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Hell/ Underworld as Death Penalty

Mister_ReMister_Re Detroit, MIMember Posts: 142

I just wanted to get some feedback on a concept for a death penalty I am working on for a mmo. 

In the game all those who die go to the Underworld. The Underworld itself is a world seperate from the rest of the in game world. It is a vast multi-leveled labyrinth filled with its own inhabitants, and loot. Each level has a specified starting area, and players must fight their way out while searching for the boss of the level to get a key for entry to the next upper level. The level's enemies increase in difficulty (meaning AI, type, and skills used) descending and less challenging going up. The dead enemies will not give any xp or loot, only the Gate keepers, and other  "live" enemies will. If you die again in any area, you will be sent back to the starting point of the floor you died on. Eventually when you make it to the outermost level you will come across a ferry, where you will have to pay all of the money you have on you for him to take you to the land of the living.

 

However, you can pm friends to come rescue you. If they choose to do this, when they get to the ferry man, he will take them to he Underworld for free. They will have to fight their way down to you, then back up, and everyone will have to pay. 

 

Extra info:

There is item conditions for weapons and armor

No, you can't warp, teleport, or fast travel out

Everything killed by players is sent to the Underworld. Including all bosses. And even they are trying to escape the Underworld

Comments

  • madmikethegmmadmikethegm Little Rock, ARMember Posts: 42 Uncommon

    I believe that Planeshift has something like this.  Been awhile since I played that though so that might no longer be accurate.

    I agree that death should sting a bit to make the game more exciting, but there's a fine razor edge of balance there.  Make it too tough and potentially piss off players, or make it too easy to where players don't even notice (cough, WoW or Star Trek Online).

    Of all the MMOs I've played I think I liked Asheron Call's death penalty the best.  A little XP debt, lose some items, and you could get those items back if you found your corpse.  It stung just the right amount to me.

    I'd be interested to see what you come up with as a final solution though.

     

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAMember Posts: 6,035 Uncommon

    I have a similar concept, but it only related to the unified system of endgame dungeons - all linked via agarthan tunnels from the map above. There is a lot of things about the normal game that I need not explain, but it's permadeath (yet hard to actually die), and you return to a graveyard as a decendant mourning your clan's grave (every player account gets a physical one in the world) with some random gear and items retained.

    If you die while in the extremely hard endgame instances, you get sent further down within the same complex you are in, and have to return to your corpse to get any gear back (but corpses are lootable by other players, and the maps are persistant and host many players at once). It would be possible to solo the upper layers, but the further you go will require you to respawn from deeper in the pit, with no gear, and the possibitlity of being murdered ad infinitum, until rescue. In a sense, it's an extremely dangerous proposition to die alone in these place - but again, it's really hard to die in the first place with the way healing and other factors work in this particular game.

    Oh, I do like your respawn of mobs though, like they can come crawling out of certain set pieces in waves once a timer goes down, after the area is cleared heavily. Would make for some tense moments as players get adjusted to farming and get hit with a huge overpowering wave for hanging around too long in a bad spot.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöMember Posts: 19,266 Rare

    It have been used in single player games. Another version of it is to let everyone that dies revive in one of the major towns, that works fine in a game without instant travels and with large zones.

    But the problem is really that things like that can become another boring grind fast.

    The concept do have it's merits but I think it really is hard to pull it off. The underworld would have to be more than just annoying.

  • anemoanemo Member Posts: 1,003 Uncommon

    I've had a concept of making death part of PvP.

    When you die you get turned into a monster/spirit/demon, randomly placed in the world and get rewards based on number of kills and time alive as your evil self.

    The longer you're alive without dying the stronger monster you are when you die.

    ___________

    Only sad part was that I realized it would require a larger community than I could aquire, or other mechanics that I didn't want to work on.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • xaritscinxaritscin CaliMember Posts: 350 Uncommon

    Originally posted by anemo

    I've had a concept of making death part of PvP.
    When you die you get turned into a monster/spirit/demon, randomly placed in the world and get rewards based on number of kills and time alive as your evil self.
    The longer you're alive without dying the stronger monster you are when you die.
    ___________
    Only sad part was that I realized it would require a larger community than I could aquire, or other mechanics that I didn't want to work on.

    like some sort of reincarnation?, sounds neat, or maybe reanimation, a necromancer class could rise you as an undead and use you in the battlefield, or maybe you could interact with other players as a ghost. one of the things that annoyed me from WoW is that you became a ghost and couldnt do much.....

