I have a request, in 6 months, if SW:TOR doesn't turnout to be the flop so many of you are predicting, can you please come back on here and appologize to those that are saying it is a great game? Just once I would love to see that happen.
Depends on your definition of a flop. Which I assume you are going by the 'to fail' definition. Even so, then what is your definition of fail?
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As far as to be lacking then SWTOR has already failed which then means it flopped IMO. Now I am sure you mean in an overall general opinion but still, in the sense that failing means to decline for declining in subs then that means if subs drop below 1 mil subs then it is a flop since it would be declining in strength of subs.
Actually my definition is much simpler than all that. I am going by the specifics each person is stating on these very forums every day. If thier comments in 6 months are proven false, then why shouldnt' they have to come back and say they are sorry for being wrong. Really, that simple to me. On my end, the only thing I have said about SW:TOR is that I am have fun playing it, I'm sure in 6 months I will have still had fun playing it. A statement I'm sure not everyone here can say truthfully, that what they say here is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing .......
All I am asking for is if you, or anyone else, comes on these forums and tells everyone else something like 'SW:TOR will not last past 30 days' and it does...that they come back and admit they were wrong. Not really something that should be difficult right? Sure we all have the rigth to voice our opinions, but shouldn't we be held accountable for doing exactly that?
Oh and to your opinion that it has already failed, well I already posted this link at least once before, but I'll post it again.
Doesn't look like a failure to me, and from the statistics on this news article, and the fact the game has been live what 7 days or so at this point, doesn't look like the rest of the people playing it think it is a failure too. We will see though, those 105 industry awards that were given out could all be total rubish, all those hours of time played by all those people, that were having fun, well they could all be crazy too. You willing to put your reputation on the line to say otherwise?
The problem with your 'going by the specifics each people is stating' is that not everyone has the same definition of what it is to fail or flop. Of course, you completely miss my point of what my opinion of what to fail means, which is to not meet up to my expectation and be lacking. That doesn't mean that everyone will view it as such but that is a true defintion of the word and thus to me means it is a flop. You can put up pointless statistics based on the activity of the most active period of a games lifespan but those facts are only meant for amusment and not actual data to be used to judge the game.
So, technically, you can claim that people should have to come and apoligize but anyone with half a brain would be able to twist something and still call it a flop. Again, like I stated before, for SWTOR to be a 'flop' alls it has to do is drop numbers below its assumed sub numbers at start. So, if by Jan 21st there is only 900k subs, then by definition it is still a flop even though it could still turn out to be successful eventually.
Thus, if you want to do something like this, you would have to lay down harder criteria then just if it flops or goes under completely which wouldn't happen anyway. for something like this to even be taken seriously.
Having a BALL!!!! This game has exceeded every expectation that I had.
Downside? Queue's...which by WoW''s original launch standards are miniscule (I've yet to see a queue exceed 300 (avg 150) while starting in WoW when it first launch I rerolled due to being placed 2000+ in queue.)
The staff are quick to get back to you, there's plenty to do and I've yet to get the "I'm sleepy, gonny imprint QWERTY on my forehead" feel.
"In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else."
Gonna have to disagree strongly there. I was never interested in Star Wars. I watched the original trilogy for the first time last week. Even with having no interested in Star Wars, I fell in love with this game. Being a Star Wars fan has nothing to do with whether you love or hate this game.
I was surprised none of the official reviews found anywhere on the internet or found here on this site talk about the instancing.
While I do believe the game is very good and I've been enjoying it, I do not consider it an MMO. This game could have been a four player (drop in drop out) coop game if it wanted to.
If Bioware will drop their claim that this game is an MMO with thousands of players all playing in the same game world at once then I will gladly drop any complaints with this regard.
This claim hurts real MMOs who work hard to provide an actual game world with thousands of players in it playing all at once. Be honest and tell the truth, Bioware. If you are a gamer you should support the game but do not support SW:TOR's claim as an "MMO."
Support real MMOs, friends.
Remember how a decade ago, how inspired a real MMO virtual game world was to people? The Matrix is a movie that came out in 1999. Remember Tron? Those movies either inspired or were inspired by that dream. That dream will die as long as imitation MMOs are able to pretend that they are real MMOs.
