Let me just say that I find it very funny that I ask you to put the scores secondary to the words, and the comments quickly became all about the scores.
I get your concerns folks, really I do. But we are trying to do our best service and honest recommendations on every game we review, which means we're writing about the good and the bad equally, which makes the scores seem unjust. That's sort of my point. But rather than us NOT write about the bad, I'm asking you to realize that a score of 8/10 can mean a game's a lot of fun despite its faults.
Additionally, the stance we take on scoring in general is akin to a Grade Scale in any American High School. Anything below 6 is likely considered failing, a 7 is a C, an 8 is a B, and an A (90/100+) is damned near perfect.
Again, you may not agree with this method, but it IS how we do things and we ARE always evaluating things.
Sorry, but the highlighted line is just not true. The reviews do contain some cons, but those are mostly light in weight and often give the impression that they are sort of placeholders just to have some cons at all.
The reviews barely ever touch the real problems of a game, those one can read about in the forums. It's just like all interviews with your industrie friends never contain the burning questions nor does your coverage ever display the many live problems a game has (like your at times daily Rift coverage never did).
Recent example the SWTOR review...who can deny that the game lacks numerous, a decade old basic MMORPG features, has bugs galore and suffers on conceptional design errors. Reviewed as an MMORPG, the list of cons could easily contain like 20 points.
But nevermind, we've got it by now. You try to do the split between those who pay you to write and those who just come to read.
Do the writeup with full explanations of the testers feelings about features and let the readers decide. This site is about the written word and if gamers need a tl:dr on a review of a game they may actually have an interest in... maybe they should be watching videos on youtube.
Add in a precis about the reviewers typical gamestyle so the reader knows where the reviewer is coming from.
We don't need to be spoonfed, we're all past babyhood and have learned how to read.
But nevermind, we've got it by now. You try to do the split between those who pay you to write and those who just come to read.
Are you insinuating that publishers pay off reviewers? As much as I would have loved to get a giant stipend from Riot for my review I can say that your implication is 100% verifiably not true.
Also if the pros and cons list had 40 total points then a) no one would read the actual review and b) the review format would become unwieldy and messy. If you want detailed pros and cons read the review in its entirety. The small list is supposed to be a brief snapshot of some of the most prevalent problems/successes of the game, not an end-all-be-all judgement on the entire product and experience.
Heh, I remember being up at five in the morning after staying up all night tweaking my LoL review. I knew putting that ten in Innovation could lead to being condemned in the comments (and that did happen to a point) but I'll be damned if I could dissuade myself from doing so.
Another reason I think Bill has a great point here is that sometimes the numbers are a bit misleading. More than once I've gotten to the end of a review and averaged out the scores only to be faced with an overall score that I'm surprised at. As tempting as it is to alter some category grades to bump the total score up or down I always left them as is as my category scores were my god's honest opinions. That happened with the LoL review.
Also I like to make a point of giving more diverse scores in my reviews. At the end of the day seeing a bunch of sevens and eights aren't very informative, which is why I prefer maning up so to say and doling out sixes and fives and even tens if I feel that is the case.
Maybe one day we can do away with numbers though, that would be grand! :]
Geezus christ people, all reviews no matter which set of writers you're reading from is all indicitative of THEIR own experiences, perspectives, bias etc. It is there to help others, especially less knowledgable players regarding a specific field, provide some knowledge and background about things they aren't familiar with. No matter who writes them they are all going to be opinions, the people here aren't trying to run for President of Online Virtual Gaming Reality or anything so he's not here to represent the masses and ensure the laws/bills are written properly to represent the wants and desires of everyone around the world.
If you don't respect the opinion of the writers or have formed you're own a long time ago, no one is making you listen or follow it! If you think you're opinion so great, go get a job and become a writer so the world can hear your 2 cents that they most likely don't care about not nearly to the extent as others do at websites like these.
If not, then stfu and take it for what it is. I appreciate the time and effort writers anywhere put into sharing their experiences and providing their opinions but in the end its merely their opinion. They aren't part of the MMORPG Standardized Scores for the World to Follow or Else, geezus man. When we are arguing over things like an "Excellent" because it reflects a high score OPINION of a writer and that becoming misleading, I think you as a gamer have turned a corner.
I can imagine many of you sitting at your desk with your monocle and top hat and puffy red sweaty cheeks typing away at how the writers are wrong again! When has game reviews become so political? Absolutely ridiculous.
