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Originally posted by Leucent Originally posted by spizz Yes 10-50 grouping is good.....says who, St. Claus ? Maybe get in and play lvl 15 toon and have more than half of your opponents as lvl 50. You could go afk and it would not change the gameplay round....it is irritating that people defend this . Its not not understandable, since its natural that you would see the flaws here.
Theres nothing wrong with it at all. People make a big deal out of it, As a matter of fact when I was 15 ish I never even looked at the opponents levels. I was fighting. I won my fair share, and it s not hard to beat many higher then you.
The problem is not the level, it's the gear! There is now way you could win a fight against a top geared level 50 that knows what he is doing!
Try playing a level 80 in the 80-85 bracket in Wow and see what happens: you get brutally savaged by level 85 players who have almost double the HP you do and top end gear to boot.
SWTOR PVP is more "fairly" balanced than most games and while I found it more diufficult to beat level 50's it wasn't impossible - at some point most people will be level 50 anyway so it won't matter.
The only advanatge I've seen are with Force users in Huttball - this is true. The ability to force run and jump gives you a clear advantage in this match no doubt.
PVP in SWTOR is the most fun I've had ever and eventually things will even out as people hit level cap. If you still think it's bad - roll a toon in Wow and give those BG's a try for a most "unbalanced" experience
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Originally posted by pharazonic The PvP in this game is downright awful from what I have heard. Balance issues aside, BW has been incredibly naive in their approach to PvP. Blizzard learned in 2008 that servers will co-operate even in PvP and trade the zone back and forth to get the reward. Therefore, they intervened and fixed it by tweaking how the rewards worked. What you describe in SWTOR is similar in nature -- but BW has the inexpertise or lack of knowledge to not even think their PvP model is broken. Let's not even touch the Warzone level thing. As I said earlier, some very "special" individual at BioWare head office must have been on something when they decided to lump all players for WZ. What a downright dumb idea.
Maybe you should actually PLAY the game before making an uninformed and innacurate comment - you'll look smarter
Just started playing a few days so I can't comment on the PvP, I don't intend to bother with it really (I get my pvp in FPS/RTS games). However I will say that Bioware should receive no 'break' for it being their first MMO. From my understanding, some of the same people who designed/managed Warhammer Onlines RvR aspects helped design SWTOR's pvp, and WHO turned out great eh...If the pvp in SWTOR is lame now, I do however have some blind faith though they will fix it up eventually, unlike Warhammer, which never had a chance.
I agree. PvP sucks. No one open world PvP's. And if you do, prepare to be yelled at. BY YOUR OWN FACTION! Its insane. That means everyone warzones and the level 50's just roll everyone. You just can't win against them. 6 people beating on an Inquisitor and he just casually walks into the goal for huttball. And if its a pre-made 50 team. Just find a corner to hide in and just go afk. Cause you aint winning.
Please note that I did not mention the overpowered Inquisitor class, the way underpowered Jedi Juggernaut class, the wonky resolve system, the chain stuns that the resolve system was suppose to solve, the 1-2 second lag, and other nit picky things....most problems could be resolved by adding tiers but I have a feeling the servers don't hold enough players to support tiers.
I have just given up. During one of these lvl 50 face rolls, I logged into swtor and canceled my account. I'll be back when they fix the pvp. I could care less aboout the story after 4 months of playing beta. I can watch that on youtube. And the flashpoints and operations(which are broken also) are all tank-and-spank which I can get in a f2p game.
Originally posted by Zlayer77 Originally posted by snapfusion BATTLEGROUNDS Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so? WORLD PVP Would like to see more of it PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.
I dont think people want to play WoW2? do you? why even have battlegrounds? fucking boring crap. If developers tried to make some Inovation and try to Understand that people really dont want to watch the same movies OVER and Over and they sure dont want to play the same game Over and over, we might get us a smash hit in the MMO market.
I bought Skyrim, One time cost, And Iv loged about 200 hours now, and Im having a blast, I had a shitload of fun with Read dead redemption before that.. If you dont count EvE online the last time I had alot of fun in an MMO was back in 2004-2005 when I played World of warcraft, and guess what I hated the Battlegounds they brought into that game, I quit it after Burning crusade came out.. havent looked back.. I had a little bit of fun playing age of conan also because that game actually tried some Inovation, with the combat etc, But FAIL COME droped the ball on that one... Could have been the next big thing if they held of a year or 2 before Releasing it....
But I guess its going to take a few more Massive FAILS to get the MMO industry back to its INDY ROTS.. and we can have some decent games again.. with death penelties and Hardcore feeling to them... People dont like dumb down content.. "Dark Souls" and "Ninja guiden" comes to mind, hardcore games Earn Respect.. Games build for avrage Joe dosent...
vanilla WoW, what most of you little kiddies dont understand is that The pre burning crusade WoW was alot more hardcore then the dumb down shit it is today... Repair costs, atunments, having 40 man ready for a raid and the world pvp was alot of fun..