With that said, SWTOR is a very good game. I'm enjoying playing it, and support the game otherwise.
I think Danny W. is spot on with the review. Bioware didn't bring anything new to the mmorpg genre except making everything voiced. It's good for what it is, but coming from bioware I was hoping for a bit of a change from the norm in the mmorpg genre. I still am playing it but probably will leave once GW2 releases.
11 Days to max out a toon..... How refreshing will that be in a few months?....
Nothing new about the combat at all. Sometimes I think these boards are full of paid posters... btw it does happen, "Don't Believe The Hype" this does seem to sum up the game quite well.
Thats 11 days for someone playing a stupid number of hours a day. Most people who have jobs will take a month or two to get a character to max level, the experience slows down about level 30.
I cant think of the last time it took me more than a few days to get up a character on another (non F2P or korean) MMO. Last time I leveled a character on Everquest 2 it took 6 hours, yet you dont see people complaining that EQ2 has no longevitiy? WoW took about 3 days when Goblins came out. How long has that game been going now?
End game is far more important than levelling for a MMO. If all it took to get bored of a character was getting to max level, then I would have played most MMOs for less than a month.
I wonder how long people are going to put up with this rehashed combat system until they get sick of it stop buying these trash games. It might be the most immersive world in the genre, with the greatest story, using a new, beautiful engine, but if I'm going to spend 50% of my time in game doing something, I want it to be something I haven't already spent thousands of hours doing. TERA might look like trash and be a grind-fest, but at least during that grind I'll be doing something remotely enjoyable.
This game wouldn't survive 2 months without the Star Wars license....oh that's right, BioWare fanboys, who think a company that's never made an MMO before can do no wrong; I guess I'd give it 3 months.
I have two things to note about why I have come to dislike games like these.
1. Same old tab targeting combat with no ability to dodge projectiles.. What age are we in again?
2. All about the endgame pvp. Not everyone wants to pvp you know right?..
Until big companies like Bioware can get smart about actually making games that "won't be forgotton", instead of games that "do just enough to make good money", I will continue to not give a damn about the MMO industry. Nothing new means time and money just wasted.
Shocking that they all except 1 gave it an 8 and above. The mmorpg genre is so desperate for a winner they will give almost anything a good score these days. TOR is so yesterdays's news and we have played this type of mmo a billion times over and then some.
^ You want people to invest in that? People then question why most of us think you guys are paid off and crooked?
To be fair, Pure...just recently they also closed both eyes on the many flaws of Rift when it was big on this page. There wasn't a patch that didn't require several hotfixes and barely any new feature worked out of the box. But in their daily coverage there was NEVER anything mentioned about all that - just bias and people screamed at them for that.
It's not just SWTOR, whatever is the new big dog always gets 8+ scores from the staff...i've seen it first when King Conan took over the page years ago and it happened since then with every other blockbuster.
Great entry Danny. As for you others, not so much. Caught up in the novelty are we?
Well once that wears off, and it will, please tell us what you think then. Im not saying Swtor necessarily deserves a 6/10 but it sure as hell doesnt get a 9/10 either. Come on. Really? Now if you time warped from 2003 or so, then fine. But none of you have.
Swtor is fun to be had. But no its not absolutely amazing. If this didnt have the Star Wars label on it, or it wasnt based on that franchise but was somehow the same game, none of you would rate it that high whether you know it or not. Im glad at least one of you seems to understand that.
Eventually almost everyone will probably come around to what Im saying. But its going to take a few months (maybe only two) for most folks to get around to that sad fact. Swtor isnt bad. Its not necessarily good either and it sure as hell isnt "great", or "amazing". If you think that you are either way too caught up in the genre or the IP itself (likely), you're caught up in the novelty of playing a new mmo that functions very similarly to others making it easy to play (Very likely), or you havent really gamed much since the turn on the millenium.
