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General: Why I'm Freaking Out Over SOPA/PIPA

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  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member


    Originally posted by toddze
    I find it commical that MMORPG.COM is now making articles about SOPA when just 2 weeks ago everything SOPA was being locked. Got to love how MMORPG,COM jumps on the band wagon now that its the "cool" thing to do to bash SOPA.
     

    Well they hardly cite or credit many of the images they use in posts. Particularly Coyote's wanna-be Yatzee posts. So they'd actually benefit with PIPA in particular being shut down.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,889Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zzad

    It was a matter of time  power & governments would try to get the control over internet.

    It has become a threat to stablished powers since  people of the world can freely share information...

    Movements like the one shown worldwide the 15th of October  with the movement "Occupy Wallstreet"

    have shown to the power than citizens around the globe can strike back worlwide & organized using internet....

    and that scared the hell out of them.... Piracy is just an excuse to control the net.

    STOP SOPA!


     

     

    I see the legislation in this light as well.  It's also about profit, plain and simple.  Can't you just imagine any of dozens of types of companies with shareholders who loathe not only the amount of free information online, but the amount of free stuff?  I'm not even talking pirating, I'm talking about free software,, free news, free reviews.  Most of all, free knowledge.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    Originally posted by kakasaki

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Tin foil hats off please.

    It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.

    Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -

    PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.

    YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.

    The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

    Corporations cant lose what they didn't have in the first place

    Piracy IS a form of "voting with your wallet". In most instances it tells corporations their product is worth having, but not at the given price.

    The corporations have brought this upon themselves by pricing their product higher than a lot of people feel its worth.

    No one is entitled to steal. While I don't wholly agree with piracy, I can understand why it exists, and I don't believe it's the fault of the pirates.

    Spin it however you want, BadSpock is correct: pirating software IS stealing and there is no justification for it. ...

    It isn't technically stealing. It is copyright infingement. While both are bad, they are legally different for very important reasons. The key difference being "infinite supply" of intellectual property vs limited supply of material goods. Copyright infringment and material good theft were framed differently in our legal systems for very good reasons. Fair use laws exist because there are obvious social benefits to being able to make copies in some cases.

    He is correct that is a constant battle between price and consumer percieved value since intellectual ideas are nearly always easy to replicate.

    Either the content industry gets stronger laws to protect their profits (which there appears to be nearly no justification for as they have significant growth even during the recession), they lower prices to combat the reduced cost of producing copies, or they find new ways to add value to their products (electronic textbooks are a perfect example here where software based value is obvious).

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • Zeref.DyverZeref.Dyver North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 270Member

    As of now the SOPA bill has been dropped. Is this known here?

     

    Just wanted to let you guys know...

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by Zeno89

    As of now the SOPA bill has been dropped. Is this known here?

     

    Just wanted to let you guys know...

    It hasn't been dropped, it's been shelved.  There's a difference, but yes, I think people need to relax a little for now.

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    Originally posted by Zeno89

    As of now the SOPA bill has been dropped. Is this known here?

     

    Just wanted to let you guys know...

    Yes, its been tabled.  However, they can be brought back up again. I would expect to see them again right after the election when public opinion is at its weakest to influence the congress.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

    Heh ,It's over. They renounced the project earlier today so victory is ours! :P

    Leave it to Team Anonymous to set the record straight and the will of the people to shove it right into the faces of the government !

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member

    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

    Heh ,It's over. They renounced the project earlier today so victory is ours! :P

    Who renouced SOPA/PIPA, the congress or the copyright industry?

    Hype train -> Reality

  • Zeref.DyverZeref.Dyver North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 270Member

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by Zeno89

    As of now the SOPA bill has been dropped. Is this known here?

     

    Just wanted to let you guys know...

    It hasn't been dropped, it's been shelved.  There's a difference, but yes, I think people need to relax a little for now.

    That's what I meant. My bad.

  • darker70darker70 stokePosts: 813Member

     

    For attacking DoJ and FBI websites, Anonymous can now be officially classified as terrorists.

    Warrants are out.

    These teenage/early 20's yuppy Europeans are going to cry themselves to sleep while shitting out of their mouths in Gitmo.

     

    Are u seriously saying this or are u being sarcastic,if not sarcastic then do some research these so called 20 something Yuppies took down Stratfor the very think tank designed to defeat said yuppies,who then did a Robin Hood with all the stolen data.

     

    To me this suggests some real intellect at work here,after all they have united a mass outcry and public opinion not seen in our times,so if your self violates a copy right law,or are suspected of terrorisim just think back to this post when as no doubt u are an American u are shitting it in Gitmo !!

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  • WhySoShortWhySoShort KunmingPosts: 315Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    For attacking DoJ and FBI websites, Anonymous can now be officially classified as terrorists.

    Warrants are out.

