If a game company can somehow persuade a few players to purchase lifetime subs, congrats to that company's marketing team.
For all rational players, however, there are simply too many variables to possibly have any clue as to whether you'd ultimately get your money's worth. You can't know you're going to continue to love the game for 19+ more months, no matter how much you loved beta or even the first several months of the game. You can't be positive the game won't eventually adopt some f2p or b2p model, especially considering just how much the industry has been shifting recently. And many people can't necessarily know that their real lives will continue to leave abundant room for online gaming.
Even if you buy a lifetime sub and end up playing the game for several years, that still doesn't mean the initial decision to make the purchase was reasonable. You still couldn't know any of the above, and you essentially gambled your money for no good reason. Devs wouldn't offer the lifetime sub option if it wasn't profitable; that is, if of all the players who buy into it, many more stop playing way before getting their monthly sub equivalent money's worth than those who eventually end up with a slightly better deal.
The only possible scenario I can concieve a reasonable person purchasing a lifetime sub is if money is absolutely not an issue for that person, and he'd prefer to not deal with the *hassle* toggling various games' subs on and off. But that's just lazy.
I have played LOTRO since Beta and one thing I would have done different is purchase the Lifetime Subscription at lauch. Will TOR have this option? I would do this option if it was available.
At $299.99 (lotro price at lauch) it would take 19 months before you playing for free (14.99/month).
Assuming someone subscribes for 10 years (and the game hasn't gone F2P or shut down by then), that would be what . . . about $1800?
I'm sure they wouldn't mind offering a lifetime sub for $1800. They'd LOSE money at a $300 lifetime sub past 19 months, to use your example.
Don't see why a company would want to lose money over the course of a game's life if they think it's gonna be popular.
Life time subs are a gamble for players and a cash injection for developers. The reason they dont cost $1800 (LOL btw) is because the player takes a gamble on the sub and the Developer gets a boost of up-front capital.
SWtoR wont offer a lifetime not because they are a *bad idea* but because the amount of pre-orders they have already made is netting them a massive cash injection. WIll it make back thier initial outlay? Nope, but they have the backing of EA to soak that and time to recoup over the next year or so.
Turbine offered lifetimes with LotRO to get back a chunk of thier outlay, and it worked out pretty well for them. Bioware just does not need to do that so no, they wont because they dont want you playing for free after 2 years or so. (Obviously Bioware feels thier game will last past this point, which is good news for us players! )
The only reason a developer would offer a lifetime sub is because they don't have enough faith in their game that they would expect people to play longer bring in more revenue.
Again, the average gamer only subs for 7 months so any developer offering a lifetime sub will come out ahead on average...assuming their offering lasts more than 7 months of course which SWTOR most definitely will.
Exactly. If a developer thinks that their game is good enough that their subs will play longer than the 19 months or so it takes for the player to recoup their investment then there's no reason to offer a lifetime sub.
Agreed. Pretty much killed your own argument for having lifetime subs.
Huh? I've never argued for having a lifetime sub. Especially for a good game. If the game is good enough to keep me subbed then maybe I would look back and say "damn wish they would have offered one." I don't think its good for a developer if they think it is a game that will keep players. If they don't think it will keep players then of course they would offer one because they will come out ahead.
I think perhaps you've misunderstood lifetub subs, they may be "loosing" a subs feee but in return get a rapid injestion of cash which can allow them to fund say the development of a new expansion or in many mmo's cases at release those lifetime subs will pay for new server's added after release many lifetime subs games you still have to pay for expansions, and by taking out lifetime subs instead of a bank loan game companies benefit by liftetime subs quite a bit, as to cost's, the average MMO player costs a company $1 dollars per person per month the subs you pay includes taxes and the rest is mostly profit, only meaning to begin to "loose" money on a lifetime subs, the lifetime subs player would have needed to have kept on playing at a constant average rate non-stop for over 16 and a half year's with the average $200 quoted (and it's usually higher more like 220 pounds ish+).... so yeah it's a good deal for both sides, and sadly misunderstood, and most f2p games specially former subs turned f2p games retain a subscritiption like account type which requires well a subscription, and getting it for free perm is basically lifetime subs converted to f2p I've had it happen to me before and no issues.