I have to agree with all of the reviewers, except Danny. {mod edit} My personal opinion is that this game is just fun. I haven't actually looked forward to playing an MMO like this for a LONG time. That is what really matters to me. Bringing the Bioware experience to an MMO really just makes it fun. It is sort of like Mass Effect meets Star Wars, which is a good thing.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
I don't understand this whole idea that SWTOR has somehow innovated story as a '4th pillar.' The last review gushes over the story driven content. But it really isn't the first. WoW tried to do it, but ended up with the equivalant of 'newsprint': essentially facts you needed to complete a quest.
LOTRO took this to the next level with story driven quests that read like proper fiction. I'd say LOTRO was in fact the first to get this really right.
C'mon people. We're in 2011, why are we giving high scores to games that are doing the exact same thing we've had for over 7 years? If this game wasn't Star Wars or made by Bioware, nor had all that money on advertisement and PR, there's just no way this game would get high scores. It'd be getting 6 and 7s all across the board.
Yeah, it has Voice Overs, it has Graphics and it's Star Wars...but that's it. Heck, I wouldn't even call it Star Wars. Why in hell would a freaking JEDI be fetching berries for a no-name. Why is an universe so large (and by universe I mean that Star Wars's universe and lore), so limited in SWTOR. This has got to be one of the most mediocre take on the Star Wars universe. A re-skin of a tired model that has been used over and over again. If WoW did this with 10 millions, how the heck did Bioware end up with the same thing for 150 millions? Very poor management from their part to say the least.
I think this is a horrible game. I am not trying to offend anyone who likes it, but I feel the same way after trying it as many other do now. It is such a linear themepark and not even a good one at that, I don't mind themeparks but then the combat and gameplay must also be able to make up for it, this game is soooo run of the mill. Many F2P games beat this game 10 fold in combat / fun and graphics. If this wasn't a high IP from Star Wars, this game wouldn't even be noticed and would be ignored. If you think this is the best MMO have to offer, jesus, play some other games besides WoW.
I think this is a horrible game. I am not trying to offend anyone who likes it, but I feel the same way after trying it as many other do now. It is such a linear themepark and not even a good one at that, I don't mind themeparks but then the combat and gameplay must also be able to make up for it, this game is soooo run of the mill. Many F2P games beat this game 10 fold in combat / fun and graphics. If this wasn't a high IP from Star Wars, this game wouldn't even be noticed and would be ignored. If you think this is the best MMO have to offer, jesus, play some other games besides WoW.
Some people would not agree with you. It is already winning awards:
A highly recognizeable IP (that transcends gaming alone) combined with a company as large (and with much advertising $) as EA being recognized right in the middle of the holidays? Sounds completely legit.
It bothers me how constricted and linear the zones are with the tiny little areas that railroad you from point A to point B. I mean Coruscant basically was the same thing 4 times. I'm enjoying the game but it does has its shortcomings. Although I'm not expecting some great ultra revolution to the genre either that some seem to want and would just accept I outgrew the genre if it got to that point.
I have no idea who Danny Wojcicki is and will likely ignore his ratings in the future. I'd be curious which MMO launches he scored an 8 or above for, just so I can laugh. For me the only ones that qualify are SWTOR and WOW. The rest are B grade releases.
The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".
Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?
Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.
The combat mechanics sux when it comes to cooldown management, rotations. My Jedi Sentinel is lvl 14 and I already have 7 attack CDS... It's like I am playing piano, I am forced to constantly eyeball my UI. For me thats bad game design. Ty
Comments
The problem with your 'going by the specifics each people is stating' is that not everyone has the same definition of what it is to fail or flop. Of course, you completely miss my point of what my opinion of what to fail means, which is to not meet up to my expectation and be lacking. That doesn't mean that everyone will view it as such but that is a true defintion of the word and thus to me means it is a flop. You can put up pointless statistics based on the activity of the most active period of a games lifespan but those facts are only meant for amusment and not actual data to be used to judge the game.
So, technically, you can claim that people should have to come and apoligize but anyone with half a brain would be able to twist something and still call it a flop. Again, like I stated before, for SWTOR to be a 'flop' alls it has to do is drop numbers below its assumed sub numbers at start. So, if by Jan 21st there is only 900k subs, then by definition it is still a flop even though it could still turn out to be successful eventually.
Thus, if you want to do something like this, you would have to lay down harder criteria then just if it flops or goes under completely which wouldn't happen anyway. for something like this to even be taken seriously.
