There's a lot of groupign all the time. It's the heroics that are driving it. At least from what I see.
If I help out with one heroic I usually end up helping with several more. It's not hard to get a group in this game.
...and again for the umpteenth time it is relative to the server you play on. When are you folks going to get it through your head that just because you aren't personally experiencing the issue that it does not mean the issue does not exist?
Really now...
I mean seriously. Even if you aren't having the problem what possible harm is there in having more mechanics in place for others to group? Not everyone that is asking for some mechanics to be put into place is asking for an lfd.
I would love to see the explanation as to why this would be a bad thing or somehow affect your gameplay assuming we aren't referring to an lfd. Which is being blamed for the state of communities in mmorpgs at this point. Which on a side note is absolute bullshit but that's a discussion for another day. Probably in five minutes on the main forum when someone makes another topic about it.
Really makes no sense whatsoever regardless whether it is effecting you personally or not that some are so dead set against BW adding any grouping mechanics at all or revamping the little they currently have. There is no drawback to it.
...and not directed at the person I quoted but to those saying that those asking for it are being lazy? Really? Okay...well those against it are simply being ignorant and selfish.
I find it hard to believe that my server is grouping heaven and everyone else on other servers are all standing around not knowing what to do.
So you are saying that no one is looking for group in chat? That no one is doing these heroics?
Ok I'll bite. What server are you on that this is not happening. I'll go check it out myself. edit: and what side?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by Sovrath There's a lot of groupign all the time. It's the heroics that are driving it. At least from what I see. If I help out with one heroic I usually end up helping with several more. It's not hard to get a group in this game.
...and again for the umpteenth time it is relative to the server you play on. When are you folks going to get it through your head that just because you aren't personally experiencing the issue that it does not mean the issue does not exist? Really now...
Why don't you understand that because it's happening to you it doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue? Just because people on forums claim it's happening to them doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue (or even an issue).
Bioware knows more about what's happening on all of their 217 or so servers than anyone here or on their forums. If people are unable to get groups, they know about it. If people are skipping or avoiding the group content, they know about it. If it's an issue, they'll do something to address it. Developers are real big about getting people to do all the available content. They want people to do all that group content. If it's an issue, they'll address it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So many people have been defending how great it is this game has no LFD tool and how great it is to build the community and everything. Now I'm talking the game needs a SAME server LFD tool here not cross server.. anyway this is what chat has become and it's what I been saying all along and why these type of games really need a same server LFD tool. I can't even hold a useful conversation with people in general chat because of this crap is spammed non -stop
Just think, if everyone were actually SOCIAL in these online massively multiplayer games, there would never be a need for LFG tools OR spamming chat channels.
You'd have FRIENDS and GUILDIES to run with!
At least with spamming chat channels you actually have to talk to people, perhaps even be NICE and COMPETENT to get invited to a group and succeed.
Certainly a step above the alternative:
Click a button, wait a bit, do some content in silence and/or rage quit without a word (or with lots of bad words) when things aren't 100% perfect because you have no social skills!
So many people have been defending how great it is this game has no LFD tool and how great it is to build the community and everything. Now I'm talking the game needs a SAME server LFD tool here not cross server.. anyway this is what chat has become and it's what I been saying all along and why these type of games really need a same server LFD tool. I can't even hold a useful conversation with people in general chat because of this crap is spammed non -stop
Peope are quick to blame the degregation of an MMO community on something like an LFD tool which is totally unsupported. The tool did NOTHING to the degregation of the community, it was the community itself that did it.
Well to put it bluntly (and I know the MMO old timers will disagree due to rose colored glasses)..
The community was always terrible. However, in the older games they had rougher mechanics so people had to beat around the bush a bit more while being shitty to eachother. You couldn't just openly trash anyone who made you mad because you NEEDED a group... or you NEEDED people to repair your gear... or people could kill you and take your gear....
But EQ1's community was a bit of a cesspool even back in 1999.
I never saw a cesspool in EQ. And I don't have "rose-tinted glasses on". I'm well aware that EQ was not perfect and had issues, but bad community wasn't one of them. Any time I saw someone getting assy, they would be denounced by so many on chat that they would slink away. I never found it difficult to get help on corpse-runs or answering a noob question. Most guilds would eject a plyer if they acted out or had complaints from other players, as it reflected badly against them. The idiotic chat or behavior I see as common in games now, were a rarity in EQ.
You are saying that one can actually join a guild with like minded people who probably have alts at different level ranges and who probably have regular weekly events or where one can create their own weekly events?
Where if one needs some help with some quests then they can arrange things with their guild mates?
The devil you say!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I find it hard to believe that my server is grouping heaven and everyone else on other servers are all standing around not knowing what to do.
