The Magic Gone? Or Just Genre Too Popular

WellzyC · January 2012

Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.

Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that what I fear isn’t true.

I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.

Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.

Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.

When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid

Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.

Here’s to 2012... Hope it gets better!

SEANMCAD · January 2012

I think I read that the average age of an MMO player is 35ish. Why they continue to make games designed for 10 year olds is beyond me, execpt that maybe the focus is going to the east (asia) where there is a ton of people with cash and young

77lolmac77 · January 2012

same thing that happened to rap music:

Too much money got involved and instead of the focus being on the game it got focused on profits.

You can draw this comparison to a lot of things: Pro Sports, TV shows, POLITICS (yeah, thats a bold, italic, and underscore), Education system, Law enforcement (oh a $200 fine for not paying you guys $50 to reaffirm that I own this car thank you very much officer), certain tech products, etc

Nerfmeh · January 2012

Same..no real MMO in 2 years or so ... only generic crap that interests u in 2 weeks max. Hope this year is a saviour for the genre , personally getting hopes up for GW2.

Zekiah · January 2012

MMO companies are all about the lowest common denominator to the largest cash flow with minimal effort.

Don't expect to see that magic back anytime soon.

maplestone · January 2012

I fear you are displaying all the symptoms of growing up.

Puremallace · January 2012

We are living in the age of mediocirty where only mmo's based on popular IP's even stand a chance of winning and if not you are forced into the f2p model.

This genre is completely dead and the players are to blame. Only thing keeping me here right now is Rift. If that does eventually go down due to these f2p derps ruining the game, then I am done for good.

Fadedbomb · January 2012

Originally posted by WellzyC

Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.

Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that what I fear isn’t true.

I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.

Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.

Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.

When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid

Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.

Here’s to 2012... Hope it gets better!

Greed

The moment publishers realize that building a world around MONEY, rather than around QUALITY, is a failing prospect is the moment the MMO genre returns to a place of glory. Until that time, Greed will continue to destroy many publisher names until they are no longer operating. SOE itself has been FORCED to return to its roots (Planetside & EQ) in order to keep itself from ruin. If they ruin those two franchises their company is a bust.

SuprGamerX · January 2012

Heh , the magic our favorite MMO's once had isn't quite gone , just in a big slumber at the moment waitting on the right Devs to actually grab it by the horns and actually create something worth investing time and effort into it.

The kind of MMO where you can grab a bunch of buddies and go on a bot killing spree with no remorce what so ever.

The Kind of MMO where you grab your same buddies and camp around the same cave for hours while having a blast blowing some monsters head off.

GW2 , the more I look and read into what will be the game , the more it scares me. I wasn't really a fan of fully instanced games and this is where Gw2 is heading , I will try it for sure , but for how long , depends on how much content over graphics they've put into it.

SWtor on the other hand , I've played for a few days along with some friends , and we just can't get the fact out of our minds that beside the blasters and light sabers and the whole jedi/sith mumbo jumbo that it's just a empty shell with no new "concept" to show over any other MMO previously released. Which btw I find hard to believe this game has received a Goty award. We'll see how well the servers will be populated by June/July. Remember ROSE online anyone when once released? Everyone was freaking out on how much that game will kick ass , the first week the beginners area was flooding with people , took hours to complete the first quest of the game! A few months later , my PC was making more noise with it's fans then the actual game due to empty servers.

MMO's never lost their magic , it's the people that see things and invent stuff to over hype a game that isn't and wasn't meant to be hyped in the first place. FF14 anyone ? lawls , pathetic.

tank017 · January 2012

I think its because the genre has become so stagnant(due to WoWs success),that every big MMO that has come out is d

Lawlmonster · January 2012

The magic never left, people just forgot how to wield it. The people who created the genre didn't get into making these games for the money, they got into making these games because they were fans of MUD's, or pen and paper, which eventually lead them to a desire for having a graphical interface for these games. At the beginning, which occurs with most mediums, it was pure passion.

Now? We have games designed by committee, DLC hubs that are little more than the skeleton of what was once a full content title, carbon copy game design used throughout multiple genre's because it's more efficient, and requires less creativity. Money is what changed everything, and it fucks up just about every other artistic avenue you can think of. Take television, as an example. It's not to say that well made or artistic broadcasting never gets made anymore, but the hurdles to jump in order to defeat efficiency for creativity is a difficult obstacle to surpass when so many of the people making decisions for these companies are bottom lining profiteers. So what do we get? Reality TV, so many variations on game shows I'm astonished anyone can tell the difference between them.

