Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

I miss olfschool PvE

13

Comments

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,764Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dewm

    and your "in reality, all peopel care about is return on investment.." so what you are saying is every single person out there that says "Oh I didn't like old games because it took me 3 hours to party, and I don't have for that." is full of it?

    They "aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments"? 

    Pretty much what you are saying to me is...

    WoW + 10milliion players = fun

    McDonalds models doesn't work because time investment has nothing to do with a game popularity....

    So your saying a player base has nothing to do with time investment... So IF someone made a game that took 4 hours to find a party, but it was "as much fun as WoW" it would still have 10million subs?

    You leaves so many flaws in your argument I don't even know were to start...

    This is very simple: if a game requires more time of players without providing more fun, players perceive the game as "less fun".

    To use your version of the restaurant analogy, large-timesink MMORPGs are a $60 gourmet steak burger -- the exact same steak burger you can get for $12 in WOW.

    If doing anything (finding a party or whatever) in an MMORPG arbitrarily takes more time in one game -- without being considerably more fun -- that game is just outright a worse game.

    This is why the players complaining about the "race to endgame" make no sense.  They seem to be asking for leveling times to arbitrarily be increased without any other improvements -- as if the game would magically be more fun if all a developer did was make it take 5x as long to level.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • melton80melton80 staunton, ILPosts: 54Member

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm





    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.






    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?






    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

     



     People need to actually understand why WoW has so many people, the main reason WoW has so many Subs is cause it is EASY, very easy really, and anyone can play it so they have a big player pool, 5 year olds could play WoW. My 7 year old nephew and his friends play WoW end-game on a 6 year old computer without any lag, and when i played i could raid with a couple add-ons and 2 macros while watching TV and eating and still be top 3 dps.  That is the point of missing old school play, you use to achieve something when you leveled up or killed a boss, now it is just instant gratification, in WoW you don't even need a skilled raid to kill end-game bosses, you can just throw together a bunch of noobs in town you never seen before and kill raid bosses, Wow and new games like it are no-skill required anymore, its all about instant gratification nowadays. EQ is one of the greatest games i ever played and would still be playing if i didn't retire from it 5 years ago and mis so many expansions.

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member

    Originally posted by Disdena

    I agree with the OP. If the combat is fun, I would much rather spend 2 hours of constant combat in a group—even fighting exactly the same enemies from the same camp over and over—rather than be shuttled here and there among quest hubs to do 3 minutes of fighting before being ushered on to the next enemy type. And if the combat isn't particularly fun, I'd still rather be in a static stationary camp because it's conducive to social interaction. I do hope that at some point a retro game like that comes along.

    I also agree with the OP and a lot of other posts. I cant stand being a little errand boy run around and do quests in zone A, then get sent to zoneB,C,D etc etc. I loved XI got into a group go do whatever you wanted to. theres no freedom of choice anymore. I just dont find being a little gopher fun in my mmo's. I think my head will explode in a firey rage if I have to deliver 1 more letter across town, or go kill 10 of "X" or gather 15 of "Y"

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • sazabisazabi VilniusPosts: 389Member

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    i think what you mean is that when you go to town you have to consider what quests others have, since they are the main source of experience...

    the problem with that is that there are so many variables in this.

    people are sort of discouraged to grind mobs even if that means just partying along with your friends that didnt do 10 quests that you did even tho they are like only 1 level lower.

    early level quests? not many people are doing them in groups as far as ive seen.

    in world of warcraft for example people would rush to whatever level solo, because simply - there was no benefit to group other than the social aspect. in fact you could level faster solo.

    so basically:

    older mmos: more grindy gameplay which is actually less boring, because your mind process is different : 'i have to find a group'. thus the task becomes the secondary thing (the grind itself), and there is more focus on the primary thing (grouping and socialising). you had to make the 'mmo' part happen., one way or another pretty much.

    new mmos: the task is more important. the reward, the exp. everyone want epic loot, fame and glory. you are not required to play mmo part, so if you dont care you can just ignore it. people are looking forward to epic loot that late game gives them, not the actual new possibilities of multiplayer. even if they want to experience those, by the time they are end game, they will be brainwashed to just want epic loot instead.

     

    so new mmos basically get those very nice grouping tools and such which would have been insanely useful for the older ones.

    however there is this taint called CASUAL SOLO GAMER that makes those great grouping possibilities quite useless.

    the mmo which allows to solo everything, most likely kill a lot of their community building potential.

