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Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Staff Roundtable Review

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  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by eric_w66



    Originally posted by StSynner






    Originally posted by eric_w66





    The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".





    Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?





    Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

    You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

    THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

    Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

    you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.






     

    I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

    DCUO =/= Champions or CoX. You should go back and try them again, if you actually have played them all.

     

    edit: On Topic: This was a nice article. You guys should do these roundtables more often. I liked how it turned out; seeing differing opinions in addition to the official review.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • sgelsgel HeraklionPosts: 1,087Member Uncommon

    Danny for President... please...

    ..Cake..

  • OkhamsRazorOkhamsRazor londonPosts: 1,047Member

    I recall a lot of reviewers givings Age of Conan a score of 6 out of 10 I'd love to know what Danny gave that .

    I personally would give it an 8.5 theres things that could be improved but over all its a really enjoyable and fun experiance . I find I can play for hours and they just disapear . I've liked other mmos but this is the only one thats drawn me in in the way WoW vanilla did .

  • mithossmithoss Sankt AugustinPosts: 199Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

    Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

    Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.




     

    well, i tried to strafe out of being shot with laser weapons... you know what those pesky little light rays did? they flew a curve and hit me directly in my chest. You CAN bend light but you would need black hole's for that. An aimed combat system would've been perfect for swtor but unfortuneately the budget was quite small so it didnt make it.

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by eric_w66



    Originally posted by StSynner






    Originally posted by eric_w66





    The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".





    Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?





    Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

    You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

    THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

    Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

    you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.






     

    I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

    How is Vindictus combat like Skyrims? Skyrim is half the speed and involves lots of skill/item swapping. Fallen Earth's combat was broken and clunky at best. GW2 also isn't another "aimed" system cause it uses a targetting system, which I find pretty dumb when claiming to have a dodge mechanic. TERA's combat is more akin to Monster Hunter if anything which is not the "same thing". If you find the action based combat system already "Unoriginal and bland" depsite it still being a newer concept then you might as well move on from MMORPGs.

  • SoulticeSoultice Conway, ARPosts: 103Member

    SWTOR's combat is actually refreshing for change.  Yes it is a MMORPG and how many ways can it be done over.  Currently level 30 and indeed beta tested it.  I was like the guy with the 6.5 at one time. I would give it an 8 now.

    My biggest problem with the game is it feels like a stand alone Dragon Age (if you played it), not a bad thing but the game is not so massive even with the server queues.  I do not see alot of players in the same zone.  The feel is like Guild wars where everyone is in a main hub and groups up and heads out into the world.  The instances are all in one spot so alot of players hang out there.

    Some will balk but the questing system si a strong point for me.  I really enjoy them.  The bonus missions are sually kill so many of this or that but it is not turn in the quest and then go back and collect or kill something in the same spot you just left.  When the quest and the bonus is comploete you do not have to go back, unless it is a daily quest. 

    The companion system is fun and I love how I am not running all over the planet trying to gather materials.  Getting gear is not a big deal.  You can get orange items you can modify to actually be better then the gear dropped in your zone.  About time someone did the gear thing right.  I am still in my orange noob gear that is better then the dropped gear in the zone because I can modify it.  Salute to the dev that thought this one up. 

    Not going to comment on the space part of the game as they are re-doing it.  If it remained as it is I would call it a minigame nothing moe as it is solo only and no massive battles.  I hope they ge this part right as the space ship is a really cool addition if in the future it actaully has a part in the game besides storing your pets and gear.

    My real problem is it feels so empty.  Guildwars style.  I want a massive world where I can interact with the players more not instances everywhere I go.  My biggest turnoff so far. 



     

  • docwalkerdocwalker swanseaPosts: 12Member

    11 Days to max out a toon..... How refreshing will that be in a few months?....

    Nothing new about the combat at all. Sometimes I think these boards are full of paid posters... btw it does happen, "Don't Believe The Hype" this does seem to sum up the game quite well.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

    image
  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

    Danny W. I think your basis is spot on. Bioware promised the moon and delivered a pretty much more of the same game. In the end it is a good game, even fun but not the great game so many people are gushing on about. Bioware had no experience in the MMO market and so did the smart thing and followed the tried and true model others had set. However to me the kill of this is Bioware called out other MMOs and then made a regualr MMO with a Star Wars skin and voices.

