Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.
Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?
These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.
I agree with this.
On the other hand: I wish I lived such a drama-free life that I could convince myself that this is the most important cause I can take up. I kind of envy the "They are trying to oppress us!" people.
What you and people like you are completely missing (which means you didn't read this article, since it addresses it) is that SOPA is worded in a way that creates a gray area for censorship beyond the scope of piracy. Very, VERY few people are complaining about the piracy portion of it. Most don't care. What people are concerned with is how this affects the internet and, ironically, the entertainment industry as a whole. Reading about the things you are defending is a good idea.
I lived a LOT of years before there even was the internet. I can survive if they shut the thing down. Whatever regulations they decide on is what they decide on. I'm not going to turn an internet bill into a "righteous cause against what is destroying the very root of our society and my freedom" type thing. It's not that important to me.
That has to be the scariest statement of apathy I've ever read. I wonder if you would have the same feelings about something you do care about. Maybe if they proposed legislation to let you only buy so much gas per year? Or how much electicity you can use? People lived well enough before those things, I'm sure you can live without them now.
[Mod Edit]
You may not care about the internet, but you will if its freedom is stunted. Whether you like it or not, the internet is interwoven into the very fabric of our lives. There is nothing on this planet that is not directly or indirectly touched by the internet. To put it fully in control of the very few corporate and government interests is to put those interests in control of us. You may not like your freedom, but I like mine and will exercise my rights to express myself freely and to vote to help make sure bills like this don't get passed.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Of course piracy is bad. But of course this legislation is a terrible idea, in almost every way. If nothing else, it goes way, way too far. It will ruin the Internet while also failing to do a single thing to stop piracy. You won't stop pirates, just like you won't stop hackers or thieves or murderers or identity thieves. It can't be don't. You won't stop criminals from committing crimes. That's why they are criminals; they do crime. You can catch them and punish them, but anything you do to stop them, they will find ways around. Always, forever. It has been that way since the dawn of civilization. Criminals do crime. And legislation like this doesn't help.
I could go on and on about things like gun control laws not stopping criminals getting guns, but everyone has a strong opinion, and I doubt I will be doing any changing of minds here. But I can't stand that legislators try to stop things that can't be stopped, while also inconveniencing law-abiding folks. It's why I hate DRM so much. It routinely fails to do a single thing to stop pirates, and also annoys the hell out of people who bought the game legally.
It is really horrifying. It is just one more thing that makes me ashamed to be American.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
As always the so called "leaders" of the free world trying to impose a regulation law to something that is only achievable by education and example. And the rest of the world is also to blame for the same reasons.
When will the world leaders understand that you cant enforce that what you fail to educate?
When will the world leaders understand that humans were born to be free?
You cant enslave the mind, you cant enslave the body, why they feel they can enslave property?
The right way is that of the education, the way of understanding self-regulation and self-leaning, to be free and let others be free, but world leaders need to let people find that way...
I'm not worried. I have no doubt what so ever that President Obama would veto any heinous provisions in or attached to the bill that would have a detrimental impact on the functioning of the internet and the freedom it represents.
Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.
Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?
These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.
I agree with this.
On the other hand: I wish I lived such a drama-free life that I could convince myself that this is the most important cause I can take up. I kind of envy the "They are trying to oppress us!" people.
What you and people like you are completely missing (which means you didn't read this article, since it addresses it) is that SOPA is worded in a way that creates a gray area for censorship beyond the scope of piracy. Very, VERY few people are complaining about the piracy portion of it. Most don't care. What people are concerned with is how this affects the internet and, ironically, the entertainment industry as a whole. Reading about the things you are defending is a good idea.
I lived a LOT of years before there even was the internet. I can survive if they shut the thing down. Whatever regulations they decide on is what they decide on. I'm not going to turn an internet bill into a "righteous cause against what is destroying the very root of our society and my freedom" type thing. It's not that important to me.
That has to be the scariest statement of apathy I've ever read. I wonder if you would have the same feelings about something you do care about. Maybe if they proposed legislation to let you only buy so much gas per year? Or how much electicity you can use? People lived well enough before those things, I'm sure you can live without them now.