Originally posted by sanman7890 Heh, I remember being up at five in the morning after staying up all night tweaking my LoL review. I knew putting that ten in Innovation could lead to being condemned in the comments (and that did happen to a point) but I'll be damned if I could dissuade myself from doing so.Another reason I think Bill has a great point here is that sometimes the numbers are a bit misleading. More than once I've gotten to the end of a review and averaged out the scores only to be faced with an overall score that I'm surprised at. As tempting as it is to alter some category grades to bump the total score up or down I always left them as is as my category scores were my god's honest opinions. That happened with the LoL review.Also I like to make a point of giving more diverse scores in my reviews. At the end of the day seeing a bunch of sevens and eights aren't very informative, which is why I prefer maning up so to say and doling out sixes and fives and even tens if I feel that is the case.Maybe one day we can do away with numbers though, that would be grand! :]
In regards to utilizing numbers and scales as a way to express an opinion is that everyone takes these numbers and scale it differently to their own opinions. I highly doubt you can take 2 people, look at a set of scores, give them a scale and make them feel the same about them. A 5 to someone might mean neither good or bad, but to someone else it could just mean bad. A 10 might mean absolute perfection and near impossible to acquire to one person, but that could merely just mean that game was great (not necessarily perfect) to another.
Given this, I would support the notion to not utilize these numbers at all and just give like a word, "Terrible or Bad" or "Great or One of the Best" or "Mediocre, Fun but Needs Improvement" etc. This probably communicates more, keeps everyone more on the same page without the confusion of the numbers, which can mean different things to different people.
Let me just say that I find it very funny that I ask you to put the scores secondary to the words, and the comments quickly became all about the scores.
I get your concerns folks, really I do. But we are trying to do our best service and honest recommendations on every game we review, which means we're writing about the good and the bad equally, which makes the scores seem unjust. That's sort of my point. But rather than us NOT write about the bad, I'm asking you to realize that a score of 8/10 can mean a game's a lot of fun despite its faults.
Additionally, the stance we take on scoring in general is akin to a Grade Scale in any American High School. Anything below 6 is likely considered failing, a 7 is a C, an 8 is a B, and an A (90/100+) is damned near perfect.
Again, you may not agree with this method, but it IS how we do things and we ARE always evaluating things.
There is a clear discrepancy between the scores given and the actual content of the reviews on this site. But I don't think the issue is the discrepancy itself, but the fact that we don't really know what those "scores" stands for. If each writer were to write the very same exact review, word for word, they would still score the game differently, and I think that's where members are confused.
I believe MMORPG.com should have a single grading system and have all the writers follow this same scale. Also explaining in detail the grading system and what each value stands for would be a good thing to do as well, so that everyone can be on the same "level" as far as reading and understanding. In addition, I believe Writers should also explain their scores, because as you said, a game can have many flaws yet be scored higher because it's a very enjoyable game. If writers were to justify their scores, I believe it would be a lot easier for the readers to understand from the perspective of the writer.
I's also very difficult for me to read that scores don't really matter, yet when we look at the SWTOR Roundtable review (for example), the first thing you will read is this : "BILL MURPHY - 9/10". Or when you look at reviews from the review page of this website, "FINAL SCORE - X.X" with a relatively large police. These are the first thing that members will notice. If scores really don't matter as much as the reviews themselves, perhaps re-thinking the placement of those scores may be a wise thing.
The fact is that, scores do matters. Not everyone reads the entire review (as much as I believe that they should), so the scoring system is very important. It also reflects greatly in websites such as Metacritics. I think it was 2 years ago when one of the writers here (I believe it was Jon Wood?) wrote an article about reading comprehension if I remember correctly, and near the end of the article he asked members who commented to write something and include "Jon Wood" in the comment. Few did.
TL;DR Make an article about the grading score itself explaining each score in detail. Have writers follow this grading score more closely. Writers should explain the score they give.
We already have a criteria for reviews, and if we took all our time explaining our score there would be a dearth of writing about the actual game.
There are two sides to the coin unfortunately.
Few lines are required to justify the score. For example, many of the scores/reviews on Skyrim can be summed up to this "While many bugs, horrible UI and sometime game breaking bugs were found, the whole experience is so captivating that I simply can't stop playing it. For that I give it an 9/10, fix the bugs and it's a 10/10. I''m having so much fun!". On the other hand, the PS3 review for this would be "While the game has been very fun to play, the countless issues on the PS3 have made this game practically unplayable. For that I give it a 5/10. Fix the game ASAP".
It's simply intended to make the bridge between the review (which can either have many very positive critique, or negative, or both) and the score so that readers can understand the discrepancy between them without some players thinking like "they are giving high scores because they get paid", or low scores because "they're just a bunch of haters who know nothing about games". It's simply a bridge that gives a short insight that may or may not have been noticeable throughout the review.
We already have a criteria for reviews, and if we took all our time explaining our score there would be a dearth of writing about the actual game.
There are two sides to the coin unfortunately.
