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  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    ok but are you saying its to much to ask for a company to have maybe half of these since they have been around forever now? 

    Because really, every item on that list is something that Bioware wanted for their game, or which just couldn't possibly be pushed to an expansion or free content upgrade later on.

    Yes, you're asking too much. Sure, Bioware are a major studio with a series of hit games behind them, but developing an MMO is a whole new animal from developing single player games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. There's a hell of a lot more involved, and Bioware had to expand and hire and make all kinds of decisions in order to get SWTOR made. It's not as simple as looking at everything that WoW has and deciding that all of it fits SWTOR perfectly and that it all has to go in on Day 1. They needed to design and build the game and get it up and running smoothly, which they've done so far. Now, they add to what they've done and tweak and refine things. 

    Maybe some of those features will go in. Maybe they won't. But to sit there and offer a list of almost 40 features that "should" be in a game at launch because other games put those features in over YEARS of expansions and additional development flies in the face of all reason. It's not as simple as all that. 

    wish this were true but I feel this game is going to slowly decline instead of slowly increase because many of that stuff is missing and not enough here is new enough to keep people playing for years letting them catch up to the other MMOs out there aside from the most loyal followers.. It's not like this is the only MMO out you want to design a game to keep people playing your game and not go back to whatever they were playing before. I just feel bioware is banking to much on there name and star wars IP and don't think this is going to pay off as well as I and many others were expecting.

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXPosts: 2,300Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    wish this were true but I feel this game is going to slowly decline instead of slowly increase because many of that stuff is missing and not enough here is new enough to keep people playing for years letting them catch up to the other MMOs out there aside from the most loyal followers.. It's not like this is the only MMO out you want to design a game to keep people playing your game and not go back to whatever they were playing before. I just feel bioware is banking to much on there name and star wars IP and don't think this is going to pay off as well as I and many others were expecting.

    Why don't we wait until the game's been out beyond its free month before we start writing its eulogy?

    I don't think that anything is set in stone yet. 

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    wish this were true but I feel this game is going to slowly decline instead of slowly increase because many of that stuff is missing and not enough here is new enough to keep people playing for years letting them catch up to the other MMOs out there aside from the most loyal followers.. It's not like this is the only MMO out you want to design a game to keep people playing your game and not go back to whatever they were playing before. I just feel bioware is banking to much on there name and star wars IP and don't think this is going to pay off as well as I and many others were expecting.

    Why don't we wait until the game's been out beyond its free month before we start writing its eulogy?

    I don't think that anything is set in stone yet. 

    sounds fun but what else is there to do in the mean time when you are bored and can't play at the moment.. I'd rather discuss my concerns and in tern hope to inlfuence some people to voice there concerns more on the official forums to help get the ball moving on features that I feel will help this game grow and not decline... such as the soon to come LFG tool

  • StruggsStruggs Cincinnati, OHPosts: 205Member


    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Struggs
     


    Originally posted by Lidane



    Originally posted by sanosukex
    my comparison was just to show the people that can't seem to comprehend why people are upset about some of this or all of this is missing from a 2012 MMO.. doesn't matter what product or media type you apply it to... if a director went and made a new super high budget SCI-FI movie it had the best acting and story of any movie before it yet looked like it was made with the same technology as the original star wars you think people wouldn't be pissed? or if the next modern warfare game came out in 5 years and went back to similar game mechanics as as modern warfare 1 getting rid of all the level ups and everything they added throughout the series you wouldn't expect people to tear the game apart?


    That's fine, but irrelevant to my point.
    It's easy for people on message boards to be armchair developers, saying what should and should not go into a game. It's another thing entirely to work at a game studio and actually develop a game. It's a whole different game when you actually have to plan and budget for things, and have definte milestones and goals that need to be reached. You simply can't be everything to everyone right from the start. Some things take longer than others, if they even fit your game in the first place. That's the point.



     
    Don't say that bc now people are going to claim they work, have worked or in school for such a thing


    The funny thing is, I have actually worked at a game studio. I also have colleagues in the game industry. I've seen first-hand what they go through when they develop games. It's not as easy as people think, and it sure as hell isn't glamorous. Those millions of dollars in budgets go for things as mundane as paying the water and electric bills, buying office supplies, and making sure that everyone in the office gets paid.  It doesn't all go into the game itself. And if a studio has multiple projects? That money gets divided up between them all.
    Decisions have to be made, and sometimes things you might want just can't happen. Or they can happen, but they're going to take longer than you'd like, or than the message boards would want. That's just the way things work. It's business, and eventually, the reality of business collides with the fanboy wishes and you can't do it all at launch. 