    I will however disagree with your score of 6.0, this is a solid game is not anything revolutionary and is deserving of a solid 7.5 to 8.0 score. 

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    The only thing bioware ever promised u was adding story and vo with choices and companions to the normal mmo and thats exactly what they gave u

    How did they over state that ? If u didnt actually pay attention to what they were promising to bring to mmos thats your fault.

    I knew exactly what i was getting maybe that is why im loving tor and have not had any oh crap they lied to me moments

    Because i actually paid attention to what bioware was giving me. Hvae to say its nice to see so m any positive reviews, Of course i expected to see all the hate aimed at them also once i saw how good most of them were,

    Just suprised no one has used to mmorpg staff was paid to giv those good numbers lie yet. 

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    I agree with Danny. Since it's a mediocre to average MMO and deserves a 5 for average but since it has VO to at least make the quest grind a little more tolerable then it gets a +1 making it a 6. Dead on.

  • StSynnerStSynner Funkytown, TXPosts: 123Member

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

    if you think that TOR's combat system is anywhere CLOSE to the games i listed... then there is nothing I can say to you. lmao. your rabid fanboism has clouded your mind... seems BW has pulled the old Jedi mind trick on you, buddy.

    had TOR utilized the same aiming system as either DCU or Vindictus... omg...

  • docwalkerdocwalker swanseaPosts: 12Member

    The rumour on the US servers is that Blizzard and EA are in it purely for the initial gains and not the long term which shows in the gameplay longevity. Do the math you'll be amazed. 

    A Star Wars fan to the end... George....what have you done? I'll be searching for a new mmo come spring no doubt.

     

  • ShivamShivam MilanPosts: 465Member

    Originally posted by StSynner

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

    if you think that TOR's combat system is anywhere CLOSE to the games i listed... then there is nothing I can say to you. lmao. your rabid fanboism has clouded your mind... seems BW has pulled the old Jedi mind trick on you, buddy.

    had TOR utilized the same aiming system as either DCU or Vindictus... omg...

    I would hate it. No offense but not everyone enjoyed DCUO combat that much. 

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi

    image

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

    Long term success depends on the longevity of a game and not how great the game is at any point and time.

     

    Many people think MMOs are supposed to last for years and years,  but this isn't always the case, and shouldn't be the case.  A game can be great without having any extended longevity.

     

    Good examples of this - adventure titles, like Sam and Max.. always had very high scores, even though you would only play through the game once, with only one real outcome.. yet they were widely popular and entertaining.

     

    SWTOR is a good game -- a very good game - and the features that it is "missing" are nominal at best,  and what the game offers is more than substantial.  

     

    The game is between an 8 and 9 .. which is pretty consistent with the average critic ratings right now...   players don't really count anymore.. they get to vote with their wallets,  they are vindictive, and spiteful, and couldn't be remotely even handed, and lets face it, the game is much better than even you give it credit for.    There are people out there right now giving the same kind of unwarranted hatred to games like Skyrim too..

     

    One thing is for sure,  the game deserves the good ratings... and the roundtable proves exactly what has been shown.. out of a group of players.. 1 is bound to not like it....   

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • Honeymoon69Honeymoon69 USA, AKPosts: 647Member
    lol when they hit 50 with nothing to do they can always come back and reduce the score to 7/10 lol.
  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member

    Originally posted by Shivam

    Originally posted by StSynner


    Originally posted by eric_w66

    I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

    if you think that TOR's combat system is anywhere CLOSE to the games i listed... then there is nothing I can say to you. lmao. your rabid fanboism has clouded your mind... seems BW has pulled the old Jedi mind trick on you, buddy.

    had TOR utilized the same aiming system as either DCU or Vindictus... omg...

    I would hate it. No offense but not everyone enjoyed DCUO combat that much. 

    DCUO combat was unpolished mainly cause their targetting system barely worked properly as well but it could still be used as a base and improve on it to make it great.

  • docwalkerdocwalker swanseaPosts: 12Member

    Final score from a veteran using experience as my gauge.... I have played every big MMO there is from launch since 1999/2000 I am a Gamespy Founding Member. Thats how experienced I am.....