Few lines are required to justify the score. For example, many of the scores/reviews on Skyrim can be summed up to this "While many bugs, horrible UI and sometime game breaking bugs were found, the whole experience is so captivating that I simply can't stop playing it. For that I give it an 9/10, fix the bugs and it's a 10/10. I''m having so much fun!". On the other hand, the PS3 review for this would be "While the game has been very fun to play, the countless issues on the PS3 have made this game practically unplayable. For that I give it a 5/10. Fix the game ASAP".
It's simply intended to make the bridge between the review (which can either have many very positive critique, or negative, or both) and the score so that readers can understand the discrepancy between them without some players thinking like "they are giving high scores because they get paid", or low scores because "they're just a bunch of haters who know nothing about games". It's simply a bridge that gives a short insight that may or may not have been noticeable throughout the review.
So basically you want a summary statement ending with a score then?
I suppose that is easy enough.
I was assuming you meant more of an analysis of why each category earned a specific score, and me being quite a wordy fellow would take quite a bit of room to exhaustively explain each score.
So basically you want a summary statement ending with a score then?
I suppose that is easy enough.
I was assuming you meant more of an analysis of why each category earned a specific score, and me being quite a wordy fellow would take quite a bit of room to exhaustively explain each score.
Summary statement would be accurate I suppose. Some reviews tend to come off more as negative than positive yet ends with a relatively positive score, sometimes it's the opposite . Just leaving it at that is begging for the kind of reactions we often see, especially on this site. Justifying, or explaining the score briefly usually reduce such reaction or at least tone it down while members find something else to complain about :P
screw the 10 point system just go with letter grades, i think people can understand that easier.
kinda wish there weren't scores for games, just give a review and let people decide on their own from the review. i dunno if a site could though, since i'm assuming game companies want to see nice little scores on sites..
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
"Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and MMORPGs reviews are just that - their opinion".
True. Yet there is a difference. You expect more from professionals. There is a line between "my own private opionion" and "my professional opinion". When MMORPG staff score a game high because its "fun despite the obvious faults" they have become lazy and unprofessional. Its simply that persons private score. The trouble is it is labed the official review of MMORPG.COM.
Instead they should ask themselves why they are so afraid to utilize more of the scoring scale. Can games with a score of 6 or 7 be fun despite its faults? Does it really need to be near 9 to convey that this game is fun and you should try it?
Does SWTOR really deserve a 9? (it got 8,7). Not a chance if you ask me. Its so obvious that there is reason to question the motives of this site. Or maybe method?
Do they actually talk together when reviewing, or is it all left in the hands of one person? Are they all so in tune with what is expected of them when reviewing (what to subtracts points for, what is the ideal game for 9, what to look for etc)? The way Bill have talked about how reviewing is done at mmorpg.com it doesnt seem so.
In that case maybe they have too many loose cannons on deck, and they need to come together more and talk things through so they end up with a somewhat similar understanding of their own score system and what constitutes a good practice.
Thank you for addressing probably the biggest problem of review websites... that in the end they are too much about a numeric score and people are no longer reading why a game is scored. A review is an advisement on whether or not to play this game. As an author of a review you should be able to give a game an 8 and still tell them what you hate about it.
My only other concern might be that MMORPG has fallen into "The IGN ideal." There is a tendency at IGN (and other gaming websites) to give games scores that they obviously do not deserve. This pressure comes from popularity of games. Modern Warfare 3 for example received an almost perfect score.
MW3 has dated graphics (the same engine as MW1). The game has the same gameplay as every other MW3 game. The game has no gamepad support for PC (ITS A SHOOTER). The game has a lackluster, boring, campaign... and yet it gets hyper recommendation because MW has so many people playing it.
What this is is, intellectual dishonesty. It is knowing full well that a game isn't very good and yet recommending everyone get it. The people at Gamespot always make fun of how awful they are at rating things on their Podcast. They are at least aware that they have a problem. They are unfortuantely unlike you just unwilling to fix it.
Beautifully stated. This is the crux of the problem. By saying an 8 is a B-, they're effectively saying anything below, what, a 5? is all the same. They say they're scoring on a scale of 0-10 but only rating on a scale of 6-10 which means by default they are inflating all scores and confusing their readers.
Almost all reviewers use the scoring system like that.
They rarely use 1-6.
a 6 game is crap.
7 is still crap but might appeal to fans
8 is average
9 is good
Basically any game lower then an 8 is not worth money or time.
And the difference between a 96 and 98 score game can be huge. They have to cram all good games between 9 and 10.
For instance GTA4 got a 96 average I believe. What if GTA4 was released with two times as much cars, a better story, better car handling (and camera) better social system and more mini games?