    Sorry I wasn't trying to say what you were saying was wrong. In fact I totally agree with what you just wrote. I was pointing out the opposite of what you are saying. People trying to tell others what they "know" Bioware could've added and how long it takes and when they should've had it implemented yada yada. That comment was more sarcasim then anything.

    imageimage

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXPosts: 2,300Member

    Originally posted by Struggs

     

    Sorry I wasn't trying to say what you were saying was wrong. In fact I totally agree with what you just wrote. I was pointing out the opposite of what you are saying. People trying to tell others what they "know" Bioware could've added and how long it takes and when they should've had it implemented yada yada. That comment was more sarcasim then anything.

    Oh, I know. I understood what you were saying. image

     

  • XychedXyched Stonington, LAPosts: 24Member

    Alright, so I'm about to nitpick, but only because the idea here is so absurd- how can anyone belittle this game on the grounds that it has no swimming? More often than not, the characters in the game are wearing suits of dense metals. They're covered in electronics. How can any of you claim with a straight face that it's more realistic, immersive, or "polished" for some armored Commando to go swimming on a mission? Should he fly, too? It's absolutely unbelievable what some people will complain about.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Xyched

    Alright, so I'm about to nitpick, but only because the idea here is so absurd- how can anyone belittle this game on the grounds that it has no swimming? More often than not, the characters in the game are wearing suits of dense metals. They're covered in electronics. How can any of you claim with a straight face that it's more realistic, immersive, or "polished" for some armored Commando to go swimming on a mission? Should he fly, too? It's absolutely unbelievable what some people will complain about.

    my bounty hunter has a jetpack but can't fly like in the movies aside from a few short bursts... you REALLY don't want to get into a realism battle over first star wars and second a MMO

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXPosts: 2,300Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Xyched

    Alright, so I'm about to nitpick, but only because the idea here is so absurd- how can anyone belittle this game on the grounds that it has no swimming? More often than not, the characters in the game are wearing suits of dense metals. They're covered in electronics. How can any of you claim with a straight face that it's more realistic, immersive, or "polished" for some armored Commando to go swimming on a mission? Should he fly, too? It's absolutely unbelievable what some people will complain about.

    my bounty hunter has a jetpack but can't fly like in the movies aside from a few short bursts... you REALLY don't want to get into a realism battle over first star wars and second a MMO

    The only "realism" battle that matters anymore is that one of them has the Star Wars IP license from Lucas Arts and the other one is dead and gone forever.

    The rest is details.

  • udorusudorus edinburghPosts: 79Member

    The only thing that bothers me is the load in screens i now have a book beside my pc as i have waited for 5 mins or more on several occasions to play this. I have resubbed for 1 month down from my planned 3 months but this i suspect will kill it for me which is sad as i do enjoy it.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Xyched

    Alright, so I'm about to nitpick, but only because the idea here is so absurd- how can anyone belittle this game on the grounds that it has no swimming? More often than not, the characters in the game are wearing suits of dense metals. They're covered in electronics. How can any of you claim with a straight face that it's more realistic, immersive, or "polished" for some armored Commando to go swimming on a mission? Should he fly, too? It's absolutely unbelievable what some people will complain about.

    my bounty hunter has a jetpack but can't fly like in the movies aside from a few short bursts... you REALLY don't want to get into a realism battle over first star wars and second a MMO

     

    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.
  • pharazonicpharazonic LDNPosts: 860Member

    Originally posted by smh_alot

     

    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.

    Two can play at this game. 

    You find that bugs you but not how whacking someone with a lightsaber does nothing to them? 

    What about how NPCs stand dumbly taking whatever beating they're receiving? Even when they wiled guns and when you hit them in melee, they react no differently whatsoever?

    "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    I need to take this advice more.

  • pharazonicpharazonic LDNPosts: 860Member

    Originally posted by Wookiee6648

    OP is full of it and never played the game, you can tell by his list  

    The OP is a long-time beta tester and follower of this game. 

    "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    I need to take this advice more.

