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Will MMORPGs ever return to the Everquest/UO Days?

24

Comments

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    Originally posted by leojreimroc

    Your statement doesn't make much sense.  Yes new classical music is being composed, but it is not the same as classical music from the 18th century.  New music is completely different than Beethoven, Bach etc.  People who compose in exactly the same style as Beethoven don't get much attention.  It's been done before and why would you listen to some 3rd rate composer compose something in old styles when you can just listen to the masters.  And I'm not saying this new music is mainstream, it's not, but it certain does not ressemble older styles of classical music, even if people still call it "classical music"

    Music has moved on, and is always changing.  So are games.

    The problem with this is you can still "listen to the masters." This isn't available in MMOs- the closest you'd get is the same song remixed into dubstep or some other horrid abomination of the originals.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Some elements of UO or EQ *may* return, but I would suggest the following will NOT in a AAA MMO...

    1) The harsh time sink of EQ. That includes big death penalty, sitting around to mana up, camping, very rare spawn, non-instance dungeons/boss fights ... most of these do NOT add challenge but only frustration and time needed to spend on the game.

    2) FFA PvP in UO

    Surely there is always the niche, indie market and there may be *some* small games with these characteristics. However, they are no longer mainstream and i do not see a AAA MMO would have such design.

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by Venger


    Originally posted by Matt1128Y

     same thing as WoW.

    Since WoW didn't really do anything beside tweak leveling speeds does that mean that everything is a EQ lite clone?

    Tweak? They destroyed leveling speed.

    They also simplified classes, led players by the hand from one area to the next, turned faction gains/losses into a joke, reduced max-level advancement to pure gear grinding, did away with armor cusomization, eliminated 90% of the incentive to be social with other players, and created a compact world comprised of playpens with mountains for bars.

     

    I whole-heartedly believe that if WoW had been the exact same game WITHOUT the Warcraft name attached to it, it would not still be around today.

    You see I started mmos with UO.  So most of the things you are blasting WoW about I think the exact same thing about EQ.  It is all about prospective.

    EQ went so far to the time sink side that WoW was a natural gut check.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Yes, let us return to the dark days where having 300k subs was considered 'gigantic', where playing an MMO was not something you said socially. /sarcasm

    Last I checked, EQ/UO are still up and running so what's the problem?

     

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Yes, let us return to the dark days where having 300k subs was considered 'gigantic', where playing an MMO was not something you said socially. /sarcasm

    Last I checked, EQ/UO are still up and running so what's the problem?

     

    They're old and we've been there and done that.

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member



    Originally posted by jpnz
    Yes, let us return to the dark days where having 300k subs was considered 'gigantic', where playing an MMO was not something you said socially. /sarcasm
    Last I checked, EQ/UO are still up and running so what's the problem?
     

     
    Don't mean to burst your bubble but maintaining 300k suns for years like those games did is still gigantic. Currently only Wow and swtor are over a million and maybe 5-10 with 200k or more. There's what 500 running mmo's Atm so only 5-10 having a sizeable playerbase is huge.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by leojreimroc

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by leojreimroc

    I think statements like this thread's title makes people sound like old farts.  "Will music come back to the glory days of the 60s"  "Movies aren't the same anymore as they were in the past".

     

    The thing is, any art form changes with time.  As people change, so do anything that they create and consume.  Games won't stay in the state that they are now forever.  They will change.  But asking for them to return to an old style is silly.  They will change in ways that we can't predict. 

     

    You want to keep playing games?  You have to adapt to how they are or move on.  Same with music, movies or anything else.  Either that or you can keep listening to that elvis vinyl over and over again.  I'm not saying that listening to old music or playing old games is bad.  I'm just saying it's unreasonable to want current media to adopt those old styles.