    These teenage/early 20's yuppy Europeans are going to cry themselves to sleep while shitting out of their mouths in Gitmo.

    Was it worth not spending 99 cents for a song douche bag?

    We can all agree, the way SOPA/PIPA were written badly and the lobbyist-written language they used were terrible. Awful.

    Worth opposing, 100% definitely.

    But you can't defend sites like Pirate Bay and Megaupload that knowingly and willfully allow the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

    Illegal = Illegal

    Stealing = Stealing

    Saying that something isn't worth the price because it's crap.. so it's OK to steal it is really, really niave.

    Youtube does it right = user generated content = free.

    Copyrighted content = stealing and blocked is A OK


     

    Ok, two things. Firstly, terrorism, despite what the newspeakers in congress want you to think, involves using violence to spread terror, not just being opposed to the US government. While I do not approve of Anonymous and I think they hurt the anti-SOPA cause, they are not terrorists by any stretch of the defintion.

    Secondly, megaupload really is no different than youtube. It allows user to upload content that they created themselves and hosts it for download. It complies with DMCA takedown notices. It has the support of many prominent entertainers who use it to host their content legally.

    And I suggest that you get off your high anti-piracy horse. Even those coporations that are against piracy abuse copyright law. The RIAA and MPAA have a clear contempt of fair use and regard it as nonexistant. They abuse the current law by spamming takedown notices based on word searches that amount to a unsupervised computer pressing control-F over and over. And worse of all, every company that spread (and still spreads) the software that lets you file-share is owned by the same companies that are lobbying against it. CNET Download website is the primary provider of file-sharing software, and it's owned by... CBS, one of the main supporters of SOPA and PIPA. 

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  • korat102korat102 Milton KeynesPosts: 313Member

    Cleared because the board software won't let me delete a post it stuck up on here on my behalf when I logged in!

  • korat102korat102 Milton KeynesPosts: 313Member

    Hmm, that last mesage was posted without me even giving this stupid board software the go ahead to do it. Who writes this stuff?

     

    Anyway...

    @ BadSpock

    They're only terrorists under the US governments description of a terrorist as anyone who dares disagree with what they have to say. Look at the US government's treatment of it's own people. The Land Of The Free is looking about as free as China at the moment. You even have police drones flying overhead spying on you - it's only the fact that the American media is in the governments pocket that prevents half of the people in the US realising that they have no more freedom than the average Arab. Western governments send their people out to die fighting against the very types of regimes that they themselves run.

    Douche bag? I presume that's some kind of playground insult. Not being American and being over the age of 10, I wouldn't know. It is, however, a well known fact that some people resort to insults when they sense they are losing an argument.

    Personally, I'm convinced that these new laws they tried to get through have little to do with piracy and are just a way for the huge media companies to regain the control and influence they have lost due to the internet. They're panicking and intend to use these laws, or laws like them, to stifle internet based competition.

    Governments go along with them because they realise other potential uses for such laws. If we fall asleep, they'll quietly introduce laws like these when we're all distracted by the latest American war in the Middle East. We'll all wake up one morning and think we've been moved to China.

    The real problem is that half of the western world is sleep walking into this. They believe everything their government tells them. They actually believe they have a voice and that these things are being done on their behalf.

    A final thought: Getting to vote for one of two parties that follow the same mantra every few years does not equate to democracy. Bear that in mind.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.

     

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

     

    I find the laws ridiculous but you know what's more ridiculous? The US government trying to screw with the affairs of other countries. I mean it is one thing to come up with some stupid laws for your own country but when your laws affect other countries as well, now that's absolutely ridiculous.

     


    Originally posted by tawess

    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.

     


    I wouldn't classify taking a government website as "terror". Terrorists kill people. True both groups don't approach the problem peacefully but no blood is spilt. So they can't really be compared.


    I don't agree with their methods but I don't like what the US government is doing either. 


    Because of the US government I couldn't use wikipedia all day. Wikipedia should block the US from accessing their website... Why do other English countries had to put up with this is beyond me.

     


    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • ammoniteammonite SANDBACHPosts: 113Member



    Originally posted by tawess

    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.






     




    I agree. No one should protest about anything, because any sort of protest is an act of terrorism and that's bad.


     


    .. and SOPA/PIPA is not a weapon that corporations like SONY could and would use against competitors, that would be a bad thing and the American government would stop that from happening.




    Wouldn’t it?  Please someone tell me it would protect us from bad laws, please.




     

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  • SilverbranchSilverbranch Warren, MIPosts: 192Member

    Originally posted by MattNe

    All the SOPA uproar makes me laugh.

    See, I like to try and look at the big picture.

    SOPA is a symptom of the bigger problem. a bigger problem of 'Bigger Brother'. To me it almost sounds like a plot out of those classic's I read by Bradbury and Huxley. Movies I saw like Logan's Run.