They can't go higher then 99 but all these extra features are worth a lot more then only 3 points.
i used to write reviews. not for mmos, but for movies. it was a bit of a hobby and a bit of a chore. at first, it was quite cool. you'd get free movies in your chosen genre and that's cool, right?
but then you want to spend friday night doing something else, but you have to do this darned review.
*sigh*
in the end, i burned out on movies and moved to books. a few years later and i've slowed down on those, too.
the thing is, it's not as easy as it seems. you want to do a good job and you want to be fair, and you want to be balanced. you don't want to go "awe-sum!" to everything, yet a part of you doesn't want to offend the really nice guy who gave you something for free. it's a tough walk, and anyone who says it isn't hasn't really done enough reviews to fully immerse themselves in the review-making process on a professional basis. i'm not saying it can't be fun, but it can sometimes feel a bit thankless. especially when those who disagree with your "score" seem to have the loudest voices in the room.
imagine you do a job because you genuinely love it. imagine having a peanut gallery at your throat all the time, pouncing on your every word. accusing you of selling out, being a noob, or whatever the latest meme is. imagine getting shot in the knee every two seconds.
the thing is, when you write a review, you don't sit there consciously thinking about every other game (or, in my case, book or movie) you've played (watched/read). not unless the game itself is so derivitive that you can't help it. you judge it by its own merits. its own standards. and so the final score you give it independent of the scores given for other games. plus, i may not have given the score for that other game, because that other game wasn't my review. all i'm saying is what i think of this game right here and right now to the best of my ability.
when i give something a "7", i am giving it a "7" because that's what i think it is. i'm not giving it a "7" on the condition that it's not quite as good as diablo (the first), which gave me chills when i first played it. i mean, i'd have to give a lot of modern games a 459 out of 10 in comparison to games i may have reviewed 20 years ago int he graphics department. sure, we loved quake when it first came out. it took our breath away. but have you tried playing it today on your uber-sexy rig with that massive monitor you've got these days? it'll make you wince. sure, it'll keep the nostalgia going, but be honest - your benchmark has risen by about a thousand per cent.
when you see a "7", i'd like you to all think about the way you rate the attractiveness of a member of the sex of your choosing. do you honestly sit there and say, "aww, she/he's pretty hot, but nothing at all like that (insert sexist tag here) i saw that time in seventh grade for, like, two seconds and who i can't really remember now, but at the time really made my (insert appropriate gender function here)." do you? really?
if you do, you are abnormal and should seek therapy, because i have a hard time remembering my favourite movie lines, let alone every girl i ever rated as a "10" in my life, so i'm darn sure i couldn't give myself a benchmark for that.
i know i've kind of gone off on a tangent there, but this is a gaming site, so it was only fair that i remind you all about the one thing i think is important.
I have to honest when I say that Mr. Murphy's response appears contradictory. I am not trying to attack Mr. Murphy, but if we are not to pay attention to the scores then why have them to begin with? Why not just review the game from your point of view. Number systems are so incredibly subjective that you have to trust the review that their context for an 8 is the same as your context for an 8. With TOR's review I felt a huge disconnect to be honest. I simply did not feel in sync with the reviewers 8.7 (flawed, but closer to perfect). I simply felt BW was extraordinarly lazy in their work with TOR. From I have seen and experienced from writing, to the textures, to fixing bugs, customer service, the untested endgame, the heavily mirrored classes, the unoriginal abilities, the terrible Revan/Exile characterizations, and the awful game engine that TOR is not a 8.7. Considering the time and the money BW had, I just simply do not find it acceptable. No game is perfect, but TOR's imperfections are beyond just new game jitters, the HeroEngine was an atrocious choice.
Getting back to the point, readers often obssess themselves with number to the point that it becomes dentrimental to the review in my opinion. It is not just MMORPG, I just feel like the number systems in general, while easy forr casual readers, are heavily flawed. I guess my purpose is writing this it to question whether there is a better alternative to a number system. Personally, I think words alone are enough, but there are a plurality of views on the matter.
It would be interesting to hear from MMORPG.COM how they actually use the scoring system. How does the review process work internally? Do you hand the job over to a single guy or woman, and let them do the process from A to Z, or is there some group discussion as well? If the process is almost entirely done by one person, do you all have a concensus about what the rules for rating is? Do you all subtract points for the same faults?
Would the score be mostly the same if you had your staff rate a game in turn?
If the honest answer to that question is "no", then I suppose you have a problem. I dont belive its GOT TO BE random. Yes, we are all individuals, and many times we value things differently. Still, is there a difference between professionals and personal opinion? I do belive there is.
