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General: Why I'm Freaking Out Over SOPA/PIPA

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  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Tin foil hats off please.

    It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.

    So they pad a few congressional pockets, help write up a really, really poorly written bill or two - internet backlashes, victory for internet right?

    They will pass something, something to help curb piracy.

    Constructive criticism and fact based arguments to support a new version of the bill that doesn't place the burden of truth on the accused.

    Poorly written bill, but something needs to be done.

    Piracy IS illegal.

    Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -

    PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.

    Capitalism.

    "There is NO such thing as a free lunch."

    YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.

    The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

    Piracy is a problem... but it's nowhere near the problem that the Music, Movie, and other entertainment industries try to make it out to be.

    If you believe everything these companies claim about piracy...



    • Casettes killed the music industry.


    • VHS killed the movie industry.


    • CD burning killed music industry.


    • DvD Burning killed the movie industry.


    • P2P filesharing killed the music industry.

    Sorry, but I'm hesitant to believe that the big bad Internet is doing oh so much harm to these companies that have a distinct history of crying wolf over piracy.

    Should piracy be dealt with? Yes, but not to the degree that it erodes free speech and bypasses due process.

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    The tech industry should work with them in hollywood. They could provide a solution but you have to remember that there is no piece of software that can't be craked ever. so the real question is instead of loosing the money to someone 'cracking' it, why not make it afforable for people who could benefit from using wither it be a game designer or indie studio or the average hobbyist consumer?

    What this is really about is movies. hollywood is falling on hard times yet they keep making craptastic titles that many consider not worth purchasing at all. really do you want to pay 25 bucks for alvin and the chipmunks? when you could just d/l it and see if you would have wasted your money at the movie theater or at the bargain bin?

    Like i payed for my vbulletin forum even though it's the most pirated forum software in history. it cost almost 300 us dollars. but i needed a great forums not just a free one. now that price for someone who needs a solid updated forum may not have the funds to buy it. many say good he can't and dammed if he still pirates it. but you have to remember some of the better stuff cost allot of money in the US.

    China makes gibson guitar clones just like a real gibson does. but in china the 9000 dollar custom les paul that is a copy in china cost just 150 bucks. same quality but very cheap. many could argue the last point about the qaulity difference but oh well.

    fact is you want something but many young people don't have the income to pay the big bucks for it. even though I pay cash for all my software, many will not or can't.

    So maybe software companys need to start thinking in terms of the US economy and how bad it is and start reflecting prices below for the same stuff they charge unreal prices for.

    Movie companys need to stop blaming pirates for crappy movies they want to much money to purchase and start getting with the times. they need to make better quality movies and less of them. it's like MMOs  these days. go to the front of this site and you see ads for a new fantasy MMO thats free to play almost every other day. we need more more quality and less quantity 

    image

  • TimacekTimacek YlinPosts: 180Member
  • YuuiYuui KaunasPosts: 723Member


    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Tin foil hats off please.It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.So they pad a few congressional pockets, help write up a really, really poorly written bill or two - internet backlashes, victory for internet right?They will pass something, something to help curb piracy.Constructive criticism and fact based arguments to support a new version of the bill that doesn't place the burden of truth on the accused.Poorly written bill, but something needs to be done.Piracy IS illegal.Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.Capitalism."There is NO such thing as a free lunch."YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."
    I'd better hold on to the tinfoil hat if I were you.

    Nothing in this bill is about Piracy. Majority of the bill supporters are lobbied by entertainment industry(ESA, MPAA, etc) to do so. Its the usual try to protect their gigantic market share. They did it when VHS recorders were invented, they did it when DVR concept appeared, they did it when mp3 players started to gain foothold. Most of times unsuccessfully but now they have grown in power enough to actually push bills like that into congress.

    The goal of SOPA and PIPA is simple - to stop potential future innovative companies from competing with the "big guys".


    Piracy is not something that can be stopped by authoritarian censorship. It can only be lessened by actually providing a better support and service than pirates.

    TB's video about SOPA pretty much explains it in simplified terms better than I could.



    Originally posted by Timacek
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfXXT0QBeI&feature=relatedeveryone should watch it

    err. no. Mozart guy sounds like a loony. The last thing the legitimate part of anti-SOPA opposition needs is to be viewed as wingnut nutjobs.