  • pharazonicpharazonic LDNPosts: 860Member

    Originally posted by Honeymoon69

    Clone gone bad.

    Very bad...image

    "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    I need to take this advice more.

  • XychedXyched Stonington, LAPosts: 24Member

    But that's exactly what I'm saying. The world is fiction. There's no more an argument for some silly, useless ability like swimming than there is against it. If the devs decided to focus on the rest of the game, where you're fighting and questing and not doing laps at the pool in the local YMCA, how can anyone decry that as a fault? It's swimming, ffs.

     

    EDIT: The intention of my post is being misinterpreted, my own fault. I'm not arguing that swimming should be excluded on the grounds of realism, I'm arguing with regards to the triviality of these features that SWTOR is supposedly lacking in. You're absolutely right- you can't kill bugs, and your lightsabers will swing harmlessly through NPCs. As it should be. There would be no purpose to including these features, just like there's no purpose to include something silly like swimming.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by pharazonic

    Originally posted by smh_alot

     

    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.

    Two can play at this game. 

    You find that bugs you but not how whacking someone with a lightsaber does nothing to them? 

    What about how NPCs stand dumbly taking whatever beating they're receiving? Even when they wiled guns and when you hit them in melee, they react no differently whatsoever?

    lol yea fact the lightsabers don't slice everyone into pieces is well yea.. that's why I didn't want to get into a realism debate over this game.

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    Originally posted by Deewe


    1. Swimming - Yeah, because what's the point of being a Sith Lord if you can't relax at the beach once in a while?


    2. Third party addons - No thanks. I've seen what crap like gearscore and damage meters did to WoW's already toxic community. Try paying attention to the actual game. If you need a threatmeter, then you're not a very good player anyway.


    3. Minigames like card games or slot gamers - Pazaak is coming, and admittedly I'd like to see that nice casino on Nar Shaddaa have a use other than looking pretty.


    4. Dual spec - There are respec NPCs, you know. Or, don't let others tell you what spec to play. Play what you like. If your guild gives you crap, find a new guild.


    5. Day/night cycles - Not really needed. Besides, some planets are gloomy enough during the daytime (I'm looking at YOU, Taris and Quesh)


    6. Non humanoid based playable races - Yes, because Kowakian Monkey-Lizards make EXCELLENT bounty hunters...


    7. Planetary housing - We have a house that flies from planet to planet, and can blow sh*t up. But no, I'd rather have a dirt hovel on Tatooine...


    8. Housing furnishing - My ship is built for efficiency, not to be featured in 'Better Homes & Gardens'


    9. Animal based pet classes - As cool as it would be to have a pet vornskr, no. These have little place in Star Wars (outside Jabba's palace, anyway).


    10. Resources for crafting that do have quality - Needlessly complex, and frustrating. Plus there are different rarities of crafting materials needed to craft blue and purple items anyway.


    11. Complex crafting system - Vanguard and EQ2 both had 'complex crafting systems', and you know what? They were boring and tedious as all hell. No thanks.


    12. Guild leveling system - Pointless. Only exists for e-peen waving.


    13. Animal mounts - Why? We have the Star Wars equivalent of a motorcycle. That's awesome enough. Granted, you can't really cut a speeder open and stuff yourself inside to stay warm on Hoth though.


    14. Flying mounts - Unnecessary at this point. I would kinda like to see them sometime in the future though.


    15. PvP Arenas - OH DEAR GOD NO. This right here is the WORST thing to happen to WoW. All the whining and moaning about classes being overpowered, the nerfs that screwed many classes in PvE... all so a bunch of 'leet' morons could wave their e-peens about. No thank you.


    16. Collision detection between characters - Yeah, because it's fun to get a few friends and block the cantina entrance for a couple hours


    17. Macros - Yeah, sure. Who wants to actually play the game, when the game can play itself?


    18. Barber / Image Designer - Create a character while lucid. Problem solved.


    19. Appearance tabs - Would be nice, admittedly, but the mod system does pretty well for customization. I've been wearing the same chestpiece for 30 levels now.


    20. Fishing - Yeah, because we all remember that famous scene where Vader was chillin' with Palpatine on their pontoon boat for an afternoon of beer & fishing. Maybe that'll be in the next 'special edition'.


