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General: Should SOPA Be Stopped?

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  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Slampig

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Remember remember the 5th of November...

    The plot itself or the fact it failed? Not really getting the whole point of the post...

    The point was to get people to think, which has become a lost art in this day and age. If people would start asking questions about why they're trying to implement this and who benefits, perhaps then we'd have a chance at salvaging the future.

    The rabbit hole is very deep and only those that ask questions will explore the depths in search of truth.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Texarkana, TXPosts: 705Member Uncommon

    Sad part is the answer is all ready being used by a lot of game companies.

    On-line gaming. Where you need to be on-line and have a unique key to play.

    The truth? The actual first bill will most likely just be a piece of paper giving some new organisation (directed by the big publishers) to draw up the regualtions that will benefit them the most and force most game Dev's to have to use them in the end.

    The real legislation is never in the original bills anymore, it is always written later in the reg's, by the ones that will benefit from them,  that no one knows about.

    We are not on the slippery slope anymore, we passed that long ago, we are in the free fall now, just waiting on the crash at the bottom.

  • theniffrigtheniffrig DublinPosts: 351Member

    You just know that even Captain America would be against this Act!

    But seriously, the internet is the internet. You can't police it entirely.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by precious328



    Originally posted by Cambruin



    Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.





     





    Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?





     





    These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.










     

    Piracy will never be terminated. Big piracy started with IRC networks to newsgroups, to programs like napster, bearshare, kazaa, to torrent websites.

     

    It will be like war against terror: A TOTAL MONEY-WASTING FAILURE.

    Obvious portals like torrent websites will be closed etc. But what about legit websites like filefront, megaupload, cnet, photobucket. These entities have so much material and SOME of it is user-uploaded pirated software. Shut those down because of the "chance" of piracy?

    Do we shut down YouTube as well because some users upload pirated movies and music?

    This is 100% correct. The only thing it would do is harm the legitimate user of the internet. Anti-gun laws, anti-terrorist laws, and now anti-priacy laws don't prevent criminals from committing crimes. If they had a respect for the law, well then they wouldn't be criminals in the first place.

    If SOPA and/or PIPA were to pass, a huge chunk of the internet could be blocked. Including this site and many of the other sites you enjoy. The owners of the site could become responsible for people posting copyright material. Think about the implications of Youtube or Google Video going away.

    Bottom line, the act still wouldn't prevent criminals from doing what they do.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon

    I feel like the devs from MO are our government.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Damn if Red 5 aren't slowly worming their way into my heart.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by Cambruin

    Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.

    Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?

     

    These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.

    Companies already have an avenue to pursue sites that host copyright infringing material.

    It's called a DMCA takedown notice, and it does have an impact.

    But it's not perfect in the eyes of the copyright goliaths, because it is still beholden to due process. You know, that thing the 5th ammendment to the US constitution is based around, which no organization including the government should be exempt from having to follow.

    Which is what SOPA ad PIPA would bypass. All they would need to do is point at a site that they claim is infringing, and a judge signs off on it if it looks like it is. The problem with this is that it bypasses due process because it skips over the part where the accused is informed and given the opportunity to defend themselves against the accusation.

    As for SOAP and PIPA stopping piracy, it won't. Torrents were actually the best thing to happen to the IP industries, because it brought piracy out in the open and gave IP holders the ability to track down persons who were pirating them via the IP that is broadcasted through torrenting. Prior to torrents, most piracy was done behind the scenes in a much more private manner via mIRC, which is infinitely harder to track down those who pirate.

    Even if SOPA and PIPA are passed, it will do nothing to stop these things. A torrent site might be taken down one day, only to get a new domain an hour later. Thanks to social media, the new domain can then be broadcasted out and they're back in business. Or hey, how about a browser extension that automatically resolves the IP for you, no need for a domain even if it does get hijacked from SOPA. Then of course there's the fact that all of the back room mIRC piracy would still be going on, and these bills would have zero capability in affecting it.