    There are still artists creating music and movies of every genre out there. Even new classical-style music is being composed everyday. It may not be mainstream, but it exists. Therein lies the difference with MMOs. Those old-style games no longer exist. At least not in a recognizable capacity. There's certainly a place for the easy-mode theme park MMOs that seem to be popular today, but when thats the ONLY thing being made, its a valid complaint that something different needs to come along.

    Your statement doesn't make much sense.  Yes new classical music is being composed, but it is not the same as classical music from the 18th century.  New music is completely different than Beethoven, Bach etc.  People who compose in exactly the same style as Beethoven don't get much attention.  It's been done before and why would you listen to some 3rd rate composer compose something in old styles when you can just listen to the masters.  And I'm not saying this new music is mainstream, it's not, but it certain does not ressemble older styles of classical music, even if people still call it "classical music"

    Music has moved on, and is always changing.  So are games.

    But we're not talking about exact remakes of the old games, either. We're talking about new games done in the same style. So where is the difference, exactly?

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon

    What we had in those old games is not recreatable.

    you cannot make the same anymore the current market wants something else.

  • HalfmadHalfmad Mortal Online Correspondent GlasgowPosts: 83Member

    UO etc were from a time when players were on average a little older than they are these days, those days will never return as those players have moved on or have become diluted amongst the miriad of MMOs available. I'm still in touch with old UO players 12 years on from our first meeting in-game, but none of us play the same games anymore.

    As many people have already said because the players have changed so had the demands the market is making, you might not like non-sandbox games but that's where the demand is, all I'm hoping for is one good Sandbox to come out soon which I can invest some time into over the next couple of years and get some fun back. DF2.0 would tempt me but I've no idea when it'll come and I dont' want to starting playing DF to find that a wipe does happen.

    Dominus is the main one I'm waiting on, trying not to get too excited about it though.

  • judex99judex99 Jacksonville, CAPosts: 396Member

    Originally posted by xeniar

    What we had in those old games is not recreatable.

    you cannot make the same anymore the current market wants something less.

    fixed

  • MahloMahlo YorkshirePosts: 798Member

    Originally posted by leojreimroc

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by leojreimroc

    I think statements like this thread's title makes people sound like old farts.  "Will music come back to the glory days of the 60s"  "Movies aren't the same anymore as they were in the past".

     

    The thing is, any art form changes with time.  As people change, so do anything that they create and consume.  Games won't stay in the state that they are now forever.  They will change.  But asking for them to return to an old style is silly.  They will change in ways that we can't predict. 

     

    You want to keep playing games?  You have to adapt to how they are or move on.  Same with music, movies or anything else.  Either that or you can keep listening to that elvis vinyl over and over again.  I'm not saying that listening to old music or playing old games is bad.  I'm just saying it's unreasonable to want current media to adopt those old styles.

    There are still artists creating music and movies of every genre out there. Even new classical-style music is being composed everyday. It may not be mainstream, but it exists. Therein lies the difference with MMOs. Those old-style games no longer exist. At least not in a recognizable capacity. There's certainly a place for the easy-mode theme park MMOs that seem to be popular today, but when thats the ONLY thing being made, its a valid complaint that something different needs to come along.

    Your statement doesn't make much sense.  Yes new classical music is being composed, but it is not the same as classical music from the 18th century.  New music is completely different than Beethoven, Bach etc.  People who compose in exactly the same style as Beethoven don't get much attention.  It's been done before and why would you listen to some 3rd rate composer compose something in old styles when you can just listen to the masters.  And I'm not saying this new music is mainstream, it's not, but it certain does not ressemble older styles of classical music, even if people still call it "classical music"

    Music has moved on, and is always changing.  So are games.

    leojmreimroc is correct in everything he says. The problem also is that things from the past are never remembered as they actually were. All the flaws are forgotten. The contemporary is always viewed critically, however. And it seems to be just human nature to think everything is going to pot. People have thought this way since they thought at all.