If the internet is not that important to you...stop using it. If you don't care about your right to free speech and expression...I'm sure North Korea has room for you. Stopping these bills and their cousins are nothing short of a fight for our freedom from corporate and government oppression. If things like this are allowed to pass, we will find ourselves at the mercy of those who "own" everything.
You may not care about the internet, but you will if its freedom is stunted. Whether you like it or not, the internet is interwoven into the very fabric of our lives. There is nothing on this planet that is not directly or indirectly touched by the internet. To put it fully in control of the very few corporate and government interests is to put those interests in control of us. You may not like your freedom, but I like mine and will exercise my rights to express myself freely and to vote to help make sure bills like this don't get passed.
I understand now that not being able to "express myself" on the internet is right up there with dictatorships imposing gas and energy restrictions.
What's going to happen is that they will use the US as a test ground for this, and then we will be no different than China and many Middle Eastern countries that aren't allowed access outside their network. Yes, it will slip into our own intranet, where viewing outside material is criminalized (regardless of if it's porn or network tv you're watching), and used to keep subversive elements *out*, culturally stunting us. I really do believe this is the beginning steps of a cruel nationilization effort, but with the interests of corporate media in mind.
After all, they can make sure you pay for streaming videos if you simply can't find a proxy in Denmark. Other countries will catch on, and all will be suck.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
As usual, America trying to control everything in the world.
Down with Sopa!
Uh excuse me? Americans are the biggest fighters against this move. We aren't trying to control anything. This SOPA and PIPA is pure political and business oriented, which includes other countries who do business in the USA. The common people are doing what they can to stop it.
Other countries need to stop being haters and generalizing against americans. You hate us for all the wrong reasons. Hate the government, NOT the people.
“While we believe that online piracy by foreign websites is a serious problem that requires a serious legislative response, we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk, or undermines the dynamic, innovative global Internet.”
THIS!
Very well said, and this what informed people need to be vigilant about, it is fine to bariccade one's self from outside enemies, but there is a risk to die from inside pestillence and in the process does change the core values which consitute the way of life you were attempting to protect in the first place.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
What's going to happen is that they will use the US as a test ground for this, and then we will be no different than China and many Middle Eastern countries that aren't allowed access outside their network. Yes, it will slip into our own intranet, where viewing outside material is criminalized (regardless of if it's porn or network tv you're watching), and used to keep subversive elements *out*, culturally stunting us. I really do believe this is the beginning steps of a cruel nationilization effort, but with the interests of corporate media in mind.
After all, they can make sure you pay for streaming videos if you simply can't find a proxy in Denmark. Other countries will catch on, and all will be suck.
I feel a little sad inside when I read all this text-walling hateraiding on SOPA and PIPA. Look, it is real simple:
And, for the record, the "they wouldn't pay for it anyways" argument is a hysterical red herring. I know *WAY* more people that steal/pirate in my professional *AND* private life not because they are criminals, not because they are 'bad people', not because they are 'poor' or "wouldn't buy it anyways" ... They do it because it is fall-down-blind easy to do. There are next to zero deterrents, "everybody does it", "everybody knows how", and it is "no big deal".
Do you honestly think humans would pay good money for food if it was equally easy to just grab the same food for free all the time and it was only minorly socially unacceptable?????
The people in washington are (mostly) a bunch of old fat white men who barely understand the internet or anything technical. They are nerd-morons.
We have gone from a world where 'hacking' and 'piracy' is something a rare fringe group of people participate in, to a world where just about every teenager is flagrantly breaking federal laws just because they want free smack & don't want to pay for it.
Hackers and/or internet "pirates" have gotten wildly more brazen recently. Going so far as to even openly attack corporations & governments. This is not about where you stand on the issue(s) that caused said individuals to act. Merely that they are & affecting millions of people.
Online associated (or data associated) crimes are fast becoming the #1 and best target for criminals -> organized or otherwise.
And this problem is only getting worse, much, much worse. The younger the age group, the more it is "acceptable".
I have been an adult in a professional career path for 20 years. Only recently (the last 2-3 years) have I seen young professional adults coming into the industry thinking it is somehow "OK" to be breaking federal laws (pirating) while ON THE JOB.