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    for the OP, one of the main problems of the idea is that players dont like to loose time while in death penalty, your idea sounds cool for roleplayers, but you have to take in count that the people who like the GOGOGO, want to revive almost instantly......

     

  • Mister_ReMister_Re Detroit, MIMember Posts: 142
    ^^ So what if I added the option to take an exp reduction along with currency upon death to be respawned at the most recent city visited, instead of going to the underworld? I think this would satisfy those people.

    p.s. there is a window of time for others to revive you.
  • xaritscinxaritscin CaliMember Posts: 350 Uncommon

    that would satisfy both types of people....

  • HrothaHrotha -Member Posts: 821

    Originally posted by xaritscin

    that would satisfy both types of people....

    "Both types of people" ? what "both types of people" are out there?

    You do not honestly believe that you can focus only on the two terms "good" and "bad", dont you? This is ONE personality aspect of millions to be an individual, my friend.

     

    But I like the idea to get send into a different plain for your actions in a certain MMO. Like being born neutral, you make your way in this life by your actions. Very simple but very good concept actually.

    But maybe you/we should step away from the very old and mundane "good and bad"-concept.. also from this hell and heaven thing. That's so 2011...

    image

  • itbewillyitbewilly Mason, OHMember Posts: 347 Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mister_Re

    ^^ So what if I added the option to take an exp reduction along with currency upon death to be respawned at the most recent city visited, instead of going to the underworld? I think this would satisfy those people.



    p.s. there is a window of time for others to revive you.

    Sounds like the system Everquest Online Adventures had. When you died in it rather then the dreaded corpse run its pc cousin had you got xp debt where as 50% of your earn exp went towards your debt and the other 50% went towards your regular exp.

  • CarokannCarokann dallas, TXMember Posts: 9

    Originally posted by Mister_Re

    I just wanted to get some feedback on a concept for a death penalty I am working on for a mmo. 
    In the game all those who die go to the Underworld. The Underworld itself is a world seperate from the rest of the in game world. It is a vast multi-leveled labyrinth filled with its own inhabitants, and loot. Each level has a specified starting area, and players must fight their way out while searching for the boss of the level to get a key for entry to the next upper level. The level's enemies increase in difficulty (meaning AI, type, and skills used) descending and less challenging going up. The dead enemies will not give any xp or loot, only the Gate keepers, and other  "live" enemies will. If you die again in any area, you will be sent back to the starting point of the floor you died on. Eventually when you make it to the outermost level you will come across a ferry, where you will have to pay all of the money you have on you for him to take you to the land of the living.
     
    However, you can pm friends to come rescue you. If they choose to do this, when they get to the ferry man, he will take them to he Underworld for free. They will have to fight their way down to you, then back up, and everyone will have to pay. 
     
    Extra info:
    There is item conditions for weapons and armor
    No, you can't warp, teleport, or fast travel out
    Everything killed by players is sent to the Underworld. Including all bosses. And even they are trying to escape the Underworld

    Interesting idea, overall i like the concept of making death more than some simple tax.  There will be a fine line to walk here as others have pointed out.  To easy and it becomes just bothersome to hard and well......

    I think your concept would be better served by a simple mini game of sorts.  Forgger type play with a theme that fits the game, or  having a street fighter type combat using your soul against the grim reaper to win your mortal body back.  Point being something simple enough to not confuse players but at teh same time almost creating an in game meme for the community.

     

    Personally i think system that reward not dieing, giving players bonuses, or visual flairs to charater apperance jsut as interesting, if not more rewarding for gameplay.  

    image
  • Mister_ReMister_Re Detroit, MIMember Posts: 142
    Originally posted by Carokann


    Originally posted by Mister_Re

    I just wanted to get some feedback on a concept for a death penalty I am working on for a mmo. 
    In the game all those who die go to the Underworld. The Underworld itself is a world seperate from the rest of the in game world. It is a vast multi-leveled labyrinth filled with its own inhabitants, and loot. Each level has a specified starting area, and players must fight their way out while searching for the boss of the level to get a key for entry to the next upper level. The level's enemies increase in difficulty (meaning AI, type, and skills used) descending and less challenging going up. The dead enemies will not give any xp or loot, only the Gate keepers, and other  "live" enemies will. If you die again in any area, you will be sent back to the starting point of the floor you died on. Eventually when you make it to the outermost level you will come across a ferry, where you will have to pay all of the money you have on you for him to take you to the land of the living.
     
