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I thought that EVE was good...

2

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  • HazelleHazelle Brampton, ONPosts: 760Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

     




    Originally posted by Yamota

     

    Or maybe they just dont like it?





     

    Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

     



    As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:



    Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.



    UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.



    May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.



    Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.



    Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

    His opinions dont need to be objective for him to not liking it. For example I would say that the UI is garbage but I am still bored by this game. The visuals, altough pretty are not very interesting, it is mostly dark and there are no space physics in this game. I also agree with the excel part, but that is because of the crappy UI.

    In any case, just because we dont like the game does not mean we have some hidden agenda. We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

    So true, but the fact that you don't like this game but still visit and post in this forum means that you do have a hidden agenda.

  • HazelleHazelle Brampton, ONPosts: 760Member

    Originally posted by itchmon

    please don't forget, the reviewer in the vid is reviewing the 2008 eve.  it's 2012 now.  it's similar but certainly more new player friendly and there are a lot more interesting activities pvp wise and story wise than there were in 2008.

    The review is garbage to begin with since he made no effort to join a corp or interact with other players, infact he went out of his way to avoid other players.

    He was playing a MMORPG is if it was a single player rpg.

    Basically his review is that:  "as a single player game the MMORPG EVE online is boring"

    Well, no &*$%!

    He's doing it wrong.

    For example:

    Godfather is the worst movie I've ever seen - I watched it with the sound off yesterday and I couldn't tell what was going on; it was sooo boring!

    On new years I spent the evening in a sleep clinic - it was the worst party I've ever been to - they kept telling me to go to sleep and that I was not supposed to move around and stuff!

    I tried to play a PSP game by putting the disc into my PC, but it wouldn't run - Sony sux!

  • CalfisCalfis Brooklyn, NYPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by Vegetto

     




    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel



    Originally posted by Yamota

     

    Or maybe they just dont like it?





     

    Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

     



    As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:



    Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.



    UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.



    May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.



    Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.



    Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.



     

    I say UI visuals are good, its bullcrap, i say visuals are not good, it's bullcrap.

    I play the game, i have no hidden agenda, this is what 99.7% of the 100 million strong MMO market think of this game.

    I have tried every mechanic in the game, joined every type of corp, pirate, low sec, high sec, mining, null sec, faction warfare. Traded, crafted, played the market. Travelled far and wide.

    there is no such thing as constant fights in EvE, you are lying, even a rabid fanboi wouldn't be so stupid to make this claim, gatecamping isn't fighting and alliance fights are how often? I know its the EvE forum, but jesus, most people on MMORPG have tried this game, why lie.

    How many of that 100 million consistently stay with a game for more than a year?

    There is such a thing as constant fights if you join an alliance that is constantly aggressive, it doesn't have to be alliance scale fights to be considered a fight. Gate camping is still fighting, you're not just ganking haulers all the time. Anything can come through that gate. You and your small band of friends stay at a gate too long and you will find a fight as locals pitchfork (in null) to remove you. There are alliances that do nothing but roam all day, every day. Look on their killboards and everyday you are guaranteed to see pages and pages of kills and losses from fights, ganks or whatever all over the place.

    Like these:

    http://northern-coalition.co.uk/?a=home&view=kills&y=2012&m=01

    https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/

    http://a-killed.me/

    https://killboard.goonfleet.com/

    It might be hard to believe but there are alliances out there that do nothing but pvp every day.

    image

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 810Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

    Originally posted by Vegetto

    In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

    Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

     

    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

     

    Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

    Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • CalfisCalfis Brooklyn, NYPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel


    Originally posted by Vegetto

    In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

    Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

     

    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

     

    Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

    Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

    There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

    image

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    There are only 2 kinds of people in the world: EVE players and those that love to troll them :)

     

    In today's MMO market, EVE is unique, and for some reason that nobody can understand, it keeps attracting new players. But the thing that TRULY baffles the critics, is that a lot of those players actually stay subbed, often for years.

     

    When humans can't understand something, they usually try to kill it, lol

  • CalfisCalfis Brooklyn, NYPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    There are only 2 kinds of people in the world: EVE players and those that love to troll them :)

     

    In today's MMO market, EVE is unique, and for some reason that nobody can understand, it keeps attracting new players. But the thing that TRULY baffles the critics, is that a lot of those players actually stay subbed, often for years.