So you are saying that no one is looking for group in chat? That no one is doing these heroics?
Ok I'll bite. What server are you on that this is not happening. I'll go check it out myself. edit: and what side?
Yes, clearly those having trouble finding groups simply don't know what they're doing. You Caught us. Busted. That explains everything.
>_>
Did I say people weren't using chat to find groups? Feel free to quote where I did. Plenty are looking but seems no one is ever looking at the same time or looking to do the same heroics as others. I have also said in the past that I play a healer so while I have run into this it isn't near as bad for me as I have seen it for others playing dps. Unlike some around here though just because I'm not getting near as stonewalled as others I can actually see where they're coming from.
I'll have to let you know the server when I get home from work. I play on the Republic side. Feel free to do so if you wish. Problem doesn't really start coming to a head until you get to Nar Shaddar and beyond but whatever floats your boat.
I also love how you completely glossed over how having some refined group mechanics is a bad thing or would effect your gameplay. But hey...whatever works.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You are saying that one can actually join a guild with like minded people who probably have alts at different level ranges and who probably have regular weekly events or where one can create their own weekly events?
Where if one needs some help with some quests then they can arrange things with their guild mates?
The devil you say!
Apparently I'm a bit of a radical these days.
But I come from a time where your reputation and social connections were the ONLY way to get groups.
If it takes time and effort to form a group, then people are more likely to "behave" themselves in the group because they're afraid of being kicked.
If you create a lounge type LFD tool, then it takes the personal time/investment out of it. If you can quit a group and get into another one shortly after, there's no incentive to act unselfishly.
LDF destroys the community. I'm certain that WoW was a better game and a better community in Vanilla when people knew the best players on the server and where reputation mattered.
LFD is the first step towards getting things like paid name changes, paid server transfers, etc. Why does this matter? Because you can ninja loot, change your name and change server. If you keep the game as is, it matters how you conduct yourself on the server. Reputation matters.
I also love how you completely glossed over how having some refined group mechanics is a bad thing or would effect your gameplay. But hey...whatever works.
I didn't gloss over it I just didn't answer every point to your post. I'm in game at the moment.
As far as having refined mechanics, this is probably personal taste. I only believe in a lfg tool if it flags you for certain quests. I don't believe in a lfg tool that automatically puts together a group and then ports you to a particular spot.
and "yes" I know you didn't say that but I'm just being clear on my ideas about a lfg tool.
As far as your other point nar shaddar just isn't conducive for groups because I don't think anyone wants to be there. Pity that. It "looks" good but It's sort of a pain to be there so I think people are rushing through as quickly as possible.
Tatooine seems to be very heavy on groups.
So are you in a guild?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
...and again for the umpteenth time it is relative to the server you play on. When are you folks going to get it through your head that just because you aren't personally experiencing the issue that it does not mean the issue does not exist?
Really now...
Why don't you understand that because it's happening to you it doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue? Just because people on forums claim it's happening to them doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue (or even an issue).
Bioware knows more about what's happening on all of their 217 or so servers than anyone here or on their forums. If people are unable to get groups, they know about it. If people are skipping or avoiding the group content, they know about it. If it's an issue, they'll do something to address it. Developers are real big about getting people to do all the available content. They want people to do all that group content. If it's an issue, they'll address it.
Really is astounding to me that you would want it to reach a point where it is effecting subs or retention beforehand. I'll say it again. Why is being reactive somehow better than proactive? What possible drawbacks are there to them refining their mechanics or adding additional ones now even if it is the minority at this point? Which for the record neither of us now how large or small it is at this point.
I mean really. How would them doing this outside of an lfd effect you or anyone elses gameplay that isn't having problems? So what is the real issue here? So what if you and Sovrath aren't experiencing this? Some are and why not add some features to assist them or less populated servers in general?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Rest be assured, there will probably be LFD tool added to the game in the future. It makes sense to not have it during the first few months of launch. But wait until the game loses the usual % of subscribers after the first month, and however many for whatever else reasons.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by lizardbones
...and again for the umpteenth time it is relative to the server you play on. When are you folks going to get it through your head that just because you aren't personally experiencing the issue that it does not mean the issue does not exist? Really now... Why don't you understand that because it's happening to you it doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue? Just because people on forums claim it's happening to them doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue (or even an issue).
Bioware knows more about what's happening on all of their 217 or so servers than anyone here or on their forums. If people are unable to get groups, they know about it. If people are skipping or avoiding the group content, they know about it. If it's an issue, they'll do something to address it. Developers are real big about getting people to do all the available content. They want people to do all that group content. If it's an issue, they'll address it.