Having a BALL!!!! This game has exceeded every expectation that I had.
Downside? Queue's...which by WoW''s original launch standards are miniscule (I've yet to see a queue exceed 300 (avg 150) while starting in WoW when it first launch I rerolled due to being placed 2000+ in queue.)
The staff are quick to get back to you, there's plenty to do and I've yet to get the "I'm sleepy, gonny imprint QWERTY on my forehead" feel.
Can't get enough!!!!!
"In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else."
Gonna have to disagree strongly there. I was never interested in Star Wars. I watched the original trilogy for the first time last week. Even with having no interested in Star Wars, I fell in love with this game. Being a Star Wars fan has nothing to do with whether you love or hate this game.
I was surprised none of the official reviews found anywhere on the internet or found here on this site talk about the instancing.
While I do believe the game is very good and I've been enjoying it, I do not consider it an MMO. This game could have been a four player (drop in drop out) coop game if it wanted to.
If Bioware will drop their claim that this game is an MMO with thousands of players all playing in the same game world at once then I will gladly drop any complaints with this regard.
This claim hurts real MMOs who work hard to provide an actual game world with thousands of players in it playing all at once. Be honest and tell the truth, Bioware. If you are a gamer you should support the game but do not support SW:TOR's claim as an "MMO."
Support real MMOs, friends.
Remember how a decade ago, how inspired a real MMO virtual game world was to people? The Matrix is a movie that came out in 1999. Remember Tron? Those movies either inspired or were inspired by that dream. That dream will die as long as imitation MMOs are able to pretend that they are real MMOs.
With that said, SWTOR is a very good game. I'm enjoying playing it, and support the game otherwise.
Thats 11 days for someone playing a stupid number of hours a day. Most people who have jobs will take a month or two to get a character to max level, the experience slows down about level 30.
I cant think of the last time it took me more than a few days to get up a character on another (non F2P or korean) MMO. Last time I leveled a character on Everquest 2 it took 6 hours, yet you dont see people complaining that EQ2 has no longevitiy? WoW took about 3 days when Goblins came out. How long has that game been going now?
End game is far more important than levelling for a MMO. If all it took to get bored of a character was getting to max level, then I would have played most MMOs for less than a month.
I wonder how long people are going to put up with this rehashed combat system until they get sick of it stop buying these trash games. It might be the most immersive world in the genre, with the greatest story, using a new, beautiful engine, but if I'm going to spend 50% of my time in game doing something, I want it to be something I haven't already spent thousands of hours doing. TERA might look like trash and be a grind-fest, but at least during that grind I'll be doing something remotely enjoyable.
This game wouldn't survive 2 months without the Star Wars license....oh that's right, BioWare fanboys, who think a company that's never made an MMO before can do no wrong; I guess I'd give it 3 months.
I have two things to note about why I have come to dislike games like these.
1. Same old tab targeting combat with no ability to dodge projectiles.. What age are we in again?
2. All about the endgame pvp. Not everyone wants to pvp you know right?..
Until big companies like Bioware can get smart about actually making games that "won't be forgotton", instead of games that "do just enough to make good money", I will continue to not give a damn about the MMO industry. Nothing new means time and money just wasted.
Shocking that they all except 1 gave it an 8 and above. The mmorpg genre is so desperate for a winner they will give almost anything a good score these days. TOR is so yesterdays's news and we have played this type of mmo a billion times over and then some.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
So this gets a 9/10 from reviewers
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=96139
^ You want people to invest in that? People then question why most of us think you guys are paid off and crooked?
Exploitable PvP? Man, this game has won me over cause I assumed I would have had to actually work for something. Subbing ... lol.
To be fair, Pure...just recently they also closed both eyes on the many flaws of Rift when it was big on this page. There wasn't a patch that didn't require several hotfixes and barely any new feature worked out of the box. But in their daily coverage there was NEVER anything mentioned about all that - just bias and people screamed at them for that.
It's not just SWTOR, whatever is the new big dog always gets 8+ scores from the staff...i've seen it first when King Conan took over the page years ago and it happened since then with every other blockbuster.