    # A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
    # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
    # A MASKED CRY ADORING
    # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  • WhySoShortWhySoShort KunmingPosts: 315Member

    SOPA and PIPA are by no means just about piracy: they're an attack against a new, growing online economy that endangers the old entertainment business with shareware/freeware, free entertainment (sites like youtube and reverbnation) and transformative works created under fair use. Both the MPAA and RIAA have shown a clear and consistent contempt of fair use and any site that hosts user-generated content (they just shut down Megaupload today). They regularly harrass websites like youtube with unfounded takedown notices, many of which are generated by a computer doing word searches without any human oversight. Under the new laws, these organizations with a history of abusing the existing copyright system would be given free reign over the internet, shutting down whatever they wanted at will (and pretecting their own business at the same time). 

    image

  • PieRadPieRad Odense MPosts: 1,108Member

    Originally posted by Yuui











     

    err. no. Mozart guy sounds like a loony. The last thing the legitimate part of anti-SOPA opposition needs is to be viewed as wingnut nutjobs.

     

    Doesn't matter how he sounds, he's right.

     

    image

  • DalynDalyn Portsmouth, VAPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     They might as well try to make it illegal to borrow a book from your neighbor by banning paper.


     

    Seriously well said!

    +rep

  • spaceportspaceport CatalunyaPosts: 405Member

    Megaupload has been killed by the FBI, and the owners are going spend 50 years in jail.




     




    Laugh about tin foil hats now, laugh aboit Zeitgeist, laugh about Rockefeller, laugh.... while you can.




    Sure, Zeitgeist have some BS, but most of it's true, money is more important than life, with money, you can do ANYTHING you want in this world, ANYTHING. 




     




    Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" or watch THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRKZqdgBXg if you still don't understand why so many foreign countries hate the USA, sure... you can say "it's the gov, not us" but it's your fault for being so naive, so ignorant and sheep.




    America... "the land of the free" where people whatch Fox News and wonders WTF is Occupy Wall Street, where bills like SOPA exist.




    More like, "America, the land of the greed"




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KejYPQyhUI

     




    How about you WAKE UP?









     




     

    image
    "Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
    otacu

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by Durray

    I am finding this annoying now.





    I have been campaigning to stop SOPA (As an ENGLISHMAN) since September last year. Now suddenly everyone claims to be against it and care.





    I love the fact it looks like we have stopped it. YAY internet.





    But where were these articles MMORPG.com last year? When it actually would have made a difference.










     

    +++++++++

    I've been talking, facebooking, twittering, everything I could since before SOPA even existed and they were proposing similar bills under the guise of child protection, and it's only now that people wake up. People need to stop assuming that everyone else is smart enough to see past the charade and realize that money talks, and the people proposing these bills have a lot of money. Further, bills like these are usually combined with pork proposals, a not-so-subtle "You scratch my back, I scratch yours," which temps lawmakers into favoring the bill just so their city/state/whatever gets that bonus incentive. Greed and ignorance is dangerous, and there is no more concentrated a supply of both than Washington.

     

    Stop waiting until end-game to speak up.



     

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    SOPA is forcing us to confront a massive fork in the road in the way our civilization works.  Over the years, we've been slowly building the idea that information can be property at the same time that we have been building the idea that people are free to communicate.  There has always been a blurry line between sharing a sentence and sharing an entire body of work.  Libraries, photocopiers, VCRs ... these are all technologies that have sat on the unstable edge between ownership and freedom.  The Internet is information's Thunderdome.  As communities emerge to share information and industries emerge to produce information, the two models of the status of information are now in brutal and continuous clash.

    The end result of SOPA would be the end of free communication.  Since even communicating a potential reference to a copyrighted work is treated as a crime, it would put us on a path where everything you say would have to henceforth be monitored and filtered continuously to ensure no owned idea was communicated.  The alternative, the end of copyright, puts us in a scary world where traditional notions of the value of rigid created works vanishes.

    MMOs represent a possible alternative model of the future of information.   Most MMOs freely give away their client - which really is the bulk of the work that has been down.  Instead, the price is access to the server, a service that cannot be as easily be copied.  To the end-user, there's really not a huge difference in the experience, but it's a radically different technical approach to creating a business out of a creative work: sell a service, not a copy.

    If you were forced to choose between two worlds: one in which copyright ceased to exist and one in which communication between individuals was severely curtailed, which would you choose?

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    I will hold fast in my opinion that most people are over reacting to this...

     

    Also.. Last time i looked the US of A was a democracy... if this get passed just wait for a few new young(relative term) politicians who see this as a stepingstone to the halls of power and use the revocation of it as a way to pull in voters. After all it is just a law:ish and not the 11 comandment.

