I haven't seen the poster in question trolling, however I have seen others trying to troll him with some pretty petty insults. Having a differing opinion about a game for whatever reason =/= trolling.
Originally posted by Eir_S I haven't seen the poster in question trolling, however I have seen others trying to troll him with some pretty petty insults. Having a differing opinion about a game for whatever reason =/= trolling.
Um...he did not buy the box. He does not play actively. He only played 3 weekends in beta, yet he is heavily posting in SWTOR forums bashing the game and company at every slightest chance he get and jumping every bandwagon he get his hands on...
There is a difference in having an opinion and spamming the boards with this "opinion".
I can't honestly understand paying 15 bucks a month for any game. SWTOR quite likely would have been a game that I bought if it wasn't for the subscription. As it is, I probably won't even try it when or if it goes F2P because it would be old news by then.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Um...he did not buy the box. He does not play actively. He only played 3 weekends in beta, yet he is heavily posting in SWTOR forums bashing the game and company at every slightest chance he get and jumping every bandwagon he get his hands on...
There is a difference in having an opinion and spamming the boards with this "opinion".
Originally posted by pharazonic
Originally posted by Guileplayer
Dude he doesn't own the game...and never played probably beyond level 20 lol.
EDIT: He also has over 100 posts in a game he doesnt own or like. lol?
As I have stated, I don't need to play till 50 to find out if the game is worth playing. I am familiar with how these MMOs work. RIFT was the last time I fell for it.
I understand if others need to go through the motions until it may or may not hit them to stick with a game.
Also, this forum is possibly the most busiest. I have made plenty of other threads in other sections of this site. Not my fault if SWTOR gets the most traffic
Also, not all my SWTOR posts have been negative, or critical. Since you took the effort to go through my post history, I suggest you read the whole thing to see it.
Originally posted by pharazonic
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by pharazonic
He is a member of that game's community is he not? His reactions to any critique of the game is one of utter vehemence -- I doubt that changes if someone within the game voices any criticism.
First and foremost, go anywhere, complain about what everyone is doing, criticize it, etc.. And see what kind of reaction you get, when people are having a good time they don't want be brought down by the negative Nancy, it's simply human nature.
Please point out where I "complained about what everyone is doing". This is the original post in case you forgot:
" The game is decent as a free to play type game. But it is not an mmo its more of a single player RPG with some chat thrown in. Who is actually willing (Be honest) to pay $15 dollars a month for a game not worth one penny???
I responded saying I wouldn't. If I made a thread about how the game sucked, I could see your point. I simply answered the OP.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Originally posted by eyelolled I can't honestly understand paying 15 bucks a month for any game. SWTOR quite likely would have been a game that I bought if it wasn't for the subscription. As it is, I probably won't even try it when or if it goes F2P because it would be old news by then.
The game will probably go F2P at some point but purchase fee(+ subscription) is necessary for game launch of this budget.
F2P model is beneficial in many ways but not suitable for all MMOs.
I can't honestly understand paying 15 bucks a month for any game.
Big companies tack on a sub fee to keep investors, not players, happy. It has nothing to do with us or server costs, and people who defend it as "pocket change" may as well be calling themselves piggy banks.
I can't honestly understand paying 15 bucks a month for any game. SWTOR quite likely would have been a game that I bought if it wasn't for the subscription. As it is, I probably won't even try it when or if it goes F2P because it would be old news by then.
The game will probably go F2P at some point but purchase fee(+ subscription) is necessary for game launch of this budget.
F2P model is beneficial in many ways but not suitable for all MMOs.
Not true. That's conjecture that subscription fee is necessary for any game. There are online games with enormous budges that sell on box price alone and make plenty of profit.
There are games with enormous budges that sell on box price alone and make plenty of profit.
You certainly can provide names then.
The Modern Warfare games, for one. MW2's launch budget was $200 million. No sub fee. You do know what the term "nickle and dime" means when used in relation to the consumer? That's all EA is doing.
Originally posted by Eir_S The Modern Warfare games, for one. MW2's launch budget was $200 million. No sub fee. You do know what the term "nickle and dime" means when used in relation to the consumer? That's all EA is doing.