  • PlasmicredxPlasmicredx Strogg CityPosts: 629Member
    Originally posted by Mahlo


    Originally posted by leojreimroc


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm



    Originally posted by leojreimroc


    I think statements like this thread's title makes people sound like old farts.  "Will music come back to the glory days of the 60s"  "Movies aren't the same anymore as they were in the past".
     
    The thing is, any art form changes with time.  As people change, so do anything that they create and consume.  Games won't stay in the state that they are now forever.  They will change.  But asking for them to return to an old style is silly.  They will change in ways that we can't predict. 
     
    You want to keep playing games?  You have to adapt to how they are or move on.  Same with music, movies or anything else.  Either that or you can keep listening to that elvis vinyl over and over again.  I'm not saying that listening to old music or playing old games is bad.  I'm just saying it's unreasonable to want current media to adopt those old styles.

    There are still artists creating music and movies of every genre out there. Even new classical-style music is being composed everyday. It may not be mainstream, but it exists. Therein lies the difference with MMOs. Those old-style games no longer exist. At least not in a recognizable capacity. There's certainly a place for the easy-mode theme park MMOs that seem to be popular today, but when thats the ONLY thing being made, its a valid complaint that something different needs to come along.

    Your statement doesn't make much sense.  Yes new classical music is being composed, but it is not the same as classical music from the 18th century.  New music is completely different than Beethoven, Bach etc.  People who compose in exactly the same style as Beethoven don't get much attention.  It's been done before and why would you listen to some 3rd rate composer compose something in old styles when you can just listen to the masters.  And I'm not saying this new music is mainstream, it's not, but it certain does not ressemble older styles of classical music, even if people still call it "classical music"

    Music has moved on, and is always changing.  So are games.

    leojmreimroc is correct in everything he says. The problem also is that things from the past are never remembered as they actually were. All the flaws are forgotten. The contemporary is always viewed critically, however. And it seems to be just human nature to think everything is going to pot. People have thought this way since they thought at all.

    Yes, people can do that. No, not all people do. Some people can actually speak objectively sometimes.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by Mahlo

    leojmreimroc is correct in everything he says. The problem also is that things from the past are never remembered as they actually were. All the flaws are forgotten. The contemporary is always viewed critically, however. And it seems to be just human nature to think everything is going to pot. People have thought this way since they thought at all.

    I never claimed, nor have I implied, that the old MMOs were flawless. I only stated that I like them better. Don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that "flaws are forgotten". Not everyone considers the same features "flaws" as others anyway. A lot of the "flaws" I find with, for example, WoW, might be exactly what someone else is looking for in an MMO, and that's alright. I'm not trying to deny anyone else their game style of choice, just saying that there's room for more than just one style of MMO in today's market.

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon

    i hope not.  those days werent really all that fun. they were just all we had at the time.

    but you know, if you miss eq and uo so bad they are both still running and nothings stoping you from going back.

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by Mahlo



    leojmreimroc is correct in everything he says. The problem also is that things from the past are never remembered as they actually were. All the flaws are forgotten. The contemporary is always viewed critically, however. And it seems to be just human nature to think everything is going to pot. People have thought this way since they thought at all.

    I never claimed, nor have I implied, that the old MMOs were flawless. I only stated that I like them better. Don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that "flaws are forgotten". Not everyone considers the same features "flaws" as others anyway. A lot of the "flaws" I find with, for example, WoW, might be exactly what someone else is looking for in an MMO, and that's alright. I'm not trying to deny anyone else their game style of choice, just saying that there's room for more than just one style of MMO in today's market.

    One thing that does get brought up a lot and is never actually answered by these so called 'there should be more than one style of MMO!' people is this; are you saying there are only one style of MMO right now?

    I'm looking at the side bar of this very site and I can factually say that you are lying.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • LienhartLienhart Markham, ONPosts: 635Member

    I'll answer this in a very very simple way for everyone to understand:

    Not if the developers want to make a profitable game that doesn't consist of people who are jobless, uneducated, flipping burgers, or have way too much time on their hands.

