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I can admit when i'm wrong, can you? A New King Crowned? (Poll)

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Comments

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

    image
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    *snip*

     and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

     Then you know more than anyone else out here. Have you checked out the GW cash shop? Very little is known about the GW2 cash shop, other than that it should not give a player any advantage over another player. So it should be cosmetics, extra character slots, DLC maybe. If that's what you mean with 'fully featured cash shop" then I doubt that will cause much crying anywhere (except maybe on TOR forums).

    If you're looking for satire sketch material, you can always reread your own posts in, let's say, 4 months time. You just might have other insights by then. Who knows? Wait and see...

    imageimage
  • wesleyartswesleyarts Roswell, GAPosts: 43Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. 

    Well WoW had no big Ip and made history, AoC, DCUO and LOTRO have a known IP and failed. All went f2p. Rift has not known IP and is a sucess for  Trion standards.  You logic failed! image

     

    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. 

     

    If they turn out to be good, people will hear about it.  That's the way the video game industry works.  Hype might sell a bunch of boxes at first, but truly good games make up the difference many times over in the long run.  Note, that's a big "if."  We'll have to wait and see if they're actually any good, but if they are, that will bring a lot more success than any IP ever could.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    Can I have a look at your crystal ball, because i think its malfunctioning.

    image
  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by wesleyarts

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

     

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. 

    Well WoW had no big Ip and made history, AoC, DCUO and LOTRO have a known IP and failed. All went f2p. Rift has not known IP and is a sucess for  Trion standards.  You logic failed! image

     

     

    Ah! my logic is sound it is just that its on such a higher plane that you may never be able to comprehend it and if you do you wil have such a eureka moment your name would become so famous it would supersede Archemides as the originator of the word eureka.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

     

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    Can I have a look at your crystal ball, because i think its malfunctioning.

     

    OH! its working perfectly you would see if you looked hard enough.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

     

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    Can I have a look at your crystal ball, because i think its malfunctioning.

    OH! its working perfectly you would see if you looked hard enough.

    Is this like the Emperors New Clothes?

    image
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    *snip*

    Is this like the Emperors New Clothes?

     Touché!

    imageimage
  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

     

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    Can I have a look at your crystal ball, because i think its malfunctioning.

    OH! its working perfectly you would see if you looked hard enough.

    Is this like the Emperors New Clothes?

     

    Its the opposite in fact the refiniering is there in all its glory its you who refuses to see it.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • Chivalry1978Chivalry1978 Vandergrift, PAPosts: 184Member

    Originally posted by tank017

    I think its far from a king..

     

    I think the next 'king' will be an MMO that brings a new approach.An MMO that is refreshing and new to us,an MMO that breathes life into the genre and actually moves it forward instead of helping it stagnate further.

    No offense but many a games have tried to bring something new to the mmo genre and were met with well death...

    Hellgate and tabula rasa both came out close to each other both were a combo shooter/rpg mmo. Both had interesting mechanics of how you fought, craft, upgrade...BOTH died, note one resurected as f2p. xsteel also gone.

    Tank aces a generic knock off of world of tanks, even thought it came out first....gone.

    Matrix online gone

    earth and beyond gone

    Other games were forced into f2p in order to even stay alive...Dc universe online, side note this not only saved but improved the game

    lineage 2

    star trek online goes f2p in january

    apb reloaded f2p

    lord of the rings f2p

    fallen earth f2p

    Aion is going f2p in certain parts of the world

    rift is even talking about f2p...

    warhammer online is rumored to be going f2o

     

    All of these games tried to be different in numerous ways and many of them bombed out right or just never took off or slowly are dying. Market research looks at these things and when you add it all up it boils down to simplicity. People want easy to follow quest easy to find locations, easy combat, and they want instant gratification for pvp ques...When a developer tries to make there game to unique they risk the game not reaching enough people and losing out on possible money.

  • Anoebis.beAnoebis.be AntwerpPosts: 62Member

    Is it a new King? Hell no, but it is enjoyable.

    At least I have something to do while I wait for Guid Wars 2! 