Dark age of Camelot
Most everything Relased after 2004.. WAR, champions online, AoC and Star Trek online being the real bottom feeders, but Lord of the rings and a few others arnt far behind..
I made the comparisn to Wow because its pretty clear thats their target market. And wishing TOR to be some old school sandbox style game is well wishfull thinking.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Swtor will be just another themepark end game raiding mmo with new raids added every few months and nothing else. this is one mmo i wont be paying 15 bucks a month to play. if i wanted to play an mmo like this i would just play wow because wow does this kind of content the best. i cant believe that a star wars mmo end game is raiding, they must have some bright sparks at bioware to come up with this kind of original content. i was giving swtor the benefit of the doubt but now i'll say it...wow clone.
You REALLY need to invent the perfect MMO since you seem to know what it takes. Let me know how that goes
Originally posted by Crunchy221 Two problems with the themepark pvp crowd. 1. Most would be happier in some form of tab target FPS rather than a RPG 2. Most people who join the PVP server have no intent on open world PVP unless it proves to be better loot and faster leveling than questing...rather than pvp for the enjoyment of it Im steadily becoming convinced that a large portion of mmorpg players would be far happier playing another multiplayer onine game type, rather than RPG...its seems everything RPG seems to be the enemy these days. This is strange since there are so many other options out there. SWTOR pvp sucks because its not FPS/CTF/Deathmatch enough is what i have gatherd here.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
on average most rpg are morpg when they re online game!not many can brag about the massive part,and their view of massive isnt ccp (eve online)view of massive multiplayer!so yes the other poster that said player should move out of rpg is right we all expect mmorpg nad always get morpg or corpg.wow was mmorpg in the vanilla era,swtor surprisingly has the mmorpg in it,world raid pvp ?i sure havent seen this in a while and loot on the boss is good enough that it will be popular,as for illum!very easy to fix instead of putting loot on monster there you kill monster then it give you the right to pvp to get loot of player ,this way it force pvp and no big mecanic change
PVp is done very poory in this game balance aside. Only three battlegrounds, and if your side outnumbers the enemy faction it's basically only huttball because that's all you'll be getting 8 times out of 10(you face your own factions). It gets repetitive very fast. Very little variety, ect. Then when you get to the actual battlegrounds, you have one arathi basin, one capture the flag, and one bg that feels somewhat refreshing (the ship battle, i forget the name)
Pvp combat feels bad as well. The amount of cc in this game is completely asinine. The couple of classes I've played each have multiple banishes, multple stuns, multiple knocks backs, multiple interupts on short cool downs, snares, pulls, slows... it becomes a ridiculous cluster f*ck. And because their's no diminishing return, you get cc'd A LOT. The resolve bar is a horrible feature that doesn't really help you over the course of battle like a DR would, because you stilll get stunlocked, and all the other cc thrown at your face. If your cc breaker is on cooldown, it will take someone about 1.5 seconds to lock you down for 10+ seconds.
Warzone's aren't competitive at all because their's no brackets. If you get a team filled with lvl 20's who have a couple talents and don't even have interupts yet vs a half team of lvl 50's with decked out pvp gear, all their talents, all their abilities, expertise. It's not even a contest. It needs brackets, but unfortunately bioware does't want brackets probably because that would mean slow queues because of a loack of cross realm bg's.
World pvp is simply nonexistent. I play on a pvp realm that has 10 minutes queues still, imps outnumber my side by a huge amount, and on illum tatooine and all the "pvp" planets I've ran into a grand total 6 imps. That's mostly because the pvp planets are surprisingly phased. When I visited tatooine earlier, their was 30-40 republic players split between two phases... So that's about 15-20 players in each phase in a very large planet.
I could keep going, but I don't want this to be too long. The pvp is jsut very bad in this game.