How about we just have all the MMORPG forum hawks provide their input on every aspect of the game with their own scores complete with their opinion and just trivialize an MMORPG writers job to organizing everyone else opinions without being able to include their own. Then post his compilation of findings and average of scores complete with ONLY statements and words used only by communities, none from the writer. Then when we realize how split everyone is in terms of opinion on gameplay, sound/music, video, story what have you and realize that a 5 out of 10 on everything will be the only thing allowed to keep everyone happy, maybe these writers can go back to their job without being criticized over the political-correctness of subjective measures such as Numbered Scores or written Goods, Excellents, Perfects, Terribly Bad grades.
This is absolute nonsense and I wonder if anyone else is here on the same page. I don't believe an MMORPG writer even should have to take a weekly column to even address this due to recent unnamed MMO with an immense amount of haters thats not named WoW. But hey, an MMORPG writer went out of his way to explain some things to everyone else and he still gets burned immensely by probably the same haters. Get over it, this is a video game review, you know video games...meant for fun? Not a presidential campaign which ironically is also occurring around the same time.
Maybe its the season for everyone to be have ridiculous expectations over trivial matters after all -_-
I give the article a 2/10 cus while Murphy thinks he is so elite at reviews he's just a noob, the biggest noob on this site rly. Murphy should L2R before he keeps shooing his mouth off about how awesoe he is and giving himself 7/10 (LMAO!)
Sorry, Bill. You'll always be fighting against the 'No one is allowed to have an opinion unless it matches mine' mentality in this community. People are going to find fault with your numbers, with your words, and will invent fantasies in their heads of seedy backroom deals with the publishers encouraging you to think one way or the other.
LOL! You made me spew my Kix cereal when I read your post. Thanks for the great laugh and the spot on remarks about the seedy backroom deals.
It really wasn't THAT funny... and 'spew'? Really
I probably shouln't bother at this point bother to mention how the quoted text of what you you laugh so hard is pretty derogatory to your readers, and not just the ones that might see things in the way described.
You basically just laughed at an indiscriminate piss take of your users. Y'know, the people that provide traffic that allows you to sell space and get paid.
Comments
Sorry, but the highlighted line is just not true. The reviews do contain some cons, but those are mostly light in weight and often give the impression that they are sort of placeholders just to have some cons at all.
The reviews barely ever touch the real problems of a game, those one can read about in the forums. It's just like all interviews with your industrie friends never contain the burning questions nor does your coverage ever display the many live problems a game has (like your at times daily Rift coverage never did).
Recent example the SWTOR review...who can deny that the game lacks numerous, a decade old basic MMORPG features, has bugs galore and suffers on conceptional design errors. Reviewed as an MMORPG, the list of cons could easily contain like 20 points.
But nevermind, we've got it by now. You try to do the split between those who pay you to write and those who just come to read.
If the scores dont matter, don't give any.
Do the writeup with full explanations of the testers feelings about features and let the readers decide. This site is about the written word and if gamers need a tl:dr on a review of a game they may actually have an interest in... maybe they should be watching videos on youtube.
Add in a precis about the reviewers typical gamestyle so the reader knows where the reviewer is coming from.
We don't need to be spoonfed, we're all past babyhood and have learned how to read.
Though sometimes.... I have to wonder.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Are you insinuating that publishers pay off reviewers? As much as I would have loved to get a giant stipend from Riot for my review I can say that your implication is 100% verifiably not true.
Also if the pros and cons list had 40 total points then a) no one would read the actual review and b) the review format would become unwieldy and messy. If you want detailed pros and cons read the review in its entirety. The small list is supposed to be a brief snapshot of some of the most prevalent problems/successes of the game, not an end-all-be-all judgement on the entire product and experience.
Heh, I remember being up at five in the morning after staying up all night tweaking my LoL review. I knew putting that ten in Innovation could lead to being condemned in the comments (and that did happen to a point) but I'll be damned if I could dissuade myself from doing so.
Another reason I think Bill has a great point here is that sometimes the numbers are a bit misleading. More than once I've gotten to the end of a review and averaged out the scores only to be faced with an overall score that I'm surprised at. As tempting as it is to alter some category grades to bump the total score up or down I always left them as is as my category scores were my god's honest opinions. That happened with the LoL review.
Also I like to make a point of giving more diverse scores in my reviews. At the end of the day seeing a bunch of sevens and eights aren't very informative, which is why I prefer maning up so to say and doling out sixes and fives and even tens if I feel that is the case.
Maybe one day we can do away with numbers though, that would be grand! :]
If you are going to shell out a fair wad of cash to buy a game that you dont even read a review of, just look at the scores, send me some will you!
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Geezus christ people, all reviews no matter which set of writers you're reading from is all indicitative of THEIR own experiences, perspectives, bias etc. It is there to help others, especially less knowledgable players regarding a specific field, provide some knowledge and background about things they aren't familiar with. No matter who writes them they are all going to be opinions, the people here aren't trying to run for President of Online Virtual Gaming Reality or anything so he's not here to represent the masses and ensure the laws/bills are written properly to represent the wants and desires of everyone around the world.