The Modern Warfare games, for one. MW2's launch budget was $200 million. No sub fee. You do know what the term "nickle and dime" means when used in relation to the consumer? That's all EA is doing.
Call of Duty [Modern Warfare 2] cost $40 million to $50 million to produce, people close to the project said, about as much as a mid-size film. Including marketing expenses and the cost of producing and distributing discs, the launch budget was $200 million, on par with a summer popcorn movie -- and extremely high for a video game.
A widely disproved rumor, MW2 actually cost $200 million to launch. And yes, I do trust the LA Times and IGN over you, no offense. There are other games that subsist completely on box price sales.
Secondly, MW2 and MW3 are online games, there is NO difference between the millions of players online at a time in an online shooter and an MMO, in fact due to the style and complexity of graphics and the number of MW players outnumbering SWTOR players, online shooters probably have a higher bandwidth cost.
You've simply fallen for marketing brainwashing in thinking MMOs use that 15 dollars for game development and not to line investors' pockets.
The difference between MW2 and any mmo is continued development costs.
Once MW2, or any similar game, launches there is very little continued development except for bug fixes and balancing.
What they do develop, however, (expansions, map packs, etc) they CHARGE MONEY FOR.
A game like that doesn't keep their entire Dec staff around after launch to work on the game, but Bioware did.
An mmo without some sort of recurring revenue ( sub, cash shop) will never be able to keep up with players high demand for new content.
It's not just the server costs, it's the development costs. Mmo companies should, ideally, keep creating content for the life of the game. You have to pay for this. Console games, shooters, single player games, etc release and then move their team to other things, like MW 16, and selling you 3 maps for $15.
Oh, and most MMOs can't even turn a profit off of box sales. That is why companies exist you know. To make profit.
I would have thought this was obvious to anyone who plays MMOs. Dont let these pesky little facts stop you from spreading more misinformation though
Originally posted by Eir_S Call of Duty [Modern Warfare 2] cost $40 million to $50 million to producethere is NO difference between the millions of players online at a time in an online shooter and an MMO
See, I did say that the budget for the game was 40-50M.
I did not add
3) MW2 is also targeting console markets
because I thought that is obvious and did not feel like there is much need to point out how way off your example is...
MMOs and multiplayer games have vastly different architecture. MMOs are miles more complex, it is a client-server application. The difference is huge.
Oh, and since you're comparing the two games...$15 for 3 maps is nickel and diming btw.
Are you required to pay the $15 to keep playing a game that would otherwise sit on your shelf? That's what MMO's do. You actually have to stop playing a product you paid more than box price for if you stop feeding the machine.
Are you required to pay the $15 to keep playing a game that would otherwise sit on your shelf? That's what MMO's do. You actually have to stop playing a product you paid more than box price for if you stop feeding the machine.
Purpose of any business is to sell for more than production costs.
You do not like the price? Do not pay and go find similar product for a price that suits you.
Yeah, there is a difference between being a spell nazi and not understanding what someone writes due to poor language skills and extremely bad spelling.
English is my second lanuage, I spell wrong at times and no one on this forum have ever complained, because I try to make sense.
If you have such poor language skills that people have hard understanding you I recommend you to use a spellchecker, it is a basic and simple thing that solves the problem, some browsers have a built in one.
I don't care is someone spells a little wrong at times, but when it gets too much it get really hard to read. If the rest of us can make the effort so can you guys as well.
Wow Loke I would have never known.
You are a damn good poster here on MMORPG. One of my favs anyways.
English is my native language, and I try to differentiate between "their", "they're", and "there" pretty much consistently, but I have a tendacy to screw up format simply from posting while Vicodin influenced. Even then my posting stands head N shoulders above some individuals that attempt the condescending smack based on stereo-types of game preference.
Anyways this was a tangent of the OP. Although it terms of TOR, I suppose that would be counter to being a Black BiSector .
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Oh, and since you're comparing the two games...$15 for 3 maps is nickel and diming btw.
Are you required to pay the $15 to keep playing a game that would otherwise sit on your shelf? That's what MMO's do. You actually have to stop playing a product you paid more than box price for if you stop feeding the machine.
Irrelevant. $15 dollars for 3 maps is nickel and diming. To line the investors pockets as you put it.