Originally posted by Chrisbox Well to start off on correcting you, I have been in a warzone of huttball where a lvl 10 maurader did 180k dmg, and capped it 3 times , 1 cap in the last 20 seconds of the game to win it for us so if any of you know the in game damage ratio's 180k in a warzone is alot, and we didnt have trouble with the level 50's on their team because of our superior tactics and play, its as simple as that you cant throw a lvl 10 at a 50 in a frontal assault or the winner is obvious, thats why these are objective based games not team deathmatch. The bolster system in SWTOR Makes the Winner come down to Skill. These threads to trash swtor's pvp are simply created because of one or more of these reasons: 1. lose to many warzones because you yourself are unskilled, or do not play with skilled players. Or Simply do not enjoy the objective based gameplay [ Self explanatory, take that in any way you want to] 2. Do not put yourself out there to do World pvp [ will explain more later in post] 3. Refuse to adjust to the systems this game has in comparison with others On the topic of world pvp, at the moment there is no motivation to do world pvp outside of ilum except for pure fun. If your highly interested in it, and play on a PVP server, get a pvp party together and search for republic, they may create resistance in response to seeing you all. Find a guild that organizes together pvp events throughout the world with sith or even republic players on your server, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGvWaSWVE6Q that was on LAUNCH day. So when people say world pvp isnt possible, they're highly wrong, and much like yourself " Not putting themselves out there". SWTOR takes a different approach to pvp obviously vs. other MMO's,[ except for the warzone ques obviously] for now we pvper's have to enjoy it the way we find most fit. If tatooine is empty, you posting on the forums will not make it an instant combat zone, but who knows maybe your just on a low pop server.
Classes get skills every certain lvls and with every advanced skill you do more damage aswell, besides more cc. Its not just about skill, its about damage you can dish out and take. The bolster system helps a lot of course but doesnt equal a lvl 50 in good gear and a lvl 10 in greens. You just dont have the talents and higher skills.
Well Now im not sure where but when you say not every lvl 10 can beat a 50 with just skill, I 100 percent agree. Your talking again as If in a frontal assault, a level 10 was 1v1 against a 50 and the winner is obvious, I stated that. You require superior tactics with your team to ultilize that level 10 to do the most damage/healing etc it can.
if both side are raid max and both can enter it is still raid pvp (ya lets forget world lol)raid pvp is still fun!very fun even !this alone make this game fun huttball is insane.but you are right for raid pvp they need to do something to stire it up cause people will be like why are here again and this is never good!
ps:i thot some had said there were boss in the world and that because they dropped stuff needed big battle ensued between faction ,i guess i missunderstood!
I did edit before I saw your answer, yes alright I agree what you say here. In the first days where highest players in the battlegrounds were around 30ish it was a lot more "easy" in comparison to now and its gettin worse, since more and more people reach higher levels. So its a disadvantage for newcomers or if you start an alt and doing low lvl bg pvp.
Originally posted by snapfusion BATTLEGROUNDS Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so? WORLD PVP Would like to see more of it PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.
Battlegrounds - True. Also, most classes have the same core abilites, one stun, one CC, one CC break and one push/AOE. I am level 50, and I roll with some alts on both factions. Yeah, going up against 50's are tough, but not entirely impossible. I'd like to see the bolster system explored more. It's a unique(ish) idea catering to the 'community's plea' for no cross server queueing.
They wanted to find a way to reduce queue time as much as possible, without going cross server. I applaud them for that. Huttball's a cool idea, if not enough empire players are grouper, you can get matched with the same faction; empire vs empire.
Ilum is pretty bare, it depends on your server really. It'll pick up, after all not everyone's 50 yet.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW. Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
Originally posted by spizz Classes get skills every certain lvls and with every advanced skill you do more damage aswell, besides more cc. Its not just about skill, its about damage you can dish out and take. The bolster system helps a lot of course but doesnt equal a lvl 50 in good gear and a lvl 10 in greens. You just dont have the talents and higher skills.
This really should not have to be explained, imo, as people should obviously understand it (not criticizing Spizz for posting it).
Not having access to the same number of Crowd Control spells, Healing spells, and other abilities, as the other players, is an obvious disadvantage.
Originally posted by Chrisbox You require superior tactics with your team to ultilize that level 10 to do the most damage/healing etc it can.
True, but you ae still capped at what the max potential can be.
If you have two teams facing each other, of equal tactial ability, the team with the most level 50's will win.
I would say that evan a competent team of Level 50's, would defeate a good team of Pre-30's (ie the team with the lessor player skill wins because of the advantage the Level 50's have, even against 'Bolstered' Pre-30's).
pretty much what people have been saying since beta started: PVP is an afterthought, and Mythic guys BW hired are a trainwreck.
so happy i didnt waste money on this pos.
Originally posted by spizz On ILLUM people should fight each other in a bigger area, competing, doing mass zergs and earning their pvp gear if one sides wins...in other words you have to take part in fights and win to achieve your pvp gear. But this is not how it works in practice....the pvp works like that currently: 1) 6x empire players letting pass republic opponents 2) Republic players completing their objective and empire players 3) Imperial players waiting that republic is capturing, after that they are doing the same.... So whats happening here ? They dont do pvp at all, they let the opponents pass so every side has a chance to win the round for: pvp tokens to get their champion gear in no time
Imo, the issue is that there is no 'LOSS' involved, to act as an incentive for the 'defenders' to prevent the 'attacking' team from winning.