     

     

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member

    Megaupload & Megavideo have been shut down by US Gov.

     

     

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/01/20/anonymous-retaliates-over-megaupload-megavideo-shutdown-sopa-and-pipa-links/

     

    Can you believe it? Who's next, youtube?

    Hype train -> Reality

  • TioanbeastTioanbeast columbia, PAPosts: 23Member

    I'm for this bill, besides someones going to find a way so tha when some one posts something with a link to one of the governemts blocked sites, the software will delete it. This would elminate all of the reasons in this article against it. I hate when companies take sides. 

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by VowOfSilence

    Megaupload & Megavideo have been shut down by US Gov.

     

     

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/01/20/anonymous-retaliates-over-megaupload-megavideo-shutdown-sopa-and-pipa-links/

     

    Can you believe it? Who's next, youtube?

    Unlikley... But it could be. So what if it happens... They already censor stuff that is uploaded and it have been years since they were... "free"

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common

    What these corporations are trying to do is reset the market to 30 years back where if you created an IP, someone paid you for it. Unfortunately, and unfairly, for them, that is never going to happen again regardless of the legislation passed.

    What they need to be spending their valuable resources on is a new game plan; a way to get paid for their content and ideas outside of the old business models that existed pre-interweb.

    It boggles the mind when companies involve governments in trying to stop illegal behavior with more legislation. The offenders are already doing something prohibited by law. If you make it more illegal the only possible outcome is to hurt or inconvenience people who aren't necessarily contributing to the illegal act you're trying to stop.

    And that's the main problem with this governing body: The addition of unnecessary laws that get in the way of honest citizens and make it difficult, or in some cases impossible, to live and thrive in a reasonable way.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    For attacking DoJ and FBI websites, Anonymous can now be officially classified as terrorists.

    Warrants are out.

    These teenage/early 20's yuppy Europeans are going to cry themselves to sleep while shitting out of their mouths in Gitmo.

    Was it worth not spending 99 cents for a song douche bag?

    We can all agree, the way SOPA/PIPA were written badly and the lobbyist-written language they used were terrible. Awful.

    Worth opposing, 100% definitely.

     

    But you can't defend sites like Pirate Bay and Megaupload that knowingly and willfully allow the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

    Illegal = Illegal

    Stealing = Stealing

    Saying that something isn't worth the price because it's crap.. so it's OK to steal it is really, really niave.

    Youtube does it right = user generated content = free.

    Copyrighted content = stealing and blocked is A OK

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    best comparo would be pay per view on the satelite,we saw how smooth this idea went in the 90s ,oh they made some money but people were ready to pay 300$ a hacker to get the signal for free!

    i bet this is what would happen to the web at the least worst end of the spectrum ,on the other end of the scale,it would be regional internet!everybody would have their oen http,(renamed of caurse and with different rule nothing would be compatible.(ha to good old days of beta ,vhs lol all over again!

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by tawess

    I will hold fast in my opinion that most people are over reacting to this...

    Also.. Last time i looked the US of A was a democracy... if this get passed just wait for a few new young(relative term) politicians who see this as a stepingstone to the halls of power and use the revocation of it as a way to pull in voters. After all it is just a law:ish and not the 11 comandment.

    The US is actually a democratic republic, bit of a difference.

    You vote for a representative in the republic. Which is still not a bad setup, provided that you actually have a broad range of choices of whom you want to represent you, and not just the options of bad and terrible.

    In other words, voting loses a lot of it's meaning when no matter who you vote for is going to pass laws that strip you of your rights and freedoms. Which is the unfortunate truth of the US 'democratic' system of today, where politicians of both sides are bought and paid for by special interest groups with deep pockets.

    Both sides were backing SOPA and PIPA. If these bills were passed and there was gross abuse in power, 'voting them out' in the next election wouldn't have done anything. How do you vote out the offending party in a two party system when both parties are in on it? That's why people are flipping out, because the system is so broken that it's the only thing that can be done.

  • CodenakCodenak HullPosts: 418Member Common

    Maybe those of you in the US whould be asking for a bill that criminalises any attempt to censor the internet and for takedown notices to require proof of IP ownership with monetary penalties for each fraudulent request.

    That might actualy force the legacy industries to engage with the internet and its netizens, instead of trying to shut the internet down because they neither understand it or like it, and because of this they dont know how to monetise it effectively.

     

  • obiiobii WienPosts: 779Member Uncommon

    But imagine if all people used those hours used productively instead on silly message boards!