Now if your speaking potential income of say subs over 16 and half year's yes that would count as allot missing but practically but almost no player's will do that nor would most lifetime subs player's neccessarily perm have subs indeed they'll often on the average mmo player spend over their mmo lifetime about the same amount as the lifetime subs cost before going to the next game, which indeed is why they got a lifetime in the first place so they don't need to bother, so yeah good all around.
LotRO is one of the few MMOs I can think of that offered lifetime subs at launch and has been successful. Few games have offered lifetime subs... and when they do I'm REALLY leery of it. I remember people talking about buying a lifetime sub for Star Trek Online. As soon as I saw that the chance at a lifetime sub ended at launch, I almost cancelled my pre-order...
God, I wish I had done it. STO is probably the biggest MMO flop I've ever been involved with. FFXIV is the only one I think that rivals it.
I have played LOTRO since Beta and one thing I would have done different is purchase the Lifetime Subscription at lauch. Will TOR have this option? I would do this option if it was available.
At $299.99 (lotro price at lauch) it would take 19 months before you playing for free (14.99/month).
originally in the EU lotro's lifetime sub was £150..but i got mine for £75..off topic a bit but $300..wow..that is a lot..but i suppose its down to rate of exchange at the time.i very much doubt swtor will do lifetime..only if it starts to flop.which i doubt it will as long as they keep the content coming.
Well When lotro frist came out. I had a group of friends that played runescape. We played that game when runescape was runescape still classic mode. A few of them told me about Lotro. How great it was even in beta. So when the game came going by Friends who played runescape for 5 years. I also grab lotro and frist thing I did was pay for lifetime. I am still playing Lotro. Is lifetime worth it? For me HELL YA.
Now that bring the question. Dose Star Wars: The old Republic have a Lifetime Subscription? If the game going to be out for 10 years even if it f2p in a few years. I already payed my Due.
Yes it would be a Risk. But the reward can be fun gaming for years.
Think of it as EA protecting you from future disappointment.
Believe me, that is the LAST thing on EA's mind
The only people they're interested in "protecting from future dissappointment" is their shareholders.
Iirc, the "lifetime sub" offers are always made before, during or very soon after launch, while the hype is at a peak. Developers will only go that route if there's a direct benefit to them. Suddenly making "lifetime sub" offers six months or a year after launch just looks a bit dubious.
EA's marketing guru's are probably watching the numbers very closely. If it looks like they may not retain subs for as long as they thought (however long that may be), then it becomes attractive to make a cash grab via "lifetime sub" offers. But if it looks like things are going to be steady into the future, there's no reason whatever to give up on that potential future revenue.
Originally posted by Deleted User most people wouldnt want it, due to past mmo's going with lifetime subs have gone the f2p route or as some people say failed.
Yup, Cryptic did this, Champions Online release and lifetime sub = F2P a year later, same happened with Star Trek onlnie.
The most they offer now is a 6 month subscription. I doubt we'll see a lifetime sub option.
Depends, if the numbers fall off bad at the 30-60 day mark, then it might make sense to cash in on people that would pay a high initial price. Gets the dev's a nice cash infusion, and i would bet that they would make a lot more than they would lose if that is so.
Just have to wait and see. but i think we will see lifetime offers around the 60-90 day mark. In the end, it is all about what their bookworms tell them at that time, if they think they make more and use less server time averaged out, they will do it. Just good business.
A lifetime subscription is not automatically a bad thing. It depends on your playstyle and your budget. Some people spend what amounts to a lifetime subscription on a night out on the town.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
A lifetime subscription is not automatically a bad thing. It depends on your playstyle and your budget. Some people spend what amounts to a lifetime subscription on a night out on the town.
i think if they add a lifetime sub to this game its gonna be one step closer to f2p like lotro..they need money coming in on regular basis..look what happened to lotro..content nearly ground to a halt..it was only when it went f2p that the population boomed..dont get me wrong..i,m not saying swtor is a bad game..but if they do that..i think it will end up as f2p.which would be a shame for all the money they invested into the game..but then i dont think f2p is a bad thing..depends on your outlook.
