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Give me 1 thing. that SWTOR Does 100% diffrent or new from any mmorpg every made

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Comments

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    Eve Online is the most innotive MMO on the market. It breaks from the norm which is WoW clone based games. It has the best pvp system in place in any MMO game its servers are robust and can host up to 50k people all on at the same time without queues or slow down.  No other MMO can do this or has done this.

    SWTOR on pre-release had wait times to get logged in of over 1 to 2 hours on some servers.

    Eve Online has a player run market and everything you see on it 95% of it can be made by other players. No level caps either and you train skills in real time. Even now as I write this post I am training skills on my characters no other MMO can do this, you hit level 50 , 80 or 100 and then the game stops you from going further. Which is one reason WoW is dying people are tired of starting again from scratch.

    For a MMO to have any life to it it has to be like Ultima Online or Eve Online (a sandbox MMO). SWTOR will be free to play within the next 3 years is my preditction.

    image

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by forumtalker


    Originally posted by Mondo80


    Originally posted by Vato26


    Originally posted by Wicoa

    The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

    Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

    Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

    "Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

    I agree. Though one thing has changed and thats the production costs. Take SWTOR as an extreme example, 80-300 mil is the housenumber i keep hearing. At those costs producing niche MMO that cater to only specific tastes becomes nonviable.

    Imho, the golden days of MMOs are over. You simply can't produce, and keep updating, games at the quality(mostly graphics and sound) people expect these days and expect to make money with anything less than atleast a quartermillion active subs(or the equivalent cashflow in a F2P). Just think about how long it has taken to create a new item in UO, and how long it must take in a game like this. Im no graphics designer, but that much is obvious even to me.

    EvE is really the most "out there" successfull MMO atm, the rest are either in maintenance mode, going/went F2P or very close WoW mirrors. I think Warhammer was the final straw, it had the backing of a big producer(EA), was done by experienced team that had done a similar pvp focused MMO before and was built on a generally well liked franchise among gamers. It should have been a success, it wasn't though and now everyone is scared of touching the genre with anything but a tried and working formula.

     

    GW2 is really only going as far as it does because its a) the sequel to successful game and b) financially being based on box sales not subscriptions. Not much risk there, getting initial sales never was a problem, even WHO and AOC got plenty of sales/preorders.

    It doesn't matter IF the team building it is experienced, OR if the fanbase behind the franchise is a popular one. If the primary PRODUCER & IP HOLDER tell the developers that they have to do it X way their expertise is going to have LITTLE impact.

    EA told Mythic that they wanted to go a more "traditional" WoW-style in order to get BIG monetary returns. THEN, GamesWorkshop came over and told them to nix their THREE realm idea that Mythic devs initially wanted to go, but GamesWorkshop shot that down due to "Lore Limitations". Even though it would have been EASY to create a 3-realm system using the lore of Warhammer.

     

    It's ALWAYS about money, and when the company seeks money INSTEAD of a quality product the money runs away! Anyone ever heard the phase "Build it, and they will come..."?! Publishers (EA, SOE, etc etc) want MONEEEYYY, but don't realize that a focused quality product will get them what they want, a LOT of money!

     

    HOWEVER, I should point out that SOE has recently remedied this ignorant position in their development plans as PlanetSide 2 is looking more and more like a quality product rather than a money grab.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • DracillDracill Miami, FLPosts: 158Member
    It's a MMORPG and I'm having fun playing it without worry about any 'imaginary" carrot.

    That's absolutely NEW for me. Can you say the same about your MMO?
  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by forumtalker

    Originally posted by Mondo80

    Originally posted by Vato26

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

    Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

    Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

    "Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

    I agree. Though one thing has changed and thats the production costs. Take SWTOR as an extreme example, 80-300 mil is the housenumber i keep hearing. At those costs producing niche MMO that cater to only specific tastes becomes nonviable.

    Imho, the golden days of MMOs are over. You simply can't produce, and keep updating, games at the quality(mostly graphics and sound) people expect these days and expect to make money with anything less than atleast a quartermillion active subs(or the equivalent cashflow in a F2P). Just think about how long it has taken to create a new item in UO, and how long it must take in a game like this. Im no graphics designer, but that much is obvious even to me.