Great entry Danny. As for you others, not so much. Caught up in the novelty are we?
Well once that wears off, and it will, please tell us what you think then. Im not saying Swtor necessarily deserves a 6/10 but it sure as hell doesnt get a 9/10 either. Come on. Really? Now if you time warped from 2003 or so, then fine. But none of you have.
Swtor is fun to be had. But no its not absolutely amazing. If this didnt have the Star Wars label on it, or it wasnt based on that franchise but was somehow the same game, none of you would rate it that high whether you know it or not. Im glad at least one of you seems to understand that.
Eventually almost everyone will probably come around to what Im saying. But its going to take a few months (maybe only two) for most folks to get around to that sad fact. Swtor isnt bad. Its not necessarily good either and it sure as hell isnt "great", or "amazing". If you think that you are either way too caught up in the genre or the IP itself (likely), you're caught up in the novelty of playing a new mmo that functions very similarly to others making it easy to play (Very likely), or you havent really gamed much since the turn on the millenium.
I have to agree with all of the reviewers, except Danny. {mod edit} My personal opinion is that this game is just fun. I haven't actually looked forward to playing an MMO like this for a LONG time. That is what really matters to me. Bringing the Bioware experience to an MMO really just makes it fun. It is sort of like Mass Effect meets Star Wars, which is a good thing.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
I don't understand this whole idea that SWTOR has somehow innovated story as a '4th pillar.' The last review gushes over the story driven content. But it really isn't the first. WoW tried to do it, but ended up with the equivalant of 'newsprint': essentially facts you needed to complete a quest.
LOTRO took this to the next level with story driven quests that read like proper fiction. I'd say LOTRO was in fact the first to get this really right.
C'mon people. We're in 2011, why are we giving high scores to games that are doing the exact same thing we've had for over 7 years? If this game wasn't Star Wars or made by Bioware, nor had all that money on advertisement and PR, there's just no way this game would get high scores. It'd be getting 6 and 7s all across the board.
Yeah, it has Voice Overs, it has Graphics and it's Star Wars...but that's it. Heck, I wouldn't even call it Star Wars. Why in hell would a freaking JEDI be fetching berries for a no-name. Why is an universe so large (and by universe I mean that Star Wars's universe and lore), so limited in SWTOR. This has got to be one of the most mediocre take on the Star Wars universe. A re-skin of a tired model that has been used over and over again. If WoW did this with 10 millions, how the heck did Bioware end up with the same thing for 150 millions? Very poor management from their part to say the least.
I think this is a horrible game. I am not trying to offend anyone who likes it, but I feel the same way after trying it as many other do now. It is such a linear themepark and not even a good one at that, I don't mind themeparks but then the combat and gameplay must also be able to make up for it, this game is soooo run of the mill. Many F2P games beat this game 10 fold in combat / fun and graphics. If this wasn't a high IP from Star Wars, this game wouldn't even be noticed and would be ignored. If you think this is the best MMO have to offer, jesus, play some other games besides WoW.
Some people would not agree with you. It is already winning awards:
http://torwars.com/2011/12/28/video-tor-named-‘game-of-the-year’-by-msnbc/
http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/27/9749572-best-multiplayer-game-of-2011
A highly recognizeable IP (that transcends gaming alone) combined with a company as large (and with much advertising $) as EA being recognized right in the middle of the holidays? Sounds completely legit.
It bothers me how constricted and linear the zones are with the tiny little areas that railroad you from point A to point B. I mean Coruscant basically was the same thing 4 times. I'm enjoying the game but it does has its shortcomings. Although I'm not expecting some great ultra revolution to the genre either that some seem to want and would just accept I outgrew the genre if it got to that point.
Danny Wojcicki – 6/10
FTW!
I have no idea who Danny Wojcicki is and will likely ignore his ratings in the future. I'd be curious which MMO launches he scored an 8 or above for, just so I can laugh. For me the only ones that qualify are SWTOR and WOW. The rest are B grade releases.
The combat mechanics sux when it comes to cooldown management, rotations. My Jedi Sentinel is lvl 14 and I already have 7 attack CDS... It's like I am playing piano, I am forced to constantly eyeball my UI. For me thats bad game design. Ty