    Meanwhile, the rest of the Internet burns. Any website that allows for outside commenting, such as this, could be taken down for "infringement" merely because a member posted something that is claimed to be copyright infringement. Large corporations can claim infringement on competitors, who would have little recourse, particularly if they are a much smaller company that doesn't have the resources to fight back. Social sites like Facebook, Twitter, all collapse from "infringing" posts made by users. Ad agencies dry up and dissapear from the fallout of PIPA making it so them merely having an ad on an infringing site can mean their assets beign frozen. Again, all while priacy goes largely uneffected.

    I don't support piracy by any means. But in all honesty, these two bills completely miss the mark with regards to doing anything to stop piracy. Of course, that's if you actually believe the intent of these bills is to stop piracy.

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cambruin

    Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.

    Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?

    These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.

    what i see you failing to comprehend is that it's a law and piracy is already illegal. know what that means? it means that the only people who are actually going to be bothered by this are people and companies who use the internet within the bounds of the law. so all it's going to do is make life hell for those people, the lawful ones, while just putting a tiny speedbump in the road for those who use the internet for illegal activities.

  • 69Cuda69Cuda none of your fucking bussinesPosts: 251Member

    No SOPA needs to be shredded utterly. It's a music and movie business smokescreen for the real reason of control and money. Unfortunatly our congress is to stupid to inderstand anything in the bill , and that is assuming they would read it anyway since they normally don't read the legislation. They just vote how they have been paid to vote.

    On the flip side if it does go through Facebook will be destroyed overnight which would be a good thing.


     


    PS I bet Activision is all for this. If this passed it would be a wet dream for Bobby K. If it isn't COD or WoW BANNED!!!!. It has elves ...omg look at the UI!!....you have a riding mount? banned baned banned lol. The Acticrap Lawyers would be in party mode.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Originally posted by Cambruin

    Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.

     

    Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?

     

    These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.

     

    I agree with this.  

     

    On the other hand:  I wish I lived such a drama-free life that I could convince myself that this is the most important cause I can take up.    I kind of envy the "They are trying to oppress us!" people.


     

    What you and people like you are completely missing (which means you didn't read this article, since it addresses it) is that SOPA is worded in a way that creates a gray area for censorship beyond the scope of piracy. Very, VERY few people are complaining about the piracy portion of it. Most don't care. What people are concerned with is how this affects the internet and, ironically, the entertainment industry as a whole. Reading about the things you are defending is a good idea.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • livewenlivewen Los Angeles, CAPosts: 7Member

    To all involved.

     

    May all who are concerned about this issue should meet

    together and realize that the very code, word, and sequence of

    ideas are never your own to begin with. Should we pay the programmer's

    who developed the language, the developers of technology etc.  These are of a

    commonality of Human endeavor/ Origin of endeavor. Your disagreement flies in the

    face that all this  is contained on a room that is a rock in the middle of a spiraling

    carousel (galaxy). To resolve diffferences by a paper that says one ought to  be this way in ....

    is to say that the living do not live and are stuck not breathing a commonality of

    the sequential coherence. If that so then there is at least a seed/identity-kernel of agreement

    commonality of breath to speak,breath to hear, breath to be in common. Paper and pen cannot bind because it no longer is alive. The living is in the common bond of breath, beat

    and syncopation.     Agreeement /nix disagreement.

     

    Thank you,

     

    Livewen Hallvean

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by livewen

    To all involved.

    May all who are concerned about this issue should meet together and realize that the very code, word, and sequence of ideas are never your own to begin with. Should we pay the programmer's who developed the language, the developers of technology etc.  These are of a commonality of Human endeavor/ Origin of endeavor. Your disagreement flies in the face that all this  is contained on a room that is a rock in the middle of a spiraling carousel (galaxy). To resolve diffferences by a paper that says one ought to  be this way in .... is to say that the living do not live and are stuck not breathing a commonality of the sequential coherence. If that so then there is at least a seed/identity-kernel of agreement commonality of breath to speak,breath to hear, breath to be in common. Paper and pen cannot bind because it no longer is alive. The living is in the common bond of breath, beat and syncopation.     Agreeement /nix disagreement.

