we'll all see just how much staying power the game has over the next few months
If we are supporting Danny, on his finding a new occupation, I am all for it. Comes across as a sandbox fan, rather than giving a somewhat unbiased opinion. The game isnt some buggy POS ala SWG, there is plenty of content, the world is amazing, and the VO knocks it our of the park.
I like the way Game Informer magazine has their grading scale laid out. A 7 is your average game, with the intervals of a half point. About 1 to 2 games a yr make a 10 rating. Saying this game rates a 6 is a joke. It belongs somewhere in the 8 to 9 range according to the criteria used by GI.
I would give it an 11 out of 10, as after 5 yrs, it got me to playing MMOs again. Yes that is 11.
Then again, I know I am a fanboy, and in reality the game belongs in the 8 to 9 range as I stated prior.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Wow has spoiled everyone, its that simple, what's not simple is pulling wow off its high horse, after a few days in swtor pandas are not sounding to bad for all I get with wow I can deal with pandas, I would have thought one of these producers would have looked at wow and just said that's what I want when I develop and release a game, everyone has just failed when it comes to dethroning the king, long live wow, For The Horde baby! Two big games of 2011 and they don't even come close to the 800 pound gorilla world of warcraft, Rift = stiff as a board and Swtor is a creaking single player game with a,few chances for some co op and poor pvp, hey at least its sw themed right? No thanks jokers I will take the real deal, I will take wow.
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
I agree.
Agree sir
I know I mean reviews are only honest when they match up with your opinion right?
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
I agree.
Agree sir
I know I mean reviews are only honest when they match up with your opinion right?
No not at all and these reviews are just opinions. None of them are right but I will agree with the opinion that is close to mine.
Which... doesn't make it any more "honest" then the others... now does it? Since when does "honest" mean "close to what I think about the game"? In that case, the other "reviews" would be "honest" to me.
In truth, they are all "honest" opinions... and pretty indicative of what you see with the game currently. A lot of people like it.. some don't.
The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".
Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?
Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.
There are plenty of other ways to deliver a new and flavorful combat system. What are you referring to is called lack-luster development. I'm not a big overhead clicker (Diablo-style) type gamer, but look at that Lineage Eternal game that's being worked on. Mouse-drawing your swings? That's new. GW2 apparently throwing some twitch into their combat? Something we rarely ever see. Auto-attack and ability mashing while dealing will global cool downs and such? Almost every single game that hits the shelves. I'm getting a bit tired of it too. There are more ingredients to a solid/smooth combat system than just "how it's done," there's a certain feel factor that has to be considered that makes gameplay feel "right." +1 Danny.
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
I agree.
What is wrong with reviewers coming to an 8.25 average? Would you really rate it much lower when you take the rating of the other games into account? That's still worse than the site rating of Aion, but better than the one WoW got. While that rating might be slightly inflated, I don't see that as a reason to say they lost all credibility, especially if you actually read what they have to say about the game. Tastes will differ, that's all.
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
I agree.
What is wrong with reviewers coming to an 8.25 average? Would you really rate it much lower when you take the rating of the other games into account? That's still worse than the site rating of Aion, but better than the one WoW got. While that rating might be slightly inflated, I don't see that as a reason to say they lost all credibility, especially if you actually read what they have to say about the game. Tastes will differ, that's all.
i love MikeB, great buy. but damn...9/10 review and yet we get this post now.
3.Beta testers must have spent their time playing with their eyes closed.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I have no issues with how people rate the game.
However, I do have an issue with the above comment.
Don't go ragging on Beta testers. Don't.
All they do is test. That's it. They don't have any other power other than reporting things. Will they get fixed? Who knows. Whill things change? Who knows. But they don't have power to do anything other than give suggestions and report.
I don't say this as a Beta tester for SWToR but as a Beta tester for the now forgotten" game of Masters of Orion III. What was supposed to be an amazing follow-up to MOO II. The Beta testers screamed and shouted and reported and what was released was garbage.
Beta testing is a thankless job as no one says "hey, the game is great and things run well: NICE JOB Beta testers.
I have no doubt, after being in the closed beta of LOTRO that the Beta testers did their job and did their job well. And probably with a lot of passion.
