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Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Staff Roundtable Review

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Comments

  • wesleyartswesleyarts Roswell, GAPosts: 43Member

    Originally posted by plescure

     

    completely agree with Danny on this one. He summed it up very nicely and i think time will prove him right at the end of the initail 30 days when 70-80% of ppl fail to re-sub

     

    Well said wise friend, we will watch this eating popcorn as we do with old repeatable movies.

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  • AsamofAsamof La Canada, CAPosts: 738Member Uncommon

    gonna wait till this goes F2P before trying it out. i'm going to guess a year or two before the switch

  • jannisary13jannisary13 IstanbulPosts: 2Member

    ?ll pay billon dolar for game items and otherthinks but never pay 1 dollar for the game time . so f2p i choose. not this money problem . loo  llo o l l

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    I think the new genre of gaming is griping... complaining about anything and everything because you can.  The games themselves are just fodder for the sport.  People always use WoW as this great measuring stick, as if it's not constantly being bashed by the very people who play it.  So in the end, all games suck... it's the degree of suckiness that people seem to be in disagreement about.  Perhaps instead of fooling ourselves by giving reviews which would suggest the possibility that it might actually be fun, we should be giving reviews as to how really bad the game is at this or that... and award the worst MMORPG with a prize award for meeting everyones expectations.  Spoiled are we... for we have more games to play now than ever and instead of enjoying what we have, we complain about it.  What if tomorrow there were no electricity.  No more electronic games ever again.  How really bad were these games when faced with having none of them?  Such a cynical society we all live in, no wonder we are forever trying to kill one another.

  • TalinTalin West Babylon, NYPosts: 824Member

    I agree with the comments made by the staff, especially at launch. The game is being reviewed based on how it is today, not on the longevity of the experience.

    Fast forward to six months from now with a re-review, it will be interesting to see what Bioware brings to the table to continue the cinematic experience and keep bringing players back. If they don't continue to expand and start to innovate, the game will quickly go stale. (This from a huge fanboy of the game).

  • cippalippacippalippa MilanoPosts: 109Member

    Wish there where more honest  videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.

  • KappadonnaKappadonna Raleigh, NCPosts: 74Member

    Danny is correct. The game is mediocre.

    Look. This game has an empty world, the layout structure is of non-MMO calibur. What am I talking about? How about extremely instanced zones, tons of the legendary Bioware loading screens, and box/hallway instances. Narrow, linear paths with no real distingushiable open world environments. We all know that once upon a time we liked Warcraft and with that said we could easily distinguish the 'hot spots' in that game; X-Roads at the Barrens, Redridge, Ashenvale ... every zone in that game felt original, different, and had plenty of spots where people either constantly fought (PvP) or could recognize. There is NOTHING of that in Star Wars. Every level design is the same. The world is empty and hollow. Flat. Barren. Boring. Hell. Most of the NPCs aren't even selectable entities - they are part of the background. Don't believe me? Try clicking on them ... you can't. 

    It's not that Star Wars is a bad game but it isn't really a true MMORPG. It plays more like a Co-Op RPG. The social side, persistent world, and open-world aspects (which are the strengths of what a true MMO are) are non-existent in this game. Classes play too similar, PvP is laughably boring, and the armor meshes are hideous. It's funny we are even given a character creation screen since 90% of people have robes that you can't hide covering their face and everyone looks damn near identical due to the lack of the art department crafting some decent looking clothing/armor. 

    I really don't see SWTOR having a long lasting appeal like WoW did. Yes, it's something new and different, but in no way is this some gem of an MMORPG. It looks better than it is simply because it is better than just about anything that's come out the past few years. But please; don't kid yourself. This isn't some next-gen true MMORPG experience. It isn't even a real MMO. Cooperative Online RPG at best.

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    ^^ makes sense good point
  • Happyguy83Happyguy83 Phoenix, AZPosts: 264Member

    I love that all of the haters are creaming their pants over Danny's reveiw.