The Tokens are there to motivate players to be aggressive, but there is nothing there to motive the players to be defensive.
And if you are not going to have negative consequences, then you need to have enough perameters in place to prevent exactly what you point out here. I am not sure what they could do, but a good start is to have something that prevents awarding tokens from 'KEEP TRADING' or 'MATCH THROWING'.
Pretty much the same crap that was WAR's downfall as well, where people just kept swapping keeps in the RvR lakes to quickly earn their gear!
Same FAIL system seems to be implemented here too. Guess they had old WAR devs from Mythic doing the PVP in this game as well! It Sure awfully smells like it!
Originally posted by JeroKane Pretty much the same crap that was WAR's downfall as well, where people just kept swapping keeps in the RvR lakes to quickly earn their gear! Same FAIL system seems to be implemented here too. Guess they had old WAR devs from Mythic doing the PVP in this game as well! It Sure awfully smells like it!
Spent all afternoon out in Ilum with no chance of flipping as all were Empire controlled.. and not one single Republic player to be seen in 3 hours. Log on to a Republic toon 'lo and behold a bunch of 50's huddled around the PvP daily quest giver on their fleet hub. At least in WAR you can go out solo roaming and be garunteed to come across the enemy faction. It's been like that for days now, go out to the PvP zone only to find we already control it and no one around to PvP against or at least fight for the objectives.
I was gonna try this game, but not if the PvP is this bad. Sad how carebear this game sounds.
God even AION had better PvP, you would get attacked if you saw the enemy almost always. Small scale roaming open world PvP is the best.
GW2 the future of MMO gaming
I like the warzones. I've played every class on Empire side (plus a few on Republic) and they all have some kind of knockback at some point in levelling. Usually a "get the frack off me" button which throws them off. I use this many times to protect a team member or take out an enemy. Why not? It's a PvP arena..if you want to duel then challenge someone outside of that venue. Every one has abilitys that can counter act another. If they're speeding to the ball/objective ..put a cc on em and catch up. Most of the OPs points can be brought up about PvP in any game.
The only point I fully agree with is level balance. Having a level 10 in with all levels up to 50 is ridiculous. Sure you're level 10 with 20,000 health but if you only have 5 basic abilities to use while others have control-breaking..cc..AOE ...DOT...and just more damage/heal capabilities all around on different cooldowns. It's ridiculous. They need to keep it down to 10 level intervals at most. 10-20...-21-30..etc. Unfortunately..with all the phasing going on and the limited populations per server...they probably could never fill a warzone this way. Might have to institute cross server PvP warzones. I know many hate this..I could care less..myself. I'd rather they retool servers to hold more people at once but that's not likely to occur. My only suggestion is don't bother with PvP until about 25th-30th level..when you have most of your key abilities and can be more competitive. You can still level pretty well in warzones from 10th level on regardless...and the credits aren't bad.
Originally posted by BarCrow I like the warzones. I've played every class on Empire side (plus a few on Republic) and they all have some kind of knockback at some point in levelling. Usually a "get the frack off me" button which throws them off. I use this many times to protect a team member or take out an enemy. Why not? It's a PvP arena..if you want to duel then challenge someone outside of that venue. Every one has abilitys that can counter act another. If they're speeding to the ball/objective ..put a cc on em and catch up. Most of the OPs points can be brought up about PvP in any game. The only point I fully agree with is level balance. Having a level 10 in with all levels up to 50 is ridiculous. Sure you're level 10 with 20,000 health but if you only have 5 basic abilities to use while others have control-breaking..cc..AOE ...DOT...and just more damage/heal capabilities all round on different cooldowns. It's ridiculous. They need to keep it down to 10 level intervals at most. 10-20...-21-30..etc. Unfortunately..with all the phasing going on and the limited populations per server...they probably could never fill a warzone this way. Might have to institute cross server PvP warzones. I know many hate this..I could care less..myself. I'd rather they retool servers to hold more people at once but that's not likely to occur. My only suggestion is don't bother with PvP until about 25th-30th level..when you have most of your key abilities and can be more competitive. You can still level pretty well in warzones from 10th level on regardless...and the credits aren't bad.
Wow, that's pathetic.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."otacu
Originally posted by supbro I was gonna try this game, but not if the PvP is this bad. Sad how carebear this game sounds. God even AION had better PvP, you would get attacked if you saw the enemy almost always. Small scale roaming open world PvP is the best.
SW;TOR isnt really a pvp centric game, so i don't think its really fair to compare it with other games that are based on pvp... likewise, anyone wholly interested in pvp gaming, wouldnt really choose SW;TOR anyway, what SW;TOR is, and is advertised to be, is a storyline based MMO themepark.. or to put it another way... you don't use a saw to hammer in nails..