If you don't respect the opinion of the writers or have formed you're own a long time ago, no one is making you listen or follow it! If you think you're opinion so great, go get a job and become a writer so the world can hear your 2 cents that they most likely don't care about not nearly to the extent as others do at websites like these.
If not, then stfu and take it for what it is. I appreciate the time and effort writers anywhere put into sharing their experiences and providing their opinions but in the end its merely their opinion. They aren't part of the MMORPG Standardized Scores for the World to Follow or Else, geezus man. When we are arguing over things like an "Excellent" because it reflects a high score OPINION of a writer and that becoming misleading, I think you as a gamer have turned a corner.
I can imagine many of you sitting at your desk with your monocle and top hat and puffy red sweaty cheeks typing away at how the writers are wrong again! When has game reviews become so political? Absolutely ridiculous.
In regards to utilizing numbers and scales as a way to express an opinion is that everyone takes these numbers and scale it differently to their own opinions. I highly doubt you can take 2 people, look at a set of scores, give them a scale and make them feel the same about them. A 5 to someone might mean neither good or bad, but to someone else it could just mean bad. A 10 might mean absolute perfection and near impossible to acquire to one person, but that could merely just mean that game was great (not necessarily perfect) to another.
Given this, I would support the notion to not utilize these numbers at all and just give like a word, "Terrible or Bad" or "Great or One of the Best" or "Mediocre, Fun but Needs Improvement" etc. This probably communicates more, keeps everyone more on the same page without the confusion of the numbers, which can mean different things to different people.
There is a clear discrepancy between the scores given and the actual content of the reviews on this site. But I don't think the issue is the discrepancy itself, but the fact that we don't really know what those "scores" stands for. If each writer were to write the very same exact review, word for word, they would still score the game differently, and I think that's where members are confused.
I believe MMORPG.com should have a single grading system and have all the writers follow this same scale. Also explaining in detail the grading system and what each value stands for would be a good thing to do as well, so that everyone can be on the same "level" as far as reading and understanding. In addition, I believe Writers should also explain their scores, because as you said, a game can have many flaws yet be scored higher because it's a very enjoyable game. If writers were to justify their scores, I believe it would be a lot easier for the readers to understand from the perspective of the writer.
I's also very difficult for me to read that scores don't really matter, yet when we look at the SWTOR Roundtable review (for example), the first thing you will read is this : "BILL MURPHY - 9/10". Or when you look at reviews from the review page of this website, "FINAL SCORE - X.X" with a relatively large police. These are the first thing that members will notice. If scores really don't matter as much as the reviews themselves, perhaps re-thinking the placement of those scores may be a wise thing.
The fact is that, scores do matters. Not everyone reads the entire review (as much as I believe that they should), so the scoring system is very important. It also reflects greatly in websites such as Metacritics. I think it was 2 years ago when one of the writers here (I believe it was Jon Wood?) wrote an article about reading comprehension if I remember correctly, and near the end of the article he asked members who commented to write something and include "Jon Wood" in the comment. Few did.
TL;DR Make an article about the grading score itself explaining each score in detail. Have writers follow this grading score more closely. Writers should explain the score they give.
We already have a criteria for reviews, and if we took all our time explaining our score there would be a dearth of writing about the actual game.
There are two sides to the coin unfortunately.
Few lines are required to justify the score. For example, many of the scores/reviews on Skyrim can be summed up to this "While many bugs, horrible UI and sometime game breaking bugs were found, the whole experience is so captivating that I simply can't stop playing it. For that I give it an 9/10, fix the bugs and it's a 10/10. I''m having so much fun!". On the other hand, the PS3 review for this would be "While the game has been very fun to play, the countless issues on the PS3 have made this game practically unplayable. For that I give it a 5/10. Fix the game ASAP".
It's simply intended to make the bridge between the review (which can either have many very positive critique, or negative, or both) and the score so that readers can understand the discrepancy between them without some players thinking like "they are giving high scores because they get paid", or low scores because "they're just a bunch of haters who know nothing about games". It's simply a bridge that gives a short insight that may or may not have been noticeable throughout the review.
So basically you want a summary statement ending with a score then?
I suppose that is easy enough.
I was assuming you meant more of an analysis of why each category earned a specific score, and me being quite a wordy fellow would take quite a bit of room to exhaustively explain each score.
