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Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Staff Roundtable Review

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Comments

  • LeviathonlxLeviathonlx Cleveland, OHPosts: 135Member

    It bothers me how constricted and linear the zones are with the tiny little areas that railroad you from point A to point B. I mean Coruscant basically was the same thing 4 times. I'm enjoying the game but it does has its shortcomings. Although I'm not expecting some great ultra revolution to the genre either that some seem to want and would just accept I outgrew the genre if it got to that point.

  • ShredderSEShredderSE SthlmPosts: 197Member

    Danny Wojcicki – 6/10 

    FTW!

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    I have no idea who Danny Wojcicki is and will likely ignore his ratings in the future.  I'd be curious which MMO launches he scored an 8 or above for, just so I can laugh.  For me the only ones that qualify are SWTOR and WOW.  The rest are B grade releases. 



     

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    It's winning because there is nothing else and.... They paid for the awards
  • WarcelWarcel VitPosts: 2Member

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

    Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

    Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.




     

    The combat mechanics sux when it comes to cooldown management, rotations. My Jedi Sentinel is lvl 14 and I already have 7 attack CDS... It's like I am playing piano, I am forced to constantly eyeball my UI. For me thats bad game design. Ty

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    Seems only 1 reviewer had the balls to say it. Guess he's not getting his EA payoff.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • warbot7777warbot7777 Atlanta, GAPosts: 110Member

    I think it's funny to see all these people whine about the game. It just came out. Give them time to smooth things out. It's an amazing game and I'm highly satisified. If people don't like it then maybe it isn't for them. [mod edit]


  • GylfiGylfi LlandlowPosts: 660Member

    Originally posted by black_isle

    I support Danny Wojcicki.

    me too, the only objective opinion.

    everyone else was a bit "too" enthousiastic.

  • GylfiGylfi LlandlowPosts: 660Member

    Originally posted by veggie_eater

    Originally posted by ShredderSE

    Danny Wojcicki – 6/10 

    FTW!

    I could imagine this:

     

    Ps. Create your own version about this review backstory and post here.

     

     

    Mmorpg Boss: we had a call from Satan, he says if TOR fails it will be the first step that leads to abolishing all money in the world, plus people will awake and start asking for value in their games. He declares this shan't happen. Adds that if we don't line by his ranks in this war he will kill all the hookers who enter the office every friday. I expect great votes from you, you have to negate how dementedly boring, void of challenge the game is, make so that its being an evident LSD for people's minds is actually a quality. So that people may believe that games don't have to challenge you, just soothe you with a mellow tune you already know by heart, a game that eliminates all the need to "learn". And evil will turn good in the eyes of men, and blood will pour from clouds.

    Danny Wojcicki: life is knowing that many good actions will lead you to a sad dark life and still do them because you have so much soul you'll be happy no matter what. I'll do what's best for humankind and accept martyrdom.

    All others:  evil shall win!!!

  • haibanehaibane San Diego, CAPosts: 178Member

     

    Danny Wojcicki – 6/10

    SWTOR offers little to the MMORPG industry that hasn’t already been done. While the fully voice acted questing is a nice new feature, the lack of significance behind any of SWTOR’s countless quests causes the whole experience to fall flat. I find the gameplay in SWTOR to be bland and unoriginal, feel that the classes are a bit too simplistic, and think that the side aspects of the game, such as PVP, crafting & space combat, are all underwhelming at best. Despite this, SWTOR still comes off as a delightfully polished product with beautiful graphics, immersive audio, and an enjoyable Star Wars atmosphere. In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else.

     

    AMEN TO THAT, except that star wars fan don't like the fact that Bioware destroyed star wars lore with this game...

    You're a Hardcore Survivor!

    You not only survived the zombie apocalypse, but did it with style! Your mastery of zombie knowledge, survival tactics, and weaponry is nearly unmatched. Congratulations, for you are hardcore!

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by haibane

     

    Danny Wojcicki – 6/10

    SWTOR offers little to the MMORPG industry that hasn’t already been done. While the fully voice acted questing is a nice new feature, the lack of significance behind any of SWTOR’s countless quests causes the whole experience to fall flat. I find the gameplay in SWTOR to be bland and unoriginal, feel that the classes are a bit too simplistic, and think that the side aspects of the game, such as PVP, crafting & space combat, are all underwhelming at best. Despite this, SWTOR still comes off as a delightfully polished product with beautiful graphics, immersive audio, and an enjoyable Star Wars atmosphere. In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else.

     

    AMEN TO THAT, except that star wars fan don't like the fact that Bioware destroyed star wars lore with this game...

     

    Pretty sure the lore was destroyed with the prequels.