     

    And all of the positive ones?

     

    Yeah their just being paid off by Bioware and EA.

  • StanlyStankoStanlyStanko Stanksville, OHPosts: 269Member Common

    Originally posted by Happyguy83

    I love that all of the haters are creaming their pants over Danny's reveiw.

     

    And all of the positive ones?

     

    Yeah their just being paid off by Bioware and EA.

    Yeah they get one lil bone of a 6/10 and they're still frothing with hate. Sad.

  • onehunerdperonehunerdper corpus christi, TXPosts: 837Member

    No offense, I love Star Wars, but this game is on the level of Rift.  It's not really anything new.  It looks great, the story is amazing, but then what? A successful MMO is built on endgame.  Nothing that Bioware sells this game on will stay fresh and exciting after you've done the engame over and over again.  I see this going the way of Rift and DC Universe, great looking game, will probably get a lot of converts, but will sputter for years on the hopes and dreams of Star Wars fans and those bored with every other tired game on the market.  Then every time there's a "new" game a little chunk of it's player base will leave for greener pastures. 

    Hopefully some truly revolutionary game will come along that lets you actually do epic things. I mean come on there are lots of things to add and combine all together for an epic feel:

    Moving combat, aimed attacks, epic quests for actual prestige, player housing, player built cities that can be destoryed, in game wars on massive NPC scales that effect land control, not having everything instanced, single server gaming, guild cities, player run governments, environemnts being changed by the decisions of the faction, no dragons, acts of God (tornadoes, wild fires, hurricanes), flucuating animal populations actually affected by player hunting, crafting actually effecting the strength of your side, evolving tactics, smarter AI, heck even human controlled AI, unrestricted skill trees, npc organizations that evolve with the territory, non static NPC involment for Christ sake, single completion quests for in game stats, rotating exploration discoveries, world mysteries that evolve (Google exists, why don't we try and change things up so people can't just google it), naval warfare, actual space combat, planetary invasions, land sea and air co-ops, environmental faction bonuses, game changing events on a massive scale, fast travel that makes sense and actually requires important objects or costs something, so much content, so well done, that you don't need a mount, non static NPC movements, better damage to death ratios (I mean really 20 strikes with a lightsaber or blaster on a Jawa/animal?!), and on and on and on.

    I mean these aren't all good ideas but in some form or fashion to some degree something needs to be done. These games have gotten stale.  I don't have all the answers but I wish someone at these freaking companies with millions of dollars would try something new and do it well instead of the safe plays we've been handed and everyone saying it's the second coming of Christ every single time it's realeased LOL.


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  • Happyguy83Happyguy83 Phoenix, AZPosts: 264Member

    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    .These games have gotten stale. 

    Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

     

    The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member

    "In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else."

    Could be true for the most people, but:

    I'm a Star Trek fan, but I don't like Star Trek Online.

    I'm NOT a Star Wars fan, but I LOVED pre-CU SWG, and I'm indifferent towards SWTOR.

    For me, quality and fun of SWTOR is on level par with STO, Champions Online, LOTRO... and those are free to play. Waiting on something new.

  • onehunerdperonehunerdper corpus christi, TXPosts: 837Member

    Originally posted by Happyguy83

    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    .These games have gotten stale. 

    Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

     

    The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

    LOL, wow really? If you don't think the genre has become stale you must be pretty easily entertained.  It's been almost 15 years and the only thing that has really improved dramtically are the graphics...and they're still sub-par, but that's due to limitations on the size usually.

     

    I didn't say it needed all of them, I said there needs to be more and new things and listed a few, maybe if you'd stop flaming and being so prejudice against anyone who doesn't salivate over the same crap dressed up a different way you could read what I posted rationally.

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  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member

    You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!

    Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!

    ...

     

  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!

    Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!

    ...

     

    You're comparing apples and oranges.

    Video games industry has been EVOLVING along with the times. Might as well compare SWTOR with PONG.