Really is astounding to me that you would want it to reach a point where it is effecting subs or retention beforehand. I'll say it again. Why is being reactive somehow better than proactive? What possible drawbacks are there to them refining their mechanics or adding additional ones now even if it is the minority at this point? Which for the record neither of us now how large or small it is at this point. I mean really. How would them doing this outside of an lfd effect you or anyone elses gameplay that isn't having problems? So what is the real issue here? So what if you and Sovrath aren't experiencing this? Some are and why not add some features to assist them or less populated servers in general?
It doesn't have to affect the subs or retention for it to be an issue. All that has to happen is for a measurable number of people to stop doing the group content. Bioware wants people to do that group content, whether it affects subs or not. That's why they put the content in there. That's why Blizzard put their LFD tool in place. People weren't doing the group content.
I don't have anything in particular against a LFD tool. I don't have anything in particular against the LFG spam in general chat either. A LFG just doesn't appear to be something necessary for SWToR right now (to me).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I didn't gloss over it I just didn't answer every point to your post. I'm in game at the moment.
As far as having refined mechanics, this is probably personal taste. I only believe in a lfg tool if it flags you for certain quests. I don't believe in a lfg tool that automatically puts together a group and then ports you to a particular spot.
and "yes" I know you didn't say that but I'm just being clear on my ideas about a lfg tool.
As far as your other point nar shaddar just isn't conducive for groups because I don't think anyone wants to be there. Pity that. It "looks" good but It's sort of a pain to be there so I think people are rushing through as quickly as possible.
Tatooine seems to be very heavy on groups.
So are you in a guild?
I have already said several times in my posts that I am not referring to an lfd mechanic. Wouldn't be the end of the world to me if they were to add one, but I don't think they have to incorporate something so drastic. Something like DDO has would be nice. Or one that does a search that you queue up for and then notified you when you ahve a full group would be cool. Then give you an option to join and simply be grouped. No porting. No autoquesting. You would have to have the quest to queue for it and still travel to the locale. Or whatever other ideas they may come up with on their own.
I am not in a guild. I actually enjoy pugs personally.
...and again while this has been a problem for me I have seen it affecting others a lot more due to their class selection and in the forums in general. I would rather they remedy the situation now before it becomes worse and reaches a level that it has in other games and then have to run around madly trying to incorporate tools like these.
So far it has only caused me to drop one quest - Jawa's Concern - because I could not find a group for it after three days of trying. The rest have either been short waits or rather long ones but I have been able to accomplish it.
Far as planets go from Nar Shaddar on it appears to be getting gradually worse. Not sure if it is because people are becoming more spread out or what. You got me for the reason.
Frankly, even if this wasn't affecting me at all I would still be a proponent for this system seeing some love and revamping. I have always backed issues in a game even if it doesn't effect me personally if it is a game I plan on playing for any extended length of time because far as I'm concerned the more content players across the board then the healthier the game is overall. Which benefits me indirectly assuming the company will put that much more effort in supporting the game as a whole.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It doesn't have to affect the subs or retention for it to be an issue. All that has to happen is for a measurable number of people to stop doing the group content. Bioware wants people to do that group content, whether it affects subs or not. That's why they put the content in there. That's why Blizzard put their LFD tool in place. People weren't doing the group content.
I don't have anything in particular against a LFD tool. I don't have anything in particular against the LFG spam in general chat either. A LFG just doesn't appear to be something necessary for SWToR right now (to me).
...and you know what their solution will be at that point? They'll end up nerfing the uninstanced quests to either solo or 2 mans and adding an lfd feature which is the main thing those against this altogether don't want.
The same fucking thing they do in every other game when this becomes a widespread problem. Not sure why you guys would want it to reach that point either.
Not to mention it probably will effect retention and subs in the short term if people are trying to complete group quests and are simply unable to on a regular basis. Why put up with the frustration? These games are supposed to be for entertainment not to get frustrated.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by lizardbones It doesn't have to affect the subs or retention for it to be an issue. All that has to happen is for a measurable number of people to stop doing the group content. Bioware wants people to do that group content, whether it affects subs or not. That's why they put the content in there. That's why Blizzard put their LFD tool in place. People weren't doing the group content.
I don't have anything in particular against a LFD tool. I don't have anything in particular against the LFG spam in general chat either. A LFG just doesn't appear to be something necessary for SWToR right now (to me).
...and you know what their solution will be at that point? They'll end up nerfing the the uninstanced quests to either solo or 2 mans and adding an lfd feature which is the main thing those against this altogether don't want. The same fucking thing they do in every other game when this becomes a widespread problem. Not sure why you guys would want it to reach that point either. Not to mention it probably will effect retention and subs in the short term if people are trying to complete group quests and are simply unable to on a regualr basis. Why put up with the frustration? These games are supposed to be for entertainment not to get frustrated.