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    I have no idea who Danny Wojcicki is and will likely ignore his ratings in the future.  I'd be curious which MMO launches he scored an 8 or above for, just so I can laugh.  For me the only ones that qualify are SWTOR and WOW.  The rest are B grade releases. 



     

    Why insult someones opinion?

    Not every one is the same and I personally don't think WoW or SWTOR are good MMOs because I like the genre for different reasons to what these games offer.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by VoIgore

    To be fair, Pure...just recently they also closed both eyes on the many flaws of Rift when it was big on this page. There wasn't a patch that didn't require several hotfixes and barely any new feature worked out of the box. But in their daily coverage there was NEVER anything mentioned about all that - just bias and people screamed at them for that.

    It's not just SWTOR, whatever is the new big dog always gets 8+ scores from the staff...i've seen it first when King Conan took over the page years ago and it happened since then with every other blockbuster.

    Last I check Rift did get a 8 from this site, but did get hammered on its flaws by the reviewers. I am like you and do get confused by the shining reviews everywhere and it makes the game appear to have zero flaws at all.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

    Thank you.  There needs to be a serious "recalibration" of scoring on the part of the reviewers.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Mynsc

    Completely agree with Danny Wojcicki and it was refreshing to see one of the staff share this view. Disappointed thought that he was the only one... would have expected higher standards from the staff of one of the biggest MMO news sites.

    Well, no, by and large the staff at MMORPG are happy to play standard theme park MMORPG's and SWTOR is the next great step in that evolutionary chain, not surprising at all that they would favor the title, perhaps a bit more than they should have.

     

    If the mmorpg staff are considered a representative sample of mmo- gamers, then Bioware appears to have hit its mark -- won't please everyone, but makes most happy.

    Some of the more critical people on these boards really need to realize that they are possibly in a very small demographic that won't be a primary target of a game developer.  Fortunately, there are other game genres.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    As far as the actual article goes, I like the round table format.  I actually wish it could be a bit more in-depth.

    If we pretend this is gymnastics or ice-skating, we can throw out the highest and lowest scores to get an average (meaning Danny's and Bill's scores go away)....Suzie's 8, Garrett's 9, Adam's 8.5, and Luuuuuuke's 9...for an average of 34.5/40 or 86%.  Looking at it that way, the scores seem to fall more in line with what the majority expects.

    What I take away from the article though is the following --

    1.) I can't use Bill Murphy as a reference for reviews, because I consistently disagree with him. There's nothing wrong with that, we just see things differently.  I do like Bill's articles though, as they are often spot on.

    2.) I think Suzie may actually be the better reference point for me in terms of reviews as she discloses what she looks at and I think I see those same things.

    3.) I haven't read much of Garrett's work at all, but didn't really get much out of his blurb.  I also think he missed an opportunity -- It would have been nice if he commented on any issues with friends getting out of sync with their quests (or if it's not an issue -- historically that's been an issue in mmos). 

    4.) Adam''s part is basically "it's star wars and has a story."  Got that, thanks! ( ' ;

    5.) Danny, the new hero of the harshest TOR critics, probably would benefit from more than a single paragraph. It's jarring to see his score and summary compared to the other more positive reviews and so I'd be curious to know why he doesn't like the PvP or crafting.

    6.) Luuuuke's immersion is exciting to read about.  For me, story as the 4th pillar has never been an issue and so it bothers me that it is hyped as much as it is.  Story/Lore has been in numerous games, including WoW and City of Heroes in paticular and I think it's more about Bioware's bold presentation of it -- cinematics, voiceover, music -- that should be credited more than the writing team (not that the writing team shouldn't get any props, but that's the difference maker).

    In the end, I think TOR will be a wait and see approach for me.  It's one of the few games I never actually bothered to Beta, just because it didn't really entice me the way and still doesn't necessarily.  Plus, seeing the entire "recent posts" section overwhelmed with TOR forum stuff is a bit of a turn off -- I'm eager for the drama to subside....

    For those enjoying it, I hope you continue to.  For those not enjoying it, I hope you do find something genuine to enjoy, rather than ragging on other people.

  • MoiraeMoirae New Orleans, LAPosts: 2,746Member Uncommon

    Most of these reviews (except the 6/10) hit the nail on the head. I've been playing MMO's since EQ. Not since EQ2 have I felt this kind of excitement. It's hard to pull myself away. I played through 4 builds in beta (not just weekends), and 9 days into live, I still can't enough. I find myself staying up way too late just to see whats around the corner.

    And the best part? My first toon is still only level 25. I'm loving this so much that I playing every single quest I can find, even if its grey to me, because I want to know what happens.

    Now I won't say the game is perfect. There are serious things its lacking. Character creation and customization is a real problem. Housing is so seriously lacking, there aren't words. Crafting I find more frustrating than anything else, mostly because it costs so much money to do and there are so few nodes that you almost have no choice but to spend that cash (which sucks because I've always loved crafting). I really don't get why every single new MMO feels the need to start crafting at level 10 when you've already outleveled the nodes and items  you can craft. 