    Thank you,

    Livewen Hallvean

    okay. right. um.... what?

    not to be rude, but what are you talking about? that doesn't make any sense.


  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    I messed up who i wanted to quote, but basically "Why do we keep allowing the uneducated to vote?"

    What if they are educated, but they only vote for false issues like gay marriage and abortion rights?  These issues really don't mean anything (sorry social issues are just cited to get you angry and you're being played.)

    There are very smart people who are basically 1 or 2 issue voters (which is sad btw) because they let their emotions take over.

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member

    The bill got quashed because it was largely misinterpreted from the public.  Whenever any freedom or right is challenged people always compare it to a country with little to no rights.  China censors their Internet to prevent foreign cultures and influences from hitting their people.  Japan most noteably has become hyper American and lost its sense of culture.  Why would China want the same?

    China is by no means the only country in the world to DNS block.  As a matter of fact most countries other than America and third world countries DNS block.

    In the late 90s and early 2000s there was a rise to two types of evils that had to be stopped.  The first was more obvious because it was a consumer demanded evil, piracy.  Piracy allowed people to get things that was once inaccessible to them as well as steal things that are accessible to them.

    The thing that would cause Britian, Australia, and Canada to setup a DNS blocking system wasn't piracy but instead... child pornography.

    Currently the only people who are not blocking child pornography in the world are America and the people who make it.  The demand for child pornography would not be curbed if America blocked, however their funding would be cut to shreds and they would not be as large of an industry as they are.

    Honestly, a vote against SOPA is a vote for child subjugation and slavery, two industries greatly supported by an unmoderated Internet.

    This is what the American Congress was sold on and this is why they supported it so strongly.  When the Internet's neutrality was attacked everyone came forward.  The developers of the Internet even came forward and lied stating it would "break" the Internet.  Really?  Break the Internet?  The Internet has not been broken in any of the 200 countries that use DNS blocking.

    Overall this was a very powerful scare tactic deployed small studios and companies against giants.

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member



    Originally posted by 69Cuda

    No SOPA needs to be shredded utterly. It's a music and movie business smokescreen for the real reason of control and money. Unfortunatly our congress is to stupid to inderstand anything in the bill , and that is assuming they would read it anyway since they normally don't read the legislation. They just vote how they have been paid to vote.













    On the flip side if it does go through Facebook will be destroyed overnight which would be a good thing.














     














    PS I bet Activision is all for this. If this passed it would be a wet dream for Bobby K. If it isn't COD or WoW BANNED!!!!. It has elves ...omg look at the UI!!....you have a riding mount? banned baned banned lol. The Acticrap Lawyers would be in party mode.










     

    {mod edit}


  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by troublmaker

    The bill got quashed because it was largely misinterpreted from the public.  Whenever any freedom or right is challenged people always compare it to a country with little to no rights.  China censors their Internet to prevent foreign cultures and influences from hitting their people.  Japan most noteably has become hyper American and lost its sense of culture.  Why would China want the same?

    China is by no means the only country in the world to DNS block.  As a matter of fact most countries other than America and third world countries DNS block.

    In the late 90s and early 2000s there was a rise to two types of evils that had to be stopped.  The first was more obvious because it was a consumer demanded evil, piracy.  Piracy allowed people to get things that was once inaccessible to them as well as steal things that are accessible to them.

    The thing that would cause Britian, Australia, and Canada to setup a DNS blocking system wasn't piracy but instead... child pornography.

    Currently the only people who are not blocking child pornography in the world are America and the people who make it.  The demand for child pornography would not be curbed if America blocked, however their funding would be cut to shreds and they would not be as large of an industry as they are.