We don't know what they're going to do. They don't need to nerf the group content because it's not necessary for the leveling process. You can skip all of it and have enough XP to complete your class story. They don't need to add a LFG tool either...they might decide that nerfing content is better (I don't).
That said, they're only going to do something to address the issue once it becomes an issue based on their metrics, not on people posting in the forums.
I think it's far more likely that they put in some sort of LFG tool. I think overall, people would prefer a LFG tool to nerfed content. Bioware won't want to mimic what WoW (or what D&D did), they'll want to do something that is uniquely 'Star Wars'. It won't be as convenient as WoW, but it'll be slicker than D&D's tool; so somewhere between the two. Meh, I guess we'll see soon enough.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I didn't gloss over it I just didn't answer every point to your post. I'm in game at the moment.
As far as having refined mechanics, this is probably personal taste. I only believe in a lfg tool if it flags you for certain quests. I don't believe in a lfg tool that automatically puts together a group and then ports you to a particular spot.
and "yes" I know you didn't say that but I'm just being clear on my ideas about a lfg tool.
As far as your other point nar shaddar just isn't conducive for groups because I don't think anyone wants to be there. Pity that. It "looks" good but It's sort of a pain to be there so I think people are rushing through as quickly as possible.
Tatooine seems to be very heavy on groups.
So are you in a guild?
I have already said several times in my posts that I am not referring to an lfd mechanic. Wouldn't be the end of the world to me if they were to add one, but I don't think they have to incorporate something so drastic. Something like DDO has would be nice. Or one that does a search that you queue up for and then notified you when you ahve a full group would be cool. Then give you an option to join and simply be grouped. No porting. No autoquesting. You would have to have the quest to queue for it and still travel to the locale. Or whatever other ideas they may come up with on their own.
I am not in a guild. I actually enjoy pugs personally.
...and again while this has been a problem for me I have seen it affecting others a lot more due to their class selection and in the forums in general. I would rather they remedy the situation now before it becomes worse and reaches a level that it has in other games and then have to run around madly trying to incorporate tools like these.
So far it has only caused me to drop one quest - Jawa's Concern - because I could not find a group for it after three days of trying. The rest have either been short waits or rather long ones but I have been able to accomplish it.
Far as planets go from Nar Shaddar on it appears to be getting gradually worse. Not sure if it is because people are becoming more spread out or what. You got me for the reason.
Frankly, even if this wasn't affecting me at all I would still be a proponent for this system seeing some love and revamping. I have always backed issues in a game even if it doesn't effect me personally if it is a game I plan on playing for any extended length of time because far as I'm concerned the more content players across the board then the healthier the game is overall. Which benefits me indirectly assuming the company will put that much more effort in supporting the game as a whole.
It's hard for me to argue against something that, while I think it's unecessary, isn't something I would use but that others might find useful.
To that end, though I have always thought a tool that allows people to flag the quests they require would actually be a good thing. Where I think the issue arises is that auto-queuing takes a bit of the "social" out of these games and turns them into an "everyone is soloing in a group" game.
And I'm usually a soloer!
You see, though some people think that solo content is the bane of these games, that is completley not true at all. They say this because they can't understand that there are more ways to be social than grouping. However, now create a tool that curtails the social part of grouping and things start becoming more dicey.
Of course some of this is up to the player but I could easiy imagine using such a tool and never having to speak with a person again. I think that is the real backlash here.
Part of us being social creatures is having a sort of ritual to easy ourselves into social situations. I said something similar in the Vanguard forum but people generally like to be social on their own terms and part of that are proper introductions and "sussing out" other people.
We do it every day. We introduce ourselves, we find common ground and we decide who we want to associate with.
Auto anything in a game messes with this. Now, that doesn't mean it destroys it. But I think the threat to some is that it's just one more rung on the ladder of solo lobby games. It can take away from community without even meaning to do this.
There was a time when one's repuation meant something. Where how far you got in a game depended on who you associated with and their goals. Both good and bad.
But auto assigning people sort of undercuts this. Or at least, without meaning to do this, it hampers the general rituals we have for interacting. Does that mean that if people get thrown together they won't interact? Not necessarily. But knowing how people are I can see it taking the place of getting to know others and just throwing them together based on stats.
So once again, I dont' think such a thing is needed but I can't argue against it because obviously people want this thing. I can argue that it isn't needed if one were truly proactive and one took the time to meet people and form soical groups.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Anyone who is seriously trying to defend the lack of a tool that has been a positive staple in countless MMO's before it needs to check into a rehab and detox from the kool-aid. It doesn't build community, it's just lazy on the part of the devs and they are trying to spin it into some sort of absurd notion to try to justify or cover it up. This is right up there (almost) with FFXIV trying to defend their lack of an Auction House when they practically invented the mechanic in FFXI and it went on to be one of those MMO staples we expect in a modern game.
thank you.. not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to realize.....