Comparing console games to MMO's is pointless anyways. apple's to oranges.
Like I said, Bioware kept their entire development staff after launch. Do you think the Modern Warfare staff stays in tact after that game launches or do they move on to develop MW 4 - 15, and then charge you $60 every year for the same game over and over again.
Of all the games you could use as an example of how not to nickel and dime people, call of duty is a pretty piss poor example. With all of the DLC and the release of a new game every year, I know people that spend 100+ dollars a year on Call of Duty games. Let's not forget that XBox Live subscription either.
So yes, an MMO might be a bit more expensive (box + $180/year) but can you honestly say that you don't get waaaay more content for your money than with a game like CoD? A CoD game has a lifespan of about a year at max, before it becomes obsolete. An mmo has a lifespan of many years if you stick with it.
This comparison is absurd, you should really give up on it.
I will gladly pay 15euros or whatever the sub is for this game, but i tell u know, i wont be playing GW2 if it being free. But i can give you a hint, dont play the game if you dont like it, because a free game will have no updated content or any decent content, yes even gw just wait and see, i pay for SWTOR because i expect BW to go thru with their part or the agreement, wich is Content update with regularity.
ummm u have any idea how many expansions guild wars had?
I will gladly pay 15euros or whatever the sub is for this game, but i tell u know, i wont be playing GW2 if it being free. But i can give you a hint, dont play the game if you dont like it, because a free game will have no updated content or any decent content, yes even gw just wait and see, i pay for SWTOR because i expect BW to go thru with their part or the agreement, wich is Content update with regularity.
ummm u have any idea how many expansions guild wars had?
Dismissing my comparison because of the markets they're aimed at is typical. GW2 is going the non-sub-fee route and are completely confident in doing so, and their budget is massive, and there's no doubt in the minds of the industry that they will succeed.
The concept on the last page that "box price + subscription fee is necessary" for an MMO is 100% conjecture, is my point. Plain and simple.
As for my example being absurd, I'm looking at this from the standpoint of someone who questions why sub fees exist, not how much they cost or whether or not everyone can afford it. They don't exist for a good enough reason to the player to continue to be a prevalent payment model, and they never will. They keep you playing in mundane ways to fill up time so you stay addicted and playing until the next renewal period. That's absurd.
I'm not saying a sub is necessary. In fact I said some kind of continuous revenue stream. GW 2 will have cash shops right? And charge for expansions? That's what I thought.
Anyways, back to call of duty, you seem to have forgotten call of duty elite! It's a yearly sub for call of duty to get all of the content that they put behind a pay wall! And i cant think of a single mmo that offers less content per year than call of duty elite.
So some of same console gamers are paying a $50 yearly sub for call of duty. Yes it's les than an mmo, but it just goes to show how bad your example is.
Why are these console gamers paying a sub? Because it's worth it to them for a game they love. Just like it's worth it to me to pay a sub for TOR.
To be honest, if the game wasn't P2P I probably wouldn't feel the same drive to accomplish things in game. Games that are F2P never hold me for long, and I can't explain it. Maybe it is all psychological.
That being said, I absolutely love this MMO and will be playing it for a while.
What? My comparison doesn't continue to fall apart, you're actually adding things to it that I never said just to debunk them.
Can you play COD once you've bought the box? Yes.
Can you even play SWTOR or Rift without commiting financial details or with game cards, several months' worth of fees, to play something you just paid for? No. Not even for a minute. You bought a hunk of plastic for 60 bucks that is useless without a wallet to go with it.
Your comparison is falling apart if anything, in fact I don't know why you brought up maps or the "elite" plan in the first place. They are NOT necessary for playing the game, and your argument is not really relevant. I wasn't even talking to you or about you, and especially not about cash shops, since I believe they are viable since they're not necessary.
Can anyone here resaonably argue with either mine or Colin Johansen's arguments that subscriptions are not necessary to make a profit? No. You just say they are because that's what these companies have told you.
"There's an incorrect belief out there that it's more expensive server-wise to run a giant open world game than it is to run an instanced game such as Guild Wars." There's a confidence about Johanson when he talks about the way MMOs are, an assured-ness that's almost akin to an investigative journalist blowing open some great story.