    That being said, the flashpoints are so much fun, the conversations make grouping much more worthwhile for me when I'm normally a complete soloer, and I LOVE how many quests there are. Usually in these games, there are just barely enough quests to allow you to level. In this game, there are so many quests that some of them are inevitably grey and green as I level. There's so many choices, and I just love it. 

  • AlienShirtAlienShirt Crashed Flying SaucerPosts: 613Member Uncommon
    I think Danny's review is the most honest of the group. I am still having fun playing SWTOR despite it failing to live up to the hype.
  • coolgycoolgy Toronto, ONPosts: 61Member

    Lets face it, you cant really even take most reviewers seriously any more. Look at game trailers, play trials/beta and experience it for yourself before you put down the $40-50. The guy that gave it a 6/10 spoke on my behalf, its a good game for star wars fans, but it really doesn't offer anything for the rest of the crowd. 

     

    Its a shame, i think bioware would've done a fantasy mmo with elves and orcs better than they did with light sabers and phasers. 

     

    And many of you seem to be getting pissy against the blows against the combat system. Action oriented combat is the future of all MMOs whether you like it or not. Its going to sweep the industry, and hotkey mmos will be tomorrow what 2d/sprite based games are today. 

     

    Even free mmos like vindictus, dragon nest and rusty hearts are more original than this game. Its just a shame they're shackled by horrible publishers and have poor customer service. That will all change though, TERA, and B&S will shake the industry in the west heavily despite originating in the East. And of GW2 is a blend of action/hotkey, we will have to wait and see how that turns out. 

     

    Anyways, this was all my opinion. 

  • LeviathonlxLeviathonlx Cleveland, OHPosts: 135Member



    Originally posted by coolgy

    Lets face it, you cant really even take most reviewers seriously any more. Look at game trailers, play trials/beta and experience it for yourself before you put down the $40-50. The guy that gave it a 6/10 spoke on my behalf, its a good game for star wars fans, but it really doesn't offer anything for the rest of the crowd. 





     





    Its a shame, i think bioware would've done a fantasy mmo with elves and orcs better than they did with light sabers and phasers. 





     





    And many of you seem to be getting pissy against the blows against the combat system. Action oriented combat is the future of all MMOs whether you like it or not. Its going to sweep the industry, and hotkey mmos will be tomorrow what 2d/sprite based games are today. 





     





    Even free mmos like vindictus, dragon nest and rusty hearts are more original than this game. Its just a shame they're shackled by horrible publishers and have poor customer service. That will all change though, TERA, and B&S will shake the industry in the west heavily despite originating in the East. And of GW2 is a blend of action/hotkey, we will have to wait and see how that turns out. 





     





    Anyways, this was all my opinion. 










     

     

    Just because you like the action oriented combat doesn't mean everyone else does nor does it mean it will be the big revolution for the genre. We have yet to see how that mechanic will be recieved by large amounts of players outside the east (where the game flopped). So until that mechanic in the few games it's in makes it here and actually succeeds it's a bit premature to say it's the almighty godsend to change everything.



     

  • coolgycoolgy Toronto, ONPosts: 61Member

    Originally posted by Leviathonlx







    Originally posted by coolgy







    Lets face it, you cant really even take most reviewers seriously any more. Look at game trailers, play trials/beta and experience it for yourself before you put down the $40-50. The guy that gave it a 6/10 spoke on my behalf, its a good game for star wars fans, but it really doesn't offer anything for the rest of the crowd. 













     













    Its a shame, i think bioware would've done a fantasy mmo with elves and orcs better than they did with light sabers and phasers. 













     













    And many of you seem to be getting pissy against the blows against the combat system. Action oriented combat is the future of all MMOs whether you like it or not. Its going to sweep the industry, and hotkey mmos will be tomorrow what 2d/sprite based games are today. 













     













    Even free mmos like vindictus, dragon nest and rusty hearts are more original than this game. Its just a shame they're shackled by horrible publishers and have poor customer service. That will all change though, TERA, and B&S will shake the industry in the west heavily despite originating in the East. And of GW2 is a blend of action/hotkey, we will have to wait and see how that turns out. 













     













    Anyways, this was all my opinion. 






















     





     





    Just because you like the action oriented combat doesn't mean everyone else does nor does it mean it will be the big revolution for the genre. We have yet to see how that mechanic will be recieved by large amounts of players outside the east (where the game flopped). So until that mechanic in the few games it's in makes it here and actually succeeds it's a bit premature to say it's the almighty godsend to change everything.










