gear, which WoW learned long ago. WoW may have some problems but how they separate pvp and pve in that game was ingenious. Why would it make sense for someone who can spend 3-5 days a week raiding have the advantage over someone who cannot. 

    PVP gear was meant to reward people for skill in battle not how much time they can spend in game a week. 

    Which is why Guild Wars 2 is different. No one would be forcing anyone to do any content type that you don;t want. If all you want to do is PvP your face of then why grind all the way to max level, then grind your way to achieving the best PvP gear, so that you can finally enjoy PvP.

     

    ArenaNet thinks that's a terrible way to handle PvP, because if all you want to do with your character is PvP then you should be able to do it. That is why you can start max level PvP'ing right after the tutorial. That's why you are giving all the gear and weapons you need to be on equal footing with everyone else and you'll be rewarded with better looking gear.

    Wow, thanks for all the responses guys!

     

    Back on topic though: this right here scares me.

    I remember a game giving me max level characters and gear in DCUO and that was god awful.

    From the video it says you are "Given a max level character", this to me means my real character will be off on the sideline cheering on my new avatar? lame.

    I want competitive pvp with my own character, who grows and becomes stronger the more I pvp.

    Also, one last point, to the guy saying "PEOPLE DONT PLAY GAMES FOR FUN ANYMORE?!?!" get real bro, I said I dont play MMO's for "just for fun". MMO's appeal to me because of the fact that it is a RPG where I can interact with lots of other people in different activities with my own hero who grows from doing such things (pve or pvp). That is fun to me, when that dissapears it is no longer fun in this genre.

    That said, the fact that this game has arena at launch (supposedly) will ensure a purchase from me. I just would like to be better informed as well. To all the haters who think I need gear to own you, see you in arena!

  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)

     

    But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"

     

    I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)

     

    Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.

     

    Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?

    (note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)

     

    Progress your character and PvP doesn't belong together, PvP should be about competitive fun. It's about YOU and your PERNSONAL skill, not about who has the biggest numbers. WvWvW will let you have any gear you want and all levels are welcome they'll let the community balance that out, so that's your MMO PvP.

    I mean you have great alternatives, I could see why you would complain if the competitive PvP was all there was but it ain't. When I play competitive PvP I don't want to get raped by everything and my only solution is get better gear.

  • OutisOutis Birchwood, TNPosts: 105Member

    Progress your character and PvP doesn't belong together, PvP should be about competitive fun. It's about YOU and your PERNSONAL skill, not about who has the biggest numbers. WvWvW will let you have any gear you want and all levels are welcome they'll let the community balance that out, so that's your MMO PvP.

    I mean you have great alternatives, I could see why you would complain if the competitive PvP was all there was but it ain't. When I play competitive PvP I don't want to get raped by everything and my only solution is get better gear.

    +1

    image
    image
  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Originally posted by Master10K


    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF


    Originally posted by Siveria

    I think having pvp earnable gear ruins it for everyone. Should have to raid like everyone else for your gear to use it to pvp with. It worked fine in dark age of camelot and a few other mmo's don't know why all the recent mmo's insist on having 2 seperate gear sets one earnable thru pvp and one thru pve.

    The dumbest thing is forcing players to pve in order to have pvp gear, which WoW learned long ago. WoW may have some problems but how they separate pvp and pve in that game was ingenious. Why would it make sense for someone who can spend 3-5 days a week raiding have the advantage over someone who cannot. 

    PVP gear was meant to reward people for skill in battle not how much time they can spend in game a week. 

    Which is why Guild Wars 2 is different. No one would be forcing anyone to do any content type that you don;t want. If all you want to do is PvP your face of then why grind all the way to max level, then grind your way to achieving the best PvP gear, so that you can finally enjoy PvP.

     

    ArenaNet thinks that's a terrible way to handle PvP, because if all you want to do with your character is PvP then you should be able to do it. That is why you can start max level PvP'ing right after the tutorial. That's why you are giving all the gear and weapons you need to be on equal footing with everyone else and you'll be rewarded with better looking gear.

    Wow, thanks for all the responses guys!

     

    Back on topic though: this right here scares me.

    I remember a game giving me max level characters and gear in DCUO and that was god awful.

    From the video it says you are "Given a max level character", this to me means my real character will be off on the sideline cheering on my new avatar? lame.

    I want competitive pvp with my own character, who grows and becomes stronger the more I pvp.

    Also, one last point, to the guy saying "PEOPLE DONT PLAY GAMES FOR FUN ANYMORE?!?!" get real bro, I said I dont play MMO's for "just for fun". MMO's appeal to me because of the fact that it is a RPG where I can interact with lots of other people in different activities with my own hero who grows from doing such things (pve or pvp). That is fun to me, when that dissapears it is no longer fun in this genre.

    That said, the fact that this game has arena at launch (supposedly) will ensure a purchase from me. I just would like to be better informed as well. To all the haters who think I need gear to own you, see you in arena!

    If you want to progress your character as you PvP then you can still do that in GW"'s WvWvW (Large scale PvP) and simply ignore the other form of PvP. But the competitive option is there for those that want it and ArenaNet want it to truly be competitive. That is why all characters there are maxed out and with everything available to them.