It was up to Bioware to take that info and do with it as they would. *raises a glass to the Beta testers*
oh, for the record I give the game a solid 8. Just because I'm really enjoying myself.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What is wrong with reviewers coming to an 8.25 average? Would you really rate it much lower when you take the rating of the other games into account? That's still worse than the site rating of Aion, but better than the one WoW got. While that rating might be slightly inflated, I don't see that as a reason to say they lost all credibility, especially if you actually read what they have to say about the game. Tastes will differ, that's all.
i love MikeB, great buy. but damn...9/10 review and yet we get this post now.
not to mention the rave reviews of Warhammer Online when that came out. got much of the same scores as TOR. 9/10's, 5/5's etc.
We (I) have to give them a little slack. They did say this is NOT a real review, that that would be coming later. So it is their OPINION right now.
So the above and some i have ragged on have a cause to poke at me anyhow:P This is not reviews, even though from the way it was presented with the scores it sure looked and sounded like some.
I still say that if you are going to give anything a score, you need to have something to compare it too, and not get too carried away with the high scores. Have the high scores mean something, when they are used.
I expect a high score game to be something near perfect and special. Not just the latest release.
I just have to clarify the statement expressed at the end of the 6/10 reviewer. It's great for NEO star wars fans. (i.e. fans of episodes 1-3. read: fans of force unleashed, fans of the new direction the star wars franchise has taken in this new millenia and not necessarily fans of the original trilogy, where being a jedi and having the force doesn't mean something, isn't special or exotic, isn't untamed nor incapable of pulling star destroyers down from space, where the technology of the future was WORSE and surprisingly more ineffectual than the technology of the past, where all smugglers are cliched stereotypes of han solo who wouldn't even be born for thousands of years, where half the playable classes use lightsabers because they are distributed at birth along with immunization vaccine shots, where bounty hunters make boba fett look like an amatuer, where sandbox is frowned upon compared to themeparks just like real life.) just wanted to clarify. next generation star wars fans, not old school ones per se.
Im with danny on this one. I am personally already done with the game...It just doesn't feel innovative enough. I don't want to play wow. there is a reason i stopped playing wow 9 months ago. It has room to grow and there are some things that can make better but right now I am looking at gw2.
Edit: If I was a mmo noobie and I tried wow and then this shortly after I know I would pick swtor over it any day. The game is good but just not for me I suppose.
SWTOR is your basic MMORPG, but done better. I was losing faith in the MMO scene with the recent titles, even RIFT was boring.
But I have to admit, I am having a lot of fun playing this game, and I'm actually excited to do quests! Just to see the choices I can make and what direction I can take my character. To me this is where the game truimphs!
Don't get me wrong though, the ques and the shit customer support does suck. But honestly, there hasn't been MMO company that hasn't lacked in CS deparament. As for the ques, they stated that they are working to address those issues. I'm willing to suck it up and deal with it as long as the game remains entertaining.
I'm enjoying the game as something else to play at the moment but don't find it anything that unique and special. I dislike the lack of creative races and how every race has the same exact model and animation set except for different heads (you can't deny that is laziness on their modelers part). That was a big part that made me dislike Rift and SWToR is no different really since every race basically cna be summed up as 'human with a skin condition'. Thing is there are races that can be Jedi and other classes that speak basic that are not overly human looking such as the Cathar (who are in game). The worlds are neat but feel incredibly constricted and I am following a valley from point A to point B like I did in Aion most the time. The voice acting is cool and it does give the questing less a grindy feel but I do find myself skipping it enough as well to just cut to the chase.
I'm enjoying the game as something else to play at the moment but don't find it anything that unique and special. I dislike the lack of creative races and how every race has the same exact model and animation set except for different heads (you can't deny that is laziness on their modelers part).
There is the legacy system and seeing how most romances end in adoption/making babies I see playable Cathars and Torugas in the near future.
I agree with Danny Wojcicki. The game, while technically solid and mostly bug free, is just a WoW grind with light sabers. Nothing original, nothing ground breaking, just the same old, same old with a little "schwooom" light saber eye candy.
Canceled sub, will go back to Skyrim and hope 2012 MMO's, are a bit more innovative.