And yes, popularity is part of the problem. Many people think that the whole idea of "dumbing down content" is absurd, but the fact of the matter is that people in large groups are moronic, though individually are capable of amazing brilliance. When making something for a mass of inviduals, a product you want to appease to as many people as humanly possible, you cater for the lowest common denominator. It's a simple truth that we can't deny anymore.

orsonstfu · January 2012

Originally posted by Lawlmonster
The magic never left, people just forgot how to wield it. The people who created the genre didn't get into making these games for the money, they got into making these games because they were fans of MUD's, or pen and paper, which eventually lead them to a desire for having a graphical interface for these games. At the beginning, which occurs with most mediums, it was pure passion.

Now? We have games designed by comittee, DLC hubs that are little more than the skeleton of what was once a full content title, carbon copy game design used throughout multiple genre's because it's more efficient, and requires less creativity. Money is what changed everything, and it fucks up just about every other artistic avenue you can think of. Take television, as an example. It's not to say that well made or artistic broadcasting never gets made anymore, but the hurdles to jump in order to surpass efficiency for creativity is a difficult obstacle to surpass when so many of the people making decisions for these companies are bottom lining profiteers. So what do we get? Reality TV, so many variations on game shows I'm astonished anyone can tell the difference between them.

And yes, popularity is part of the problem. Many people think that the whole idea of "dumbing down content" is absurd, but the fact of the matter is that people in large groups are moronic, though individually are capable of amazing brilliance. When making something for a mass of inviduals, a product you want to appease to as many people as humanly possible, you cater for the lowest common denominator. It's a simple truth that we can't deny anymore.

Sums it up quite nicely - I'd also like to add that modern developers tend to cater to only one group of people, instead of understanding that to have a full blow medieval world that feels alive you need ALL groups of people to be represented in your game.

Crafting, Roleplay, PvP, PvE, Exploration, Social, all these types of players are EQUALLY important.

Sovrath · January 2012

genre is popular. Happens with everything that becomes popular.

Crunchy221 · January 2012

In order to continually appeal to more players they need to remove a lot of unique mechanics and systems that made those older games great.

This isnt a genere that is appealing to a niche crowd of RPG players anymore, and the RPG in mmorpg is slowly leaving the games to make way for generes that appeal to more people.

RPG players liked investing a lot of time to figure stuff out, build their characters, and enjoyed the journey. Thats what RPG's were about. Getting into the character you were playing, getting involved in the world and story, making that character as you saw fit ect. Achieving a fully developed character (endgame i guess) was an achievement not every player could do. It meant something. Reaching that height meant you had extensive knwledge of the game and the world. In fact endgame use to be nothing much more than hanging out on your character, socializing, getting pm's from people passing you by marveling at you and helping new players out.

Now its about stomping people below you laughing at them and ignoring everyone who isnt in your direct circle of friends.

Newer games are about action action action. How can we get the most amount of people right to the "good part" as fast as possible? Everyone must reach endgame before they get bored in the newer games, so reaching endgame isnt a big deal and doesnt feel special. On top of that they make the trip the endgame boring, its something people try to avoid and little time is spent on the journey. Theres no learning, you go to the website that tells you what class is best what rotation what gear where to get the gear ect. Straying from what is written as the best is a way to get shunned as an idiot.

So yeah...the magic is gone. There cant be magic like the older games because..well newer games make more money with bigger crowds and its about money not passion or making a quality game that appeals to RPG player who want to play online with eachother. People want to play a game where theres 50 full servers full of people they will never interact with, to them that means the game is the best.

Quizzical · January 2012

What a lot of people really want is for another MMORPG to be the first one they've played, or at least one of the first few. That is often what makes them remembered so fondly, more so than any particular game mechanics.

acidblood · January 2012

While I don't believe the magic is gone completely, it will certainly take more than a standard MMO to bring it back for no other reason than we all (those burnt on recent MMOs) know how an MMO 'works'.

Think back your first MMO, be it EQ, WoW, Rift or anything inbetween... it was something new, it was exciting, you didn't know the rules so you spent time exploring them and testing them, you went off the beaten path hoping to find some rare treasure, you explored that cave for no other reason than it was there, and you had fun doing it, effeciency be damed. Now think of pretty much any MMO you played after that (especially recent ones), you know the rules, you know to talk to they guy with the ! to get the quest, you know that quest gives you the exp and loot you need to advance as quickly as possible, and you know there is no point smelling the roses as anything you find / do at low level is going to be replaced or can be soloed later, and you know that the 'real fun' starts once you hit the level cap.