    EvE is really the most "out there" successfull MMO atm, the rest are either in maintenance mode, going/went F2P or very close WoW mirrors. I think Warhammer was the final straw, it had the backing of a big producer(EA), was done by experienced team that had done a similar pvp focused MMO before and was built on a generally well liked franchise among gamers. It should have been a success, it wasn't though and now everyone is scared of touching the genre with anything but a tried and working formula.

     

    GW2 is really only going as far as it does because its a) the sequel to successful game and b) financially being based on box sales not subscriptions. Not much risk there, getting initial sales never was a problem, even WHO and AOC got plenty of sales/preorders.

    I agree with most you have said, except for the numbers on revenue necessary to keep/maintain/continued development of a mmorpg. Its not that i can say the oposite, but i still cant find a trustworthy source with info on that subject. I have read many opinions that stand on both sides of the line, but still no real case study on that.

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    1. full VO

    2. Companion system

    3. Space battles as mini solo game

     

    Goodbye

  • StruggsStruggs Cincinnati, OHPosts: 205Member


    Originally posted by Dracill
    It's a MMORPG and I'm having fun playing it without worry about any 'imaginary" carrot.That's absolutely NEW for me. Can you say the same about your MMO?

    That just means your a fanboi and blind to what the game really is ;).

    I am having a blast as well. In the end that is all that matters. It's been a long time since I had this much fun in an MMO.

    The only thing that was about as fun was base busting in SWG. The pvp and finding vulnerable bases that is the kind of fun I don't know if I will ever get back.

    imageimage

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common

    The OP presents an extreme request, as nothing in this world is 100% different from something else. You can go to a 5 star steakhouse restaurant, millions invested, and not find anything 100% different from any other steakhouse ever made. And why is that? Because companies have figured out what people like, and will repeat it over and over again until people decide they don't like it. If you think there's any game that does something 100% different from any mmo EVER made, you'll be sorely dissappointed.

    Now if you change your request to something more reasonable, like find 1 thing TOR does significantly different from every other AAA MMO, then you've got yourself a reasonable challenge. Until then, this thread is completely pointless.

     

  • Vato26Vato26 BFE, MOPosts: 3,930Member

    Originally posted by Mari2k

    1. full VO  VO's are in many other MMORPGs.

    2. Companion system  Gods & Heroes, Guild Wars, Star Trek Online just to name a few MMORPGS that also have companions (and multiple ones at a time at that)

    3. Space battles as mini solo game  SWG already did it.

     

    Goodbye

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    The use of companions to craft and run missions is, to my knowledge, new to the genre.

    EvE has time based "crafting foreman vs. crafter" but not companions or sending them on missions.

    I can't think of any MMO that has companions you can send on missions to gather materials/items.

     

    A MMO is the sum of its parts.

    You can't say "Simpsons' did it" on Companions because Guild Wars kind of has them, the implementation is different.

    You can't say "Simpsons' did it" on the VO system just because AOC launched with SOME VO at the beginning, the implementation in TOR is broader and certainly more extensive.

    You can't say "Simpsons' did it" on the multiplayer conversations and dark/light systems because AoC implemented something kind of similar AFTER TOR was announced and everyone knew they'd be doing this, AoC stole it from TOR before TOR was even released.

    I mean, we all know what the OP was trying to accomplish, and all failure aside, every new MMORPG (for the most part) brings something new to the table simply because of the way things are implemented and because all systems in a MMO are interrelated and dependant upon each other.

    RIFT may have "the same" talent trees as WoW or TOR or a few other MMORPGs, but the way they implemented them with the free-form soul matching and I think 4 possbile saved specs is new and 100% different than the WoW/TOR implementation.

    But, as such, Rift only has 4 "classes" that are mirrored between the factions like TOR has, but one cannot say they are similar any more then they can say they are truly different.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    OP's post was about innovation, not improvement on an idea or system already in existance. People are getting off track. There is nothing innovative about someone else's idea. need an example? Fine, Windows. There you go.

    That is really, really, really really funny. You know why? Because the game you're in love with, GW2... we had this same debate. Where "innovations" of gw2 were posted and people responded naming games that had done everything prior. The direct response was that "innovations" didn't have to be "new" they just had to be a new take, or anet's take on them, or improving on them. The people of the gw2 fanbase actually argued with me that an "innovation" didn't have to be something new. It could be something improved upon...LOL

     

    Hang on, I'll try to find the post.  Found it: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/333764/page/7

     

    ROFL - Double standards are my favorite. 

  • Vato26Vato26 BFE, MOPosts: 3,930Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    The use of companions to craft and run missions is, to my knowledge, new to the genre.