I would have bought a lifetime sub if they offerred it up around Dec 15th, but now I have had a chance to play it I am not now, it has saved me loads of money. I don't think I will sub to this game enough to total half of a cost of a LT sub to what STO offers (or offered if not doing them now it is going F2P).
If SWTOR does not get any meaty content it will be F2P soon, whether it gets a LT sub or not
A lifetime subscription is not automatically a bad thing. It depends on your playstyle and your budget. Some people spend what amounts to a lifetime subscription on a night out on the town.
someone who spends $900 on a night out isnt likely to have time to play MMO's ..
BW might be thinking of B2P later on down the road which isn't a bad thing IMO, it'd encourage me to buy and give it a go again once that happens.
If you buy a lifetime and they go B2P before your lifetime ends or what ever it's as if you been robbed.
But oh well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I assumed people learned from HGL lifetime subs that this is a BAD idea. O who am i kidding people never learn.
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
This kind of logic eludes me. Imagine for one second a game comes out and only offers lifetime subs. After everone buys in, why would the company want to stay in business a year later, when all the money it made is now done, and the only way to keep the cash in their hands is to shutdown cost to operate. Businesses run on incentive, all you are doing is cutting your own throat by taking away that part out of the model.
Honestly people, think please. An old customer of mine, who was a senior vice president of Amway at the time, said to me jokingly: There is a sucker born every minute, and half of them are our customers. He's not a minorty view in the corporate world. FYI
What EA published MMO is now or was launched with a Lifetime sub?
It is not LIKELY to ever happen.
On a side note. Lifetime subs do not mean that after "x" number of years you are playing for free. Actually, you start out paying MORE per month then normal subs. Do the math: (Lifetime sub $) / months played) = monthly sub cost. Now, that means that at some point down the road you pay less then the monthly sub and at some point a lot less. But, it also means that you are essentially paying a monthly sub no matter what. This is not an argument for or against Lifetime subs....just clearing up some facts.
I have played LOTRO since Beta and one thing I would have done different is purchase the Lifetime Subscription at lauch. Will TOR have this option? I would do this option if it was available.
At $299.99 (lotro price at lauch) it would take 19 months before you playing for free (14.99/month).
Assuming someone subscribes for 10 years (and the game hasn't gone F2P or shut down by then), that would be what . . . about $1800?
I'm sure they wouldn't mind offering a lifetime sub for $1800. They'd LOSE money at a $300 lifetime sub past 19 months, to use your example.
Don't see why a company would want to lose money over the course of a game's life if they think it's gonna be popular.
I bought a lifetime sub to LOTRO but haven't broken even yet based on actual months I've actually played in. Most people don't blindly subscribe every month for years. I started wow at release and have subscribed less than 24 months in that time. Lifetime sub prices aren't based on the assumption that everyone that buys the game will subscribe until it goes under. Some people that buy lifetime subs will save a lot of money and others will quit the game early and have wasted money.
Lifetime subs are for games who's publishers that fear the game will die in a year or two. Companies that spent a lot on development but are releasing a sub par product or need to get a quick influx of cash for their investors. STO fits into the first and LOTRO the latter.
$300 cash now is worht more than $300 cash spread over several years as you can invest that money right away.
This kind of logic eludes me. Imagine for one second a game comes out and only offers lifetime subs. After everone buys in, why would the company want to stay in business a year later, when all the money it made is now done, and the only way to keep the cash in their hands is to shutdown cost to operate. Businesses run on incentive, all you are doing is cutting your own throat by taking away that part out of the model.