     

    When humans can't understand something, they usually try to kill it, lol

    Fair enough, as an EVE player I can understand that. PvPers often want to kill miners and PvErs in a fire. I think the reasons people stay have been glanced at in these forums in many many posts. But I guess the simpliest explanation is the permanence of the EVE universe. Not premanence in that it never changes but permanence as in the persistent universe that can be shaped by players (mostly nullsec). The world is always there and you can always come back and take part in it. You stay for the world/community.

    image

  • DoktorTeufelDoktorTeufel Norfolk, VAPosts: 413Member


    Originally posted by Vegetto

    there is no such thing as constant fights in EvE, you are lying, even a rabid fanboi wouldn't be so stupid to make this claim, gatecamping isn't fighting and alliance fights are how often? I know its the EvE forum, but jesus, most people on MMORPG have tried this game, why lie.



    Gatecamping isn't fighting? I see. You've chosen a personal definition for what constitutes "fighting" and then claim EVE doesn't have any fights. Let me guess, you want lots of small gang fights but there are too many blobs (where "blob" = any gang with 1 more ship than my gang, no doubt)?


    There's always Red vs. Blue, but apparently that doesn't count either. If all else fails you can flip cans, suicide gank Hulks, or scan down mission runners to ninja their salvage. There's no shortage of miners and certainly no shortage of tears in this game.


    When I was a kid, if I told my mother I was bored, she'd give me chores to do. That cured me after the first few times. She also said, "Only boring people get bored." Point is: This is a sandbox game. Go make your own fun rather than expecting CCP to somehow deliver the very specific type of fights you consider "real fights" 23.5/7.


    Not once have I ever been bored while playing EVE.



    Originally posted by Yamota

    We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.



    You think people don't complain about EVE and whine about how much they don't enjoy it on the official EVE forums?


    Please, now I KNOW you're full of it. Discredited, next.

    Currently Playing: EVE Online
    Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 810Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Calfis

    Originally posted by Velocinox


    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel


    Originally posted by Vegetto

    In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

    Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

     

    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

     

    Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

    Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

    There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

    Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • KrematoryKrematory TVNPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Originally posted by Calfis


    Originally posted by Velocinox


    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel


    Originally posted by Vegetto

    In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

    Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

     

    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

     

    Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

    Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

    There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

    Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.



    I see. Eve players are wrong and you are right, but you won't bother explaining why because Eve players wouldn't understand you anyway. Aristotle would be so proud.

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    You thought it was good... without trying it and just listening to other people.

    Now you think it sounds bad... without trying it and just listening to one guy.

     

    That's nice.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • CalfisCalfis Brooklyn, NYPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by Velocinox

    Originally posted by Calfis


    Originally posted by Velocinox


    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel


    Originally posted by Vegetto

    In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

    Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

     

    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

     

    Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

    Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

    There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

    Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.

    Try me, as far as I can tell all you are saying is that if I enjoy the game that means I'm biased and wrong and you seem to provide the measuring stick for all games that are "not terrible". I like how you keep trying to dodge that fact and make it sound like its all EVE players that are unreasonable for the very fact that they are EVE players. But thats not a very strong argument, I know its shocking but your position is pretty weak. Being loud doesn't make it any stronger.

     

    But please give me an example of a "good game" and what makes it inherently "good".

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,978Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

     




    Originally posted by Yamota

     

    Or maybe they just dont like it?





     

    In any case, just because we dont like the game does not mean we have some hidden agenda. We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

    And following down the same road, just because you or Yatzee don't like EVE doesn't mean it isn't a very good game.

    image

    It does appeal to a niche audience, I was one of those who had a lot of fun in my time there.

    It isn't for everyone, doesn't mean there is something wrong with them for not enjoying the game.

    I don't like FPS'er or sports games, many people do, different strokes for different folks.

    But one thing is true, EVE is a very different sort of MMORPG experience, regardless of whether you end up loving it or hating, which not many MMO's out there today can really say.

    Other than the folks who play Perpetuum, few will say they have a strong sense of deja vu when playing it.

    dg

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member

    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.

    Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.

    So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.

    So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.