    If you arent against SOPA you are against Free Speech, and for Government controling your life.

    Take a minute and read: "Brave New World" by Huxley, and "Farehneight 451" by Bradbury. Then call whatever 'democratic' represenative you have and scream at them to stop teh maddness.




     

    At the same time we DO have to blame parasites engaged in Piracy for the problem also.  Simply waving about "free speech", and "infringing on Freedom", is childish, the sheeple response Piracy advocates want of the situation.

    There are going to be lots of problems over this coming up I predict, not the least of which the OP pointed out.  At the same time we DO need to NOT have our vision side-lined by those who most wish it, those that profit from inappropriate pirating of other people's intellectual efforts.

    My guess is most of you are fairly intelligent, so lets check some human nature reflex points:  Prior to the Internet engaging in Piracy involved a whole lot more effort given the physical MEDIA in operation by which that would occur.  Hard copy.  Publishing/publishers.  You had copyright infringement around, but it's prevalence was regulated not only by laws protecting the owners of intellectual works, but by the simple fact it was physically harder to accomplish.

    Now?  Anyone can get ahold of about anything almost intantly and be off with it in a matter of seconds.  The World if FILLED with people who want recognition, a buck, whatever, and the floodgates have been opened with the "freedom", and instant data-power of the Internet Pipleline.  No matter how you want to debate the topic, or think "freedom" is completely open ended with no constraints or boundaries (it's not, never has been, ever, and can never be it's impossible), the fact remains Piracy entered a Golden Age when the gates to the Internet opened up.

    A solid solution does need to be found.  But getting to that solution is going to take true, mature, objective HARD CORE thought, not reactionism where people curl all up taking sides out of bias and rabid "moral position".

    I've had articles pirated, copied in total, to other people's blogs and sites, zero reference or link back to my article site where I should be getting the hit . . . because of the open ended nature of the Internet, search tools, cut/paste, and no real way to protect oneself as an actual creative souls (as opposed to a lazy Thief) except in after-the-fact, large scale effort on my part, as the OP pointed out in her post.  While the Thieves have for the most part ez-street.

    I've written some articles, been published in a couple of magazines.  Write stories some, have some that have, surprisingly to me, filled out to where I actually believe they could be an animation or even movie someday . . . if I had the contacts and can get the storyboards filled out properly.

     

     

    Wherever you go, there you are.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    This legislation is rediculous. So glad the massive public outrage has made them shelve it for now.

    If it passed then the biggest offender would be google. They link to just about everything on the internet, including LOTS of pirated stuff. As they are linking to it, even though they are not hosting it they would be liable. Thats how rediculous this is. 

    It was never going to be effective. Just look at The Pirate Bay. They had a massive raid and got all of their servers stolen etc etc, but were back up and running at full capacity within 4 days. I have heard rumours that megaupload is back as well under a different IP.

    Its all about massive corporations like viacom, sony, disney etc wanting to control the internet because they didnt react fast enough and provide a viable way for people to access their content digitally when the technology was emerging. They went down the route of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD when the rest of the world was thinking digitally. Now the technology to pirate content is far more developed and widespread than legal sources and they are panicking because they are going to become extinct. 

    Its not the artists that support SOPA, in general (except metallica et al) the artists want their work to be seen by as many people as possible. Popular recording artists are already producing music themselves to a professional standard and releasing it online for free, or very little(radiohead etc) completely bypassing the recording companies. Artists dont make much money from record sales anyway. They get their big advance for signing and make money from concerts, but the record company takes 90% of the money from sales...

    It also shows just how corrupt the US political system is. In the UK its illegal for a company/person to give money to an elected official to support their cause because it leads to politicians not doing the will of those who elected them, instead doing the will of those who bribe them. Sadly the US political system is based around these bribes. Why do you think people/companies give money to Presidential campaigns? The whole system needs to be changed to stop travesties like SOPA happening. 









     




     

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    The bills, as they were, like 99% of what happens in US politics, were lobbyist written garbage.

    Of course the mega-corps would love to control everything, if they were allowed to, but they still have to answer to the people in same fashion and the protests were loud enough to shelve this terrible legislation.

    That is something I don't think anyone here disagrees with.

     

    But that doesn't take away from the illegality of copyright infringement nor does it somehow make it "OK" to steal.

     

    As I understand it, megaupload was shut down because they were found to be actively paying people in some cases to seed copyrighted material for illegal download/sharing. Pretty clear night and day violation of law, and in my view morally wrong as well.

    Yes, the mega-corps are fighting to save a dying business model, and they need to get with the times and realize that things have changed.

    Look at why Netflix is so popular and why Blockbuster is shut down. Hell, even Kodak the once-great staple of film is now bankrupt.

     

    Instead of innovating and offering services people are willing to pay for, they are fighting to the last breath to save their crumbling media models.

