Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

General: Who Fears Perma-Death?

245

Comments

  • VideoJockeyVideoJockey Stewartstown, PAPosts: 187Member

    Jumpgate was my fist MMO, and it has something close to perma-death: you get a small insurance payout for your ship and gear, but the gear and cargo are gone. All of it. Including hard to get items like artifacts.

    But that (and the arcade-style space combat) made it so exciting. I was not very good at PVP, so getting caught in neutral space with my artifacts onboard was terrifying. My heart rate would spike and I'd start sweating when another dot would appear on my radar and in most cases I'd run like hell back to faction space.

    I think permadeath is a good game mechanic, provided it doesn't take 200 hours to level a toon and that your toon is protected from max-level griefers in the process. (Being owned by another player close to your level is just fine, though.)

  • Lille7Lille7 Ljungskile, AKPosts: 301Member

    I could maybe play a permadeath MMO, but that depends more on other game mechanics than it does the permadeath itself. I believe pretty much any kind of deathpenalty on the scale from no penalty at all to permadeath-full-loss-of-everything could work if the rest of the game supports it. Eve Onlines death penalty works great in that game, but would be horrible in World of Warcraft, because the rest of the game isnt't designed for such a system.

  • FreedomBladeFreedomBlade LeedsPosts: 281Member

    Full loot and stat loss is the way to go. Darkfall, Mortal Online, Roma Victor all had/have this right.

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Actually, yes, I do fear death. But only in one game, and it's not 'technically' an MMO. The original Guild Wars has a harsh death penalty, you lose a stacking 15% to your health AND mana everytime you die, and when most skills are 5-15 mana each and you're a class with 25 capped mana, that hurts. There have been many occasions where I've pulled mobs incorrectly, or got ambushed, and now I'm unable to complete the map because my stats have sunk so low that everything one-hits me. Then, I get to start over from scratch, essentially like a waypoint in a single player game where you only get to save at the beginning of the stage and, if you die, you have to do it all over.

    But there's no other online game where I fear death, and to be honest, I'm quite okay with that. Fearing death may be the holy grail to some, but for me it has only lead to bad experiences. Because people are afraid to die, they'll only take the most uber geared people with them, they'll only bring the meta-game builds and classes, they'll only play with people they've known for a long time, they berate every little mistake, they rage quit if they die, they blame the healer for their retarded mistakes, and generally act all kinds of assholiness. So, no...I don't mind that the days of harsh death penalties have fallen by the wayside.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • melton80melton80 staunton, ILPosts: 54Member

     I've never feared Perma Death cause i won't play any game that has that feature in it in the first place, it is one of the dumbest features any game can ever put in and is a population killer since 90% of the gaming community isn't gonna play a game for 5-6 months then all of a sudden die and lose all that time and have to start over.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    Permadeath only really works in smaller lan games where you have a game master as well that can rez anyone killed due to technical issues.

    I dunno how many times I got killed due to lag, and even though my PC is pretty reliable compared to most it could still freeze up or bluescreen while I play. At sometimes my net ain't 100% reliable either.

    Getting a character killed due to a technical issue would get me and most other players to quit the game, what could be more annoying?

    The pen and paper RPGs I play do have perma death and it is fine there because noone ever got killed for those reasons there but a windows computer and the net just ain't stable enough to support it.

    So I don't fear permadeath in itself, but technical issues just don't make it an option in a MMO right now, maybe in 5 to 10 years or if you use a Linux client at least and have a really great net.

  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member

    any game with Full Loot

    makes things A LOT more exciting

  • Mr.WizardMr.Wizard LithPosts: 243Member

    Strange that I don't see anyone mention the permadeath you had in pre-CU SWG. All work of getting the Jedi * POOF* gone. That must have made quite a few people mad xD