Granted it doesn't help that modern MMOs (i.e. Rift) are designed with these mechanics in mind. Camparing Rift to Vanilla WoW for example, you pretty much can't explore, as there just isn't anything there, even leveling an alt your stuck on the same path, where as at least in VWoW there where enough zones that you could pick and choose; not all of them as fleshed out as Rifts' zones, but that wasn't nessecarilly a bad thing etiher, as it gave you a sense of the path less taken. The 'modern' internet a whole doesn't help either, with item databases and such telling you where all the best loot is, what build you should be using, etc. Even less directly related 'modern' web sites hurt MMOs; I mean why login to an MMO to be social when you can just fire up facebook, especially when getting a group in an MMO is as simple as clicking a button.

Can all the problems be fixed, can the magic be brought back? Probably, at least for the most part. Will it happen any time soon? No idea. Games like Guild Wars 2, The Secret World and even Wildstar look promissing, but then so did Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Rift.

Rasputin · January 2012

Originally posted by Zekiah
MMO companies are all about the lowest common denominator to the largest cash flow with minimal effort.

Don't expect to see that magic back anytime soon.

You just described capitalism. And that is the root of the problem.

Jayremy · January 2012

I call if lack of game developer creativity. Making a competitive game of today's age now requires good money since WoW. Usually to get that type of money you need funds, investments, all the sorts typical to that of um... a publisher. Look at SWTOR, EA put their dollar on that because its something done over that works, these businessmen only like to do what works. They couldn't care less for game quality, as many game devs and programmers of today think the field of MMOs now are just cash grabs, to reach early retirement, there is no passion to it anymore.

Same happened to Blizzard, they saw all the cash, their got all star-eyed and that passion they once had when it was new, was gone. I mean stuff like "hey you found a really in depth exploit, you're hired as a QA tester" or " hey your posts on the forums were about warrior mechanics were great and accurate, you're a designer now", this stuff did happen when the company really cared and babied their product.

People aren't willing to take the risks, many just lack creativity too, not all people with resumes make the best game designers imo, its normal people with BIG passions and understanding for making a great game, no major degree or 7+ years in the industry needed. A lot of devs you see just hop company to company, like seeing the same hollywood actors in many movies, these people work on many titles due to a resume, so you get the works coming from the same minds. We need people to be innovative and push boundaries and are not too scared to introduce something new to gamers as well as the creativity to dream up the worlds, the gameplay, the tech and mechanics.

I miss games like Asheron's Call, I could use less of the griefing (or use more of anti-griefing measures) into today's games and more convenience with QoL improvements, but I miss the old school worlds. I miss the sand box worlds, and gameplay that isn't a copy paste feature of EQ and since (which is also WoW). My interest isn't gone because I am here hounding forums following the latest action RPGs and mainly MMOs, never being satisfied. We really haven't had good games out, yes we are burnt out a bit, but that is because existing games either have tech and designed in a way that is too old, like Asheron's Call or gameplay itself hasn't evolved in any dynamic way in years (like WoW).

Personally I really do feel like I could design better games than today's releases, I have even took hours of my time on the side writing premises for story and gameplay designs and multiple different ideas as placeholders for future work. I pretty much hit the ceiling like 2 years ago and wanting to design my own games due to my lack of being impressed from games of today, mainly int he MMO genre. If you ask me anyways I feel MOs and MMOs are the future of biggest success games.

DerWotan · January 2012

The magic is gone and personally I hate it the genre is quickly becoming something it was never designed to be "mainstream" .

I want a game with deep character development, seamless world, dangerous and long travels and focus on grouping so flamers and people with bad behaviour won't have a place if they don't adjust.

SpottyGekko · January 2012

Originally posted by Quizzical
What a lot of people really want is for another MMORPG to be the first one they've played, or at least one of the first few. That is often what makes them remembered so fondly, more so than any particular game mechanics.

I see this comment often on these boards, and it is complete nonsense.

For that theory to be true, it would also have to apply to single-player games. I fondly remember games like Ultima, System Shock, Wing Commander, Freelancer and Civilization (all from ancient gaming history). At the time that they launched, I was totally blown away by their gameplay, played them to death and loved them immensely.

But that didn't mean that I couldn't equally be "blown away" by PC games that were released in later years. There have been quite a few titles since then that I have loved and enjoyed just as much as those early classics. Last year we had Deus EX and Skyrim, both excellent games that I played just as intensely as those PC games from 15+ years ago.

So why should MMO's be any different ?

truthhurts · January 2012

Originally posted by WellzyC

I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.

Its definitely the quality. The last great MMORPGs were released in late 2004, although EQ2 didnt really become great until 2006ish. Since then the best weve gotten is Rift and SWTOR, which are both steps backward from 2004 and very lacking in that ability to suck you into their world.

The magic is gone, because the developers dont know how to use it.