Summary statement would be accurate I suppose. Some reviews tend to come off more as negative than positive yet ends with a relatively positive score, sometimes it's the opposite . Just leaving it at that is begging for the kind of reactions we often see, especially on this site. Justifying, or explaining the score briefly usually reduce such reaction or at least tone it down while members find something else to complain about :P
screw the 10 point system just go with letter grades, i think people can understand that easier.
kinda wish there weren't scores for games, just give a review and let people decide on their own from the review. i dunno if a site could though, since i'm assuming game companies want to see nice little scores on sites..
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
"Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and MMORPGs reviews are just that - their opinion".
True. Yet there is a difference. You expect more from professionals. There is a line between "my own private opionion" and "my professional opinion". When MMORPG staff score a game high because its "fun despite the obvious faults" they have become lazy and unprofessional. Its simply that persons private score. The trouble is it is labed the official review of MMORPG.COM.
Instead they should ask themselves why they are so afraid to utilize more of the scoring scale. Can games with a score of 6 or 7 be fun despite its faults? Does it really need to be near 9 to convey that this game is fun and you should try it?
Does SWTOR really deserve a 9? (it got 8,7). Not a chance if you ask me. Its so obvious that there is reason to question the motives of this site. Or maybe method?
Do they actually talk together when reviewing, or is it all left in the hands of one person? Are they all so in tune with what is expected of them when reviewing (what to subtracts points for, what is the ideal game for 9, what to look for etc)? The way Bill have talked about how reviewing is done at mmorpg.com it doesnt seem so.
In that case maybe they have too many loose cannons on deck, and they need to come together more and talk things through so they end up with a somewhat similar understanding of their own score system and what constitutes a good practice.
Dear Bill Murphey,
Thank you for addressing probably the biggest problem of review websites... that in the end they are too much about a numeric score and people are no longer reading why a game is scored. A review is an advisement on whether or not to play this game. As an author of a review you should be able to give a game an 8 and still tell them what you hate about it.
My only other concern might be that MMORPG has fallen into "The IGN ideal." There is a tendency at IGN (and other gaming websites) to give games scores that they obviously do not deserve. This pressure comes from popularity of games. Modern Warfare 3 for example received an almost perfect score.
MW3 has dated graphics (the same engine as MW1). The game has the same gameplay as every other MW3 game. The game has no gamepad support for PC (ITS A SHOOTER). The game has a lackluster, boring, campaign... and yet it gets hyper recommendation because MW has so many people playing it.
What this is is, intellectual dishonesty. It is knowing full well that a game isn't very good and yet recommending everyone get it. The people at Gamespot always make fun of how awful they are at rating things on their Podcast. They are at least aware that they have a problem. They are unfortuantely unlike you just unwilling to fix it.
Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker
Almost all reviewers use the scoring system like that.
They rarely use 1-6.
a 6 game is crap.
7 is still crap but might appeal to fans
8 is average
9 is good
Basically any game lower then an 8 is not worth money or time.
And the difference between a 96 and 98 score game can be huge. They have to cram all good games between 9 and 10.
For instance GTA4 got a 96 average I believe. What if GTA4 was released with two times as much cars, a better story, better car handling (and camera) better social system and more mini games?
They can't go higher then 99 but all these extra features are worth a lot more then only 3 points.
i used to write reviews. not for mmos, but for movies. it was a bit of a hobby and a bit of a chore. at first, it was quite cool. you'd get free movies in your chosen genre and that's cool, right?
but then you want to spend friday night doing something else, but you have to do this darned review.
*sigh*
in the end, i burned out on movies and moved to books. a few years later and i've slowed down on those, too.
the thing is, it's not as easy as it seems. you want to do a good job and you want to be fair, and you want to be balanced. you don't want to go "awe-sum!" to everything, yet a part of you doesn't want to offend the really nice guy who gave you something for free. it's a tough walk, and anyone who says it isn't hasn't really done enough reviews to fully immerse themselves in the review-making process on a professional basis. i'm not saying it can't be fun, but it can sometimes feel a bit thankless. especially when those who disagree with your "score" seem to have the loudest voices in the room.
imagine you do a job because you genuinely love it. imagine having a peanut gallery at your throat all the time, pouncing on your every word. accusing you of selling out, being a noob, or whatever the latest meme is. imagine getting shot in the knee every two seconds.
the thing is, when you write a review, you don't sit there consciously thinking about every other game (or, in my case, book or movie) you've played (watched/read). not unless the game itself is so derivitive that you can't help it. you judge it by its own merits. its own standards. and so the final score you give it independent of the scores given for other games. plus, i may not have given the score for that other game, because that other game wasn't my review. all i'm saying is what i think of this game right here and right now to the best of my ability.