     

    image
  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by AdamTM

     

    I title this composition "The Return Of The King"

     

    You guys are hilarious no-one outside of MMO geekdom has ever heard of GW2, TSW and especially Archeage. The humungous wishful thinking you guys are doing is fantastic entertainment, putting up unknown quantities against the biggest IP on the planet is just delusion. I predict Archeage will takes years to get to the west, TSW will be interesting but probably unfinished and clunky and when Arenanet announced GW2 fully featured cash shop the crying will be heard from here to Alpha Centuri. But please keep it up I'm loving it I might write a few satire sketches with you lot as material, thanks.

    I love how much meaning people can draw from a humorous picture, I think this qualifies it as high art.

     

    I am a sage of the MMO world I can see through your thinly veiled attempts at humour even though you believe all you say as you twist and turn in your seat.

    Can I have a look at your crystal ball, because i think its malfunctioning.

    OH! its working perfectly you would see if you looked hard enough.

    Is this like the Emperors New Clothes?

     

    Its the opposite in fact the refiniering is there in all its glory its you who refuses to see it.

    Dear god.

    Yes I can see it now!

    No, wait, its just a bad pixel on my screen.

    image
  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Chivalry1978

    Originally posted by tank017

    I think its far from a king..

     

    I think the next 'king' will be an MMO that brings a new approach.An MMO that is refreshing and new to us,an MMO that breathes life into the genre and actually moves it forward instead of helping it stagnate further.

    No offense but many a games have tried to bring something new to the mmo genre and were met with well death...

    Hellgate and tabula rasa both came out close to each other both were a combo shooter/rpg mmo. Both had interesting mechanics of how you fought, craft, upgrade...BOTH died, note one resurected as f2p. xsteel also gone.

    Tank aces a generic knock off of world of tanks, even thought it came out first....gone.

    Matrix online gone

    earth and beyond gone

    Other games were forced into f2p in order to even stay alive...Dc universe online, side note this not only saved but improved the game

    lineage 2

    star trek online goes f2p in january

    apb reloaded f2p

    lord of the rings f2p

    fallen earth f2p

    Aion is going f2p in certain parts of the world

    rift is even talking about f2p...

    warhammer online is rumored to be going f2o

     

    All of these games tried to be different in numerous ways and many of them bombed out right or just never took off or slowly are dying. Market research looks at these things and when you add it all up it boils down to simplicity. People want easy to follow quest easy to find locations, easy combat, and they want instant gratification for pvp ques...When a developer tries to make there game to unique they risk the game not reaching enough people and losing out on possible money.

    I think thats a load of BS.

    All these games were not sufficiently different from WoW and ADDITIONALLY had their own very unique problems.

    Hellgate London wasn't even an MMO.

    Half the games on the list were borderline broken at launch and completely unplayable (AoC, FE, WAR, APB), others are completely shitty designed (STO, dear god, why let cryptic make a SPACE MMO in their SUPERHERO ENGINE)

    RIFT, LOTRO, AION are WoW+, like SWTOR, they are WoW with one or two small changes.

     

    Do you know a game that did things significantly different from WoW and is growing?

    EVE.

    QED.

    image
  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Originally posted by Divion

    I'm throwing in the towel -

    For several years i waited for Star Wars like a fat kid watching a cake baking.

    When i tried the beta i walked away angry, dissapointed, and out-right concerned for the industry.

    After my League of Legends account was PERMA-BANNED (WTF?) - and i lost 200 bucks i invested into that game, i was at an impass of boredom, so i decided to bite the bullet.

    I'm glad i did -

    No the game still didn't live up to -ALL- my expectations, but now that i've put in more time, started my own successful RP guild - i'm finding the features, and the enviroment much more enjoyable - and addictive.

    I understand there is some strong quams as to the game's end game -- I'll deal with that when i get there --

    But as it seem i was wrong, what about you? Twice.

    How did the game actually go as far as your expectations? If you were dissapointed did you give it a 2nd chance?