One of our most recent professional co-workers actually brought a microsoft key-generator TO WORK!
It is this kind of change in the cultural environment that has older adults backpedaling haistily and considering extreme measures like SOPA or PIPA.
Don't get me wrong.
I, personally, think SOPA and/or PIPA is probably a bad idea.
I think musicians and actors are paid FLAGRANTLY too much for their "art", anyways.
I think movie theaters gouge you like a pig at a carnivore festival
AND
I think big corporations are the suck and the federal governament (US) is a laughingstock.
BUT
Please try and see it from the opposite end of the coin.
Try to see this from a non-geek perspective.
Not because the perspective is somehow "correct", but because THEY the OLD people... and all the OLD peeps are in *congress*.
But I still can't quite figure out why the people crying the most about piracy and backing SOPA and PIPA the hardest, were actually the ones who created and/or proliferated the torrent software throughout the Internet which caused piracy to become so easy today .
Remember Limewire, Morpheus, Azureous, and all those other bittorrent programs? They were all hosted, usually exclusively, on websites like Download.com, ZDnet, etc. And not only were they hosted, but they were actually reviewed and advertised on the sites themselves. There were even staff articles explaining exactly how to use them and where to go to get torrents for copyrighted material.
If you actually look at who owns those websites... it's actually the same companies such as MSNBC, Viacom, Disney, etc, that are crying foul over piracy and pushing hard for SOPA and PIPA.
Something just doesn't sit quite right with me about all of that...
It is funny how the US goverment complain that China, North Korea and Cuba restrict the internet but then don't mind doing the same themselves.
Stuff like this wont stop pirates, it will just create problems for regular users and if someone high up would decide that MMOs are bad they will use laws like this against us.
Piracy is badbut fighting piracy often leads to a lot worse things then the pirates themselves. Free speach is the most important human right there is and restricting it can lead to really bad things.
Franklin and Jefferson knew this already at their time.
We in America are fighting for the beliefs of Jefferson and Franklin we are called the right. I'm a fiscal conservation libertarian and this crap must be stopped. Unforunately we have a portion of this country that doesn't seem to get what a danger these 2 pieces of legislation truly are to everyone that uses the internet.
Even WE hate what our government does, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it without bribe money.
Don't you have elections where you live? Are you in a Democratic Country?
If yes then you can replace your governement if it doe snot do its job well through the power of your vote in next elections.
Political discussion will get this locked, but to answer your point - "it doesn't work that way. Politicians will say whatever it takes to get into the game, then it's all lobbying, not about *you*."
Americans (little people) don't push laws, we just vote on them, and they can still be vetoed.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I belive that his act is a step in th right direction, online piracy has to be stopped some how, I howeve fail to see how this will affect any MMOs as there downloaded from online and yo can't get on without a paid account. But I thin this will help out other industries like movie and music to recieve moree profit. Everyone in america thinks they deserve everything and thats the attitude that's destroying our country.
I belive that his act is a step in th right direction, online piracy has to be stopped some how, I howeve fail to see how this will affect any MMOs as there downloaded from online and yo can't get on without a paid account. But I thin this will help out other industries like movie and music to recieve moree profit. Everyone in america thinks they deserve everything and thats the attitude that's destroying our country.
Read up on the bill. Hopefully this will give you a better idea of how broad language can be manipulated.
Comments
That has to be the scariest statement of apathy I've ever read. I wonder if you would have the same feelings about something you do care about. Maybe if they proposed legislation to let you only buy so much gas per year? Or how much electicity you can use? People lived well enough before those things, I'm sure you can live without them now.
[Mod Edit]
You may not care about the internet, but you will if its freedom is stunted. Whether you like it or not, the internet is interwoven into the very fabric of our lives. There is nothing on this planet that is not directly or indirectly touched by the internet. To put it fully in control of the very few corporate and government interests is to put those interests in control of us. You may not like your freedom, but I like mine and will exercise my rights to express myself freely and to vote to help make sure bills like this don't get passed.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Of course piracy is bad. But of course this legislation is a terrible idea, in almost every way. If nothing else, it goes way, way too far. It will ruin the Internet while also failing to do a single thing to stop piracy. You won't stop pirates, just like you won't stop hackers or thieves or murderers or identity thieves. It can't be don't. You won't stop criminals from committing crimes. That's why they are criminals; they do crime. You can catch them and punish them, but anything you do to stop them, they will find ways around. Always, forever. It has been that way since the dawn of civilization. Criminals do crime. And legislation like this doesn't help.