I really never and I'm talking from years of MMO experience found my QUALITY of group in PUGs any differn't than when using some sort of LFD tool or spamming chat like an ass for an hour. Of course generally I ideally just group with my guildmates since most are RL friends and it makes things a hell of a lot easier and more fun but honestly you guys are really kidding yourself if you feel the quality of your PUG is somehow magically better because you sat there and spammed chat for 30 min putting a group together.
It's just basic human psychology. "If I can get into a group super easy, I do not value my group as much as say if I had to put an effort to actually find people to play with. If they present problems, I don't bother to rectify them or give them any advise. I can simply leave group, queue up again, and easily be placed in a different one."
Without an LFD tool, it obviously does not mean the average PUG will contain better, more skilled players. It just means the average PUG will contain players that have more respect and value for their group because they had to put an effort in order to establish the group in the first place. This added respect and value leads to a healthier, more sociable, and more helpful community of players. The community becomes more accepting of new players and a notion of working hard with each other to achieve success is cultivated.
I wish this were true. Sadly it's not. I know a bit about psychology myself, but you are off the mark as it is not "us" playing the game. It's an avatar. A sheild if you will. It allows some people to act in a way contrary to real life. So, where in real life, we would value this more, behind the avatar, things are a bit different.
As an example; I got a group together last night and it took about 30 mins. One of the guys who had joined the group early on ended up rolling need on an item another member could use on his character, just because he could use it on a companion. Now we had talked about this before hand and agreed not to do that... Alas... the avatar allowed him to be a dick, and he took the loot and logged off. So much for valuing his group that it took a half an hour to get together.
You see, this will happen with or without the tool. I say, add the damn thing and if you don't want to use it, don't. Another post earlier talked about how people will just stand around and look for a group as opposed to exploring. This is based on the player, not the tool. I often used the tool in WoW and never once just stood around waiting. Explorers gonna explore regardless of this tool.
exactly I don't know why people think magically people will be better quality because they spent the extra time mindlessly spamming LFG in gneral chat.. Maybe people are spoiled with rift and wows LFG system but in all reality we are playing very very solo friendly games you need more incentives to group with people or put in a system that allows easier grouping.
I really don't get why people defend the point of not having a similar system to Rift just not cross server it will increase the number of chances you get to play in a flashpoint it will lessen the time spent looking for group and allows people who don't have the luxury of a large guild or massive amount of time looking for a group. It's a win win and would only help the game.. All my complaints I bring up about the game I feel are ways that will help it and improve retention keeping more players in the long run if not I would'nt even bring these things up
So many people have been defending how great it is this game has no LFD tool and how great it is to build the community and everything. Now I'm talking the game needs a SAME server LFD tool here not cross server.. anyway this is what chat has become and it's what I been saying all along and why these type of games really need a same server LFD tool. I can't even hold a useful conversation with people in general chat because of this crap is spammed non -stop
I think at this point everyone gets that you absolutely hate every aspect of SWTOR. You can stop now.
i think everyone has no idea what they are talking about if you think I HATE this game.. If I did I would not play at all I would not post here, I would not waist my time trying to come up with ways I think would help with game
You can convince yourself that convenience = better communities but in my experiences it breeds complacency. Agree to disagree I guess.
read what I wrote to stealthbr it has nothing to do with convienence the games themselves were designed to develop this sort of anti-social community. Has nothing at all to do with LFD tool.. but I still can't see how you guys can sit there with a straight face and say people spamming LFG in general chat or a LFG channel is community building.
It's called negative reinforcement. They want you to make and group with in-game friends. In WoW you can get to level 50, playing all the instances without talking to anyone. You can do the same thing in TOR, but it's much more difficult. What would be easier would to find a group of like minded players, and group with them when you log on.
To be fair, community is not important in a themepark MMO apart from the social aspect (i.e. Guilds). LFG tools are exactly what the themepark model is all about. Queues for Warzones, queues for Operations, and so on.
Everything in a themepark MMO is handled in small designated boxes anyway. You want to level from 1 to 10, go to Box A, now go to Box B, you want an instance, yes, that's in Box I-1 through I-4 for your level, later Boxes I-5 all the way to I-8 will open up as well.
To be fair, community is not important in a themepark MMO apart from the social aspect (i.e. Guilds). LFG tools are exactly what the themepark model is all about. Queues for Warzones, queues for Operations, and so on.
Everything in a themepark MMO is handled in small designated boxes anyway. You want to level from 1 to 10, go to Box A, now go to Box B, you want an instance, yes, that's in Box I-1 through I-4 for your level, later Boxes I-5 all the way to I-8 will open up as well.