Honestly people, think please. An old customer of mine, who was a senior vice president of Amway at the time, said to me jokingly: There is a sucker born every minute, and half of them are our customers. He's not a minorty view in the corporate world. FYI
You do realize that most life subs cost atleast 2 years of subs + box sale right?
Since WoW MMO's can make a profit from box sales since MMO's can now sale millions of copies wiht in the first month, and 10K's like it was before WoW, WoW never was a box office hit it just continued to expand like a british skank past her 25 birth day.
ToR sold over 2M copies, with analyst expecting 3 to 4M box sales with the scope of this financial year for EA which ends in march. Meaning that with out subs the revenue from the box sales alone will be in average over 200M US.
BW's Austin operational costs which included the development of ToR over the past 5 years(since it was founded basicaly) were less than 100M US, ToR was funded by BW, LA, and later on EA so even if no one subs it means that BW/EA will pocket atleast 70M US after corporate tax deduction, even more if they are smart.
Thanks yes to no other than blizzard for inflating the MMO market in terms of player base and cultural exposure B2P is more than viable now for AAA titles, if you can sell 500K+ copies it is very possble today to develop, market and publish a top tier MMO with box sales alone if you support future development via payd content updates.
If i would to develop and MMO today together with the resource sharing model ala skype i would consider B2P as a viable option if i could market it strongly enough to break the half a million mark. After that it is more than possible granted you can hold up atleast 50% of your player base in active players by releasing payed content updates, say 5US nice to have content update every 3 months ala new instance / small pvp arena, progressive nice to have content update every 6-9 months ala new raid or other type of end game content, and a full pledged "must have" expansion pack every 12-18 months.
This to me seems viable, and if GW2 could prove the model can be a success because no one including arena net canot claim tha GW1 was one, yes it was a decent game with some very good elements but in terms of pure number and player base well bleh....
Comments
If a game company can somehow persuade a few players to purchase lifetime subs, congrats to that company's marketing team.
For all rational players, however, there are simply too many variables to possibly have any clue as to whether you'd ultimately get your money's worth. You can't know you're going to continue to love the game for 19+ more months, no matter how much you loved beta or even the first several months of the game. You can't be positive the game won't eventually adopt some f2p or b2p model, especially considering just how much the industry has been shifting recently. And many people can't necessarily know that their real lives will continue to leave abundant room for online gaming.
Even if you buy a lifetime sub and end up playing the game for several years, that still doesn't mean the initial decision to make the purchase was reasonable. You still couldn't know any of the above, and you essentially gambled your money for no good reason. Devs wouldn't offer the lifetime sub option if it wasn't profitable; that is, if of all the players who buy into it, many more stop playing way before getting their monthly sub equivalent money's worth than those who eventually end up with a slightly better deal.
The only possible scenario I can concieve a reasonable person purchasing a lifetime sub is if money is absolutely not an issue for that person, and he'd prefer to not deal with the *hassle* toggling various games' subs on and off. But that's just lazy.
Huh? I've never argued for having a lifetime sub. Especially for a good game. If the game is good enough to keep me subbed then maybe I would look back and say "damn wish they would have offered one." I don't think its good for a developer if they think it is a game that will keep players. If they don't think it will keep players then of course they would offer one because they will come out ahead.
Lifetime sub lol. Not going to happen.
I think perhaps you've misunderstood lifetub subs, they may be "loosing" a subs feee but in return get a rapid injestion of cash which can allow them to fund say the development of a new expansion or in many mmo's cases at release those lifetime subs will pay for new server's added after release many lifetime subs games you still have to pay for expansions, and by taking out lifetime subs instead of a bank loan game companies benefit by liftetime subs quite a bit, as to cost's, the average MMO player costs a company $1 dollars per person per month the subs you pay includes taxes and the rest is mostly profit, only meaning to begin to "loose" money on a lifetime subs, the lifetime subs player would have needed to have kept on playing at a constant average rate non-stop for over 16 and a half year's with the average $200 quoted (and it's usually higher more like 220 pounds ish+).... so yeah it's a good deal for both sides, and sadly misunderstood, and most f2p games specially former subs turned f2p games retain a subscritiption like account type which requires well a subscription, and getting it for free perm is basically lifetime subs converted to f2p I've had it happen to me before and no issues.