  • EnoshEnosh SulinciPosts: 140Member

    Originally posted by toddzeI think my head will explode in a firey rage if I have to deliver 1 more letter across town, or go kill 10 of "X" or gather 15 of "Y"

    well you might want to stop playing MMOs then

    or rather stop playing rpgs in general

    try sticking to japanese visual novels

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sepulcher

    Originally posted by Dewm


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm






    Originally posted by dlld

    There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.







    how is it clear?

    I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?







    10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

     

    This old adage that because WoW has 10million players makes it MORE fun then any other game is just stupid. First off I like WoW...its a decent game for what it is. I am not a "wow-hater" BUT having said that....

    Just because McDonalds outsellfs a 5star resterant doesn't make it better food.

    Just because more people play WOW then play Risk, doesn't make Risk not as much fun..

     

    Thats like saying, more people have seen the grandcanyon, then have been to the moon.....does that mean the grandcanyon is a better view? no...deffinitly not.

     

    That comparisson does not work.  So please stop using it.

    The day a McDonalds cheeseburger costs the same price as a steak give me a call.

    You are comparing two things with unequal value.

    Now compare the local restaraunt that has been around for 7 years with the new restaraunt that just opened up.  You only have enough money to go out to eat once a month.  On the one hand you have a restaraunt that has been around for a while, has evolved its menu to fit the demands of the customers and has reliable service and is clean.  Now on the other hand you have a new restaraunt with its new cuisine, but maybe the menu is missing some of those favorites you were hoping for, maybe the waiter is new and gets some of the orders mixed up, and maybe the place isn't as friendly as the old place.

    10 million players have chosen to enjoy the menu that has evolved to fit their tastes, with reliable service, and a well polished place to enjoy it.  They may be eating the same food, but they are enoying it,  have many friends who eat there too that they can sit and have dinner with, and they are comfortable knowing that tomorrow the restaraunt will still be there and still serve their favorites.

    Stop acting like everyone who plays wow is some bottom feeding moron who is being zombified into playing a shitty game because they are hopelessly addicted.

    Risk may suck to many people so it being fun is not definitive.

    Someone may find the view of the Grand Canyon with its many colors, winding waters, and wildlife more appealing than a grey rock floating in a black void with white dots in the sky.

    It is all subjective and your opinion isn't the one in which the world runs itself.

     

    The anaolgy is fine, don't be so narrow minded.     The price of a cheeseburger compared to a steak is irrelevant.    Think of the amount of time you spend eating instead.

     

    So if 10 million people spend 1 hour eating McDonald's per week it doesn't make the food better than 1000 people spending 1 hour dining on a good steak.

     

    WoW player are not bottom feeding morons, but they are spending time playing a game that prides itself on making it as easy as possible, requiring as little effort as possible, as little attention as possible, with as little challenege as possible. 

    It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

     

    In case you forgot:

     

     


    game/gam/


     









    Noun:







    A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.


     


    You should be concerned when "Game" designers announce that to make the game better they will be making Raid encounters easier to defeat and will give out even mkre powerful rewards... 


     


    At some point when the competitive aspects are so muted and  things are so streamlined, so easy and so over rewarding it simply isn't a game any more and instead you should call it   WoW'ing off.


     


     

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,093Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dewm

    Originally posted by Axehilt


    Originally posted by Dewm

     You obviously didnt' read my post. if you take the "McD's" arguement and make the TIME the "currency" then diffrent MMO's charge diffrent prices.

    Example 34: FFXI takes 20 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 3 hours to level...total time: 3.5hrs

    WoW takes, 2 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 10 minutes to level...total time: 22min

     Time = money

    Wow (22min) is cheaper (cost less) then FFXI(3.5hrs)

     More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

    Putting aside the fact that your argument is completely nonsensical, WOW charged me 6 years of time because it was fun and rapidly got me from fun thing A to fun thing B, whereas FFX charged me 30 minutes of time because the UI/controls were terrible and it felt grindy even at the start.  So I guess the actual price being paid is quite a bit higher in WOW.

    In reality, all people care about is return on investment -- invest x time, get y fun.   If the ratio is terrible, players aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments to be had.

    In short, they're only going to "pay" (in time) for the games they perceive as worthwhile.

     

     

    Wanna talk nonsensical argument.... you start posting your own expeirence in a game...so now that we are totaly throwing facts out the window.

