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Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

Themepark versus Sandbox...

 

Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road.  While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression. 

 

Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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Comments

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    GW2 is full on Themepark unless they add some openworld player housing / building or some other forms of user created content which is unlikely.

  • AzariaAzaria Murfreesboro, TNPosts: 318Member

    Guild Wars 2 is not a Sandbox its a skill based pvp Themepark with no real emphasis on End game raiding or looting.

    Its along the lines of the original guild wars or skill based mmorpgs, spellborn, the new final fantasy tried this formula. They were bad releases but plenty of Asian grinders work this way, or sort of work this way. Mu online is basically a 2d themepark with weapon skills and attack skills, town events and such, so its not so different in philosophy. I think this particular paradigm isn't new its just resurging becuase of the sickness some players are having towards all these Holy Trinity themeparks that cater to obnoxious raider guilds. I think.

  • Chivalry1978Chivalry1978 Vandergrift, PAPosts: 184Member

    Sadly no it cant....Simply put the money gw makes is mostly based on expansions to the game each expansion has a theme and a story, these are generally the same aspects of any "theme park " game....And while it offers a wealth of independant things from story line that you can do, it still has a "theme park" basis.....

     

    on a side note....I really hate the term "theme park" Them park generally revolves around reacurring characters in story lines. The fact that game that are labeled this have a story universe the game takes place in and sights and sounds involving this aside, What makes a game a "theme Park". What ever happened to the term fan boy...Like Mario fan boy or wow fan boy. Rather then attacking the moronic player making some insane comment, we have now turned on a game system....Dont get me wrong I go to game forums and talk trash to devs s aying things like your game is more laggy then Micheal J. Fox writing a letter, Or This game has more bugs then a New York Appartment. And while this may seem as flaming or trolling, personally I just place the blame where it lies....

     

    So please for god sake call it what it is.

  • AzariaAzaria Murfreesboro, TNPosts: 318Member

    What you need to focus on are the philsophical differences between Guild Wars 2 and Traditional themeparks you are used to. Guild Wars 2 wont have and end game raiding system and you wont have to raid and you wont have to group up. They are doing what I call a environment first approach meaning you trigger events instead of taking quests so your moving through it rather than clicking through it. Which also means adding new content for the game will likely be a fun thing. Also the npcs are rather animated and will react to you in a similar fashion to single player games like Fable so it will have elements of a few good single player mmorpgs. Its primary focus on top of its initial contruction is PVP not PVE which is another big draw to the game. Competitive battles and World vs World battles. Its crafting system is not so bad to be honest, everything you can grab you can potentially use. But it wont be a Crafter driven economy as the world is designed to work as its own living breathing thing. Another big difference between GW2 and typical Gear driven themeparks is the interactive world which has not been focussed on at all by traditional Themeparks. It really looks like a Fable style mmorpg in my mind. But I can dream right?

  • MorcelllMorcelll El Campo, TXPosts: 407Member

    Originally posted by Xzen

    GW2 is full on Themepark unless they add some openworld player housing / building or some other forms of user created content which is unlikely.

    I think they actually talked about adding housing in the future, but it was something they couldn't do as best as they wanted at launch.  So they will wait on that. 

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    Well the dynamic event system is sandboxesque to the extent that some people say Skyrim is a sandbox.  That is, you can go off in any direction and just participate in what is going on in the world.  It's a relatively nonlinear system, where you can do whatever you want as long as you stay within the confines of the boundaries established by the game (the metaphorical sandbox.) The problem is everyone seems to have a slightly different definition as to what comprises a sandbox (note the person above who feels players' ability to build *stuff* in the world is a paramount feature of a sandbox.)  

    Aside from dynamic events, however, not much else about GW2 has anything to do with any definition of sandbox.  

  • sk8chalifsk8chalif Montreal, QCPosts: 599Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by Xzen

    GW2 is full on Themepark unless they add some openworld player housing / building or some other forms of user created content which is unlikely.

