Wheres the forum guy who always cites WoW having 11 million subscriptions, despite the figure having changed, and at least half of that figure being in the Chinese market.
Digital sales are not counted so i would say above 2 million easily which is very very impressive for a MMORPG. Congrats Bioware.
If true that is very impressive. It seemed like a majority of the player base was going to come from the pre-orders tbh.
I'm thinking they probably made enough to cover the costs of development?
I'm sure they're very happy. And good for them!
Like I said, I think they'll probably end up with 500K subs in a year's time. What they said they needed all along to turn a profit. But I do think many people feel like they got burned, so the Bioware name will mean less the next time one of their titles comes out. Especially after both DA2 and SWTOR, which are sub-par games. My opinion, of course.
They made their money, but I imagine the Bioware brand took a major hit. In a way, it reminds me a bit of Funcom and AoC. Lots of people bought that title only to leave the game in droves. I suspect that's going to happen here.
That being said, I'm sure I'll get ME3. (I still say KOTOR 3 is how SWTOR should've gone, instead of some co-op mess.) Regardless, I've been waiting for ME3 for a long time. I hope some of my faith in Bioware can be restored.
But the bottom line is that I'm glad an MMO title made some good money. That bodes well when some company finally gets it right again.
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
Digital sales are not counted so i would say above 2 million easily which is very very impressive for a MMORPG. Congrats Bioware.
If true that is very impressive. It seemed like a majority of the player base was going to come from the pre-orders tbh.
I'm thinking they probably made enough to cover the costs of development?
I'm sure they're very happy. And good for them!
Like I said, I think they'll probably end up with 500K subs in a year's time. What they said they needed all along to turn a profit. But I do think many people feel like they got burned, so the Bioware name will mean less the next time one of their titles comes out. Especially after both DA2 and SWTOR, which are sub-par games. My opinion, of course.
They made their money, but I imagine the Bioware brand took a major hit. In a way, it reminds me a bit of Funcom and AoC. Lots of people bought that title only to leave the game in droves. I suspect that's going to happen here.
That being said, I'm sure I'll get ME3. (I still say KOTOR 3 is how SWTOR should've gone, instead of some co-op mess.) Regardless, I've been waiting for ME3 for a long time. I hope some of my faith in Bioware can be restored.
But the bottom line is that I'm glad an MMO title made some good money. That bodes well when some company finally gets it right again.
I'd definitely disagree then. The sales figure alone would place this within the mmorpg market, as the second highest grossing retail in the industries entire history, and the fastest growing.
Imo, it's too early to say how well it will "retain", or whether it is sub par, (beyond personal taste), as it just launched a couple weeks ago. I get what you are saying about KOTOR 3 Vs SWTOR though, I was very confused when I first heard the announcement.
It probably will probably begin to fall in subscriptions around the second month or so once many of the casuals begin hitting 50, although this is as true as blood when it comes to content oriented theme-parks.
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
I believe the 500,000 to make even, was out of sales.
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
They've said they've kept the team on to keep churning out content in order to keep us paying a monthly fee... I hope this is true, and if it is, it's amazing to finally have a dev team that GETS IT!
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
Technically...since EA already expensed the development, it's all profit (although LA doesn't get it's cut until the 'expenses' are paid - looks like that'll be happening sooner rather than later!)
That's a nice figure for physical sales though - although I admit to a little surprise over the EU figures - unless they're more heavily invested in Digital Sales - half the NA numbers is a lot less than I was expecting - and really doesn't seem apparent by the EU servers 'busyness'?
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
I believe the 500,000 to make even, was out of sales.
I do believe it was 500k subs after a year, so they aren't out of the woods yet.
While EA says it is incurring "significant development costs" for its Star Wars-themed MMO The Old Republic, the company says those costs could turn in to significant profits with relatively moderate subscriber numbers.
"At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," EA CEO John Riccitiello said in a Gamasutra-attended conference call accompanying EA's third quarter fiscal earnings report today. "Anything north of a million subscribers, it's a very profitable business."
Riccitiello stressed to investors that the costs being incurred now would "essentially turn on a dime" to profits the day the title ships, a date still targeted for sometime after March but before the end of calendar 2012.
Riccitiello also criticized some news outlets for irresponsible reporting on the game's development costs.
"There's been a fair amount of talk on various blogs describing [Old Republic development] spends that are vastly higher than anything we've ever put in place," he said.
"Don't read gamer blogs as having any substance. They bring a chuckle, but they also bring a frustration for those that are being responsible with the management of EA's R&D dollars."
In May, EA CFO Scott Brown said the game was "the largest R&D project EA has ever undertaken in terms of total dollars that we expect to spend bringing the title to market."