     

    I played FFXI for 2.5 years...AND LOVED IT. best MMO I"VE ever played... PERIOD!

     

    WoW...I played for 2 months...burned through 90% of the content and quit...

     

    and your "in reality, all peopel care about is return on investment.." so what you are saying is every single person out there that says "Oh I didn't like old games because it took me 3 hours to party, and I don't have for that." is full of it?

    They "aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments"?

     

     

    Pretty much what you are saying to me is...

    WoW + 10milliion players = fun

    McDonalds models doesn't work because time investment has nothing to do with a game popularity....

     

    So your saying a player base has nothing to do with time investment... So IF someone made a game that took 4 hours to find a party, but it was "as much fun as WoW" it would still have 10million subs?

     

    You leaves so many flaws in your argument I don't even know were to start...

    This sounds more like FFXI was your style of gameplay and a preferance. In your opinion it's the best MMO ever,  though you forget games like WoW have a targeted audiance, just like Aion, AoC, and STO, you can't convince them other wise.

    image

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rutaq

    So if 10 million people spend 1 hour eating McDonald's per week it doesn't make the food better than 1000 people spending 1 hour dining on a good steak.

    Which is why the comparison doesn't work.

    There are so many variables that makes McDonalds a reasonable place to eat for many over other places despite the food not being the best (at least scientifically in health terms) that does not correlate to an mmo vs mmo.

    - Price: rather self explanatory actually this is very contradictory to a comparison to mcdonalds since wow's pricing is the highest in the market while mcdonalds is relatively cheap.

    - Availibility: Virtually all mmo's are available in the same store and/or on the interent there's nothing comparable to driving for two hours to eat at resturant x instead of mcdonalds around the corner in mmo terms.

    - Speed: MMO's have no wait time until you get to partake in the service (specific server queus do not coun't) they are all equal in footing IE instant, not so much for resturants.

    - Food: there's just a slight difference between offering a product that is necessary to live and a specifc form of entertainment very very few people (relative to world population) enjoy.

  • BCuseBCuse San Diego, CAPosts: 140Member

    me too!

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rutaq

    It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

     

     

    From my perspective the 'old school' players act like they are playing chess when in fact they have just been playing way too much tic-tac-toe.  So while they are telling me how they are 'adult' and superior to 'new school' players, all I can think of is that they should probably be kept away from sharp objects and I should probably tell their parents.

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by kishe

    Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

    Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

     

     

     

    I'll agree with you for sure.

    Also, not to be neglected are the social elements open world dungeons brought to the table.

    I've had the most memorable experiences and social interactions in games where I was NOT dragged along by the nose from task hub to task hub but was allowed to advance through levels by, get this, just going out and experiencing the game world.

    It never once felt like a 'grind' to me as the interaction of other players adds a lot of dynamics that are not present in a linear repetative one-way mini instance dungeon. Task hubs full of click 10 vase chores feels like a grind compared to pushing your group to its limits as you decend deeper and deeper into a dangerous, risk filled dungeon. And the rewards were sweeter as well.

    How long since that room was cleared? Is it safe to pull or will we get re-pops? Which way should we go/which named should we check on? That coupled with the risk and difficulty level that was present before WoW nerfed MMOs made for some edge of your seat encounters that just hasn't been emulated in linear one-way instances no matter how much 'story' the developers try to shoehorn in to my adventures.

    None of their stories could possibly rival those of my friends and I that we still recall a decade later.

    The people that post comments like 'You can go grind mobs in (insert themepark clone)' clearly haven't experienced what gaming in a world without being dragged along the same stale path everyone else is on can be and have been. All of the happy accidents and unintended creative uses of abilities made for much better action as well in my opinion (Monk/SK FD pulling, Kiting, parking etc). These elements have all been squashed now to give developers more control over how we experience their content, singlehandedly removing any ability to approach encounters in creative ways. There is ONE waythe script will play out now. There is ONE tactic to beat the boss/raid encounter. Yawn. I liked when we were allowed to creatively approach situations rather than memorise some script from youtube.

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torik

    Originally posted by rutaq

    It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

     

     

    From my perspective the 'old school' players act like they are playing chess when in fact they have just been playing way too much tic-tac-toe.  So while they are telling me how they are 'adult' and superior to 'new school' players, all I can think of is that they should probably be kept away from sharp objects and I should probably tell their parents.