"The server bandwidth now is getting reasonably inexpensive enough that you don't need to charge a fee for online games," he explained
Comments
I do not think anyone is questioning your self-presentation as a troll.
I haven't seen the poster in question trolling, however I have seen others trying to troll him with some pretty petty insults. Having a differing opinion about a game for whatever reason =/= trolling.
Um...he did not buy the box. He does not play actively. He only played 3 weekends in beta, yet he is heavily posting in SWTOR forums bashing the game and company at every slightest chance he get and jumping every bandwagon he get his hands on...
There is a difference in having an opinion and spamming the boards with this "opinion".
I can't honestly understand paying 15 bucks a month for any game. SWTOR quite likely would have been a game that I bought if it wasn't for the subscription. As it is, I probably won't even try it when or if it goes F2P because it would be old news by then.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
The game will probably go F2P at some point but purchase fee(+ subscription) is necessary for game launch of this budget.
F2P model is beneficial in many ways but not suitable for all MMOs.
Big companies tack on a sub fee to keep investors, not players, happy. It has nothing to do with us or server costs, and people who defend it as "pocket change" may as well be calling themselves piggy banks.
Not true. That's conjecture that subscription fee is necessary for any game. There are online games with enormous budges that sell on box price alone and make plenty of profit.
You certainly can provide names then.
The Modern Warfare games, for one. MW2's launch budget was $200 million. No sub fee. You do know what the term "nickle and dime" means when used in relation to the consumer? That's all EA is doing.
Ok..
1) MW2 is not an MMO.
2) MW2 budget was not 200M, but 40-50M.
I guess you read the wrong article then.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51534/Modern-Warfare-2-Cost-200-Million-Hidden-Game-Modes-Unlocked-On-PC
Call of Duty [Modern Warfare 2] cost $40 million to $50 million to produce, people close to the project said, about as much as a mid-size film. Including marketing expenses and the cost of producing and distributing discs, the launch budget was $200 million, on par with a summer popcorn movie -- and extremely high for a video game.
A widely disproved rumor, MW2 actually cost $200 million to launch. And yes, I do trust the LA Times and IGN over you, no offense. There are other games that subsist completely on box price sales.
Secondly, MW2 and MW3 are online games, there is NO difference between the millions of players online at a time in an online shooter and an MMO, in fact due to the style and complexity of graphics and the number of MW players outnumbering SWTOR players, online shooters probably have a higher bandwidth cost.
You've simply fallen for marketing brainwashing in thinking MMOs use that 15 dollars for game development and not to line investors' pockets.
The difference between MW2 and any mmo is continued development costs.
Once MW2, or any similar game, launches there is very little continued development except for bug fixes and balancing.
What they do develop, however, (expansions, map packs, etc) they CHARGE MONEY FOR.
A game like that doesn't keep their entire Dec staff around after launch to work on the game, but Bioware did.
An mmo without some sort of recurring revenue ( sub, cash shop) will never be able to keep up with players high demand for new content.
It's not just the server costs, it's the development costs. Mmo companies should, ideally, keep creating content for the life of the game. You have to pay for this. Console games, shooters, single player games, etc release and then move their team to other things, like MW 16, and selling you 3 maps for $15.
Oh, and most MMOs can't even turn a profit off of box sales. That is why companies exist you know. To make profit.
I would have thought this was obvious to anyone who plays MMOs. Dont let these pesky little facts stop you from spreading more misinformation though
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
See, I did say that the budget for the game was 40-50M.
I did not add
3) MW2 is also targeting console markets
because I thought that is obvious and did not feel like there is much need to point out how way off your example is...
MMOs and multiplayer games have vastly different architecture. MMOs are miles more complex, it is a client-server application. The difference is huge.
You are mixing apples and oranges.
Are you required to pay the $15 to keep playing a game that would otherwise sit on your shelf? That's what MMO's do. You actually have to stop playing a product you paid more than box price for if you stop feeding the machine.
Purpose of any business is to sell for more than production costs.
You do not like the price? Do not pay and go find similar product for a price that suits you.
Your point is moot.
Wow Loke I would have never known.
You are a damn good poster here on MMORPG. One of my favs anyways.