Now if your speaking potential income of say subs over 16 and half year's yes that would count as allot missing but practically but almost no player's will do that nor would most lifetime subs player's neccessarily perm have subs indeed they'll often on the average mmo player spend over their mmo lifetime about the same amount as the lifetime subs cost before going to the next game, which indeed is why they got a lifetime in the first place so they don't need to bother, so yeah good all around.
LotRO is one of the few MMOs I can think of that offered lifetime subs at launch and has been successful. Few games have offered lifetime subs... and when they do I'm REALLY leery of it. I remember people talking about buying a lifetime sub for Star Trek Online. As soon as I saw that the chance at a lifetime sub ended at launch, I almost cancelled my pre-order...
God, I wish I had done it. STO is probably the biggest MMO flop I've ever been involved with. FFXIV is the only one I think that rivals it.
originally in the EU lotro's lifetime sub was £150..but i got mine for £75..off topic a bit but $300..wow..that is a lot..but i suppose its down to rate of exchange at the time.i very much doubt swtor will do lifetime..only if it starts to flop.which i doubt it will as long as they keep the content coming.
Well When lotro frist came out. I had a group of friends that played runescape. We played that game when runescape was runescape still classic mode. A few of them told me about Lotro. How great it was even in beta. So when the game came going by Friends who played runescape for 5 years. I also grab lotro and frist thing I did was pay for lifetime. I am still playing Lotro. Is lifetime worth it? For me HELL YA.
Now that bring the question. Dose Star Wars: The old Republic have a Lifetime Subscription? If the game going to be out for 10 years even if it f2p in a few years. I already payed my Due.
Yes it would be a Risk. But the reward can be fun gaming for years.
Believe me, that is the LAST thing on EA's mind
The only people they're interested in "protecting from future dissappointment" is their shareholders.
Iirc, the "lifetime sub" offers are always made before, during or very soon after launch, while the hype is at a peak. Developers will only go that route if there's a direct benefit to them. Suddenly making "lifetime sub" offers six months or a year after launch just looks a bit dubious.
EA's marketing guru's are probably watching the numbers very closely. If it looks like they may not retain subs for as long as they thought (however long that may be), then it becomes attractive to make a cash grab via "lifetime sub" offers. But if it looks like things are going to be steady into the future, there's no reason whatever to give up on that potential future revenue.
The most they offer now is a 6 month subscription. I doubt we'll see a lifetime sub option.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Depends, if the numbers fall off bad at the 30-60 day mark, then it might make sense to cash in on people that would pay a high initial price. Gets the dev's a nice cash infusion, and i would bet that they would make a lot more than they would lose if that is so.
Just have to wait and see. but i think we will see lifetime offers around the 60-90 day mark. In the end, it is all about what their bookworms tell them at that time, if they think they make more and use less server time averaged out, they will do it. Just good business.
Please deposit $1798.88 for lifetime sub please
[Mod Edit] sub aint gonna happen you mean.
Quoting this for a hearty laugh one year down the line.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
A lifetime subscription is not automatically a bad thing. It depends on your playstyle and your budget. Some people spend what amounts to a lifetime subscription on a night out on the town.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
i think if they add a lifetime sub to this game its gonna be one step closer to f2p like lotro..they need money coming in on regular basis..look what happened to lotro..content nearly ground to a halt..it was only when it went f2p that the population boomed..dont get me wrong..i,m not saying swtor is a bad game..but if they do that..i think it will end up as f2p.which would be a shame for all the money they invested into the game..but then i dont think f2p is a bad thing..depends on your outlook.
I would have bought a lifetime sub if they offerred it up around Dec 15th, but now I have had a chance to play it I am not now, it has saved me loads of money. I don't think I will sub to this game enough to total half of a cost of a LT sub to what STO offers (or offered if not doing them now it is going F2P).