Cacophanist · January 2012

If you are all complaining so much about the MMOs out at present why the hell do you play games like WOW, WAR, LOTR, SWTOR, RIFT(!) ???

You all complain about ow shit modern MMOs are but the vast majority of you have never played and supported Darkfall, Mortal Online or Xsyon.

Next time some new innovative game comes out buy it to support it, don't just keep playing the same old clones in new skin time and time again. I mean do really 11 million people still play WOW? That is 11 million people that have very low tastes and are probably mentally ill. I mean you would have to be mentally ill to play WOW.

Seriously less whining and more support of the alternatives. If Mortal Online or Dakfall had some more money behind them they could be truely great games.

SpottyGekko · January 2012

Originally posted by Cacophanist
If you are all complaining so much about the MMOs out at present why the hell do you play games like WOW, WAR, LOTR, SWTOR, RIFT(!) ???

You all complain about ow shit modern MMOs are but the vast majority of you have never played and supported Darkfall, Mortal Online or Xsyon.

Next time some new innovative game comes out buy it to support it, don't just keep playing the same old clones in new skin time and time again. I mean do really 11 million people still play WOW? That is 11 million people that have very low tastes and are probably mentally ill. I mean you would have to be mentally ill to play WOW.

Seriously less whining and more support of the alternatives. If Mortal Online or Dakfall had some more money behind them they could be truely great games.

That may well be true, but they didn't and therefore they aren't.

I bought and played Darkfall, MO (2 copies) and Xsyon (2 copies), in that order. Xsyon was such an appaling mess that I actually asked for (and received) a refund on both copies of the game.

Expecting your playerbase to fund your development is NEVER going to work. Nobody is going to pay a monthly AAA-level sub for a game that is riddled with bugs and exploits, no matter how much the developers promise that it will improve "in the future". Especially not when the pace of development indicates that "in the future" is actually 1 or 2 years from now, at BEST !

Small indie teams just don't have what it takes to produce a game that launches with a decent feature set, good gameplay and relatively minor bugs. They usually lack technical expertise and game design experience, and they always lack the capacity to produce results quickly.

I have lost all hope that some unknown indie startup is going to build a really good MMO. The bar on quality and content is just way too high for them.

truthhurts · January 2012

Originally posted by Cacophanist

You all complain about ow shit modern MMOs are but the vast majority of you have never played and supported Darkfall, Mortal Online or Xsyon.

People generally do not want FFA PvP, and Xyson was a colossal pile of turds

Palladin · January 2012

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by WellzyC

Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.

Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that what I fear isn’t true.

I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.

Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.

Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.

When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid

Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.

Here’s to 2012... Hope it gets better!

Greed

The moment publishers realize that building a world around MONEY, rather than around QUALITY, is a failing prospect is the moment the MMO genre returns to a place of glory. Until that time, Greed will continue to destroy many publisher names until they are no longer operating. SOE itself has been FORCED to return to its roots (Planetside & EQ) in order to keep itself from ruin. If they ruin those two franchises their company is a bust.

i wouldn't cry over the loss.

Comaf · January 2012

Originally posted by WellzyC

Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.

Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that what I fear isn’t true.

I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.

Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.

Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.

When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid

Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.

Here’s to 2012... Hope it gets better!

Losing interest in the genre as it is today - is like saying you are losing interest in quality food because you hate McDonalds. It is NOT your fault. You are seeing the slippery slope of mediocrity at work in an industry that was once creative and expansive, immersive and brilliant (i.e., Dark Age of Camelot, EQ, AC 1 and 2)...and you are bored of it - your intellectual capacity expects more of the present state of the genre.

In time, I honestly believe, someone will create a great medieval fantasy mmorpg where unlike GW2, the classes will be different across multiple factions and pvp will have meaning in a persistant world, and unlike SW:TOR there will be a great amount of variation between factions, and thusly, pvp will not only be for something that matters (i.e., territory), it will be between forces that remind us of the great epics we all love to read:

Tolkien, Burroughs, Marting, Jordan, Williams, and so forth.

Find a good RPG like Skyrim, dig up some old RPGs. Get together with some friends and play a good pen and paper table top RPG like Dungeons and Dragons, or MERP, or Rolemaster, etc. Get a feel of where the genre started.

Eventually, the commercial cosmetic crap you see in today's mmorpgs of cash shops, cosmetic races, and mirrored classes, will move to the side for something truly great. Might be 10 years, but I do believe it will happen (i.e., keeping an eye on 38 Studios, for example, to see if they get the concept of us vs them vs them and why variation is superior to mediocrity in the games that are supposed to take us from the real world and into something epic and believable.).

/salute

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The Magic Gone? Or Just Genre Too Popular

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The Magic Gone? Or Just Genre Too Popular

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