Just wondering, how many of the boxes wasn't sold.
Boxes at the hypermart near me haven't moved (nor have timecards), or they have a big storage of them.
Just a notice, cause the games section is where I frequent with my kids every freaking time we go there :P
Gamespot near me had a lot on the shelves day after release when I went to get it for my nephew.
I still think they hit 2 mill for the hype and what not.
So that's cool for the first week.
Wasn't there a game that sold like 3 mill in one week, I don't think an mmo has(mainly one with a unfamiliar IP.)?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just wondering, how many of the boxes wasn't sold.
Boxes at the hypermart near me haven't moved (nor have timecards), or they have a big storage of them.
Just a notice, cause the games section is where I frequent with my kids every freaking time we go there :P
I am not surprised as I and everyone I know only buys digital for the ease of use and direct access (which is BTW more expensive than the boxes sold by online retailers).
BW probably earns 100% more on them. So if you add this to the 1.68m boxes sold... we get some impressive numbers, and this is for the 1st week only.
Definitely not suprising on the sales numbers. I always thought it would set records for an MMO in its first month of sales.
The stat that is really going to interest me is subscription numbers at the 12 month mark. I'm not trying to say anything good or bad... I am just mostly interested in where this game is at .. one year after release.
There's probably a significant number of people waiting on the sidelines (like me) who are potential buyers as well. Me and a friend are each waiting for the other to buy it before we commit, haha. At the moment, I'm too absorbed in Skyrim and Minecraft, but I suspect I'll eventually buy SWTOR. I'm in no hurry.
Just wondering, how many of the boxes wasn't sold.
Boxes at the hypermart near me haven't moved (nor have timecards), or they have a big storage of them.
Just a notice, cause the games section is where I frequent with my kids every freaking time we go there :P
I am not surprised as I and everyone I know only buys digital for the ease of use and direct access (which is BTW more expensive than the boxes sold by online retailers).
BW probably earns 100% more on them. So if you add this to the 1.68m boxes sold... we get some impressive numbers, and this is for the 1st week only.
Me too, digital is the preference.
It's just that digital is a bit funky to wrap under the christmas tree and here has been said quite often that there's many boxes under trees this (last) christmas.
I don't wish to speculate on those numbers from digital sales, because they are uncontrollable. EA can throw any suitable number in, specially now when they have put "Out of stock" for digital sales at the launch time.
Once we get to the number part and impressiveness there's numerous sources to mine the data from.
VGChartz is one source, financial report will be one, general concensus will have a factor in it, various sites offering somekind of data about the game and of course the infanous XFire will play a part in the act too.
EDIT: What I forgot to say, their target audience doesn't necessarily do digital purchases. That might play a factor in this too.
Digital sales are not counted so i would say above 2 million easily which is very very impressive for a MMORPG. Congrats Bioware.
If true that is very impressive. It seemed like a majority of the player base was going to come from the pre-orders tbh.
I'm thinking they probably made enough to cover the costs of development?
I'm sure they're very happy. And good for them!
Like I said, I think they'll probably end up with 500K subs in a year's time. What they said they needed all along to turn a profit. But I do think many people feel like they got burned, so the Bioware name will mean less the next time one of their titles comes out. Especially after both DA2 and SWTOR, which are sub-par games. My opinion, of course.
They made their money, but I imagine the Bioware brand took a major hit. In a way, it reminds me a bit of Funcom and AoC. Lots of people bought that title only to leave the game in droves. I suspect that's going to happen here.
That being said, I'm sure I'll get ME3. (I still say KOTOR 3 is how SWTOR should've gone, instead of some co-op mess.) Regardless, I've been waiting for ME3 for a long time. I hope some of my faith in Bioware can be restored.
But the bottom line is that I'm glad an MMO title made some good money. That bodes well when some company finally gets it right again.
I'd definitely disagree then. The sales figure alone would place this within the mmorpg market, as the second highest grossing retail in the industries entire history, and the fastest growing.
Imo, it's too early to say how well it will "retain", or whether it is sub par, (beyond personal taste), as it just launched a couple weeks ago. I get what you are saying about KOTOR 3 Vs SWTOR though, I was very confused when I first heard the announcement.
It probably will probably begin to fall in subscriptions around the second month or so once many of the casuals begin hitting 50, although this is as true as blood when it comes to content oriented theme-parks.
The sales figures for AoC were some of the highest at the time, too. But it's all relative.
Funcom couldn't retain diddly squat for subs, and I imagine that SWTOR is going to have a mass exodus. Now, I'm not stating that as fact -- merely opinion, based on the lack of features and substandard PVP elements -- but I could certainly be wrong. But my guess is that it will not retain over 1 million subs after a year.