    However, you can pm friends to come rescue you. If they choose to do this, when they get to the ferry man, he will take them to he Underworld for free. They will have to fight their way down to you, then back up, and everyone will have to pay. 
     
    Extra info:
    There is item conditions for weapons and armor
    No, you can't warp, teleport, or fast travel out
    Everything killed by players is sent to the Underworld. Including all bosses. And even they are trying to escape the Underworld

    Interesting idea, overall i like the concept of making death more than some simple tax.  There will be a fine line to walk here as others have pointed out.  To easy and it becomes just bothersome to hard and well......

    I think your concept would be better served by a simple mini game of sorts.  Forgger type play with a theme that fits the game, or  having a street fighter type combat using your soul against the grim reaper to win your mortal body back.  Point being something simple enough to not confuse players but at teh same time almost creating an in game meme for the community.

     

    Personally i think system that reward not dieing, giving players bonuses, or visual flairs to charater apperance jsut as interesting, if not more rewarding for gameplay.  

     

    I had a concept that kind of played like pac-man, where the players are running from the "ghosts" and instead of just trying to collect all of the power balls, they are running through a maze to the exit.
    But the game is a virtual world, and that would be an immersion breaker, but nothing is set in stone yet.
    Thanks for the tip
  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZMember Posts: 330 Uncommon


    Originally posted by Carokann

     
    Personally i think system that reward not dieing, giving players bonuses, or visual flairs to character appearance just as interesting, if not more rewarding for gameplay.  

    Interesting, I hadn't thought of that before.

  • lionhairgirllionhairgirl Tuscaloosa, ALMember Posts: 3

    Originally posted by Mister_Re

    I just wanted to get some feedback on a concept for a death penalty I am working on for a mmo. 
    In the game all those who die go to the Underworld. The Underworld itself is a world seperate from the rest of the in game world. It is a vast multi-leveled labyrinth filled with its own inhabitants, and loot. Each level has a specified starting area, and players must fight their way out while searching for the boss of the level to get a key for entry to the next upper level. The level's enemies increase in difficulty (meaning AI, type, and skills used) descending and less challenging going up. The dead enemies will not give any xp or loot, only the Gate keepers, and other  "live" enemies will. If you die again in any area, you will be sent back to the starting point of the floor you died on. Eventually when you make it to the outermost level you will come across a ferry, where you will have to pay all of the money you have on you for him to take you to the land of the living.
     
    However, you can pm friends to come rescue you. If they choose to do this, when they get to the ferry man, he will take them to he Underworld for free. They will have to fight their way down to you, then back up, and everyone will have to pay. 
     
    Extra info:
    There is item conditions for weapons and armor
    No, you can't warp, teleport, or fast travel out
    Everything killed by players is sent to the Underworld. Including all bosses. And even they are trying to escape the Underworld



    This is similar to the final dungeon in Final Fantasy XII. If you failed to complete the final level correctly, you got sent to an Underworld of sorts where you had to fight your way out. I always died at this point and opted to restart :/

    But, since you can use friends as lifelines in your version I'm sure it might be okay. It'll just be quite frustrating for people who play games alone.

    Yeah I'm actually playing Skyrim right now...

  • RemainsRemains MalmöMember Posts: 375 Uncommon

    I've had thoughts about a system similar to this, OP. And being able to opt out for a somewhat heavy cost sounds good as well.

    A system like this could work well in a sandbox type of MMO, it could even be tied to a criminal system: the more you steal, destroy, and kill random people, the heavier payment in the afterlife (like starting much deeper in hell, with harder demons.image)

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandMember Posts: 3,039 Uncommon

    Age of Conan was supposed to have something like this, or at least they touted it during development as a feature. Needless to say it never appeared.

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