I could go on and on about things like gun control laws not stopping criminals getting guns, but everyone has a strong opinion, and I doubt I will be doing any changing of minds here. But I can't stand that legislators try to stop things that can't be stopped, while also inconveniencing law-abiding folks. It's why I hate DRM so much. It routinely fails to do a single thing to stop pirates, and also annoys the hell out of people who bought the game legally.
It is really horrifying. It is just one more thing that makes me ashamed to be American.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
As always the so called "leaders" of the free world trying to impose a regulation law to something that is only achievable by education and example. And the rest of the world is also to blame for the same reasons.
When will the world leaders understand that you cant enforce that what you fail to educate?
When will the world leaders understand that humans were born to be free?
You cant enslave the mind, you cant enslave the body, why they feel they can enslave property?
The right way is that of the education, the way of understanding self-regulation and self-leaning, to be free and let others be free, but world leaders need to let people find that way...
...this is not the correct way of doing that.
I'm not worried. I have no doubt what so ever that President Obama would veto any heinous provisions in or attached to the bill that would have a detrimental impact on the functioning of the internet and the freedom it represents.
I understand now that not being able to "express myself" on the internet is right up there with dictatorships imposing gas and energy restrictions.
Thank you for that info.
What's going to happen is that they will use the US as a test ground for this, and then we will be no different than China and many Middle Eastern countries that aren't allowed access outside their network. Yes, it will slip into our own intranet, where viewing outside material is criminalized (regardless of if it's porn or network tv you're watching), and used to keep subversive elements *out*, culturally stunting us. I really do believe this is the beginning steps of a cruel nationilization effort, but with the interests of corporate media in mind.
After all, they can make sure you pay for streaming videos if you simply can't find a proxy in Denmark. Other countries will catch on, and all will be suck.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
The concept of SOPA makes me angry beyond reason... Just a quick tidbit on what I think of this.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
Uh excuse me? Americans are the biggest fighters against this move. We aren't trying to control anything. This SOPA and PIPA is pure political and business oriented, which includes other countries who do business in the USA. The common people are doing what they can to stop it.
Other countries need to stop being haters and generalizing against americans. You hate us for all the wrong reasons. Hate the government, NOT the people.
Just wanna say "thank you " Hikaru.
Even WE hate what our government does, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it without bribe money.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
“While we believe that online piracy by foreign websites is a serious problem that requires a serious legislative response, we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk, or undermines the dynamic, innovative global Internet.”
THIS!
Very well said, and this what informed people need to be vigilant about, it is fine to bariccade one's self from outside enemies, but there is a risk to die from inside pestillence and in the process does change the core values which consitute the way of life you were attempting to protect in the first place.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I feel a little sad inside when I read all this text-walling hateraiding on SOPA and PIPA. Look, it is real simple:
And, for the record, the "they wouldn't pay for it anyways" argument is a hysterical red herring. I know *WAY* more people that steal/pirate in my professional *AND* private life not because they are criminals, not because they are 'bad people', not because they are 'poor' or "wouldn't buy it anyways" ... They do it because it is fall-down-blind easy to do. There are next to zero deterrents, "everybody does it", "everybody knows how", and it is "no big deal".
Do you honestly think humans would pay good money for food if it was equally easy to just grab the same food for free all the time and it was only minorly socially unacceptable?????
The people in washington are (mostly) a bunch of old fat white men who barely understand the internet or anything technical. They are nerd-morons.
We have gone from a world where 'hacking' and 'piracy' is something a rare fringe group of people participate in, to a world where just about every teenager is flagrantly breaking federal laws just because they want free smack & don't want to pay for it.
Hackers and/or internet "pirates" have gotten wildly more brazen recently. Going so far as to even openly attack corporations & governments. This is not about where you stand on the issue(s) that caused said individuals to act. Merely that they are & affecting millions of people.