    If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)

    Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.

    I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.

    Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.

    So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.

    image

  • CalfisCalfis Brooklyn, NYPosts: 352Member

    Originally posted by Vegetto

    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.

    Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.

    So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.

    So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.

    If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)

    Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.

    I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.

    Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.

    So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.

    As a point of fact I do have less than 30M SP, I know you were just putting in an arbitrary number but I get the point you are making about experience requirements. Its true that you do have to build up a number of SP before you are allowed into corps that are considered "good" but there are many ways to do that while still enjoying the game. I did it by joining an average corp that happened to join an OK alliance that rented some space from a "good" alliance. Sure that basically makes you a space serf but imo the negatives of people a vassal are severely overrated.

    Most "tenants" are freely allowed to participate in pvp with the "landlord" alliance if they choose. Their only responsibility is on a corp/alliance level of paying x amount of rent a month based on the value of the systems rented. Which is usually covered by a 15% tax on a corp level. Other than that you are free to play the game as you see fit. Just build up the wallet or pvp its up to you, this is by far the best way to gain the SP and experience required to get into "good" corps later while still enjoying the game at the same time with decent casual players. Its by no means sucking on someone's cock, you guys do what you are expected (pay rent) and you get a slice of the pie. I know a few EVE friends who do nothing but rent space from whomever is offer just to make ridiculous amounts of isk. The fact of the matter is renting is probably the most casual and rewarding way to play EVE.

    After a few months of cake you will have enough SP to join the "good" corps of a large alliance if you please. They are always looking for more people that are willing to learn and fight for them. Some "good" pvp corps even take recruits fresh out of EVE University so long as they know the basics and are willing to learn pvp. The corp I'm currently in is a good example of that. They do black ops pvp once a month and the rest of the month is group activities for making isk. Very laid back, no required pvp, just that 1 week a month IF you happen to be online. There are corps that take fairly new people, all you have to do is look around, corps are always looking for people willing to have a good time. I remember being a 3 month old character in EVE sitting in a Rifter (frigate) with 50 other renters in a pitchfork defense fleet, good times.

    image

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Vegetto
    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy. I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself. Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.

    That is a lot of assumptions without any first hand experience....

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member


    Originally posted by Calfis

    Originally posted by Vegetto
    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.
    Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.
    So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.
    So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.
    If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)
    Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.
    I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.
    Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.
    So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.
    As a point of fact I do have less than 30M SP, I know you were just putting in an arbitrary number but I get the point you are making about experience requirements. Its true that you do have to build up a number of SP before you are allowed into corps that are considered "good" but there are many ways to do that while still enjoying the game. I did it by joining an average corp that happened to join an OK alliance that rented some space from a "good" alliance. Sure that basically makes you a space serf but imo the negatives of people a vassal are severely overrated.
    Most "tenants" are freely allowed to participate in pvp with the "landlord" alliance if they choose. Their only responsibility is on a corp/alliance level of paying x amount of rent a month based on the value of the systems rented. Which is usually covered by a 15% tax on a corp level. Other than that you are free to play the game as you see fit. Just build up the wallet or pvp its up to you, this is by far the best way to gain the SP and experience required to get into "good" corps later while still enjoying the game at the same time with decent casual players. Its by no means sucking on someone's cock, you guys do what you are expected (pay rent) and you get a slice of the pie. I know a few EVE friends who do nothing but rent space from whomever is offer just to make ridiculous amounts of isk. The fact of the matter is renting is probably the most casual and rewarding way to play EVE.
    After a few months of cake you will have enough SP to join the "good" corps of a large alliance if you please. They are always looking for more people that are willing to learn and fight for them. Some "good" pvp corps even take recruits fresh out of EVE University so long as they know the basics and are willing to learn pvp. The corp I'm currently in is a good example of that. They do black ops pvp once a month and the rest of the month is group activities for making isk. Very laid back, no required pvp, just that 1 week a month IF you happen to be online. There are corps that take fairly new people, all you have to do is look around, corps are always looking for people willing to have a good time. I remember being a 3 month old character in EVE sitting in a Rifter (frigate) with 50 other renters in a pitchfork defense fleet, good times.