If SWTOR does not get any meaty content it will be F2P soon, whether it gets a LT sub or not
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
someone who spends $900 on a night out isnt likely to have time to play MMO's ..
BW might be thinking of B2P later on down the road which isn't a bad thing IMO, it'd encourage me to buy and give it a go again once that happens.
If you buy a lifetime and they go B2P before your lifetime ends or what ever it's as if you been robbed.
But oh well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I assumed people learned from HGL lifetime subs that this is a BAD idea. O who am i kidding people never learn.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
This kind of logic eludes me. Imagine for one second a game comes out and only offers lifetime subs. After everone buys in, why would the company want to stay in business a year later, when all the money it made is now done, and the only way to keep the cash in their hands is to shutdown cost to operate. Businesses run on incentive, all you are doing is cutting your own throat by taking away that part out of the model.
Honestly people, think please. An old customer of mine, who was a senior vice president of Amway at the time, said to me jokingly: There is a sucker born every minute, and half of them are our customers. He's not a minorty view in the corporate world. FYI
Never say never but.....
What EA published MMO is now or was launched with a Lifetime sub?
It is not LIKELY to ever happen.
On a side note. Lifetime subs do not mean that after "x" number of years you are playing for free. Actually, you start out paying MORE per month then normal subs. Do the math: (Lifetime sub $) / months played) = monthly sub cost. Now, that means that at some point down the road you pay less then the monthly sub and at some point a lot less. But, it also means that you are essentially paying a monthly sub no matter what. This is not an argument for or against Lifetime subs....just clearing up some facts.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I bought a lifetime sub to LOTRO but haven't broken even yet based on actual months I've actually played in. Most people don't blindly subscribe every month for years. I started wow at release and have subscribed less than 24 months in that time. Lifetime sub prices aren't based on the assumption that everyone that buys the game will subscribe until it goes under. Some people that buy lifetime subs will save a lot of money and others will quit the game early and have wasted money.
Lifetime subs are for games who's publishers that fear the game will die in a year or two. Companies that spent a lot on development but are releasing a sub par product or need to get a quick influx of cash for their investors. STO fits into the first and LOTRO the latter.
$300 cash now is worht more than $300 cash spread over several years as you can invest that money right away.
You do realize that most life subs cost atleast 2 years of subs + box sale right?
Since WoW MMO's can make a profit from box sales since MMO's can now sale millions of copies wiht in the first month, and 10K's like it was before WoW, WoW never was a box office hit it just continued to expand like a british skank past her 25 birth day.
ToR sold over 2M copies, with analyst expecting 3 to 4M box sales with the scope of this financial year for EA which ends in march. Meaning that with out subs the revenue from the box sales alone will be in average over 200M US.
BW's Austin operational costs which included the development of ToR over the past 5 years(since it was founded basicaly) were less than 100M US, ToR was funded by BW, LA, and later on EA so even if no one subs it means that BW/EA will pocket atleast 70M US after corporate tax deduction, even more if they are smart.
Thanks yes to no other than blizzard for inflating the MMO market in terms of player base and cultural exposure B2P is more than viable now for AAA titles, if you can sell 500K+ copies it is very possble today to develop, market and publish a top tier MMO with box sales alone if you support future development via payd content updates.
If i would to develop and MMO today together with the resource sharing model ala skype i would consider B2P as a viable option if i could market it strongly enough to break the half a million mark. After that it is more than possible granted you can hold up atleast 50% of your player base in active players by releasing payed content updates, say 5US nice to have content update every 3 months ala new instance / small pvp arena, progressive nice to have content update every 6-9 months ala new raid or other type of end game content, and a full pledged "must have" expansion pack every 12-18 months.
This to me seems viable, and if GW2 could prove the model can be a success because no one including arena net canot claim tha GW1 was one, yes it was a decent game with some very good elements but in terms of pure number and player base well bleh....
How the hell are people still parroting fake sales numbers about this game?