I think it will probably be around 750K subs.
The lack of content is a killer, and given it's taken them 5 years to give us this (which I think isn't even a real MMO), I just can't see them producing content to stop the bleed once it starts. And as you mentioned, I think that bleed starts once people arrive at 50 and understand that Bioware wants them to reroll. That's already begun to an extent, and it's only going to get worse.
MMO subs are hinged upon an association between the player and the character; an affinity a player has for the time invested and trials and tribulations the player has undertaken to see his avatar through its journey. Bioware wants you to abandon all that and discard that character in lieu of a (slightly) different experience. I just think that's not going to work in the slightest.
We'll see. But I legitimately see this game dropping like a rock. And I'm not being a tard or a hater -- I really think that's the inevitable conclusion to a title that forgoes essential elements and tries to micromanage the player. Not gonna work.
Initial sales records don't mean crap. If you look at every major player in the MMO market you'll see that with every new xpac or MMO sale records are being broken which is because of the growing market of MMOers. Cata, WotLK, some have mentioned AoC all had record sales, not sure if Rift broke the record but would say definately it was up there. The real question and what everyone really cares about is what will be the subs in 2-6 months time.
Comments
Wheres the forum guy who always cites WoW having 11 million subscriptions, despite the figure having changed, and at least half of that figure being in the Chinese market.
haha, I was thinking the same thing....dude's never been to Vegas apparently...lol.
If true that is very impressive. It seemed like a majority of the player base was going to come from the pre-orders tbh.
I'm thinking they probably made enough to cover the costs of development?
I'm sure they're very happy. And good for them!
Like I said, I think they'll probably end up with 500K subs in a year's time. What they said they needed all along to turn a profit. But I do think many people feel like they got burned, so the Bioware name will mean less the next time one of their titles comes out. Especially after both DA2 and SWTOR, which are sub-par games. My opinion, of course.
They made their money, but I imagine the Bioware brand took a major hit. In a way, it reminds me a bit of Funcom and AoC. Lots of people bought that title only to leave the game in droves. I suspect that's going to happen here.
That being said, I'm sure I'll get ME3. (I still say KOTOR 3 is how SWTOR should've gone, instead of some co-op mess.) Regardless, I've been waiting for ME3 for a long time. I hope some of my faith in Bioware can be restored.
But the bottom line is that I'm glad an MMO title made some good money. That bodes well when some company finally gets it right again.
I thought very same thing.
It certainly is impressive. If total sales are 3 million so far (including digital...just an estimate), then from box sales alone, they've garnered 180 million.
If the estimates of their 300 million dollar investment are correct, then you're looking at 120 million more before profits are realized. Further, if they only have a 30% retention...say 1 million subs, then by this time next year BioWare will be turning a profit (minus operating costs of course, which we have no figures for).
That's pretty good no matter how you look at it.
those estimates have loooooong ago been debunked. 80-150 million is more accurate.
well, even better for BioWare then. They'll be in the black easily within a few months...if box sales haven't cleared that mark already.
I'd definitely disagree then. The sales figure alone would place this within the mmorpg market, as the second highest grossing retail in the industries entire history, and the fastest growing.
Imo, it's too early to say how well it will "retain", or whether it is sub par, (beyond personal taste), as it just launched a couple weeks ago. I get what you are saying about KOTOR 3 Vs SWTOR though, I was very confused when I first heard the announcement.
It probably will probably begin to fall in subscriptions around the second month or so once many of the casuals begin hitting 50, although this is as true as blood when it comes to content oriented theme-parks.
I believe the 500,000 to make even, was out of sales.
They've said they've kept the team on to keep churning out content in order to keep us paying a monthly fee... I hope this is true, and if it is, it's amazing to finally have a dev team that GETS IT!
I say we just take over the known world again and be done with it
Technically...since EA already expensed the development, it's all profit (although LA doesn't get it's cut until the 'expenses' are paid - looks like that'll be happening sooner rather than later!)
That's a nice figure for physical sales though - although I admit to a little surprise over the EU figures - unless they're more heavily invested in Digital Sales - half the NA numbers is a lot less than I was expecting - and really doesn't seem apparent by the EU servers 'busyness'?
Since the only way to buy a digital copy was through Origin I'd be willing to bet that game unit sales are a lot higher than this.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I do believe it was 500k subs after a year, so they aren't out of the woods yet.
I guess subs after launch:
EA: Old Republic MMO To Show Profit With 500,000 Subscribers
While EA says it is incurring "significant development costs" for its Star Wars-themed MMO The Old Republic, the company says those costs could turn in to significant profits with relatively moderate subscriber numbers.