     




     

    We already HAVE games in the west featuring action combat... you may not see it because you only play games from the west or something, but you can clearly see the impact of action oriented combat in the East. Just because we dont pump out double digit MMO titles every year, its not so apparent here.

  • Equilibrium_JWEquilibrium_JW SF, CAPosts: 201Member

    The only person I am interested in reading any longer is Danny. He's apparently the only objective person in the bunch and tells it like it is. While I typically stray from calling people fanbois, 9/10 on a game with abysmal support, numerous bugs, the worst auction house in the universe (no pun intended), etc. is just well... being a fanboi.

    It's a good game. Don't get me wrong, 9/10? That's not journalism.

  • MoiraeMoirae New Orleans, LAPosts: 2,746Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by chaosngn

    The only person I am interested in reading any longer is Danny. He's apparently the only objective person in the bunch and tells it like it is. While I typically stray from calling people fanbois, 9/10 on a game with abysmal support, numerous bugs, the worst auction house in the universe (no pun intended), etc. is just well... being a fanboi.

    It's a good game. Don't get me wrong, 9/10? That's not journalism.

    rofl... so you don't agree with any of the others, which makes the only one "logical" to be the one that says 6/10. Uh huh. Dream on. You know that isn't true. 

  • cali59cali59 B, NYPosts: 1,634Member

    Originally posted by Zezda

    I'm getting really disheartened these days by the ludicrous scores people give games. I wonder if it's just that our expectations are non-existant or wether there is some other problem? It isn't even as if I'm incredibly old and miss the 'good old days'. What I do appreciate though is good game design and implementation of technologies within games (and software/hardware in general of course).

    Games should ALWAYS be scored relative to each other and by the level of standard we have come to expect from a game in this day and age. Are we really giving this game better scores just because it is Star Wars? Shouldn't we be doing the opposite given the utterly massive scale and limitless possibilities the IP brings? Fair enough, they didn't want a sandbox game and that's fine.. but comon.. You take one of the biggest and most famous IP's to have ever been created and all you managed is to copy the feature set from other products in your genre?! How did they even manage that??? Story in an MMO I hear you all say... yeah that would be true.. if story was actually the focus. I mean seriously.. the game gives you how many choices in dialogue? Proper story driven games that have had some serious work put into them make Mass Effect/Dragon Age and SW:TOR's story look like a childrens book. You want an example of story in an RPG go play Planescape: Torment and then come back and tell me SW:TOR is story driven. Let's not even get started on the fact that your, already limited, choices hardly effect anything story-wise in the first place then shall we?

    Here are some examples of games that deserve a score of 8/9 or above when they were released.

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/planescape-torment

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation/oddworld-abes-oddysee

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/counter-strike-source

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/battlefield-3

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mechwarrior-4-vengeance

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/command-conquer

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/frozen-synapse

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/sid-meiers-civilization-iii

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/sid-meiers-alpha-centauri

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/age-of-empires

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-wars-jedi-knight-jedi-academy

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare

    I played SW:TOR beta a lot when I got the chance due to boredom and you know what? It doesn't hold so much as a candle compared to those games I've listed above and that has nothing to do with having fond memories of these games, some of them I hated (Abe's Oddysee being one in particular), but instead I respect what they bring to the table for the format and genre they are within.

    So what if SW:TOR is polished? Why is it being marked up for this? We all know that a MMO that isn't polished will do terribly. Polish is expected, not a bonus. Something that is expected of more or less any game in the genre simply can't be marked as something above average unless the level of quality is leaps and bounds above the competition. So what if the combat works.. the combat in Baldur's Gate & Torment 'works' but you wouldn't expect it of an RPG from 2012 would you?! We need to stop giving out ludicrously good marks for stuff like this...

    Props to Danny for being sensible and calling it what it is. There are plenty of MMO's out there that match and even surpass the overall quality of SW:TOR, in my honest opinion. SW:TOR most certainly does not match what I would expect from one of the biggest IP's to date and it certainly does not match the quality of overall feel of a game with so much financial backing. I would personally give SW:TOR somewhere in the region of 6.5-7.0 out of 10. Had the game came out in 2007-2008 my score would have been a much better 8.5-9 out of 10. Sadly they completely missed the mark with this one by several years. No doubt it will have a good following, but then pretty much anything labeled Star Wars does.

    Wanted to quote this because the part I highlighted in orange stood out to me.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • TimacekTimacek YlinPosts: 180Member

    Originally posted by chaosngn

    The only person I am interested in reading any longer is Danny. He's apparently the only objective person in the bunch and tells it like it is. While I typically stray from calling people fanbois, 9/10 on a game with abysmal support, numerous bugs, the worst auction house in the universe (no pun intended), etc. is just well... being a fanboi.

    It's a good game. Don't get me wrong, 9/10? That's not journalism.




     

    this one

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