    Honestly, a vote against SOPA is a vote for child subjugation and slavery, two industries greatly supported by an unmoderated Internet.

    This is what the American Congress was sold on and this is why they supported it so strongly.  When the Internet's neutrality was attacked everyone came forward.  The developers of the Internet even came forward and lied stating it would "break" the Internet.  Really?  Break the Internet?  The Internet has not been broken in any of the 200 countries that use DNS blocking.

    Overall this was a very powerful scare tactic deployed small studios and companies against giants.

    i'll bite. first: china's great firewall is up to keep the public uninformed and moveable with propaganda. seriously. if you believe that "keeping our culture" thing then, well, you must live in china. second: cp and theft have existed long before, and will exist long after the internet. nothing new there. people do that. it's called human nature. third: america is supposed to be the home of the free remember? the place where people can go to escape suppression. but if this bill passes, and this sort of censorship and corporate domination is allowed to become the status quo for america, what then will happen to the rest of the world? if the land of the free has this sort of draconian law, then it is no longer striving for the ideals it should be.

  • ArforyonArforyon PortoPosts: 7Member

    SOPA does not mean fighting piracy, the companies that distributed andinjected softwares like Kazaa, Limewire, bittorrent and many many other sharing websites and software programs, the ones that made profit out of indulging people to share copyright music, videos and so on, are the same companies now the main contributors to SOPA, so that they can make even more profit by sueing people sharing files, mainly by using their own distributed software. 

    If SOPA ever goes through, it means that you cannot upload a video to youtube with music or video in it, you cannot post a link in your facebook, sites like google, youtube, twitter, facebook, game streaming, even this one, would have tremendous ammounts of legal issues, some to the point of shutting down.

    Even actual piracy being bad, SOPA won't stop it and that is not the intent either, SOPA is not about a moral concern on piracy, SOPA its about companies profiting with sueing people and controlling the internet.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,479Member Uncommon

    In the USA we need more amendments to the constitution to counter everything in SOPA so that this dies forever!  We need to prevent other stuff like net neutrality, fair use and satire rights, business are not people and money is not free speech.  We must cut the money out of funding political campaigns so add limits such as:  only people (remember business are not people) can donate and then only to someone they can vote for and to a limited amount of money.

  • VicDonneganVicDonnegan Atlanta, GAPosts: 106Member

    Originally posted by Dragonantis

    As usual, The American Federal Government trying to control everything in the world.

     

    Down with Sopa!

    There, fixed it for you. I'm an American citizen and want SOPA to die, and fast.

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by troublmaker

    The bill got quashed because it was largely misinterpreted from the public.  Whenever any freedom or right is challenged people always compare it to a country with little to no rights.  China censors their Internet to prevent foreign cultures and influences from hitting their people.  Japan most noteably has become hyper American and lost its sense of culture.  Why would China want the same?

    China is by no means the only country in the world to DNS block.  As a matter of fact most countries other than America and third world countries DNS block.

    In the late 90s and early 2000s there was a rise to two types of evils that had to be stopped.  The first was more obvious because it was a consumer demanded evil, piracy.  Piracy allowed people to get things that was once inaccessible to them as well as steal things that are accessible to them.

    The thing that would cause Britian, Australia, and Canada to setup a DNS blocking system wasn't piracy but instead... child pornography.

    Currently the only people who are not blocking child pornography in the world are America and the people who make it.  The demand for child pornography would not be curbed if America blocked, however their funding would be cut to shreds and they would not be as large of an industry as they are.

    Honestly, a vote against SOPA is a vote for child subjugation and slavery, two industries greatly supported by an unmoderated Internet.

    This is what the American Congress was sold on and this is why they supported it so strongly.  When the Internet's neutrality was attacked everyone came forward.  The developers of the Internet even came forward and lied stating it would "break" the Internet.  Really?  Break the Internet?  The Internet has not been broken in any of the 200 countries that use DNS blocking.