     

    If you don't like it then just don't play it, because no amount of pre-release whining will change that.

    image

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Outis

    Progress your character and PvP doesn't belong together, PvP should be about competitive fun. It's about YOU and your PERNSONAL skill, not about who has the biggest numbers. WvWvW will let you have any gear you want and all levels are welcome they'll let the community balance that out, so that's your MMO PvP.

    I mean you have great alternatives, I could see why you would complain if the competitive PvP was all there was but it ain't. When I play competitive PvP I don't want to get raped by everything and my only solution is get better gear.

    +1

    +2

    The reason I don't PvP in Rift is because my characters all have Rank 2 gear, with everyone else having Rank 6-8 gear and I just don't enjoy getting raped, by better geared individuals. With the solution being to grind endless hours of unenjoyable PvP until I can be effective, then why bother to begin with.

    image

  • jackman1118jackman1118 Plano, TXPosts: 288Member

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by jackman1118


    Originally posted by Master10K


    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF


    Originally posted by Siveria

    I think having pvp earnable gear ruins it for everyone. Should have to raid like everyone else for your gear to use it to pvp with. It worked fine in dark age of camelot and a few other mmo's don't know why all the recent mmo's insist on having 2 seperate gear sets one earnable thru pvp and one thru pve.

    The dumbest thing is forcing players to pve in order to have pvp gear, which WoW learned long ago. WoW may have some problems but how they separate pvp and pve in that game was ingenious. Why would it make sense for someone who can spend 3-5 days a week raiding have the advantage over someone who cannot. 

    PVP gear was meant to reward people for skill in battle not how much time they can spend in game a week. 

    Which is why Guild Wars 2 is different. No one would be forcing anyone to do any content type that you don;t want. If all you want to do is PvP your face of then why grind all the way to max level, then grind your way to achieving the best PvP gear, so that you can finally enjoy PvP.

     

    ArenaNet thinks that's a terrible way to handle PvP, because if all you want to do with your character is PvP then you should be able to do it. That is why you can start max level PvP'ing right after the tutorial. That's why you are giving all the gear and weapons you need to be on equal footing with everyone else and you'll be rewarded with better looking gear.

    Wow, thanks for all the responses guys!

     

    Back on topic though: this right here scares me.

    I remember a game giving me max level characters and gear in DCUO and that was god awful.

    From the video it says you are "Given a max level character", this to me means my real character will be off on the sideline cheering on my new avatar? lame.

    I want competitive pvp with my own character, who grows and becomes stronger the more I pvp.

    Also, one last point, to the guy saying "PEOPLE DONT PLAY GAMES FOR FUN ANYMORE?!?!" get real bro, I said I dont play MMO's for "just for fun". MMO's appeal to me because of the fact that it is a RPG where I can interact with lots of other people in different activities with my own hero who grows from doing such things (pve or pvp). That is fun to me, when that dissapears it is no longer fun in this genre.

    That said, the fact that this game has arena at launch (supposedly) will ensure a purchase from me. I just would like to be better informed as well. To all the haters who think I need gear to own you, see you in arena!

    If you want to progress your character as you PvP then you can still do that in GW"'s WvWvW (Large scale PvP) and simply ignore the other form of PvP. But the competitive option is there for those that want it and ArenaNet want it to truly be competitive. That is why all characters there are maxed out and with everything available to them.

     

    If you don't like it then just don't play it, because no amount of pre-release whining will change that.

    what you and I find "truly competitive" are different, because I know I am a hardcore mmo'er who will dedicate a lot of time and resources. I also find that being given everything for free to be balanced, instead of earning your own balance, is a cop out for casuals to act like they are being competitive. To me it destroys a whole dimension mmo's can give to you. I also know I am the EXTREME MINORITY. <-- this is important, I do not want to seem like my uber nerdiness and time dedication make me more of a paying customer, it does not. IT only means that I have a very strong opinion because I will spend WAY more time than you playing this game.

    The WvWvW thing sounds right up my alley, and I will probably dedicate a lot of time to it if it works. (which with swtor is a very hard thing to get right.)

    Do not get me wrong, if this is what the game has planned then so be it, I will not complain. I can own at anything and everything, I just am glad I wont have to pay 15$ a month for a mmo game that wants to be a fps. 

     

    Other than that, "dont play it if you dont like it, no amount of whining will change that" sounds like a line straight out of the swtor boards. I have a very different opinion of how games should be because I happen to be more hardcore than 99% of the community.

     

    I guess people cant have different opinions anymore without being told to not play a game. Sorry for being different, but I did not make this thread to say THIS GAME NEEDS TO PANDER TO ME. I made it to ask if it has some things that will interest me. and from the responses, why yes, it does! WvWvW sounds awesome if my gear and extreme skill will allow me to 3v1 new players in the open world (like swtor allows me to do right now with my fully pvp geared 50). Something along the lines of acing a team in counterstrike on the final round of a tie game. was it balanced? yes. but my skill allowed me to take over.

    if this post seems hostile, I do not mean it to be. I use caps for emphasis, not yelling.

    tl;dr: I am hardcore and approve of what this game has, even if the 5v5 team based stuff is for casuals.