  • onehunerdperonehunerdper corpus christi, TXPosts: 837Member

    Originally posted by wizyy

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!

    Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!

    ...

     

    You're comparing apples and oranges.

    Video games industry has been EVOLVING along with the times. Might as well compare SWTOR with PONG.


     

    What he said.  You'll also note that Chess isn't exactly the most widespread, uber popular game, nor does it have a mainstream following.  Of course if we're talking board games there have been a ton of improments over the years with new innovative games springing up that have kept that genre alive. 

    As far as card games go, some of them have gone digital, but there's only so much you can do on paper 2d products.  Didn't YuGIOh or whatever move to some sort of digital handheld device on a stage thing or something? Also look at the different games and strategies for the card game industry.  Texas Hold'em is an excellent example, a relatively new game built on a centuries old medium, with completely different play strategies and rules.  Also you'll note the massive amount of online poker games, with things to buy, avatars, and such.  So to say that either of your examples fit into a tired or non evolving genre is ignorant.

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  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member

    You can compare Pong to SWTOR. Are they fun? Yes, pong is fun. SWTOR is fun. Which has more variety? SWTOR. Does that make Pong any less fun? No.

    And note, video games are "evolving" not "revolutionizing". I've played with game mechanics like these since 1991 (MUD's). The ONLY thing that has changed is graphics and sound.

  • Happyguy83Happyguy83 Phoenix, AZPosts: 264Member

    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    Originally posted by Happyguy83


    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    .These games have gotten stale. 

    Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

     

    The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

    LOL, wow really? If you don't think the genre has become stale you must be pretty easily entertained. 

    No I just know a good game when I play one and the only good MMOs out would be GW, WoW and TOR (maybe RIFT) everything else is absolute shit and not really worth my time.

     

    Even if starility was a problem for you there are a shit ton of other MMOs for you to play that have a lot of thing that you are asking for.

     

    And no I don't think the genre is stale, I think the people who have been playing to same sort of games for 15 years are going to get just a tiny bit burned out.

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member
    Please note, we're talking about the combat mechanics being "unoriginal and bland". Not how pretty they look. Presentation (video poker etc) doesn't change how the game mechanics work. Texas Hold 'Em has been around for a long time btw. I have an ancient book of card games and it's in it (in several flavors). Apparently, it was created in Texas in the early 1900's (Wiki I know I know).

    Anyways, the gameplay mechanics of combat in MMO's comes in two flavors: the old mud style (which visually is "Tab targetting") and the FPS style (aimed). Aimed wasn't possible in text-based MUD's, for obvious reasons. So yes, presentation can allow new mechanics. But we've not had a change in presentation since Meridian 59. UO was 2D, and more MUD-like. So, the "unoriginal and bland" comment about combat can be said about every MMO since Meridian 59 and whichever MMO first used the FPS style (which not everyone likes).
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    FOR ME.....the game is not there yet. I want a game that offers great pve...great crafting and great faction conflict. I would say the game has the pve and crafting. The faction conflict(persistent world 24/7   just isn't there yet.The conflict is my motivation to build a great character...craft...and really immerse myself.And so....I wait....and watch.....and hope.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,276Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    Originally posted by Happyguy83


    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    .These games have gotten stale. 

    Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

     

    The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

    LOL, wow really? If you don't think the genre has become stale you must be pretty easily entertained.  It's been almost 15 years and the only thing that has really improved dramtically are the graphics...and they're still sub-par, but that's due to limitations on the size usually.

     

    I didn't say it needed all of them, I said there needs to be more and new things and listed a few, maybe if you'd stop flaming and being so prejudice against anyone who doesn't salivate over the same crap dressed up a different way you could read what I posted rationally.

     

    Theres nothing wrong with being "easily entertained"... if you've ever played an FPS game.. congratulations, you've played the single most repeated, generic combat style in the genre, rehashed and re-edited for mass enjoyment.   