    The game -is- a themepark sure, and yes nothing exactily ground breaking is taking place, but i do feel like it will do a good job of filling in the role that World of Warcraft filled.

    The question is - for how long?

    We won't know the answer to that for years.

    WoW is still King of the MMOs in terms of staying as popular as it has for as long as it has.

    So far as I can tell, WoW is still millions of players ahead of TOR.

    So far as I can tell, myriad other developers aren't falling all over themselves trying to make a new MMO as much like TOR as they can.

    ... and so on... and so on...

    I'd say you're seriously jumping the gun here.

    Though I'm sure some of the fans will love you for it.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • OkhamsRazorOkhamsRazor londonPosts: 1,047Member

    Well thus far its the fastest selling mmo ever . Over a million units sold on pre-order and god knows how many since release but in an article over at massively.com analyst Colin Sebastion states he expects around 3 million units to be sold by March 2012 . I don't think this game can called King yet but it is a pretender to WoWs throne and the day overtakes Warcraft in terms of subscriptions then maybe we can crown it . Should the current momentum continue and everything suggest it may just do that then we may see WoW pushed into second position .

  • LowcaianLowcaian NsjoPosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Well thus far its the fastest selling mmo ever . Over a million units sold on pre-order and god knows how many since release but in an article over at massively.com analyst Colin Sebastion states he expects around 3 million units to be sold by March 2012 . I don't think this game can called King yet but it is a pretender to WoWs throne and the day overtakes Warcraft in terms of subscriptions then maybe we can crown it . Should the current momentum continue and everything suggest it may just do that then we may see WoW pushed into second position .

    Three million units sold by end of march doesn not have to equal three million active accounts. I very much doubt WoW will be dethroned by TOR. It might tak a sizable chunk of their playberbase but beat it? Nope.

    image
  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    i got to say i love swtor,replayability is limited but then so is wow!my main convern is the futur of swtor,will it take another long long time to get new content or will they release some in a fairly timely maner !cause lets face it adding content to swtor is not has easy has in other gamer!yes they can reuse dialogue to form new story line and if the guys or gal doing it is good enough(like some sound effect changing mic a lot of us use(sometime the dude sound like a dwarf sometime he sound like a chipmonk,this should be relativelly easy to do for them )but it is a lot of work and corporation tend to want to go the lasy way not the polished way in america.this is my only concern!cause the game itself !it is good enough to keep player entertained andf coming but retaining player is where ALL game fail!

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Originally posted by bdew

    Originally posted by Gamecritic


    Originally posted by bdew

    It has a strong start, and all the potential to become the new king.

    It's all in bioware's hands now, if they play their cards right, and don't mess up - this game will be the beginning of a new age.

    New age to what? books and movies that become MMOs what you expect next twilight saga MMO Harry potter MMO? What new age is this going to bring?

    Loaded questions much?

    Proper storytelling is something that should have been in MMORPGs since 97, it took just 15 years for someone actually manage to that.

     

    Well, "proper" being a subjective term in the first place... 

    The trend I've seen in recent years, on all fronts, has been that MMOs need to get away from trying to tell a story, and instead give players the environment to create their own. Less linear, less guided and on-rails gameplay, more free form exploration and non-linear gameplay.

    Bioware comes along (and this is something that soured me to them making a MMO very early on) and adapted this rather arrogant posture of "No no no. We are BIOWARE. And WE know what it is that players REALLY want! They want STORY delivered to them!! THAT'S what players REALLY want, and THAT'S what MMO's NEED!! And only WE, BIOWARE!!! can deliver on this!!!". Yes, I'm dramatizing that obviously.. but that's the overall impression that I got from them reading their interviews.

    They've basically just decided to toss their hat in the ring and immediately begin to arrogantly tell everyone - including those who would like to see MMOs move *away* from linear storylines and gameplay - that what they really want is *more* linear storylines and gameplay. That really blew my mind. Like... Great, they have a great heritage of games in the single-player market. Their hubris is, perhaps, warranted there. But I think they should maybe prove themself in the MMO market - in which they are still newbies - before they start making such declarations.