    21. Guild "Tabard" - The majority of people never wore these anyway. Useless fluff.


    22. Multiplayer mounts - More pointlessness. Besides, there is one or two in the game anyway.


    23. Gear Dyes - Because nothing says 'Darth Badassery' like a fuschia and lime green color scheme.


    24. Shared storage bank slots - There is a mail system in game which works just fine.


    25. In game voice chat - Use Ventrilo, Skype, Teamspeak, etc. These are used even in games WITH integrated VOIP.


    26. LFG tool - Not needed. There's a chat window in the upper left, use it.


    27. Guild bank - Yeah, so that way when someone's account gets hacked by a credit farmer, they can steal all the guild's stuff too!


    28. Incentives for socialization - Wasn't aware we needed incentives to talk to people. But we do get increased XP and social points for grouping. I don't know what else you want. A trophy or plaque that says, "I SOCIALIZED!" on it perhaps?


    29. Character extended body customization - Wow, check out the DD's on that smuggler!


    30. 3 Factions RvR - Agreed. The gonk droids should clearly break away and make their own bid for power.


    31. Wolrd PvP - It's not the developer's job to make people participate in world PvP, this is solely on the players. Unless you're talking about incentives... but seriously, remember when doing it 'for fun' was incentive enough?


    32. RPG tools - Yeah, because we need 'tools' to RP properly /faceplam


    33. Underwater content - You REALLY want to go down and visit the Gungans, don't you? The prospect of killing Jar-Jar's ancestors is tempting though.


    34. 3d exploration - Almost nobody cares about this.

     

     

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by pharazonic


    Originally posted by smh_alot
     
    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.

    Two can play at this game. 

    You find that bugs you but not how whacking someone with a lightsaber does nothing to them? 

    What about how NPCs stand dumbly taking whatever beating they're receiving? Even when they wiled guns and when you hit them in melee, they react no differently whatsoever?

     

    I didn't say it bugged me. I merely mentioned an example to indicate that realism and MMO's is a purely subjective thing, just a subjective feeling and impression, where different people choose to ignore different breaks from realism and/or get apoplexied by other realism disparities.


    To use your example, NPC's have been standing like dummies for ages in MMO's, even when been set on fire, hacked to pieces - if it had been real - and become a hedgehog with all the arrows hitting them square, or in shooters and MMOFPS being riddled with bullets and only losing some health instead of bleeding to death or being instakilled. Still, I and whole masses of other gamers had an awesome time in those games despite the many breaks from realism that could objectively be found in those games. Besides, I've also encountered quite a number of times that NPC's dove for cover or tried to create some distance in TOR. Anyway, this discussion is useless, I refer to my argument in the first point, realism is subjective, people choose to ignore thre reality breaks differently from one person to the next, but they all have to do it.
  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Xyched

    But that's exactly what I'm saying. The world is fiction. There's no more an argument for some silly, useless ability like swimming than there is against it. If the devs decided to focus on the rest of the game, where you're fighting and questing and not doing laps at the pool in the local YMCA, how can anyone decry that as a fault? It's swimming, ffs.

     

    EDIT: The intention of my post is being misinterpreted, my own fault. I'm not arguing that swimming should be excluded on the grounds of realism, I'm arguing with regards to the triviality of these features that SWTOR is supposedly lacking in. You're absolutely right- you can't kill bugs, and your lightsabers will swing harmlessly through NPCs. As it should be. There would be no purpose to including these features, just like there's no purpose to include something silly like swimming.

    perhaps you missed episode I... how did they get to jar jar's homeworld again? oh yea thats right they swam.. and lets not forgot the whole underwater submarine thing they had going on when they left his homeworld.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by pharazonic


    Originally posted by smh_alot
     
    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.

    Two can play at this game. 

    You find that bugs you but not how whacking someone with a lightsaber does nothing to them? 

    What about how NPCs stand dumbly taking whatever beating they're receiving? Even when they wiled guns and when you hit them in melee, they react no differently whatsoever?

    lol yea fact the lightsabers don't slice everyone into pieces is well yea.. that's why I didn't want to get into a realism debate over this game.

     

    Same applies to lightsabres in SWG, or bullets and guns used in shooters and MMOFPS, or NPC's and players being set on fire and stabbed multiple times while happily fighting on until their health bar reaches zero, etc.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Xyched

    But that's exactly what I'm saying. The world is fiction. There's no more an argument for some silly, useless ability like swimming than there is against it. If the devs decided to focus on the rest of the game, where you're fighting and questing and not doing laps at the pool in the local YMCA, how can anyone decry that as a fault? It's swimming, ffs.