    That, also, is something I don't think anyone here disagrees with.

     

    The point, however, is that none of this justifies knowingly and willfully downloaded media that you KNOW is copyrighted, and there is no justification for willfully breaking the law.

     

    Anonymous are not heroes, they are criminals and deserve any punishment they receive when they are brought to justice.

    Good luck though FBI anti-hackers and such, good luck lol

     

    Voluntary boycott of goods/services, voluntary black outs, etc. are the PROPER, legal way to oppose something like SOPA. Make your voice heard, vote with your wallets because $ is the one language they'll understand most clearly.

    Hacking DoJ / FBI websites and such is NOT.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fivoroth

     

    I find the laws ridiculous but you know what's more ridiculous? The US government trying to screw with the affairs of other countries. I mean it is one thing to come up with some stupid laws for your own country but when your laws affect other countries as well, now that's absolutely ridiculous.

     


    Originally posted by tawess

    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.

     


    I wouldn't classify taking a government website as "terror". Terrorists kill people. True both groups don't approach the problem peacefully but no blood is spilt. So they can't really be compared.


    I don't agree with their methods but I don't like what the US government is doing either. 


    Because of the US government I couldn't use wikipedia all day. Wikipedia should block the US from accessing their website... Why do other English countries had to put up with this is beyond me.

     



     

    No i think you are wrong. Anonumus have a very bad habit of taking a non-compromising stand that basically says "it is they way we want it or the button is pushed" and they use fear and threats to bend people to their way. How is this any different from any other terroist group. The fact that they have YET to directly kill anyone is insubstansial to the fact. After all the only reason terrorists kill people is because it is the easiest and quickest way to build a connection between the actions of the groups and fear.

     

    Not saying people should not protest... just saying that there are better ways to do it then to set off the digital version of a bomb at the source of your irritation. Then again... Maybe that is a new way of doing it... Let's go down to the local Tax office and toss a few rocks through the windows... Or pring large posters with all the information about the poeple who work there and paste them all over town.

    Or why not simply park huge trucks infron of the doors to the postal offices...

     

    Not an OK strategy in my mind, and still a form of terrorism in my mind.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

    Mythic did it right with DAoC. There's no need for a community forum, because you can get all the feedback you need through feedback forms like Mythic had for DAoC. Forums are almost nothing but a place where people whine, complain, and troll. I'm fine without forums. So this addresses your first point. Your second point is moot if the first point is followed.

  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member


    Originally posted by tawess
    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing. 

    Oh I guess those who paint signs and stuff with airbrushes on the walls in the streets illegally are ALSO terrorists then and should all be sent to some secret version of Guantanamo bay to be interrogated, and spied upon then?

    SOPA is pretty much online version of Patriot Act - an authoritarian anti-constitutional idea that some mega-corporations or organizations found "useful".

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  • HricaHrica Mocksville, NCPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon

    These laws will not pass.

     

    Reid a some Ranking GoP already blocked the vote.

     

    Every polition is tip toe-ing around it.

     

    Kinda like privatizing Social Security, any politican who brings it up is shot down.

     

     

    BUT now big corprate America wants it, all the drug companies, motion pictures etc etc.

    If they can BUY the politians, which is done everyday by lobbiest, some form of law may be past in a few years.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yuui

     




    Originally posted by tawess

    Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing. 



     

    Oh I guess those who paint signs and stuff with airbrushes on the walls in the streets illegally are ALSO terrorists then and should all be sent to some secret version of Guantanamo bay to be interrogated, and spied upon then?

    SOPA is pretty much online version of Patriot Act - an authoritarian anti-constitutional idea that some mega-corporations or organizations found "useful".

    No... Unless they actually state that "Yeah... unless you do as we say, we will repaint your entire building/(insert thing here) with defamation test and images." If they do... Yes.. then you should most likley take them in to at least police custody. If they just do it... Then i just think they should be fined and forced to clean it up... preferably with a toothbursh...

     

    You are so intent on being offended that you fail to see what i am saying... If somone said: Yeah... We are going to hack in to the bank and spread every ones details including personal spending and account information if site X(who is connected to the bank) does not do Y... Would that be OK with you as a customer of that bank.

     

    In my mind.. it is not. And that is the type of "heroism" that Anonymus do....

  • CodenakCodenak HullPosts: 418Member Common

    SOPA and PIPA may not pass, but do you expect politicians in pursuit of campaign donations to not introduce some bill to placate the Hollywood moguls who have already threatened to stop contributing to those politicianms that don't stay bought?

    Source: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/205491-consumer-group-accuses-hollywood-of-threatening-politicians

    So i would expect watered down versions of the bills to be introduced that can be strengthened later. You cant relax, because they wont relax in the pursuit of money.

    Video explaining SOPA/PIPA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9h2dF-IsH0I 14 minutes but a good explanation.

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