    Hell, I'm not even sure if the failures of life could afford time to play MMOs, so what category were the old players, like myself back in high school when I had too much time, called? Kids? Basement dwellers?

  • mhoward48mhoward48 Florida Keys, FLPosts: 94Member

    I know I have not played one that was challenging and fun since Vanguard, and that one was not finished. I have hope for Copernicus, nothing else coming down the line looks good yet. Maybe Eq next, will see.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by Mahlo



    leojmreimroc is correct in everything he says. The problem also is that things from the past are never remembered as they actually were. All the flaws are forgotten. The contemporary is always viewed critically, however. And it seems to be just human nature to think everything is going to pot. People have thought this way since they thought at all.

    I never claimed, nor have I implied, that the old MMOs were flawless. I only stated that I like them better. Don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that "flaws are forgotten". Not everyone considers the same features "flaws" as others anyway. A lot of the "flaws" I find with, for example, WoW, might be exactly what someone else is looking for in an MMO, and that's alright. I'm not trying to deny anyone else their game style of choice, just saying that there's room for more than just one style of MMO in today's market.

    One thing that does get brought up a lot and is never actually answered by these so called 'there should be more than one style of MMO!' people is this; are you saying there are only one style of MMO right now?

    I'm looking at the side bar of this very site and I can factually say that you are lying.

    So you're telling me there are relatively recent MMOs out there that are NOT solo-focused theme parks? I'd love to know of them. The most recent one I know of is Final Fantasy XI, which is still pretty old.

  • kostoslavkostoslav somborPosts: 459Member

    I was never so fortunate as many of u did, to play UO when it was in its peak, coz in thet time most towns here had only 56k net. I was able to get better net during the WoWs release date, so I went to WoW.

    First time I ve tried UO, it just looked ugly. They shoud update the game looks. If we cant get similar  game, we could play the old one in the new surrounding. :)

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by Lienhart

    I'll answer this in a very very simple way for everyone to understand:

    Not if the developers want to make a profitable game that doesn't consist of people who are jobless, uneducated, flipping burgers, or have way too much time on their hands.

    Hell, I'm not even sure if the failures of life could afford time to play MMOs, so what category were the old players, like myself back in high school when I had too much time, called? Kids? Basement dwellers?

    Baseless stereotypes don't make a very convincing argument.

  • VegettoVegetto WorcesterPosts: 841Member

    I'm currently weighing up possibly trying older MMOs that i tried once or never tried, as i know ArchAge won't be out this year for a number of reasons, but it may actually never release in the west at all.

    Vanguard: Played not long after release and i found population issues extreme then, so god knows what it's like now with one foot in the grave. No grouping/other players, no game for me.

    Mortal: From what i have researched into the game, it appears it is very amatuerish on just about every level and i do remember the release - The countdown clock to when the shop opened to order the limited collectors edition for a huge amount. Alot of burnt fingers there. I wouldn't trust them with my money tbh.

    Darkfall: Tried it, liked it, but it catergorically requires you to grind for months before being able to play properly. You cannot do a thing unless you are levelled sufficiently and many exploited this. Even when i played maybe last year or so, we had bloodwalls. I can't play a game where 99% of the people around me exploited their character. I like the idea though, but the 2.0 thing has all but killed this title.

    Age of Conan: One i regreat i never tried. This was due to the Tortage issue. I'm an open world, freedom, 'take in the view' type person, so when i heard tortage was all closed in and you couldn't actually goto most of the areas you see, i didn't bother. However, i gather this was just for the first 20 levels. I am seriously thinking of trying this game. Although i understand it is a themepark, it does have the feel of a sandbox when you look at it. Worrying future though since F2P and Funcom have another favourite kid in the making.

    Fallen Earth: I personally found this a very beautiful game and the sunsets are the best i have seen. They got the environment and setting spot on. I didn't even mind the combat. The economy was worst i've seen, as vendors sold everything a player could. Why did i stop? There is no single reason to group and therefore...you never will. Ironically, the loneliness of the apocalypse is not something you can stand longterm. Heard it is busier now since F2P, but is everyone still playing solo with no chat?