     

    Being able to play a game and enjoy it has nothing to do with being "simple minded" or liking something thats "dumbed down" or anything... all it requires is being able to enjoy something fun without the propaganda, stigma and bullshit people seem to want to impress on these games they "don't like"  that most of them have - never tried - all for the sake of keeping a *reputation* of being so amazing, hardcore, and "true to the genre".    

     

    People like to say this game is the same crap - but - it has lightsabers, and voiceovers, and companions and.. etcetera...  well... that isn't the same,  it actually is quite engrossing, entertaining, and enjoyable if people could get out of their head and see things plainly.  You don't have to like every game you play,  but you'd think people who have played games before, especially very poorly made games,  could easily tell how far above them SWTOR is....    Unfortunately, all we have are theorists trying to decry everything while blindly waiting for their next disappointment.  Thats no way to live.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


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  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,378Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Please note, we're talking about the combat mechanics being "unoriginal and bland". Not how pretty they look. Presentation (video poker etc) doesn't change how the game mechanics work. Texas Hold 'Em has been around for a long time btw. I have an ancient book of card games and it's in it (in several flavors). Apparently, it was created in Texas in the early 1900's (Wiki I know I know).



    Anyways, the gameplay mechanics of combat in MMO's comes in two flavors: the old mud style (which visually is "Tab targetting") and the FPS style (aimed). Aimed wasn't possible in text-based MUD's, for obvious reasons. So yes, presentation can allow new mechanics. But we've not had a change in presentation since Meridian 59. UO was 2D, and more MUD-like. So, the "unoriginal and bland" comment about combat can be said about every MMO since Meridian 59 and whichever MMO first used the FPS style (which not everyone likes).

     I laugh at some peoples attempts to prove points with bad analogies. It's still apples and oranges. Cards and card games may not have evolved, but we don't expect them to nor do they have competition competing for your dollars so they don't have to while videogames do. Since TOR chose to have a sub model, isn't it expected that people will want more than the same things that are out there?

    While I disagree with the reviews, I do agree with some of the comments made in the review and can understand how they came to them. I also think the scores are high when basing them off of the words in the review. It's almost like they hung the scores on polish and story alone and not overall gameplay. To me it seems like a polished shell of a game that should have been a B2P seing as how it is really just KOTOR 3. Game is probably worth the money for a play through to see the story but I anticipate the new car smell to wear off very fast.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • IsaneIsane EnglandPosts: 2,629Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Poor Danny Wojcicki, the sacrificial lamb to appease the detractors? :)

    Great to read all your impressions though. I can only echo most of them.

     




     



    Not sacrificial at all but their views overall are representative in general. Which is a massive plus for SWTOR...

    Remember most people who visit this site are the dissalusioned i.e the majority here which is not representative of the real world, or people who want a laugh and come to view the opinions of the deluded and laugh.

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    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • IsaneIsane EnglandPosts: 2,629Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by PyrateLV



    Originally posted by Agricola1



    Agree with you guys except for the grinch Danny Wojcicki, I think the rest of the MMORPG.com staff need to gang up and shove the coffee machine up his backside then order a double exspresso! I bet he rolled on a PvP server as republic and got raped as soon as he hit tatooine then uninstalled and sat with an upset face all Christmas in the dark listening to Leonard Cohen records!






     

    LOL Danny Wojcicki is the ONLY one that at least has an non-bias opinion. Everyone else is a Fanbot. Any "professional" reviewer that gave SWTOR anything beyond a 7 should just stop reviewing games because its obvious where your loyalty lies (in the pocket of whatever Dev Company has the newest shiney game out).




     

    In comparrison to other MMOs out there at the moment it deserves the scores. This is nothing more than a well implemented MMO; with more content and depth RPG wise that near any MMO has had to date.

    Rate it down as much as you see fit but at least baseline it against something. Danny Rating it 6 is fine as long as other games " " are rated at 4...

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

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