    4/10 It needs to improve a lot and increase its longevity of a matter of urgency.




     




    p.s the space portion of the game?...... I'd delete it and start again, without the emphasis on 3d space invaders...









     




     

  • JonnyBigBossJonnyBigBoss Murrieta, CAPosts: 699Member

    Danny walked in expecting the game to be the messiah. I think his comments are way off balance.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

    Exactly my thoughts as well, no game launches at a 9/10, heck in the history of all MMORPG's none have reached 9.0 by my grading scale, because like you pointed out, that implies near perfection, and there's no way this title is at that level. 

    One day it might get close I'm sure, but anything above an 8.x is being disingenous at best, or seen through starry eyed new and shiny goggles.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • MynscMynsc FalticeniPosts: 49Member

    Completely agree with Danny Wojcicki and it was refreshing to see one of the staff share this view. Disappointed thought that he was the only one... would have expected higher standards from the staff of one of the biggest MMO news sites.

    http://titanfocus.info - news, predictions and place for discussions about Blizzard's upcoming next-gen MMO.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Teala

    Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

    Long term success depends on the longevity of a game and not how great the game is at any point and time.

     

    Many people think MMOs are supposed to last for years and years,  but this isn't always the case, and shouldn't be the case.  A game can be great without having any extended longevity.

     

    Good examples of this - adventure titles, like Sam and Max.. always had very high scores, even though you would only play through the game once, with only one real outcome.. yet they were widely popular and entertaining.

     

    SWTOR is a good game -- a very good game - and the features that it is "missing" are nominal at best,  and what the game offers is more than substantial.  

     

    The game is between an 8 and 9 .. which is pretty consistent with the average critic ratings right now...   players don't really count anymore.. they get to vote with their wallets,  they are vindictive, and spiteful, and couldn't be remotely even handed, and lets face it, the game is much better than even you give it credit for.    There are people out there right now giving the same kind of unwarranted hatred to games like Skyrim too..

     

    One thing is for sure,  the game deserves the good ratings... and the roundtable proves exactly what has been shown.. out of a group of players.. 1 is bound to not like it....   

    I am all for giving a game a good score, if they are worthy of it.  BTW I really wish people would stop saying I hate this game, I don't.   I have never hated this game, I am just disappointed and frustrated with it...because I want to love this game and I want it to succeed big time.   If I come across as being critical of the game it's because I think in many areas Bioware missed a huge opportunity to make the game better than it is right now and some of the issues that were in beta should have never made it live.    That doesn't mean I hate it. 

    Back to the topic though, if people think this game deserves a 7 or an 8, hey I am ok with that.   At least that implies the game is not perfect and needs some work.    Giving it a 9 though is pretty much saying, game is perfect...when it is not.   It can attain a 9 - but I cannot honestly see how anyone - professional critic or not - can give it a 9.

    image
  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    huh I sort of expected mmorpg to be more critical. One can only hope Mike B has actually been playing the game. Talk about serious double standards in the genre if TOR gets a free pass on so many things missing from a mmo launch.

     

    These are the types of reviews that come back to haunt sites like this in a year.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mynsc

    Completely agree with Danny Wojcicki and it was refreshing to see one of the staff share this view. Disappointed thought that he was the only one... would have expected higher standards from the staff of one of the biggest MMO news sites.

    Well, no, by and large the staff at MMORPG are happy to play standard theme park MMORPG's and SWTOR is the next great step in that evolutionary chain, not surprising at all that they would favor the title, perhaps a bit more than they should have.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Agricola1

    Agree with you guys except for the grinch Danny Wojcicki, I think the rest of the MMORPG.com staff need to gang up and shove the coffee machine up his backside then order a double exspresso! I bet he rolled on a PvP server as republic and got raped as soon as he hit tatooine then uninstalled and sat with an upset face all Christmas in the dark listening to Leonard Cohen records!


     

    LOL Danny Wojcicki is the ONLY one that at least has an non-bias opinion. Everyone else is a Fanbot. Any "professional" reviewer that gave SWTOR anything beyond a 7 should just stop reviewing games because its obvious where your loyalty lies (in the pocket of whatever Dev Company has the newest shiney game out).

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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