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member

    OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?

    I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Have you tried PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately? Or if you are BM/champ geared, notice how the players without exp gear drop so damn quickly it's not even remotely challenging?

    Forcing players to grind stupid little minigames to get PVP gear so they can stay competitive in PVP is one of the dumbest idea's in MMO history, as is putting emphasis on gear over player skill.

    And SWTOR takes it even further, with RNG gear boxes, and an open world PVP zone that does nothing but reward 'out zerg the other side'.

    SWTOR is pretty much the poster child of how you DON'T do PVP. But with the Mythic dev's in charge, nobody was expecting much.

    Bring on GW2 I say.

    /rant

     

    But good to see that others have answered your question already.

  • jackman1118jackman1118 Plano, TXPosts: 288Member

    Originally posted by osc8r

    OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?

    I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?

    Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?

    Bring on GW2!

     

    No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.

     

    because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)

    When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by jackman1118.

    tl;dr: I am hardcore and approve of what this game has, even if the 5v5 team based stuff is for casuals.

    Funny how you say the Structured PvP is for Casuals, just because it lacks the mandatory gear grind to upgrade from cannon fodder and become viable. Well in the end, Guild Wars 2's Tournament mode is shaping up to be the only MMORPG around that can truly become an e-sport, with cash prizes. Yet you still say it's for casual. image

     

    If you're such a hardcore PvP'er then why do you even need the gear to beat someone? Shouldn't your own skill be enough, or do you need that extra bit of insurance, against those lesser geared casuals. lol

    image

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    Originally posted by osc8r

    OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?

    I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?

    Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?

    Bring on GW2!

     

    No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.

    because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)

    When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.

    jackman.... chill on the flames and personal attacks. For one, he isn't accusing you of whining. That was all you, secondly SWTOR, RIFT, WoW, (the list goes on) are pretty good examples of what PvP gear can do to an MMO.

    To put it more civily, having a game with no PvP gear is good for a number of reasons:

    1) it reduces the gear grind, by making all gear viable in pvp.

    2) it evens the playing field a bit in PvP, making it more about player-skill rather than time spent. A lot of PvPers are tired of PvP games that favor those who grind the most over those who play the best.

    GW2 is trying to make a game in which being a good player rewards you just as much in PvE as it does in PvP. I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    The more focus a game have at gear the less player skill are needed for PvP.

    In most game you can grind up the PvP gear and then kill better players than you are since they have worse gear. It gets boring pretty fast to me, what makes me keep playing is fun, not gear rewards. What keeps people playing games like GW2 is stuff like titles, ranks and the feeling of winning because you deserved to win.

    The FPS likeness OP had is not totally off. Fact is that very few people play PvE in FPS even if it was common before. PvP is just more fun. In MMOs on the other hand people prefer PvE and I think it is because MMOs generally do PvE a lot better than PvP. Gear is a big part of that.

  • osc8rosc8r SydPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by jackman1118

    No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.

    because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)

    When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.

    Firstly, why so defensive?

    Secondly, where did I accuse you of whining?

    Now, SWTOR is one of the most casual PVP MMO's I have played, as is it's terrible PVP system. Yet you somehow think you are hardcore because you have grinded out minigames and/or got lucky dice rolls gear in a very casual/PVP-lite MMO? Hmm..

    And to answer your question, it's unbalanced because the people you are fighting don't have it? Why are you so afraid to let skill be the deciding factor in fights instead of gear? Why are you afraid of a more level / challenging playing field?

    Me casual? Well, like I said in my previous post, I'm decked out in BM/Champ gear in SWTOR and decimate level 50's who aren't. You think that's fun or challenging? You know how often our guild pre-made loses? Hmm... about never *yawn* (beating undergeared pugs is soooo exciting).

    And do you honestly feel that minigame grinds (which rewards you whether you win or lose) are examples of good PVP? Or that Ilum zergfest garbage where your only real objective is to A) zerg or B) click on crates?

    No thanks.

    TLDR: being hardcore in a carebear PVP MMO isn't hardcore, nor is beating undergeared players.

    But your question has already been answered. So hopefully we will see you in GW2.

  • TheonenoniTheonenoni Lexington, VAPosts: 279Member

    In Diablo 2 all you got for killing someone was their ear........ Im pretty sure there will be rewards for winning in PvP similar to what they have in Guild Wars 1.   If you rely on gear to win then you probably wont like GW2. Though your armor configuration is important there is no best armor.  It is always situational.  I guess you could balance your armor to be effective against physical and elemental but it would probably be better to either be one or the other for maximum strength and just avoid the type of damage you are weak against.  

     

    Fans and non-fans alike need to realize that Guild Wars is very player-skill based.  You can't just raid a dungeon a million times and then have that leet armor to vanquish your foes in PvP. 

    -I am here to perform logic

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    The agents of disinformation have arrived.buckle your seat belts ladies and gentlemen.

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