    Overall this was a very powerful scare tactic deployed small studios and companies against giants.

    Actually, the Internet IS broken from it's original intent in the countries that do practice oppressive levels of DNS blocking and other Internet restrictions. Look at the censorship in China. Free speech is being oppressed on the Internet via the filtering done on subject matter that does not run in parrallel to the government's way of thinking. Not to mention that in Canada, many ISPs try to throttle down any and all torrent traffic, despite the fact that there are many legitimate and legal uses for torrents -- many MMOs patch using torrents for example.

    Yes there are many undesirable things on the Internet, but there are already laws in place that allow for these things to be dealt with and the persons responsible for them to be pursued. The difference however, is that these current laws require due process. SOPA and PIPA would bypass due process, which breaches the fifth ammendment of the US constitution.

    SOPA and PIPA will not stop the undersirable things from being on the Internet. All it will do is sweep them under the rug and make them much more difficult for law enforcement to track down and apprehend those who are actually commiting crimes facilitated by the Internet. The damage will be to the myriad of legitimate sites and services that rely on the openess and freeness of the Internet to thrive.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,172Member Uncommon

    SOPA was the foot in the door, PIPA is the primary target. Honestly how is this even a topic after I've been banned twice for trying to raise awareness?

    What is sad is that half of this community has given money to EA in the past 3 months so that EA can further fund the lobbying these bills.

  • MeltdownMeltdown Home, NHPosts: 1,184Member Uncommon

    Here I found a better link explaining the SOPA situation than the one linked previously:

    http://gigaom.com/2012/01/16/house-shelves-sopa-but-blackout-protests-continue/

     

    SOPA delayed until consensus can be reached and PIPA goes forward to a vote in the Senate, which PIPA has been referred to as SOPA's twin. Still sounds like a bait and switch to me.

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member

    Why is it ok NOW to discuss SOPA. when 2-3 weeks ago you guys were locking/deleting any SOPA thread? What a joke. I even made a topic to plead MMORPG to allow its discussion but mike B said he wouldnt allow it because he was affraid it would allow for future "well you let them talk about SOPA" arguments on future political discussions.

    I am glad we can talk about it now, but would you guys make up your mind? This hyporcritical nonsense is far from proffesional.

     

    Edity tomorrow wikipedia will blackout in protest of SOPA and PIPA. I wish Facebook would do the same, then millions of people would be effected

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    It seems to me that the problem is more a lack of competitive spirit with movie studios and the industry in general.  Why can redbox give me a physical product for a dollar that costs 4 dollars to stream on amazon?  It makes no sense.  Who's going to bother pirating if they could stream a movie for a dollar instead of the current ridiculous rate?  Not that many, and if they do, then they weren't going to rent it in the first place even if that torrent wasn't available.

    For music, people use itunes and other online retailers now, the problem of piracy in music is really very overstated.

    Gaming, people rent if they don't want to pay full price, and everyone I know who really is a fan of gaming buys games that are high quality with a lot of content just to support the developers.

    And finally, online gaming, live concerts, and good quality movie theater experiences should be what the industry focuses on for profits, things that people can't get at home free or not.

    ---

    All that being said, I'm not up on how magnets work, but I know torrents rely on many simultaneous connections.  It's in fact the only commonly used application that does.  ISP's could restrict how many different IPs you can connect to in a certain period of time, and that would more or less destroy the technology responsible for most of the piracy.  All without having to invade privacy or censor websites.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,430Member Uncommon

    I'm getting a lot of conflicting info about these bills.

    I've read the Wikipedia entry on it, and it doesn't jive with all the claims and fears of what people are saying it will allow. But I'm not sure, and of course Wikipedia can be abused at times (even though they make a remarkable effort against that).

    I guess I need to read the bill itself and do some studying to be sure of any conclusions I come to.

    Once upon a time....

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