    EvE has time based "crafting foreman vs. crafter" but not companions or sending them on missions.

    I can't think of any MMO that has companions you can send on missions to gather materials/items.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4674771

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Companions and using companions for crafting but the companion system fails to no end. It is just too boring and unappealing in a mmo. I think the system works better in a single player rpg.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Vato26

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    The use of companions to craft and run missions is, to my knowledge, new to the genre.

    EvE has time based "crafting foreman vs. crafter" but not companions or sending them on missions.

    I can't think of any MMO that has companions you can send on missions to gather materials/items.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4674771

    Who the F cares about what Grand Fantasia does?

    I've never even HEARD of that game.

    I mean, I stand corrected but seriously? OP's intentions were obvious, didn't actually care if anything we new or different in TOR just another pointless troll/flame thread.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Mephster

    Companions and using companions for crafting but the companion system fails to no end. It is just too boring and unappealing in a mmo. I think the system works better in a single player rpg.

    I'd rather continue adventuring, pvp'ing, and generally "playing" the game then sit in my ship for hours crafting.

    As you are entitled to your opinion, of course, you are not wrong but saying the system "fails to no end" is a bit drastic don't you think?

     

  • asmadeousasmadeous Addison, ILPosts: 70Member

    Originally posted by Nykyrian

    Curious, and i'm talking about a broad veiw i'm not looking for little things like light sabers i mean something completely new... that has never been done or created before.  And before u say voice over quests derp, every mmorpg now a days has a story   

    Go?.

     

    Well, I did hear a lot of good about Hutt-ball . .


     

    image

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Mephster

    Companions and using companions for crafting but the companion system fails to no end. It is just too boring and unappealing in a mmo. I think the system works better in a single player rpg.

    I'd rather continue adventuring, pvp'ing, and generally "playing" the game then sit in my ship for hours crafting.

    As you are entitled to your opinion, of course, you are not wrong but saying the system "fails to no end" is a bit drastic don't you think?

     

    I agree, also being able to send out companions while you are in a warfront, pvp etc is awesome.  No grind for materials even though you can pick them up along the way.  I lol at these posts and the talk about "boring grinds" which materials are a main grind yet when a system is implemented to take away this grind it's still considered boring by some.

    After reading the SWTOR forum, I'm starting to think that a large % of people think an MMO is sitting in a capital city waiting on a LFG queue spamming /2 with anal remarks.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nykyrian

    Curious, and i'm talking about a broad veiw i'm not looking for little things like light sabers i mean something completely new... that has never been done or created before.  And before u say voice over quests derp, every mmorpg now a days has a story   

    Go?.

    No fishing.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by forumtalker

    After reading the SWTOR forum, I'm starting to think that a large % of people think an MMO is sitting in a capital city waiting on a LFG queue spamming /2 with anal remarks.

    I shouldn't laugh at this statement, but by God you are probably right.

    Actually getting out into the open world and going on adventures is such a foreign concept to some...

    It's like they want to spend 99% of their time grinding and AFK queue popping in a central social hub.

    *edit*

    OMG I just thought - does this make GW2 the anti-MMO?

    It's hillarious how many "new generation" MMO players hate other people in "their" games.

  • KnightFire19KnightFire19 Oakville, ONPosts: 7Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

     

    Additionally, everyone I know who was "Raving" about SWTOR has now quit. So I'm not sure how well SWTOR will do by June.

    To the other side of that my friends and I have been very excited to this game to launch and have enjoyed every minute.  Most of us have 6 month subscriptions.

    I know a lot of people go by what's said on the SWTOR forums as an indication of like or dislike but I wouldn't do that.  Most of the people I game with never visit forums because they are too busy with real life and then actually playing when they get the chance and visiting forums would take away from that time.  This has also been the case for a lot of people I've met playing in game.

    Only time will tell I guess but I personally think this game will be fine come June.

  • Professor78Professor78 TamworthPosts: 588Member

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    100% different is very difficult to say but there's plenty of things it does differently from most other mmorpgs

    - Companions: not only fighting for you but having a story and a voice, crafting for you, selling your grey items, having an affection stat, able to be decked out in any gear of the right kind, etc. i.e. the most fleshed out companion system in a mmorpg I ever played. (Even though I disliked the idea of needing to use companions before I played SWTOR I can only admit that it really works and is a very fun aspect).