It's the nature of this type of games.
This is true, but only partially and the part that you are not mentioning is the "longest" part of the game for most people. Endgame. Themeparks do designate where you should be and for how long (for the most part), but where the community really shines is in the endgame. Heck, even the last 10 levels or so tend to have a much more active community than the lower levels most of the time since a lot of people start to really slow down the leveling there.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Riiight Danny because they all need to do what the devs got paid to do but failed to put into the game. There's only one thing wrong with his server and it's the same as every other server. they don't have even a simple LOTRO LFG system. LOTRO did go to a more WoW style however when i mention lotro i mean the one that only matched you up with people, it didn't teleport you or autogroup you it simply showed you who was available and what they wanted.
LFG is there to help the players find groups more easily. If you haven't noticed yet, this game is incredibly casual friendly; it's idiotic to withhold such an important tool. Therefore, I believe they didn't do it simply because (A) Technology (B) Costs. or (C) Lack of time. There's absolutely no excuse for a game directed at this target audience and the funding that went into it to forget the LFG tool.
Lastly, don't the Battlegrounds find battles for you? OHHH WAIT! Aren't we hurting the communities there TOO!? *rolleyes*
Comments
I find it hard to believe that my server is grouping heaven and everyone else on other servers are all standing around not knowing what to do.
So you are saying that no one is looking for group in chat? That no one is doing these heroics?
Ok I'll bite. What server are you on that this is not happening. I'll go check it out myself. edit: and what side?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Really now...
Why don't you understand that because it's happening to you it doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue? Just because people on forums claim it's happening to them doesn't mean it's a wide spread issue (or even an issue).
Bioware knows more about what's happening on all of their 217 or so servers than anyone here or on their forums. If people are unable to get groups, they know about it. If people are skipping or avoiding the group content, they know about it. If it's an issue, they'll do something to address it. Developers are real big about getting people to do all the available content. They want people to do all that group content. If it's an issue, they'll address it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Join a guild, ignore general chat.
Just think, if everyone were actually SOCIAL in these online massively multiplayer games, there would never be a need for LFG tools OR spamming chat channels.
You'd have FRIENDS and GUILDIES to run with!
At least with spamming chat channels you actually have to talk to people, perhaps even be NICE and COMPETENT to get invited to a group and succeed.
Certainly a step above the alternative:
Click a button, wait a bit, do some content in silence and/or rage quit without a word (or with lots of bad words) when things aren't 100% perfect because you have no social skills!
I never saw a cesspool in EQ. And I don't have "rose-tinted glasses on". I'm well aware that EQ was not perfect and had issues, but bad community wasn't one of them. Any time I saw someone getting assy, they would be denounced by so many on chat that they would slink away. I never found it difficult to get help on corpse-runs or answering a noob question. Most guilds would eject a plyer if they acted out or had complaints from other players, as it reflected badly against them. The idiotic chat or behavior I see as common in games now, were a rarity in EQ.
Wait a minute?
You are saying that one can actually join a guild with like minded people who probably have alts at different level ranges and who probably have regular weekly events or where one can create their own weekly events?
Where if one needs some help with some quests then they can arrange things with their guild mates?
The devil you say!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, clearly those having trouble finding groups simply don't know what they're doing. You Caught us. Busted. That explains everything.
>_>
Did I say people weren't using chat to find groups? Feel free to quote where I did. Plenty are looking but seems no one is ever looking at the same time or looking to do the same heroics as others. I have also said in the past that I play a healer so while I have run into this it isn't near as bad for me as I have seen it for others playing dps. Unlike some around here though just because I'm not getting near as stonewalled as others I can actually see where they're coming from.
I'll have to let you know the server when I get home from work. I play on the Republic side. Feel free to do so if you wish. Problem doesn't really start coming to a head until you get to Nar Shaddar and beyond but whatever floats your boat.
I also love how you completely glossed over how having some refined group mechanics is a bad thing or would effect your gameplay. But hey...whatever works.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Apparently I'm a bit of a radical these days.
But I come from a time where your reputation and social connections were the ONLY way to get groups.
If it takes time and effort to form a group, then people are more likely to "behave" themselves in the group because they're afraid of being kicked.
If you create a lounge type LFD tool, then it takes the personal time/investment out of it. If you can quit a group and get into another one shortly after, there's no incentive to act unselfishly.
LDF destroys the community. I'm certain that WoW was a better game and a better community in Vanilla when people knew the best players on the server and where reputation mattered.
LFD is the first step towards getting things like paid name changes, paid server transfers, etc. Why does this matter? Because you can ninja loot, change your name and change server. If you keep the game as is, it matters how you conduct yourself on the server. Reputation matters.