I agree with Danny Wojcicki. The game, while technically solid and mostly bug free,
I don't get the 6/10 rating.
As someone who wishes to write reviews someday I don't see how one can say, "This is a solid and well made product, but because its like product X its not that great."
Wish there where more honest videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.
I agree.
Agree sir
I know I mean reviews are only honest when they match up with your opinion right?
No not at all and these reviews are just opinions. None of them are right but I will agree with the opinion that is close to mine.
Which... doesn't make it any more "honest" then the others... now does it? Since when does "honest" mean "close to what I think about the game"? In that case, the other "reviews" would be "honest" to me.
In truth, they are all "honest" opinions... and pretty indicative of what you see with the game currently. A lot of people like it.. some don't.
Are SW:TOR players a new kind of intergralist sect?
Can i or anyone have a differnt opinion which is not passively positive to something they (ie: you m8) think is "THE TRUTH"?
Danny's review is very objective for me. The game, for a seasoned player like me is barely mediocre. For a SW fan, or for anyone new to MMOs is a well made product, and they will enjoy it.
I hope, being this an MMO specific website, these other reviewers are not all new to MMOs or just SW fan because this will made the review skewed and unobjective, simply failing at what journalism is.
Don't worry i won't come to play and spoil your swotor. May the schwartz be with you.
I agree with Danny Wojcicki. The game, while technically solid and mostly bug free,
I don't get the 6/10 rating.
As someone who wishes to write reviews someday I don't see how one can say, "This is a solid and well made product, but because its like product X its not that great."
The six of ten makes perfect sense. It's a good game, polished enough to set it above average, with very little to offer mechanically that you haven't done before. Six's and seven's best represent my perspective, and seem to take the entire game into consideration rather than just the excitement of playing a Star Wars MMO during it's initial stage of release.
"A tired and dated concept," as another poster above me phrased it, is a simplistic though precise manner of justifying the six's and seven's out there.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Are SW:TOR players a new kind of intergralist sect?
Can i or anyone have a differnt opinion which is not passively positive to something they (ie: you m8) think is "THE TRUTH"?
Danny's review is very objective for me. The game, for a seasoned player like me is barely mediocre. For a SW fan, or for anyone new to MMOs is a well made product, and they will enjoy it.
I hope, being this an MMO specific website, these other reviewers are not all new to MMOs or just SW fan because this will made the review skewed and unobjective, simply failing at what journalism is.
Don't worry i won't come to play and spoil your swotor. May the schwartz be with you.
I've played MMOs for over a decade now, along with plenty of other genres for multiple decades, I have no doubts that many of the "reviewers" in the roundtable have had more than an adequate amount of time playing MMOs over the years. What stands out at the end is, what is "true" for one opinion, isn't for another.
If you want to grade on mechanics and features alone, on what BioWare created and how it is executed, thats one thing, but thats not all of what reviews encompass... reviews are subject to the objectivity of the reviewer when focusing on the most important aspect of the game, and its fundamental purpose -- FUN.
Can games be fun even if they bring nothing "new" to the genre? Yes. Can you enjoy a game even if you've played something just like it before? Yes. (cue the montage of video game sequels)
Had there not been a 6/10 reviewer and all of these were 8s and 9s, we would have had complaints that MMORPG.com has been bought out (again) as it seems they constantly get bought out by every game that receives positive reviews.
As someone who wishes to write reviews someday I don't see how one can say, "This is a solid and well made product, but because its like product X its not that great."
What? He never said it was either of those. He pointed out some areas of the game that he thought were polished and that is all. You may want to work on your attention to detail if you do want to write reviews some day.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
OMg i can't beleive you are rating this game higher than GW2!?!?!?!
If we are supporting Danny, on his finding a new occupation, I am all for it. Comes across as a sandbox fan, rather than giving a somewhat unbiased opinion. The game isnt some buggy POS ala SWG, there is plenty of content, the world is amazing, and the VO knocks it our of the park.
I like the way Game Informer magazine has their grading scale laid out. A 7 is your average game, with the intervals of a half point. About 1 to 2 games a yr make a 10 rating. Saying this game rates a 6 is a joke. It belongs somewhere in the 8 to 9 range according to the criteria used by GI.