    Guess it's the luck of finding the right group. Best group of people i found was actually a mining corp, but not something i wanted to do.

    Think my char had around 20 mil SP, maybe more and can fly HACs, BS's, Interdictors, etc. All support and core skills are levelled as they should be, it's literally just the advanced skills to go now.


    I might give it another go next week after i have got paid, it must be almost a year since i tried it last.

    image

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member


    Originally posted by Gdemami
    Originally posted by Vegetto
    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy. I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself. Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.

    That is a lot of assumptions without any first hand experience....


    First had experience of what? Played for like a year.

    image

  • GeroltGerolt PdamPosts: 98Member

    Originally posted by Vegetto

     




    Originally posted by Gdemami



    Originally posted by Vegetto

    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.

    Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.

    So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.

    So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.

    If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)

    Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.

    I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.

    Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.

    So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.



    That is a lot of assumptions without any first hand experience....



    First had experience of what? Played for like a year.

    Vegetto, I'm not a fanboy of Eve, seriously. The GUI is shit, it's basically Excel Online, and it really can feel like a space desert. I've played it for about a year too, like you.

     

    Ok, I'm not angry or trollolol as I'm typing this: But man, if you think that you can get into the most skilled fleets and alliances after only a few weeks of playing, you entered a game with a persistent universe with completely wrong expectations. There are ways in which you can excel as a noob, but extreme firepower obviously isn't one of them. This game would suck imho if everyone was equal after such a short time. Character diversity is one of the key elements of the social engine of Eve.

     

    Eve is much more complex than you seem to accept. It's not just a "shoot your way up to the top" deathmatch. It's also a social game, a game for industrials, traders, trolls, crooks, spies. It really seems a bit like you didn't fully understand the complexity of Eve. Noobs can get somewhere and make a name for themselves. They just need to figure out where they want to go, and how they're going to achieve their goal. It's much like the outside world. :P

     

    If you want someone killed in Eve, putting guns on your ship and taking off to find that guy is only ONE way to solve your problem.

     

    If you want to get into the big alliances faster, earn some ISK and buy a character on the bazaar. Or sneak your way into the alliance by becoming friends with a recruiter/director of a corp. It's not like being part of the 0.0 blob is the goal of the game anyway.

     

     

    Also, what's space combat like in Eve? It happens 50% in the skilltraining the year prior to the fight, 40% in the hangar, 9% not at all while you're looking for victims without success and 1% when you're getting 1 or 2 shotted by some maniac in a T3 cruiser. Why's everyone so keen on it?

  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    I love EvE and for me when it comes to PvP and how a mmorpg should be run on any universe, theres EvE running ahead of the pack. Everything or almost everything is allowed, as it should be, the economy is brilliant, the pacing is fluid, things happen when all conditions are met, its just the most "feel real" mmorpg i have ever played.

    But i have to admit that is also the most hard to get in mmorpg game ever. Skill system progression is slow (i love it btw), Hi-Sec PvE content is too short and bland to grab newcomers, and PvP at the borders of the infinite is not for the newcomer....

    ...its hard, harsh and non-forgiving, but if you can find a corp where you can fit in and slowly progress to whatever end, it can be one of the most engaging games you will ever play...or one of the most frustating...

    ...it is a chinese fortune cookie....

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Most of the time when a post like this is posted a bunch of random people form their forums will show up and overhpe this game pulling wool over newbies eyes thinking they can make them think that it is snowing. 

    This sums up Eve in everyway and it is not new player friendly at all. You will be spending $100s of dollars just trying to be what "you want to be", without ever getting close to the skills that other people have since it goes whoever plays the longest and most will be the best. Skills=time=No Real Skills. This is what the Eve community loves, you will never find them pvping on an action game where everyone learns how to build over the hit and miss strategys of fine tuning. For instance Your are a super awsome pilot and hit every button in time, But mr random spent 2 years in the game before you on the pvp skills. You will never win. 

    In regards to eve onlines player community, some of the nicest players are the miners, but this game is infested with griefers. 

    So it's technically a "skill based MMO" but it has nothing in it like any other skill based MMO, and it is supposed to have good PvP, but what if you get very far into the game, with a massive ship and tons of awesome weapons, and then a vet corp with about 200 guys as good as you ganks you. You just lost everything, and you probably couldn't do much about it. There goes 6 months of invested time Statment from (eq2js) which is completely true.