    I can understand where you are coming from,

        I think it is because over the last 6 years the MMO genre has been pushing out nothing other than tic-tac-toe to try to make as much money as possible off the masses and the chess players are stuck with no where to play chess.  The Devs promise meaningful challenging content but mostly it never arrives or is "balanced" to appease the cry of the tic-tac-toe players when they can't easily win.

     

      Looking back at the birth of MMOs it is hard to argue that the quests in the original EQ didn't required much more effort and time to complete.  There were no floating icons,  mini maps, gps like arrows pointing your way,  no shading on the map to show exactly where to go, no glowy effect on the tiems to show you exactly where to click.   You read the quest text, puzzled through it and did lots of searching and kill monsters for faction.

      Raid content was somthing that required extraordinary skill to recruit, motivate and manage a group of 40+ people for just a chance to challenge the content and you didn't get rewards for losing.   Raiding was an achievement, not something that every average player could do while watching TV, texting on their phone and rolling their face across the keyboard.   Surprisingly most players didn't defeat all Raid bosses, they didn't have all the perfect gear for thier character, the game didn't need a treadmil of new Raid gear to grind because it could take years to complete the challenge of getting your first set, if ever.

     

     Sure, the old school game didn't have 10+ million subscribers, that is because there weren't 10+ million players that could meet the challenge, the time commitment, coordiination and group management skills needed to be successful.

    So you may feel like the Old Timers have a superior atittude but in many cases they are experienced, patient, competitive players that chuckle at the insignificant challenges that current MMOs offer and luckily have found forums like MMORPG to talk about the state of MMOs and the easy mode money grab they have become.

     

     

  • ReborncRebornc MunichPosts: 37Member

    I also find myself missing the good old xpgrind in a group i had in daoc.

    Sure it was fun back then. But on the other hand i also remember how i enjoyed not having to do this anymore in wow :P

    Now its my opinion that neither grinding a single spot nor questing all the time is a good solution. And if you mix both kinds with each other it gets even worse. All new developers need is a total new design of progress in MMOs. And there are serveral good solutions a competent team could do.

    Quests should be things a player is doing while he is exploring the world. Naturally and not forced by some questhubs. Sure those could still exist but there should be a lot of other stuff.

    For example: You are a lonely Hero walking around and find a castle full of orcs. If you try to discover that castle you could get several things out of there.  If you find the little treasure in the highest tower of that castle? You get XP for it. If you free some prisoners in the dungeon of the castle -> XP

    How you manage those things should be your style. Stealth, brutal force, teleport whatever you want. You should just lvl by playing and not play to lvl.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by yewsef

     

    Don't we all miss that OP?

     

    We being the people who tried both worlds. One being the Quest Driven content which you explained (going back to town taking 12 quests doing boring errands...etc) and the other style of being free doing whatever we want in the world (whether crawling a dungeon or grinding a spot).

     

    Having tried both... I can tell you that I am SURE I find the freedom choice REGARDLESS of how people might call it (grinding) it was WAY more fun than soloing quests running 50% of your time from point A to B to C just because THEY want you to.

     

    I'd rather decide where to go... find a group to do whatever we decide to do in that place.

     

    Your example brings back beautiful memories from EverQuest even doing repetative XP grinds it was way more fun than running all the time collecting mushroom, alone. I am definite that a lot of other people miss those good old days.

     

    You do NOT speak for all of us. I tried both too and find that the old EQ world is overwhelming boring, repetitive and not a very good game, compared to modern MMOs.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Dewm
    More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

    I have to ask this... How do *you* know what these other players define as fun? Your whole argument is based on the assumption that every (or nearly every) WoW player HATES the game and has absolutely no fun whatsoever playing it. That all these other factors pulled from wherever you are pulling them from are truly irrelevant. You are not addressing whether or not players find playing WoW fun. This is not about what anyone thinks is better.

    I am saying that because players keep paying the sub fees, they must be having fun. I could be wrong, as there are masochists in the world. From your replies, it sounds like you play WoW, but have absolutely no fun whatsoever while playing. This totally escapes my way of thinking. If I am not having "fun" playing something, I stop playing it. Maybe that is where I am mistaken. Perhaps you are right and 9,000,000, no... hell... ALL of the 10,000,000 players actually HATE the game so much, they keep paying $15 a month to do so!

    Heck, I may even go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps some players find playing with their friends is "fun." Maybe some of them even find an easy game "fun."