    I think they actually talked about adding housing in the future, but it was something they couldn't do as best as they wanted at launch.  So they will wait on that. 

     yes they did, but its will be instanced in ur District area, its wont be openworld player housing, Themepark all the way

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  • AzariaAzaria Murfreesboro, TNPosts: 318Member

    Originally posted by sk8chalif

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat


    Originally posted by Xzen

    GW2 is full on Themepark unless they add some openworld player housing / building or some other forms of user created content which is unlikely.

    I think they actually talked about adding housing in the future, but it was something they couldn't do as best as they wanted at launch.  So they will wait on that. 

     yes they did, but its will be instanced in ur District area, its wont be openworld player housing, Themepark all the way

    Yes and old technology brought back from the grave, in text based muds they had instanced personal housing, they just tagged you and if someone wanted to come over to visit " your house" you told them what your tag name was, of course now it will probably be a little portable instace zone you can only trigger in some particular neigborhood.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Themepark versus Sandbox...

     

    Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road.  While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression. 

     

    Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?

     

    It's already clear by what Anet has told us that the game will not have, initially at least, no sandbox features, it's a pure themepark game. That's fine by me, I like themeparks, though I wouldnt mind some sandbox features in the game, but I cant see Anet implementing such because the world does not really support such features currently (carefully designed areas, events, and monster placement), if people demand, they could always later add in "no mans land" type of areas where would be much more freedom and special features for sandbox play.

     

    I dont see how dynamic events are related to sandboxy features, they are just public quests/series of "open quests" that go back and forth on rails. It's an amazing feature if properly done, one of my main reasons GW2 looks good to me, but I dont see anything sandboxy about it, quite the opposite because it's heavily scripted series of events, shouldnt sandboxy elements have loads of freedom in them?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,775Member Uncommon

    Structuring the quests differently doesn't turn a theme park into a sandbox.  Guild Wars 2 is very much a theme park game.  Dynamic events are carefully scripted quests, not things that can randomly happen wherever.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,912Member Uncommon

    I'm coming to think of it as a different style of themepark.  It will be fun to experience it first hand.


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  • ButregenyoButregenyo IstanbulPosts: 483Member

    It is half theme-park and half-competitive, but the theme-park features are not dependant on tier based loot cycle, it is more skill and teamplay based.

    also there is no curved grinding to keep up with the next branch of main quest.

    My thoughts: WvWvW will have sandbox features as when 3 worlds fight over a trading route for economical advantage.

    Also i have no real info about this (tell me please if someone knows) but player centered offer-demand/stock based economy would count as a sandbox feature imo.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    It's about 1/5th of the way to what a sandbox should be, but it's still a themepark.  A sandbox should have an active world, and DE's, even though they are scripted, are a step towards that active world. The players actions have an effect on the layout of the land, if the people don't defend the bridge, the bridge burns and isn't there until it gets rebuilt. 

    WvWvW is in all essence, just an instance and really can't be put on much different of a category then a battleground. I don't think it lends towards sandbox at all.

    Player housing will end up being in an instanced area of a city (as far as I've heard) - not really sandbox at all

     

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  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Structuring the quests differently doesn't turn a theme park into a sandbox.  Guild Wars 2 is very much a theme park game.  Dynamic events are carefully scripted quests, not things that can randomly happen wherever.

    There's not really any random content in any mmo. Most sandbox mmo's I've played, you just had mobs wandering around, but it was still programmed on a set path that might change a bit, but i wouldn't call it a random happening.

  • LeononaLeonona aarhusPosts: 225Member Uncommon

    I just see GW2 as an evolved themepark. A Themepark+. There are features which gives you more freedom than traditional mmo themeparks, but you can't label those features sandbox imo.