    :P



     

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by tawess

    I will hold fast in my opinion that most people are over reacting to this...

    Also.. Last time i looked the US of A was a democracy... if this get passed just wait for a few new young(relative term) politicians who see this as a stepingstone to the halls of power and use the revocation of it as a way to pull in voters. After all it is just a law:ish and not the 11 comandment.

    The US is actually a democratic republic, bit of a difference.

    You vote for a representative in the republic. Which is still not a bad setup, provided that you actually have a broad range of choices of whom you want to represent you, and not just the options of bad and terrible.

    In other words, voting loses a lot of it's meaning when no matter who you vote for is going to pass laws that strip you of your rights and freedoms. Which is the unfortunate truth of the US 'democratic' system of today, where politicians of both sides are bought and paid for by special interest groups with deep pockets.

    Both sides were backing SOPA and PIPA. If these bills were passed and there was gross abuse in power, 'voting them out' in the next election wouldn't have done anything. How do you vote out the offending party in a two party system when both parties are in on it? That's why people are flipping out, because the system is so broken that it's the only thing that ca be done.

    The US uses a Representative Democracy model, this is no different than England, France, Germany, Canada etc, you may call it a Republic to comments that it is a Democracy, butthe fact is that it is still under a Democratic, representative Democracy System like other forms of Givernement. In Canada we have a Parliamantary Monarchy (actually, Parliamentary Democracy and Constitutional monarchy), guess what, we still vote for Representatives to send to that Parliament, you vote for a President, we vote for a Prime Minister, you vote for Congressmen we vote for Members of Parliament...same deal in practice.

    It is a Democratic Process anyways, and should not be confused with the Classical Roman Republic where Senators came up from only weathly families and pretty much did whatever they wanted and represented their own interests instead of those of their famillies.

    the US constitution was founded upon the principles of a Governement by the people and for the people.

    So how hard is it for the people to use their Democratic Power when elections come around and replace their Representatives should these fail to represent them as they should?

    There is a population of over 300 Million in the US, is it that hard to find 500 new representatives that actually govern it?

    Maybe something to think about, I always find it funny that the US is suposed to be one of the biggest defenders of Democracy and Democratic values in the world scenes, yet its own Citizens are cluelles of how it should all work and their own Democratic Powers.

    In Canada more often than not if the Governement is not doing its Job well guess what it is out and replaced next elections, as simple as that, or if on probation we shall give it a minority power and see how they fare for the next four years.

    Back on topic.

    These SOPA and PIPA seems to be receiving much critisism, I am reading many articles from many industries and it seems like these are really not meant for the values of the Internet all the big elements oppose them almost.

    Ironically, I do not know if anyone has mentioned it or not, but (and this is kind of funny), "SOPA" in Greek means Shutup, and "PIPA" means well, blowjob. So..."Shut up and blow" is what both would signify together, I do not know if this is meere coincidence but might be interesting to know.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member







    Originally posted by BadSpock





    But you can't defend sites like Pirate Bay and Megaupload that knowingly and willfully allow the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.





    Illegal = Illegal





    Stealing = Stealing





    Saying that something isn't worth the price because it's crap.. so it's OK to steal it is really, really niave.





    Youtube does it right = user generated content = free.





    Copyrighted content = stealing and blocked is A OK














     




    Are you kidding me? Youtube is not like Megaupload? Well, at least you're honest - you're indeed not much of a pirate, or you'd have more of a clue xP

     

    So here we go, let's go pirate some Lady Gaga on youtube!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGLojNYSo&feature=relmfu legal!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY-vXcmpZIw same video, but not legal :[

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XX9vB2hx7g&feature=related nice dubsteppy remix. legal? no way to tell.

    Now who broke how many laws right now?



     

    Hype train -> Reality

  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member

    Hollywood wants a cover-all.

    Rather than taking to task their beef with the international judicial systems. They want something restrictive.

    The people talked and not it looks like SOPA and PIPA as presented in v. 1.1 and v 1.5 will get life as a 2.0 bill later.

    But we'll just have to tell the MPAA and RIAA that they're not going to buy what they want.

    If they want to attack the pirates they need to shoot the boats, not the sea.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member

    I find it commical that MMORPG.COM is now making articles about SOPA when just 2 weeks ago everything SOPA was being locked. Got to love how MMORPG,COM jumps on the band wagon now that its the "cool" thing to do to bash SOPA.

     

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    I think that if the bill passes, then we'll all have to let them know that we've been downloading illegal material from the US Govt website.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

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