    I guess I am confused why you are so adamant that NOBODY finds playing WoW fun...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     




    Originally posted by Dewm

    More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"






    I have to ask this... How do *you* know what these other players define as fun? Your whole argument is based on the assumption that every (or nearly every) WoW player HATES the game and has absolutely no fun whatsoever playing it. That all these other factors pulled from wherever you are pulling them from are truly irrelevant. You are not addressing whether or not players find playing WoW fun. This is not about what anyone thinks is better.

     

    I guess I am confused why you are so adamant that NOBODY finds playing WoW fun...

    First off...I have no clue when or where I said "nobody has fun playing wow" that is the dumbest thing I've heard all night. We were talking about WoW being "MORE fun, or not"

    Second my assumptions are based off of my experience. I have 4 friends that play it.

    My brother inlaw, he plays it because he finds it FUN

    my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)

    my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.

    and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.

     

     

    So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Dewm
    my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)
    my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.
    and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.
     
     
    So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"

    Ironic that you put this forward as a bad thing, when this thread was started by someone extolling the virtues of oldschool PvE because it was more social.. because you could "start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh", unlike modern MMOs which have reduced and removed the social aspects in favour of solofication.


    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    People refuse to accept marketing as the power of WoW. As I explained in my ealier detailed post WoW was in the mainstream non-gamer consciousness prior to launch to a degree that no other game has, could, or will replicate. Just like Diablo vs every other roguelike and TES in srpgs. It doesn't mean those games are the best ever. WoW did a lot of things right in regards to accessibility although vanilla WoW wasn't on the level that current WoW is in that way. But that isn't the number one thing. Marketing is.

    Excuse me ? TES has no special quality. Its basically a RPG so toned down and mainstreamed that even non-RPG-fans might enjoy it. But it doesnt have such an extreme success that it would overshadow all other RPGs. I dont believe marketing has much to do with how successful it was, either.

    Had they not decided to bundle Skyrim with Streamworks, I would have bought it for sure. But so - meh.

     

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto

    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

     

    Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by Banquetto



    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

     

    Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

    You haven't played WOW for a long time?

    Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto

     




    Originally posted by Dewm

    my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)

    my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.

    and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.

     

     

    So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"






    Ironic that you put this forward as a bad thing, when this thread was started by someone extolling the virtues of oldschool PvE because it was more social.. because you could "start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh", unlike modern MMOs which have reduced and removed the social aspects in favour of solofication.

     



    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

     

    I wasn't saying that it was a BAD thing..What I was saying is...out of the people that I know in real life...none of them play it because they found it a suppioror MMO. Most of them never even knew what a MMO was.. 

     

    And as far as the leveling thing goes...its kinda ironic that its true that its a raid focused solo-play game...

     

    You solo from 1-80 (you level to cap without saying a single sentence in chat) And then as soon as you hit level cap you jump the the tredmill and raid untill you die..

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by Banquetto

    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

     

    Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

    You haven't played WOW for a long time?

    Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

    I miss old school PVE because I was new to MMOs at that time and I didn't know what "end game" was.  When you're leveling and you're not aware of "end game" who cares if it takes a long time?

     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Dewm

     

    You solo from 1-80 (you level to cap without saying a single sentence in chat) And then as soon as you hit level cap you jump the the tredmill and raid untill you die..

    Once again, I think people should not state something so blatantly false as if it is the truth.

    First of all, the level cap of WOW is 85, not 80. Secondly, no one solo from 1-85 anymore. Most (unless those who are really anti-social and would NOT mind leveling SLOWER) level by using the LFD system.

    My son just reached 85 on his main yesterday. He quested problay less than 5% of the time. It is done almost 100% by running dungeons.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Angier2758

     

    And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

     

    Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

    In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by Banquetto



    But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

     

    Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

    You haven't played WOW for a long time?

    Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

    I'll admit its been a while. I played biefly after Cataclysm came out (Bliz gave me 10 free days to try the xpac). It honestly felt like they'd dumbed the game down even further. I ended up solo quest grinding to about 55 in the first week before getting bored and quitting again.

    I'm not an antisocial person or anything, but WoW is just one of those games that I haven't (at least since vanilla) found a group of people I enjoy playing with.

    I was tempted to try again after they introduced monks. Since vanilla WoW I'd been saying the game needs a monk class. Unfortunately I don't really feel up to trying the game out again. Or at least not paying for it. If Bliz gives me free time again I might give it another chance.

Sign In or Register to comment.