English is my native language, and I try to differentiate between "their", "they're", and "there" pretty much consistently, but I have a tendacy to screw up format simply from posting while Vicodin influenced. Even then my posting stands head N shoulders above some individuals that attempt the condescending smack based on stereo-types of game preference.
Anyways this was a tangent of the OP. Although it terms of TOR, I suppose that would be counter to being a Black BiSector .
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Irrelevant. $15 dollars for 3 maps is nickel and diming. To line the investors pockets as you put it.
Comparing console games to MMO's is pointless anyways. apple's to oranges.
Like I said, Bioware kept their entire development staff after launch. Do you think the Modern Warfare staff stays in tact after that game launches or do they move on to develop MW 4 - 15, and then charge you $60 every year for the same game over and over again.
Of all the games you could use as an example of how not to nickel and dime people, call of duty is a pretty piss poor example. With all of the DLC and the release of a new game every year, I know people that spend 100+ dollars a year on Call of Duty games. Let's not forget that XBox Live subscription either.
So yes, an MMO might be a bit more expensive (box + $180/year) but can you honestly say that you don't get waaaay more content for your money than with a game like CoD? A CoD game has a lifespan of about a year at max, before it becomes obsolete. An mmo has a lifespan of many years if you stick with it.
This comparison is absurd, you should really give up on it.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
ummm u have any idea how many expansions guild wars had?
Isn't it 3? Meh
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Dismissing my comparison because of the markets they're aimed at is typical. GW2 is going the non-sub-fee route and are completely confident in doing so, and their budget is massive, and there's no doubt in the minds of the industry that they will succeed.
The concept on the last page that "box price + subscription fee is necessary" for an MMO is 100% conjecture, is my point. Plain and simple.
As for my example being absurd, I'm looking at this from the standpoint of someone who questions why sub fees exist, not how much they cost or whether or not everyone can afford it. They don't exist for a good enough reason to the player to continue to be a prevalent payment model, and they never will. They keep you playing in mundane ways to fill up time so you stay addicted and playing until the next renewal period. That's absurd.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37537/Opinion_Guild_Wars_2_Fights_The_Subscription_Racket.php
Anyways, back to call of duty, you seem to have forgotten call of duty elite! It's a yearly sub for call of duty to get all of the content that they put behind a pay wall! And i cant think of a single mmo that offers less content per year than call of duty elite.
So some of same console gamers are paying a $50 yearly sub for call of duty. Yes it's les than an mmo, but it just goes to show how bad your example is.
Why are these console gamers paying a sub? Because it's worth it to them for a game they love. Just like it's worth it to me to pay a sub for TOR.
Your comparison is continuing to fall apart....
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
To be honest, if the game wasn't P2P I probably wouldn't feel the same drive to accomplish things in game. Games that are F2P never hold me for long, and I can't explain it. Maybe it is all psychological.
That being said, I absolutely love this MMO and will be playing it for a while.
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
-MMOs played no one cares about: check.
-Xfire stats no one cares about: check.
-Signature no one cares about: check.
------------------------------------------------------------
-Narcissism: check.
What? My comparison doesn't continue to fall apart, you're actually adding things to it that I never said just to debunk them.
Can you play COD once you've bought the box? Yes.
Can you even play SWTOR or Rift without commiting financial details or with game cards, several months' worth of fees, to play something you just paid for? No. Not even for a minute. You bought a hunk of plastic for 60 bucks that is useless without a wallet to go with it.
Your comparison is falling apart if anything, in fact I don't know why you brought up maps or the "elite" plan in the first place. They are NOT necessary for playing the game, and your argument is not really relevant. I wasn't even talking to you or about you, and especially not about cash shops, since I believe they are viable since they're not necessary.
Can anyone here resaonably argue with either mine or Colin Johansen's arguments that subscriptions are not necessary to make a profit? No. You just say they are because that's what these companies have told you.
"There's an incorrect belief out there that it's more expensive server-wise to run a giant open world game than it is to run an instanced game such as Guild Wars." There's a confidence about Johanson when he talks about the way MMOs are, an assured-ness that's almost akin to an investigative journalist blowing open some great story.
"The server bandwidth now is getting reasonably inexpensive enough that you don't need to charge a fee for online games," he explained
Again, I'm going to have to go with the experts.