    So looking at my comments, it is clear that i value a strong population and grouping ethic, where you will often see other players, but have an open world to explore with them. Star Wars Galaxies Friday Night Hunts were amazing, about 30 grouping up to kill rancors, meet at the station, and set up camps every so often, having a laugh along the way. You could solo most things, but it just was better and easier with other people. That's the trick, no forced grouping, but make it so it's a better experience.

    As it stands, there is no game on the horizon that i can see, offers anything close to a living world MMO, so it would appear one must 'go back' rather than look forward. But which game will be the one that survives longest from the above?

    image

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    Originally posted by kostoslav

    I was never so fortunate as many of u did, to play UO when it was in its peak, coz in thet time most towns here had only 56k net. I was able to get better net during the WoWs release date, so I went to WoW.

    First time I ve tried UO, it just looked ugly. They shoud update the game looks. If we cant get similar ne game, we could play the old one in the new surrounding. :)

     

    In some ways looking back I think having played UO at that time was a curse.

     

    I absolutely hated EQ and we aren't talking about having fanboi/troll days back then.   The market was relatively small... most people outside of my UO guild had never even heard of UO.   Even then in 1999...

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    Originally posted by kostoslav

    I was never so fortunate as many of u did, to play UO when it was in its peak, coz in thet time most towns here had only 56k net. I was able to get better net during the WoWs release date, so I went to WoW.

    First time I ve tried UO, it just looked ugly. They shoud update the game looks. If we cant get similar  game, we could play the old one in the new surrounding. :)

     

    In some ways looking back I think having played UO at that time was a curse.

     

    I absolutely hated EQ and we aren't talking about having fanboi/troll days back then. The market was relatively small... most people I met in EQ outside of my UO guild had never even heard of UO. Even then in 1999...

     

    I would log into EQ now and then to talk to old guildies. However, if EQ had been the first MMO I bought I would have never played another... and maybe that would have been better.

     

    More or less now I dabble in various MMO's and never get a game I really want to play. Then I come post on this forum or something...

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • EthianEthian Montreal, QCPosts: 1,216Member

    Yet another canceled sub post. Servers should be merging here soon, likely within the next 1-2 months. Bioware could have brought so much more to the genre but instead they decided to put all their money into out-dated cut scene graphics rather then coming up with an original and unique MMO. Bioware joins up with EA and instead of creating an epic MMO for the gamers, they focus on the $$ and produce a bland, un-inspired RPG.

    And we continue to wait for the other, more thought out MMOs to hit the shelves. In meantime my console is keeping me more then busy :-)

    "I play Tera for the gameplay"

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by Lienhart
    I'll answer this in a very very simple way for everyone to understand:
    Not if the developers want to make a profitable game that doesn't consist of people who are jobless, uneducated, flipping burgers, or have way too much time on their hands.
    Hell, I'm not even sure if the failures of life could afford time to play MMOs, so what category were the old players, like myself back in high school when I had too much time, called? Kids? Basement dwellers?

    Baseless stereotypes don't make a very convincing argument.


    The general premise is sound though. AAA developers are not going to make games that require players to be tied to the game for many hours at a time. Not for a large scale audience. You will see this from smaller developers, but only because the 'casual' market is tied up by the AAA developers.

    So the general answer is, even if Theme Parks go out of style, there will not be a return to the UO/EQ1 days. The market will move on to something else.

    ** edit **
    Think of it like this. The entire market for UO/EQ was 750,000 people at their peak. The entire market for MMORPG was roughly a million people. That's how many people might play a UO/EQ game. The market for SWToR alone is 2 million people. Rift was over a million people by itself. There aren't enough people to sustain a AAA UO/EQ game. It will be smaller developers or nothing.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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