    Seems relatively new, but serveral cheap MMO's have vast Pet/Companion interaction from the masses there are, destiny online, ragnarok, did rappelz? cant remember. But nothing is a complete as the SWTOR one.

    - Itemization: gear inheriting stats from mods rather than fixed parameters (in the case of modable items) allows for a lot of customization and doesn't render your customizable gear obsolete.

    In other games its like set bonuses given from another changelable item?, most recent example in RIFT having several pieces of gear and being able to use numerous changeable crystals that each give different stats? I would say SWTOR is lacking in custimization at the moment from what I can tell to most MMO's.

    - Crafting and re-engineering; to discover higher tiered versions of those recipes as well as having procs on individual crafting products adds a lot of depth and specialization to crafting.

    EQ2 had several versions of the same item, tiered, probably EQ1 also. And proccing ect.

    - The extent of voice over content and story: biggest entertainment product ever made with this many lines of VO: no other mmorpg so far, not even movies, even comes close to that.

    Agree nothing to this extent in other games - this is why its the games biggest selling point, and to lots an annoyance. AOC, Aoin has some decent story and VO's - but normally just for the main quest lines. You don;t subscribe to blu-rays you buy do you?

    - Exploring for stat increases: datacrons & matrix cubes. And how some of them are hidden is simply brilliant world design.

    EQ2 and  RIFT massive amounts and collection/set rewards, achievements ect. bound to loads more that have this but wana go for a bath!

    - A space shooter minigame / alternative to fishing :P

    Didnt want o mention RIFT again but it has puzzles you have to discover and solve around the world.

    - Vast amount of pve content; not only flashpoints (normal, hard mode and nightmare mode), bonus quests, dailies, EXTENSIVE individual class quest lines, operations but also hundreds of heroic quests; fun, mini dungeons intended for multiple players out in the worlds.

    Sorry didnt want to do it again, but RIFT is the most comparible as its the most recent release and I very much doubt it comes anywhere near.

    The last one might be the least outstanding compared to other games but there have been so many releases in the past years where the content simply wasn't enough. SWTOR is stepping up to that (even though it needs more and better fleshed out pvp content).

    Thank you Dark, you took the words out of my mouth with the companions and crafting. This is new. I've played every god damn MMO since Ultima and Eq1 and I've never seen a comparable companion or crafting system. 

     

    {mod edit}

    Like you said its hard to say if something really is different, it will have ties to some other game somewhere. But for apart from large VO and a more in depth pet system its not alot different from others compared to the several times more money they have invested in it, they must have run out when they came to getting the graphics half decent!

    Core i7(d0)on Foxconn Bloodrage, 6gb Tri DDR3,GTX 680, 120gb OCZ Vertex 2 SSD, 640gb Caviar Black, Windows 7, HAF 932 case, 24" Full HD Dell, Logitech G19, Rat 9, 50mb BB.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by forumtalker



    After reading the SWTOR forum, I'm starting to think that a large % of people think an MMO is sitting in a capital city waiting on a LFG queue spamming /2 with anal remarks.

    I shouldn't laugh at this statement, but by God you are probably right.

    Actually getting out into the open world and going on adventures is such a foreign concept to some...

    It's like they want to spend 99% of their time grinding and AFK queue popping in a central social hub.

    *edit*

    OMG I just thought - does this make GW2 the anti-MMO?

    It's hillarious how many "new generation" MMO players hate other people in "their" games.

    It cuts both way imho. Currently we have:

    1. Automatic LFG Systems like WoW, sometimes even over several servers.

    2. Regional LFG spam in more or less apropiate channels.

    3. LFG spam in some kind of Hub that everyone is at.

     

    I dislike all of them for various reasons, there should be a middleway in the form of an actually usable manual groupfinding tool. Some way to easily flag yourself so that others know your are looking for content xy. The current textcomment in a /who list many games have are obviously not enough, probably has to involve some extra rewards so people actually use it and it should have a vastly improved UI.

    Kinda like how the automatic LFG tools work from an interface standpoint, you choose your role, checkbox wether you know the instance and are comfortable leading it etc. The whole thing sorted by instance level ranges, and maybe automatically placeing people interested in the same instance into a common chatroom(chatrooms are another thing most MMO do not have, they are awesome in eve, work just like IRC and you have your own tab for each in your chat window).