I would give it an 11 out of 10, as after 5 yrs, it got me to playing MMOs again. Yes that is 11.
Then again, I know I am a fanboy, and in reality the game belongs in the 8 to 9 range as I stated prior.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree.
I know I mean reviews are only honest when they match up with your opinion right?
Which... doesn't make it any more "honest" then the others... now does it? Since when does "honest" mean "close to what I think about the game"? In that case, the other "reviews" would be "honest" to me.
In truth, they are all "honest" opinions... and pretty indicative of what you see with the game currently. A lot of people like it.. some don't.
What are you talking about? GW2 isn't out yet, so how could they review it already?
There are plenty of other ways to deliver a new and flavorful combat system. What are you referring to is called lack-luster development. I'm not a big overhead clicker (Diablo-style) type gamer, but look at that Lineage Eternal game that's being worked on. Mouse-drawing your swings? That's new. GW2 apparently throwing some twitch into their combat? Something we rarely ever see. Auto-attack and ability mashing while dealing will global cool downs and such? Almost every single game that hits the shelves. I'm getting a bit tired of it too. There are more ingredients to a solid/smooth combat system than just "how it's done," there's a certain feel factor that has to be considered that makes gameplay feel "right." +1 Danny.
What is wrong with reviewers coming to an 8.25 average? Would you really rate it much lower when you take the rating of the other games into account? That's still worse than the site rating of Aion, but better than the one WoW got. While that rating might be slightly inflated, I don't see that as a reason to say they lost all credibility, especially if you actually read what they have to say about the game. Tastes will differ, that's all.
i love MikeB, great buy. but damn...9/10 review and yet we get this post now.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336609/page/1
not to mention the rave reviews of Warhammer Online when that came out. got much of the same scores as TOR. 9/10's, 5/5's etc.
remember when people just played games they liked?
now we argue about games more then play them it seems :P
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I have no issues with how people rate the game.
However, I do have an issue with the above comment.
Don't go ragging on Beta testers. Don't.
All they do is test. That's it. They don't have any other power other than reporting things. Will they get fixed? Who knows. Whill things change? Who knows. But they don't have power to do anything other than give suggestions and report.
I don't say this as a Beta tester for SWToR but as a Beta tester for the now forgotten" game of Masters of Orion III. What was supposed to be an amazing follow-up to MOO II. The Beta testers screamed and shouted and reported and what was released was garbage.
Beta testing is a thankless job as no one says "hey, the game is great and things run well: NICE JOB Beta testers.
I have no doubt, after being in the closed beta of LOTRO that the Beta testers did their job and did their job well. And probably with a lot of passion.
It was up to Bioware to take that info and do with it as they would. *raises a glass to the Beta testers*
oh, for the record I give the game a solid 8. Just because I'm really enjoying myself.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
We (I) have to give them a little slack. They did say this is NOT a real review, that that would be coming later. So it is their OPINION right now.
So the above and some i have ragged on have a cause to poke at me anyhow:P This is not reviews, even though from the way it was presented with the scores it sure looked and sounded like some.
I still say that if you are going to give anything a score, you need to have something to compare it too, and not get too carried away with the high scores. Have the high scores mean something, when they are used.
I expect a high score game to be something near perfect and special. Not just the latest release.
I just have to clarify the statement expressed at the end of the 6/10 reviewer. It's great for NEO star wars fans. (i.e. fans of episodes 1-3. read: fans of force unleashed, fans of the new direction the star wars franchise has taken in this new millenia and not necessarily fans of the original trilogy, where being a jedi and having the force doesn't mean something, isn't special or exotic, isn't untamed nor incapable of pulling star destroyers down from space, where the technology of the future was WORSE and surprisingly more ineffectual than the technology of the past, where all smugglers are cliched stereotypes of han solo who wouldn't even be born for thousands of years, where half the playable classes use lightsabers because they are distributed at birth along with immunization vaccine shots, where bounty hunters make boba fett look like an amatuer, where sandbox is frowned upon compared to themeparks just like real life.) just wanted to clarify. next generation star wars fans, not old school ones per se.