Online associated (or data associated) crimes are fast becoming the #1 and best target for criminals -> organized or otherwise.
And this problem is only getting worse, much, much worse. The younger the age group, the more it is "acceptable".
I have been an adult in a professional career path for 20 years. Only recently (the last 2-3 years) have I seen young professional adults coming into the industry thinking it is somehow "OK" to be breaking federal laws (pirating) while ON THE JOB.
One of our most recent professional co-workers actually brought a microsoft key-generator TO WORK!
It is this kind of change in the cultural environment that has older adults backpedaling haistily and considering extreme measures like SOPA or PIPA.
Don't get me wrong.
I, personally, think SOPA and/or PIPA is probably a bad idea.
I think musicians and actors are paid FLAGRANTLY too much for their "art", anyways.
I think movie theaters gouge you like a pig at a carnivore festival
AND
I think big corporations are the suck and the federal governament (US) is a laughingstock.
BUT
Please try and see it from the opposite end of the coin.
Try to see this from a non-geek perspective.
Not because the perspective is somehow "correct", but because THEY the OLD people... and all the OLD peeps are in *congress*.
(their POV)
ID theft is the #1 crime
Organized crime is now heavily involved in the internet
Digital piracy is rampant
Wikileaks publishes *classified* information
Anonymous attacks companies, breaks laws flagrantly, and thumbs its nose at the government
LOLsec..... dont get me started. and they couldn't even remove their website
They are being reactive not proactive.
We want them to sit down, shut up, and go back to fixing (lllllaaaawwwwwlll!) the debt, right?
So lets figure out a way to try and fix the abovementioned problems FOR them.. since we know how to do it better.
Because if you are *not* going to police and punish piracy appropriately, then you might as well make it legal.
And if you think THAT is a good idea. ... .. .. .. ... then ... .... ... wow.
SOPA for the win, they need to pass it already.
"Should SOPA be stopped? - what is that for question? Is there even a question? Omg... journalism these days...
Hmm, I DUNNO,,, should Hitler have been stopped?! LOL
When discussions for a intranet start, you can feel free to fit less space between your words. They might start charging by volume.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
@Veratutazz
That's all well and good to be concerned about...
But I still can't quite figure out why the people crying the most about piracy and backing SOPA and PIPA the hardest, were actually the ones who created and/or proliferated the torrent software throughout the Internet which caused piracy to become so easy today .
Remember Limewire, Morpheus, Azureous, and all those other bittorrent programs? They were all hosted, usually exclusively, on websites like Download.com, ZDnet, etc. And not only were they hosted, but they were actually reviewed and advertised on the sites themselves. There were even staff articles explaining exactly how to use them and where to go to get torrents for copyrighted material.
If you actually look at who owns those websites... it's actually the same companies such as MSNBC, Viacom, Disney, etc, that are crying foul over piracy and pushing hard for SOPA and PIPA.
Something just doesn't sit quite right with me about all of that...
To answer your title: Yes it should.
Please keep your discussion limited to the OP. All other political discussion is against the ROC.
We in America are fighting for the beliefs of Jefferson and Franklin we are called the right. I'm a fiscal conservation libertarian and this crap must be stopped. Unforunately we have a portion of this country that doesn't seem to get what a danger these 2 pieces of legislation truly are to everyone that uses the internet.
Don't you have elections where you live? Are you in a Democratic Country?
If yes then you can replace your governement if it doe snot do its job well through the power of your vote in next elections.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Political discussion will get this locked, but to answer your point - "it doesn't work that way. Politicians will say whatever it takes to get into the game, then it's all lobbying, not about *you*."
Americans (little people) don't push laws, we just vote on them, and they can still be vetoed.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I belive that his act is a step in th right direction, online piracy has to be stopped some how, I howeve fail to see how this will affect any MMOs as there downloaded from online and yo can't get on without a paid account. But I thin this will help out other industries like movie and music to recieve moree profit. Everyone in america thinks they deserve everything and thats the attitude that's destroying our country.
Read up on the bill. Hopefully this will give you a better idea of how broad language can be manipulated.
Should both SOPA and PIPA be stopped?
Yes. No question.
Yes it should be stopped. This is not china just yet.