I didn't gloss over it I just didn't answer every point to your post. I'm in game at the moment.
As far as having refined mechanics, this is probably personal taste. I only believe in a lfg tool if it flags you for certain quests. I don't believe in a lfg tool that automatically puts together a group and then ports you to a particular spot.
and "yes" I know you didn't say that but I'm just being clear on my ideas about a lfg tool.
As far as your other point nar shaddar just isn't conducive for groups because I don't think anyone wants to be there. Pity that. It "looks" good but It's sort of a pain to be there so I think people are rushing through as quickly as possible.
Tatooine seems to be very heavy on groups.
So are you in a guild?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Really is astounding to me that you would want it to reach a point where it is effecting subs or retention beforehand. I'll say it again. Why is being reactive somehow better than proactive? What possible drawbacks are there to them refining their mechanics or adding additional ones now even if it is the minority at this point? Which for the record neither of us now how large or small it is at this point.
I mean really. How would them doing this outside of an lfd effect you or anyone elses gameplay that isn't having problems? So what is the real issue here? So what if you and Sovrath aren't experiencing this? Some are and why not add some features to assist them or less populated servers in general?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Rest be assured, there will probably be LFD tool added to the game in the future. It makes sense to not have it during the first few months of launch. But wait until the game loses the usual % of subscribers after the first month, and however many for whatever else reasons.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
I mean really. How would them doing this outside of an lfd effect you or anyone elses gameplay that isn't having problems? So what is the real issue here? So what if you and Sovrath aren't experiencing this? Some are and why not add some features to assist them or less populated servers in general?
It doesn't have to affect the subs or retention for it to be an issue. All that has to happen is for a measurable number of people to stop doing the group content. Bioware wants people to do that group content, whether it affects subs or not. That's why they put the content in there. That's why Blizzard put their LFD tool in place. People weren't doing the group content.
I don't have anything in particular against a LFD tool. I don't have anything in particular against the LFG spam in general chat either. A LFG just doesn't appear to be something necessary for SWToR right now (to me).
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have already said several times in my posts that I am not referring to an lfd mechanic. Wouldn't be the end of the world to me if they were to add one, but I don't think they have to incorporate something so drastic. Something like DDO has would be nice. Or one that does a search that you queue up for and then notified you when you ahve a full group would be cool. Then give you an option to join and simply be grouped. No porting. No autoquesting. You would have to have the quest to queue for it and still travel to the locale. Or whatever other ideas they may come up with on their own.
I am not in a guild. I actually enjoy pugs personally.
...and again while this has been a problem for me I have seen it affecting others a lot more due to their class selection and in the forums in general. I would rather they remedy the situation now before it becomes worse and reaches a level that it has in other games and then have to run around madly trying to incorporate tools like these.
So far it has only caused me to drop one quest - Jawa's Concern - because I could not find a group for it after three days of trying. The rest have either been short waits or rather long ones but I have been able to accomplish it.
Far as planets go from Nar Shaddar on it appears to be getting gradually worse. Not sure if it is because people are becoming more spread out or what. You got me for the reason.
Frankly, even if this wasn't affecting me at all I would still be a proponent for this system seeing some love and revamping. I have always backed issues in a game even if it doesn't effect me personally if it is a game I plan on playing for any extended length of time because far as I'm concerned the more content players across the board then the healthier the game is overall. Which benefits me indirectly assuming the company will put that much more effort in supporting the game as a whole.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
...and you know what their solution will be at that point? They'll end up nerfing the uninstanced quests to either solo or 2 mans and adding an lfd feature which is the main thing those against this altogether don't want.
The same fucking thing they do in every other game when this becomes a widespread problem. Not sure why you guys would want it to reach that point either.
Not to mention it probably will effect retention and subs in the short term if people are trying to complete group quests and are simply unable to on a regular basis. Why put up with the frustration? These games are supposed to be for entertainment not to get frustrated.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The same fucking thing they do in every other game when this becomes a widespread problem. Not sure why you guys would want it to reach that point either.
Not to mention it probably will effect retention and subs in the short term if people are trying to complete group quests and are simply unable to on a regualr basis. Why put up with the frustration? These games are supposed to be for entertainment not to get frustrated.
We don't know what they're going to do. They don't need to nerf the group content because it's not necessary for the leveling process. You can skip all of it and have enough XP to complete your class story. They don't need to add a LFG tool either...they might decide that nerfing content is better (I don't).
That said, they're only going to do something to address the issue once it becomes an issue based on their metrics, not on people posting in the forums.