     

    EDIT: The intention of my post is being misinterpreted, my own fault. I'm not arguing that swimming should be excluded on the grounds of realism, I'm arguing with regards to the triviality of these features that SWTOR is supposedly lacking in. You're absolutely right- you can't kill bugs, and your lightsabers will swing harmlessly through NPCs. As it should be. There would be no purpose to including these features, just like there's no purpose to include something silly like swimming.

    perhaps you missed episode I... how did they get to jar jar's homeworld again? oh yea thats right they swam.. and lets not forgot the whole underwater submarine thing they had going on when they left his homeworld.

    They didn't learn how to swim until 1000 years after TOR.

     

    Honestly though, underwater content would just be really stupid...  underwater combat in general is kind of shifty to me, couple that with troopers with harpoon mini-guns and lightsabers covered in  plastic wrap.. I dunno...  I don't think thats where the content should have gone.

     

    I'd be more apt to see pod racing or space combat.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • XychedXyched Stonington, LAPosts: 24Member

    You're absolutely right. So only one class in the game gets swimming. Fair?

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by pharazonic


    Originally posted by smh_alot

     

    Shrug. SWTOR is an MMORPG, that it doesn't have some elements that some people seem to crave doesn't make it any less an MMORPG. As for realism, it's all subjective and in people's mind what scratches their itch and what not. Players in full heavy armor swimming and diving as if they're as light as a bird is just 1 minor thing that pops up in my mind.

    Two can play at this game. 

    You find that bugs you but not how whacking someone with a lightsaber does nothing to them? 

    What about how NPCs stand dumbly taking whatever beating they're receiving? Even when they wiled guns and when you hit them in melee, they react no differently whatsoever?

    lol yea fact the lightsabers don't slice everyone into pieces is well yea.. that's why I didn't want to get into a realism debate over this game.

     

    Same applies to lightsabres in SWG, or bullets and guns used in shooters and MMOFPS, or NPC's and players being set on fire and stabbed multiple times while happily fighting on until their health bar reaches zero, etc.

    very true which is why I said before no reason to add realism debates in these types of games.. and for the swimming well see my post above.. I feel it adds a whole other dimension to a game and if done right and not just used as an afterthought can really be great for games.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Xyched

    But that's exactly what I'm saying. The world is fiction. There's no more an argument for some silly, useless ability like swimming than there is against it. If the devs decided to focus on the rest of the game, where you're fighting and questing and not doing laps at the pool in the local YMCA, how can anyone decry that as a fault? It's swimming, ffs.

     

    EDIT: The intention of my post is being misinterpreted, my own fault. I'm not arguing that swimming should be excluded on the grounds of realism, I'm arguing with regards to the triviality of these features that SWTOR is supposedly lacking in. You're absolutely right- you can't kill bugs, and your lightsabers will swing harmlessly through NPCs. As it should be. There would be no purpose to including these features, just like there's no purpose to include something silly like swimming.

    perhaps you missed episode I... how did they get to jar jar's homeworld again? oh yea thats right they swam.. and lets not forgot the whole underwater submarine thing they had going on when they left his homeworld.

    They didn't learn how to swim until 1000 years after TOR.

     

    Honestly though, underwater content would just be really stupid...  underwater combat in general is kind of shifty to me, couple that with troopers with harpoon mini-guns and lightsabers covered in  plastic wrap.. I dunno...  I don't think thats where the content should have gone.

     

    I'd be more apt to see pod racing or space combat.

    I agree there underwater stuff needs to be done well or it just feels wrong and most games don't do it well.. but yes I would rather have actual space combat and especially pvp space combat and pod racing would be a welcome addition as well

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Xyched

    You're absolutely right. So only one class in the game gets swimming. Fair?

    no of course not but people keep saying things like this sort of stuff has no place in the star wars universe yet it does.. also like the animal mounts argument.. there were tons of animal mounts in star wars go back and watch there were a lot not to mention the huge three horned thing anakin jumps on top of and rides in episode 2 when they are going to be executed on Geonosis

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Behold the surviver thread from the moderato-hammer!

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