    image

  • dragnsmokedragnsmoke Seattle, WAPosts: 18Member

    I've wanted to see a perma-death game for a long time. Even Lord of the Rings Online was originally supposed to have perma-death until the title was sold and the new studio was not willing to take the risk. I think the idea is daunting and I would have my fears about it too, but I think if you build a game around the idea that death is permanent, you create a different game dynamic. People aren't going to play it like they play MMO's today. People play MMO's today with the current consequences in mind, which are little to none. I feel like if I were going into a game knowing perma-death was a part of it, I would play it differently and know to not get too attached to a character if I am willing to take risks with him. I think the game would also have to cater to the idea of it. I think the game would have to be much less grind and much more experience. You would have to remove the idea of levels, or at least remove the ability to see other people's levels, so that just in real life, you don't really know what you're going up against and weigh out the consequences should the person you are attacking be much stronger than you. You would have to make it much easier to get a character to a good fun playable point so that you can get out and experience things quicker rather than grinding for a year to be high enough level to walk safely through areas. My overall thought is that I like the idea of perma-death, so long as the game is built around the idea. You couldn't just throw perma-death into a cookie cutter MMO as it exists today.

  • CyanKCyanK Montgomery, TXPosts: 20Member

    Permadeath, no...

    A system like EQ though, naked corpse runs through hostile territory with an xp penalty for each death.... now that I'm in favor of. 

    Add in a loot system similiar to that of EVE where a few randomly selected pieces of your equipment drop when killed in PvP... glorious.

    EQ is really the only game of the dozens of MMO's that I've played that would make me truly upset after getting killed by something, not just because I lost some xp, but because it would sometimes take an hour just to get back to the place where you died, let alone recover your corpse.

    In fact come to think of it the ease and speed of travel in MMO's today is a problem just as large as the inconsequential death penalties. They make these massive virtual worlds that you can get practically anywhere in with less than 15 minutes travel time.

     

    image
  • divmaxdivmax JhbPosts: 106Member

    Originally posted by WhySoShort



    Originally posted by dodsfall



    I can't think of any game that blocks you from permadeath if you want to play that way.





     





    If you really want permadeath, simply delete your character  when you die and re-roll.










     

    Brilliant.




     

    I really hate this attitude. Well done, you completely missed the reason why games have rules and why rules make games fun.

  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Belaton, LAPosts: 203Member

    I dont feel as if perma-death is worth the realism it adds to a game. The long term longevity of it wouldn't be worth the consequences.

     

    Fully Lootable corpses sure, but you have to make it so it doesnt take much to get going again. Kinda like old school UO handled it - crafters made some of the best stuff and most of the time you didn't wear your best stuff - you wore good stuff instead.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by orsonstfu

    I dont feel as if perma-death is worth the realism it adds to a game. The long term longevity of it wouldn't be worth the consequences.

     

    Fully Lootable corpses sure, but you have to make it so it doesnt take much to get going again. Kinda like old school UO handled it - crafters made some of the best stuff and most of the time you didn't wear your best stuff - you wore good stuff instead.

    A compromise here would be to add perma death as a penalty for reds. In most games going red is simply an inconvienece, make it so that if a red player is killed it's a perma death. 

    This would keep the ganking down because there would be an actual penalty associated with randomly killing others. Imagine UO without Trammel but with this feature. People wouldn't be cryting out about how they got ganked and complaining that the game was to harsh, they'd be crying out for blood. Might bring some popularity to FFA PvP.

     

    "He killed me and took my stuff, so I came back and deleted his toon Muah haa haa haaaaa." 

     

  • EverSkellyEverSkelly AlytusPosts: 334Member

    I would love to see perma-death in todays mmorpgs. But it has to be done right.

    Character should have lots of HP and dying should only be possible if being extremely careless.

    Every mmorpg could make one server with perma-death ruleset. I believe there would be enough people willing to try it. It really adds to the excitement, especially when you're bored with your usual mmo activities.

    If they started doing it, it could evolve into much more popular type of gameplay, because players would share their experiences, wishes, possible improvements with game developers.

    It shouldn't be very harsh. It could be done right.

    People are afraid of what they don't understand.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bill4747

    While the CONCEPT of permadeath is great, and it adds danger and excitement, there are three big reasons I would prefer not to have it in a game I am playing.

     

    2) Players will be forced somewhat to play as 'cowards' that take no real risks.

     

    I think this is the biggest issue.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been in a group and we've wiped and people didn't want to keep trying it because they were afraid to lose a little xp or afraid of the repair bill.