when i give something a "7", i am giving it a "7" because that's what i think it is. i'm not giving it a "7" on the condition that it's not quite as good as diablo (the first), which gave me chills when i first played it. i mean, i'd have to give a lot of modern games a 459 out of 10 in comparison to games i may have reviewed 20 years ago int he graphics department. sure, we loved quake when it first came out. it took our breath away. but have you tried playing it today on your uber-sexy rig with that massive monitor you've got these days? it'll make you wince. sure, it'll keep the nostalgia going, but be honest - your benchmark has risen by about a thousand per cent.
when you see a "7", i'd like you to all think about the way you rate the attractiveness of a member of the sex of your choosing. do you honestly sit there and say, "aww, she/he's pretty hot, but nothing at all like that (insert sexist tag here) i saw that time in seventh grade for, like, two seconds and who i can't really remember now, but at the time really made my (insert appropriate gender function here)." do you? really?
if you do, you are abnormal and should seek therapy, because i have a hard time remembering my favourite movie lines, let alone every girl i ever rated as a "10" in my life, so i'm darn sure i couldn't give myself a benchmark for that.
i know i've kind of gone off on a tangent there, but this is a gaming site, so it was only fair that i remind you all about the one thing i think is important.
boobs.
i mean, umm, recognising an opinion over a fact.
I have to honest when I say that Mr. Murphy's response appears contradictory. I am not trying to attack Mr. Murphy, but if we are not to pay attention to the scores then why have them to begin with? Why not just review the game from your point of view. Number systems are so incredibly subjective that you have to trust the review that their context for an 8 is the same as your context for an 8. With TOR's review I felt a huge disconnect to be honest. I simply did not feel in sync with the reviewers 8.7 (flawed, but closer to perfect). I simply felt BW was extraordinarly lazy in their work with TOR. From I have seen and experienced from writing, to the textures, to fixing bugs, customer service, the untested endgame, the heavily mirrored classes, the unoriginal abilities, the terrible Revan/Exile characterizations, and the awful game engine that TOR is not a 8.7. Considering the time and the money BW had, I just simply do not find it acceptable. No game is perfect, but TOR's imperfections are beyond just new game jitters, the HeroEngine was an atrocious choice.
Getting back to the point, readers often obssess themselves with number to the point that it becomes dentrimental to the review in my opinion. It is not just MMORPG, I just feel like the number systems in general, while easy forr casual readers, are heavily flawed. I guess my purpose is writing this it to question whether there is a better alternative to a number system. Personally, I think words alone are enough, but there are a plurality of views on the matter.
It would be interesting to hear from MMORPG.COM how they actually use the scoring system. How does the review process work internally? Do you hand the job over to a single guy or woman, and let them do the process from A to Z, or is there some group discussion as well? If the process is almost entirely done by one person, do you all have a concensus about what the rules for rating is? Do you all subtract points for the same faults?
Would the score be mostly the same if you had your staff rate a game in turn?
If the honest answer to that question is "no", then I suppose you have a problem. I dont belive its GOT TO BE random. Yes, we are all individuals, and many times we value things differently. Still, is there a difference between professionals and personal opinion? I do belive there is.
How about we just have all the MMORPG forum hawks provide their input on every aspect of the game with their own scores complete with their opinion and just trivialize an MMORPG writers job to organizing everyone else opinions without being able to include their own. Then post his compilation of findings and average of scores complete with ONLY statements and words used only by communities, none from the writer. Then when we realize how split everyone is in terms of opinion on gameplay, sound/music, video, story what have you and realize that a 5 out of 10 on everything will be the only thing allowed to keep everyone happy, maybe these writers can go back to their job without being criticized over the political-correctness of subjective measures such as Numbered Scores or written Goods, Excellents, Perfects, Terribly Bad grades.
This is absolute nonsense and I wonder if anyone else is here on the same page. I don't believe an MMORPG writer even should have to take a weekly column to even address this due to recent unnamed MMO with an immense amount of haters thats not named WoW. But hey, an MMORPG writer went out of his way to explain some things to everyone else and he still gets burned immensely by probably the same haters. Get over it, this is a video game review, you know video games...meant for fun? Not a presidential campaign which ironically is also occurring around the same time.
Maybe its the season for everyone to be have ridiculous expectations over trivial matters after all -_-
I give the article a 2/10 cus while Murphy thinks he is so elite at reviews he's just a noob, the biggest noob on this site rly. Murphy should L2R before he keeps shooing his mouth off about how awesoe he is and giving himself 7/10 (LMAO!)
It really wasn't THAT funny... and 'spew'? Really
I probably shouln't bother at this point bother to mention how the quoted text of what you you laugh so hard is pretty derogatory to your readers, and not just the ones that might see things in the way described.
You basically just laughed at an indiscriminate piss take of your users. Y'know, the people that provide traffic that allows you to sell space and get paid.
To Bill's point, I would say... then maybe don't use scores?
Hmm yes.
"Ignore the scores," then why use them at all?
Very odd article.