Im with danny on this one. I am personally already done with the game...It just doesn't feel innovative enough. I don't want to play wow. there is a reason i stopped playing wow 9 months ago. It has room to grow and there are some things that can make better but right now I am looking at gw2.
Edit: If I was a mmo noobie and I tried wow and then this shortly after I know I would pick swtor over it any day. The game is good but just not for me I suppose.
SWTOR is your basic MMORPG, but done better. I was losing faith in the MMO scene with the recent titles, even RIFT was boring.
But I have to admit, I am having a lot of fun playing this game, and I'm actually excited to do quests! Just to see the choices I can make and what direction I can take my character. To me this is where the game truimphs!
Don't get me wrong though, the ques and the shit customer support does suck. But honestly, there hasn't been MMO company that hasn't lacked in CS deparament. As for the ques, they stated that they are working to address those issues. I'm willing to suck it up and deal with it as long as the game remains entertaining.
I'm enjoying the game as something else to play at the moment but don't find it anything that unique and special. I dislike the lack of creative races and how every race has the same exact model and animation set except for different heads (you can't deny that is laziness on their modelers part). That was a big part that made me dislike Rift and SWToR is no different really since every race basically cna be summed up as 'human with a skin condition'. Thing is there are races that can be Jedi and other classes that speak basic that are not overly human looking such as the Cathar (who are in game). The worlds are neat but feel incredibly constricted and I am following a valley from point A to point B like I did in Aion most the time. The voice acting is cool and it does give the questing less a grindy feel but I do find myself skipping it enough as well to just cut to the chase.
There is the legacy system and seeing how most romances end in adoption/making babies I see playable Cathars and Torugas in the near future.
I agree with Danny Wojcicki. The game, while technically solid and mostly bug free, is just a WoW grind with light sabers. Nothing original, nothing ground breaking, just the same old, same old with a little "schwooom" light saber eye candy.
Canceled sub, will go back to Skyrim and hope 2012 MMO's, are a bit more innovative.
I don't get the 6/10 rating.
As someone who wishes to write reviews someday I don't see how one can say, "This is a solid and well made product, but because its like product X its not that great."
I agree with Danny.
This game might be great if it's your first MMO, I just think it is a tired and dated concept.
Are SW:TOR players a new kind of intergralist sect?
Can i or anyone have a differnt opinion which is not passively positive to something they (ie: you m8) think is "THE TRUTH"?
Danny's review is very objective for me. The game, for a seasoned player like me is barely mediocre. For a SW fan, or for anyone new to MMOs is a well made product, and they will enjoy it.
I hope, being this an MMO specific website, these other reviewers are not all new to MMOs or just SW fan because this will made the review skewed and unobjective, simply failing at what journalism is.
Don't worry i won't come to play and spoil your swotor. May the schwartz be with you.
The six of ten makes perfect sense. It's a good game, polished enough to set it above average, with very little to offer mechanically that you haven't done before. Six's and seven's best represent my perspective, and seem to take the entire game into consideration rather than just the excitement of playing a Star Wars MMO during it's initial stage of release.
"A tired and dated concept," as another poster above me phrased it, is a simplistic though precise manner of justifying the six's and seven's out there.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I've played MMOs for over a decade now, along with plenty of other genres for multiple decades, I have no doubts that many of the "reviewers" in the roundtable have had more than an adequate amount of time playing MMOs over the years. What stands out at the end is, what is "true" for one opinion, isn't for another.
If you want to grade on mechanics and features alone, on what BioWare created and how it is executed, thats one thing, but thats not all of what reviews encompass... reviews are subject to the objectivity of the reviewer when focusing on the most important aspect of the game, and its fundamental purpose -- FUN.
Can games be fun even if they bring nothing "new" to the genre? Yes. Can you enjoy a game even if you've played something just like it before? Yes. (cue the montage of video game sequels)
Had there not been a 6/10 reviewer and all of these were 8s and 9s, we would have had complaints that MMORPG.com has been bought out (again) as it seems they constantly get bought out by every game that receives positive reviews.
What? He never said it was either of those. He pointed out some areas of the game that he thought were polished and that is all. You may want to work on your attention to detail if you do want to write reviews some day.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.