"At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," EA CEO John Riccitiello said in a Gamasutra-attended conference call accompanying EA's third quarter fiscal earnings report today. "Anything north of a million subscribers, it's a very profitable business."
Riccitiello stressed to investors that the costs being incurred now would "essentially turn on a dime" to profits the day the title ships, a date still targeted for sometime after March but before the end of calendar 2012.
Riccitiello also criticized some news outlets for irresponsible reporting on the game's development costs.
"There's been a fair amount of talk on various blogs describing [Old Republic development] spends that are vastly higher than anything we've ever put in place," he said.
"Don't read gamer blogs as having any substance. They bring a chuckle, but they also bring a frustration for those that are being responsible with the management of EA's R&D dollars."
In May, EA CFO Scott Brown said the game was "the largest R&D project EA has ever undertaken in terms of total dollars that we expect to spend bringing the title to market."
Just wondering, how many of the boxes wasn't sold.
Boxes at the hypermart near me haven't moved (nor have timecards), or they have a big storage of them.
Just a notice, cause the games section is where I frequent with my kids every freaking time we go there :P
Gamespot near me had a lot on the shelves day after release when I went to get it for my nephew.
I still think they hit 2 mill for the hype and what not.
So that's cool for the first week.
Wasn't there a game that sold like 3 mill in one week, I don't think an mmo has(mainly one with a unfamiliar IP.)?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I am not surprised as I and everyone I know only buys digital for the ease of use and direct access (which is BTW more expensive than the boxes sold by online retailers).
BW probably earns 100% more on them. So if you add this to the 1.68m boxes sold... we get some impressive numbers, and this is for the 1st week only.
Definitely not suprising on the sales numbers. I always thought it would set records for an MMO in its first month of sales.
The stat that is really going to interest me is subscription numbers at the 12 month mark. I'm not trying to say anything good or bad... I am just mostly interested in where this game is at .. one year after release.
There's probably a significant number of people waiting on the sidelines (like me) who are potential buyers as well. Me and a friend are each waiting for the other to buy it before we commit, haha. At the moment, I'm too absorbed in Skyrim and Minecraft, but I suspect I'll eventually buy SWTOR. I'm in no hurry.
I'm glad BW is having this initial success.
The major early access benefit skewed the sales to be preorders. That's probably why there are lots of boxes in stores.
Me too, digital is the preference.
It's just that digital is a bit funky to wrap under the christmas tree and here has been said quite often that there's many boxes under trees this (last) christmas.
I don't wish to speculate on those numbers from digital sales, because they are uncontrollable. EA can throw any suitable number in, specially now when they have put "Out of stock" for digital sales at the launch time.
Once we get to the number part and impressiveness there's numerous sources to mine the data from.
VGChartz is one source, financial report will be one, general concensus will have a factor in it, various sites offering somekind of data about the game and of course the infanous XFire will play a part in the act too.
EDIT: What I forgot to say, their target audience doesn't necessarily do digital purchases. That might play a factor in this too.
The sales figures for AoC were some of the highest at the time, too. But it's all relative.
Funcom couldn't retain diddly squat for subs, and I imagine that SWTOR is going to have a mass exodus. Now, I'm not stating that as fact -- merely opinion, based on the lack of features and substandard PVP elements -- but I could certainly be wrong. But my guess is that it will not retain over 1 million subs after a year.
I think it will probably be around 750K subs.
The lack of content is a killer, and given it's taken them 5 years to give us this (which I think isn't even a real MMO), I just can't see them producing content to stop the bleed once it starts. And as you mentioned, I think that bleed starts once people arrive at 50 and understand that Bioware wants them to reroll. That's already begun to an extent, and it's only going to get worse.
MMO subs are hinged upon an association between the player and the character; an affinity a player has for the time invested and trials and tribulations the player has undertaken to see his avatar through its journey. Bioware wants you to abandon all that and discard that character in lieu of a (slightly) different experience. I just think that's not going to work in the slightest.
We'll see. But I legitimately see this game dropping like a rock. And I'm not being a tard or a hater -- I really think that's the inevitable conclusion to a title that forgoes essential elements and tries to micromanage the player. Not gonna work.
Initial sales records don't mean crap. If you look at every major player in the MMO market you'll see that with every new xpac or MMO sale records are being broken which is because of the growing market of MMOers. Cata, WotLK, some have mentioned AoC all had record sales, not sure if Rift broke the record but would say definately it was up there. The real question and what everyone really cares about is what will be the subs in 2-6 months time.