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by Gdemami

     




    Originally posted by Vegetto

    I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.

     

    Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.

    So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.

    So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.

    If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)

    Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.

    I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.

    Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.

    So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.



     

    That is a lot of assumptions without any first hand experience....

    No kidding. A player only a few months old can still be very useful to a corp or a gang if they are built properly. Take a bit of time and PLAN what you want to be. Don't just pick random skills to train on the basis of "Oh that looks kinda good, let's do that".

    "The vets are so far ahead, what's the point of mining?" To make money in a combat-free way. Who cares if you can't catch up to the vets right away? You can still make money off of it with very little active thought required, and industrial mining corps are usually much less stringent on the requirements for joining them if you want to chat with others while mining.

    Oh, and for the limited PvP, ever heard of factional warfare or Red vs Blue?

    One of the reasons why it seems hard to get into good corps is that spying/espionage is openly allowed, and a completely valid tactic in warfare. If you want to target someone in the near future and can get an alternate character accepted into the enemy corp/alliance, who would then have access to a bunch of their mailing lists, bulletins, player member lists, POS locations, and maybe even some hardware assets in their corp hangar...the classic saying "information is ammunition" is extremely valid in Eve, and trust is the most valuable resource you can have. You have to PROVE that you're not a spy for a potential future enemy of that corp (think of it like the criminal background check that most real world companies do before they consider hiring you; they don't want to hire someone who might steal from them). Spies have been the cause of some of the most damaging moments to a corp or alliance's history time and time again, so many corp and alliance leaders are very careful when picking new recruits in order to try to avoid it. My own corp has been both the initiator and the victim of it in the past. It's simply a fact of life in New Eden.

    Eve doesn't hold your hand, nor should it. Take your fate into your own hands, set a goal for yourself as to what you want to be able to do that isn't too lofty (i.e. don't say "I wanna fly a Titan in a year!" when you're just starting, try a battleship instead), and then DO IT.  

    Where's the any key?

  • GeroltGerolt PdamPosts: 98Member

    Originally posted by Weretigar

    This is what the Eve community loves, you will never find them pvping on an action game where everyone learns how to build over the hit and miss strategys of fine tuning. For instance Your are a super awsome pilot and hit every button in time, But mr random spent 2 years in the game before you on the pvp skills. You will never win. 

    You are completely wrong. I used to play Eve and enjoyed it for what it is, as stated in my post above. I also enjoy a good tactic shooter and I've played fantasy mmo's with normal skill grinding before. I also play StarCraft.

     

    I guess it comes down to this: There are two kinds of people in Eve,



    1. those who cry that the vets are too uber and that they can't do anything about it and that they'll never succeed etc because of skill points and territory and whatnot,


    2. and those that just go and take what they want.


     


    Also, just for you I will state what has been stated a billion times before: There's only a limited number of skillpoints that can influence your ability to fly a ship. In other words, there is a skillcap.. "impossible to catch up" .. right. You don't understand Eve if you believe that it's about skillpoints.

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Gerolt

    Originally posted by Weretigar

    Also, just for you I will state what has been stated a billion times before: There's only a limited number of skillpoints that can influence your ability to fly a ship. In other words, there is a skillcap.. "impossible to catch up" .. right. You don't understand Eve if you believe that it's about skillpoints.

    However there are way more then 1 set of skillpoints that allow you to build into the actual fighting of ships in pvp and it takes how much time to do this?

    I'm lifting up the wool.

  • GeroltGerolt PdamPosts: 98Member

    Originally posted by Weretigar

    However there are way more then 1 set of skillpoints that allow you to build into the actual fighting of ships in pvp and it takes how much time to do this?

     

    I don't understand what you're saying. Do you?

     


    Originally posted by Weretigar

    I'm lifting up the wool.

     

    Yea whatever, I don't even play Eve anymore because it has serious weaknesses, nor would I encourage a friend to play it, but enjoy being the "hero" in here... yawn..

     

    EDIT: Oh, I just saw your other posting. You're a miner, right? The doormats of Eve. That explains a bit. ;)

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