  • AzariaAzaria Murfreesboro, TNPosts: 318Member

    The difference with GW2 and WOW style themeparks is that when people think about a themepark they think of the WOW style of gameplay. Actually the tactical skill based mmo was supplanted by the EQ style themeparks and is making a comeback now. Also WOW or TOR are more Chathouse Themeparks built like a Diku mud around a central safe point hub with a res spot. They are quest point driven a main point of Themeparks is the questing system, which Guild Wars 2 doesn't have. However it also has interactive environments which are scripted, but this is NOT a coffeeshop mmorpg so that shouldn't suprise anyone. Structurally it runs more like some of the old object driven LP muds I used to play way back when before they were over simplified for the pure pvp mudders in ROMs and DIKUs. In short it has themepark like features and its not a sandbox to be sure. But it's also not a Themepark in the traditional sense of the word.  Simply because GW2 is free roaming, you dont have a truly set direction after you start.

  • OtakunOtakun New Providence, PAPosts: 864Member

    Sandbox is dead, quit acting like a new game is going to be one cause it isn't.

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    I was alwas a fan of sandbox design but GW2 does whet my appetite.

    While I wouldn't say that it's walking the middle of the road, it does take a step or two towards "sandboxyness" with its DEs (emergent behavior, persistence, things happening while you're no there) and WvW to a degree. GW2 is a themepark game but it's adressing so many things wrong with themeparks that it made even me interested.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon

    I am just curious about the sandbox housing thing. I love housing and I would like to see it in every MMO.

    The best housing system I've ever seen in an MMO was EQ2's housing. It is instanced based housing yet it is damn good. Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?

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  • LokomotivLokomotiv Marinha-GrandePosts: 106Member

    It is still possible to give a bit of a sandbox feel to this game. Home instances could be a small sandbox area visitable by other players. There you could create your home, plant some trees hire some crafters to do your crafting jobs for you and collect mats for you... etc... Home instances have this potential.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    I am just curious about the sandbox housing thing. I love housing and I would like to see it in every MMO.

    The best housing system I've ever seen in an MMO was EQ2's housing. It is instanced based housing yet it is damn good. Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?

    Ultima Online. Houses existed out in the open world and not in an instance. I think any game that has housing out in the open world has a better housing system.

  • ArawulfArawulf Guest Writer Freeland, MIPosts: 520Member Uncommon

    While I have all the faith in the world in ArenaNet, I have no expectations of this title being sandboxy.  By nature, the dynamic zone events are from a preset event chain.  The 'personal story' is already written, you simply play to select which pre-determined aspects appear within it.  This is not a dig at GW2 since theme-parks are wildly successful.  If a player is looking for a sandbox expereince, they will want to look elsewhere imho.

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  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xzen


    Originally posted by fivoroth

    I am just curious about the sandbox housing thing. I love housing and I would like to see it in every MMO.
    The best housing system I've ever seen in an MMO was EQ2's housing. It is instanced based housing yet it is damn good. Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?

    Ultima Online. Houses existed out in the open world and not in an instance. I think any game that has housing out in the open world has a better housing system.

     

    whole areas where destroyed by UOs housing, housing will only work in the open world if they are part of the gameworld, and only thne when they are build on specially created ground like around your guilds castle in a dedicated PvP area, where both the house and the castle can be destroyed by your ennemies

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  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    I am just curious about the sandbox housing thing. I love housing and I would like to see it in every MMO.

    The best housing system I've ever seen in an MMO was EQ2's housing. It is instanced based housing yet it is damn good. Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?

    Ultima Online. Houses existed out in the open world and not in an instance. I think any game that has housing out in the open world has a better housing system.

     

    whole areas where destroyed by UOs housing, housing will only work in the open world if they are part of the gameworld, and only thne when they are build on specially created ground like around your guilds castle in a dedicated PvP area, where both the house and the castle can be destroyed by your ennemies

    I don't know. It really never bothered me that houses could pretty much be found everywhere in UO. I also don't think they have to be destructable. But even in your example I'd still say I like it more than an instanced housing system. Also if housing is instanced then it does not do anything to make the game a sandbox.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Themepark versus Sandbox...

     

    Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road.  While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression. 

     

    Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?

    FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO.  I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.

     

    If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.

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