  • Vato26Vato26 BFE, MOPosts: 3,930Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Vato26


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    The use of companions to craft and run missions is, to my knowledge, new to the genre.

    EvE has time based "crafting foreman vs. crafter" but not companions or sending them on missions.

    I can't think of any MMO that has companions you can send on missions to gather materials/items.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4674771

    Who the F cares about what Grand Fantasia does?

    I've never even HEARD of that game.

    I mean, I stand corrected but seriously? OP's intentions were obvious, didn't actually care if anything we new or different in TOR just another pointless troll/flame thread.

    I was just pointing out that you were wrong in your statement.

  • melton80melton80 staunton, ILPosts: 54Member

     There is nothing new, everything is just a different version of another games feature and it always will be, there is nothing really NEW you can add to games, the only thing you can do is tweak a feature nowadays and SWTOR does what all games have been doing and can do, i am not a huge SW fan and i don't play the game anymore, but if someone wants to play the game i tell them to go for it and decide for yourself.  Even if  a game that only has 1 person playing it has a feature before SWTOR came out with it, that makes it not 100% different, that is  impossible in todays gaming. Like i said just play it for yourself if you are interested and only take other peoples comments with a grain of sand cause it is THEIR opinion not yours.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Nykyrian

    Curious, and i'm talking about a broad veiw i'm not looking for little things like light sabers i mean something completely new... that has never been done or created before.  And before u say voice over quests derp, every mmorpg now a days has a story   

    Go?.

    Just to reinforce the point that Nykyrian is making.

     

    Nyk is talking about the tired argument that SWTOR does "Fully Voiced Questing". Well, MOST modern MMORPGs do that now in their main storylines so it's nothing new. The only thing SWTOR did was simply "extend" how much voiced questing is done in their game. NOTHING NEW!

     

     

    However Nykyrian, I'd like to point out that NO ONE has ever claimed that SWTOR does anything new. It's just a rehersed fully voiced version of WoW set in the StarWars universe. NOTHING new, and has NEVER been claimed to be new.

     

    Additionally, everyone I know who was "Raving" about SWTOR has now quit. So I'm not sure how well SWTOR will do by June.

    OK, so this is almost exactly the same as saying GW2's dynamic events are nothing new, they are just an extension of an existing idea.

    All they have done is make 1 quest lead onto another quest automatically without the need to talk to an NPC. Nothing innovative right? Quests have been done before by other MMOs, GW2 just improves it.

    Now, GW2s dynamic quest system is innovative and new. Im just trying to point out the lengths some people will go to to prove that they are "right" by moving the goalposts and distorting the truth

    Also, no one has ever said that SWTOR is doing anything new and innovative. BW's mission has always been to take the familiar MMO and make it better, more polished and more story focused. The only people that seem to have a problem with this are those that have been hating on the game for ages and were never going to play it anyway. The remaining millions of us are enjoying the game.

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by Professor78

    Originally posted by Praetalus


    Originally posted by DarkPony

     

    - Crafting and re-engineering; to discover higher tiered versions of those recipes as well as having procs on individual crafting products adds a lot of depth and specialization to crafting.

    EQ2 had several versions of the same item, tiered, probably EQ1 also. And proccing ect.

    - Exploring for stat increases: datacrons & matrix cubes. And how some of them are hidden is simply brilliant world design.

    EQ2 and  RIFT massive amounts and collection/set rewards, achievements ect. bound to loads more that have this but wana go for a bath!

    Thank you Dark, you took the words out of my mouth with the companions and crafting. This is new. I've played every god damn MMO since Ultima and Eq1 and I've never seen a comparable companion or crafting system. 

     

    {mod edit}

    Like you said its hard to say if something really is different, it will have ties to some other game somewhere. But for apart from large VO and a more in depth pet system its not alot different from others compared to the several times more money they have invested in it, they must have run out when they came to getting the graphics half decent!

    EQ2 definitely does not have the same crafting / reverse engineering system, or even anything remotely like it. It has a 'transmuting' which is basically just a copy of WoWs enchanting - which is not even close to the SWTOR system. The 'higher tiers' are just the difference between normal crafting and mastercrafting, based entirely on harvesting a rare component from a world node. The advanced recipes are drops, not learnt from reverse engineering products you can already make.

    Also the EQ2 shiny system doesnt encourage exploration, they are just randomly spread throughout an area. They also do nothing for character progression and are mostly fluff house items or leveling gear.

This discussion has been closed.