I think it's far more likely that they put in some sort of LFG tool. I think overall, people would prefer a LFG tool to nerfed content. Bioware won't want to mimic what WoW (or what D&D did), they'll want to do something that is uniquely 'Star Wars'. It won't be as convenient as WoW, but it'll be slicker than D&D's tool; so somewhere between the two. Meh, I guess we'll see soon enough.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's hard for me to argue against something that, while I think it's unecessary, isn't something I would use but that others might find useful.
To that end, though I have always thought a tool that allows people to flag the quests they require would actually be a good thing. Where I think the issue arises is that auto-queuing takes a bit of the "social" out of these games and turns them into an "everyone is soloing in a group" game.
And I'm usually a soloer!
You see, though some people think that solo content is the bane of these games, that is completley not true at all. They say this because they can't understand that there are more ways to be social than grouping. However, now create a tool that curtails the social part of grouping and things start becoming more dicey.
Of course some of this is up to the player but I could easiy imagine using such a tool and never having to speak with a person again. I think that is the real backlash here.
Part of us being social creatures is having a sort of ritual to easy ourselves into social situations. I said something similar in the Vanguard forum but people generally like to be social on their own terms and part of that are proper introductions and "sussing out" other people.
We do it every day. We introduce ourselves, we find common ground and we decide who we want to associate with.
Auto anything in a game messes with this. Now, that doesn't mean it destroys it. But I think the threat to some is that it's just one more rung on the ladder of solo lobby games. It can take away from community without even meaning to do this.
There was a time when one's repuation meant something. Where how far you got in a game depended on who you associated with and their goals. Both good and bad.
But auto assigning people sort of undercuts this. Or at least, without meaning to do this, it hampers the general rituals we have for interacting. Does that mean that if people get thrown together they won't interact? Not necessarily. But knowing how people are I can see it taking the place of getting to know others and just throwing them together based on stats.
So once again, I dont' think such a thing is needed but I can't argue against it because obviously people want this thing. I can argue that it isn't needed if one were truly proactive and one took the time to meet people and form soical groups.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
thank you.. not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to realize.....
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
exactly I don't know why people think magically people will be better quality because they spent the extra time mindlessly spamming LFG in gneral chat.. Maybe people are spoiled with rift and wows LFG system but in all reality we are playing very very solo friendly games you need more incentives to group with people or put in a system that allows easier grouping.
I really don't get why people defend the point of not having a similar system to Rift just not cross server it will increase the number of chances you get to play in a flashpoint it will lessen the time spent looking for group and allows people who don't have the luxury of a large guild or massive amount of time looking for a group. It's a win win and would only help the game.. All my complaints I bring up about the game I feel are ways that will help it and improve retention keeping more players in the long run if not I would'nt even bring these things up
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
i think everyone has no idea what they are talking about if you think I HATE this game.. If I did I would not play at all I would not post here, I would not waist my time trying to come up with ways I think would help with game
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I hate it as a Republic player because I cannot find groups for lower level stuff.
Put a LFG tool in the game.
It's called negative reinforcement. They want you to make and group with in-game friends. In WoW you can get to level 50, playing all the instances without talking to anyone. You can do the same thing in TOR, but it's much more difficult. What would be easier would to find a group of like minded players, and group with them when you log on.
To be fair, community is not important in a themepark MMO apart from the social aspect (i.e. Guilds). LFG tools are exactly what the themepark model is all about. Queues for Warzones, queues for Operations, and so on.
Everything in a themepark MMO is handled in small designated boxes anyway. You want to level from 1 to 10, go to Box A, now go to Box B, you want an instance, yes, that's in Box I-1 through I-4 for your level, later Boxes I-5 all the way to I-8 will open up as well.
It's the nature of this type of games.
This is true, but only partially and the part that you are not mentioning is the "longest" part of the game for most people. Endgame. Themeparks do designate where you should be and for how long (for the most part), but where the community really shines is in the endgame. Heck, even the last 10 levels or so tend to have a much more active community than the lower levels most of the time since a lot of people start to really slow down the leveling there.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Riiight Danny because they all need to do what the devs got paid to do but failed to put into the game. There's only one thing wrong with his server and it's the same as every other server. they don't have even a simple LOTRO LFG system. LOTRO did go to a more WoW style however when i mention lotro i mean the one that only matched you up with people, it didn't teleport you or autogroup you it simply showed you who was available and what they wanted.
Sad when a game doesn't deliver right?
LFG is there to help the players find groups more easily. If you haven't noticed yet, this game is incredibly casual friendly; it's idiotic to withhold such an important tool. Therefore, I believe they didn't do it simply because (A) Technology (B) Costs. or (C) Lack of time. There's absolutely no excuse for a game directed at this target audience and the funding that went into it to forget the LFG tool.
Lastly, don't the Battlegrounds find battles for you? OHHH WAIT! Aren't we hurting the communities there TOO!? *rolleyes*
[mod edit]