     

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member

    So basically what you want is a MOBA instead of an MMORPG.  Do I understand you correctly?

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,246Member Uncommon

    I don't fear it one bit.  Because I'll never play an MMO that has it.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,181Member Uncommon

    You just cannot have perma death in any major MMO.  It is just not feasible.  The internet and especially ISP's are just not stable enough.  Because of that, it would be a support nightmare.   Any developer even comtemplating it is being sadistic to their support staff.

     What are you going to do when you ISP resets the line or a router you need suddenly gets jammed, just when you are in a fight of any sort or in a dangerous area.  Yes, you just lost your character.

    Guess how long you would be playing that game after a few incidents like that.  Good luck trying to keep a friends list.

    [Mod Edit]

  • shantidevashantideva bongholmPosts: 186Member

    Meridian 59 has the best death penalties, the way it was meant to be, full loot and pretty harsh stat loss, kept you on your toes at all times.

    "Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"

  • JorviasJorvias Palo Alto, CAPosts: 13Member

    I might try a f2p game with permadeath for the novelty, but I wouldn't invest a significant amount of time or money into it.

    The main "permadeath" games I've played are browser RTS games like Travian or Grepolis. I have lots of fun for about a week as I expand my civilization, after which I am crushed by stronger players and must either restart or quit the game. I choose the latter.

    However, it might be novel to have something like this with an MMORPG where the server resets every 6 months or so and the winners of that "survival of the fittest" round are lauded.

    One problem I'd like to see overcome is the ability to catch-up if you start a civilization/character more than a few days after the server opens. This might work if the game was more skill-based than time-progression-based, or if the main awards were for cooperative group successes.

    For a game I would invest lots of time and money into, however, I think the minimal but potentially frustrating death consequences of a game like SWTOR are optimal.

     

    -Jorvias

    Stormlord Jorvias
    Fryer of Conductive Foes

  • MmorpgeriusMmorpgerius LappeenrantaPosts: 48Member Uncommon

    So people only willing to pay for a guaranteed successs in a game in a set time span. How boring. More risk = more excitement.

    Problem usually isn't the permadeath itself, but the "criminal flagging"/lack of it, glitches and exploits in PD utilizing games allowing excessive griefing. With the right support mechanics permadeath can be done right. 

  • n2soonersn2sooners Moore, OKPosts: 926Member

    There are only two ways I could see permadeath working. The first is if death is insanely rare. And I think that would sort of defeat the purpose. Second would be if characters required practically no time investment and were little more than pets you could throw away, once again defeating the purpose.

    I like tough death penalties for PvE (like EQ used to have).  It keeps you on your toes in risky situations and makes PvE a little more fun. But in PvP, I like lower penalties because you want to encourage PvP, not discourage it.

    image image

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    If you can in no way cheat and no item shop buying you to godmode im all for it np.

    Would give for sure a new dimension to the game knowing your character can be gone around next corner.

    A very long grind would use no purpose even when your extremly good player and last long eventually you die at some point and when you grind alot most will then prolly quit playing.

    If the right balance is found i think it could be posible. I prefer a Darkfall like game but with less grind.

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by Mmorpgerius
    So people only willing to pay for a guaranteed successs in a game in a set time span. How boring. More risk = more excitement.Problem usually isn't the permadeath itself, but the "criminal flagging"/lack of it, glitches and exploits in PD utilizing games allowing excessive griefing. With the right support mechanics permadeath can be done right. 

    Thats my main concern also the exploits. Permadeath only works when servers is 100% RED and no safezones or it wont work i hate SAFEZONES where cowards hide.

    For me it would be exciting if we get a real harsh pvp game with groups of clans fighting to survive the onslaught.

    Bring it on PERMADEATH with constant survivng also you always have to get a new name when making new character so when i name stays long ingame you know he surving a longtime.

    Make a list with howlong players survive with character at least earn there eternal FAME.

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • elistrangeelistrange Louisville, KYPosts: 157Member

    Actually, I believe permadeath could easily lead to "cheap deaths." If my character could get ganked and perma-die, why would I grow attached to it. 

    Currently Play: ?
    Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE

Sign In or Register to comment.