    Now before anyone says "But you do create your own story in TOR! You choose your own path and make your own ever-important moral decisions!" Right... and every single one of those decisions, and their outcomes - both immediate and long-term - are already pre-decided, the dialog is already written and recorded and the cut-scenes are waiting for you to get them. It's no different than any other linear storyline... You're not creating your own, you're playing through the creator's. 

    Every single person who makes the same choices at the same points will have the same outcome. Want to prove me wrong, then take 5 people.. start them on a given side with the same overall setup, then make sure everyone chooses the same story branches and makes the same decisions at each point of the way. And then tell me each one of them has experienced a unique story that only they can experience.

    TOR is more akin to a large, interactive and voice-acted "Choose Your Own Adventure" book than anything else.

    And before anyone says "but it still gives more options than other MMOs! Fail!"... It doesn't matter. I'm not talking about TOR based on how it compares to other games. Other games are other games warrant their own discussion. We're discussing TOR here, on its own merits. And at the end of the day, it's just as linear as any other similar MMO out there - you just get a few more choices to make along the way. 

    I fully expect to see walkthroughs posted online before long, mapping out every story path including every choice and every outcome. At that point, I fully expect people to not even be following the storyline or making their own choices, but merely following the guide like a cake recipe in order to get their desired outcome.

     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • OkhamsRazorOkhamsRazor londonPosts: 1,047Member

    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

    Well thus far its the fastest selling mmo ever . Over a million units sold on pre-order and god knows how many since release but in an article over at massively.com analyst Colin Sebastion states he expects around 3 million units to be sold by March 2012 . I don't think this game can called King yet but it is a pretender to WoWs throne and the day overtakes Warcraft in terms of subscriptions then maybe we can crown it . Should the current momentum continue and everything suggest it may just do that then we may see WoW pushed into second position .

    Three million units sold by end of march doesn not have to equal three million active accounts. I very much doubt WoW will be dethroned by TOR. It might tak a sizable chunk of their playberbase but beat it? Nope.

    I knew someone would bring that up . OK lets take a look at this arguement . We are talking of a conservative number of 3 million sales by March 2012 . It could and probably will be a lot higher . In other articles recently analysts expect the retention rate to be between 65 and 75 percent .  So in the first three months we can expect around 2 million regular subscribers if they are correct . Once a game is established as popular you tend to get word of mouth go around so its hightly unlikly ToR will stall at the 3 million units sold by March 2012 . There will obviously be some slowing down at some point but then you have to remember Bioware have yet to release it to the Russian ,Chinese and Eastern Markets where those figures could rise even higher . Those subscriptions will come from other games including WoW . Also Warcraft lost 1.7 million subs in 6 months this year without any game other than Rift to challenge it and not all went to Rift by any means . So age and boredom and not to mention a poorly recieved expansion pack in MOP are factoring into WoW decline before you throw ToR into the mix .

    Beat it into second place . Quite possibly but it may take a year or so . Although I doubt anything will top WoWs record peak of 12.5 million players for a very long time .

  • Artymus77Artymus77 Highland, ILPosts: 140Member

    i will be shocked if it is the king the first year after release, but as a SW fan and SWTOR player even i say in my opinion i will also agree with the others that it will take time before the game who's name that should not be named finally falls.

  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

    SWTOR is a good game but that is all. It is just an average MMO with a Star Wars skin. Now that is not a bad thing and is fun but not even close to having what it takes to be a king. Personally I am holding off on it until it goes F2P and it will. 

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member

    No. Why?

    You can flame me all you like but when WoW released in 2004/05 it offered more content than TOR (6 completely different starting zones, tons of different same level zones, seamless, huge continent, distinct classes off the bat), it featured better  graphical fidelity (AT THE TIME!) than TOR (it ran 150% hiccup-free on 90% of rigs), it had character variety that appealed to all kinds of players (from Tauren to Night Elfs), not just multicolored variations of human.

    Don't get me wrong, I like TOR, but in my book Guild Wars 2 has a lot more massiveness on the way to completely outshine WoW in every respect.

    M

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