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Legal foundation SWTOR forcing subscription on people

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  • dbumandbuman texarkana, TXPosts: 19Member

    If this was against the law, then WoW, FFXI, EQ, EQII, LOTRO, DOAC, AoC, Lineage II, Lineage I, etc would all have had lawsuits legitimately filed and won against said game companies. But... there never was and they were successful.

     

    Now for those MMO Newbies who are fond of the P2W games, I can understand where this makes no sense. But there was a time when there WERE NO Hybrid vehicles, and phones were NOT wireless, and the closest thing to internet was Dial-up.

     

    It was and still is a common practice for SOME mainstream games, in example WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, and it is evident that they dont have any plans on change, hell, RIFT is still p2p. to claim that SWTOR made a horrible move is an overstatement, perhaps a slightly bad judgment, but nothing that would cause a lawsuit.

  • GaborikGaborik Roseville, MNPosts: 251Member

    Originally posted by CityHam

    After all the hoopes these bastards make you jump, the final insult is this, after pre buying and then buying the physical copy, they shit on us by forcing us to give them our credit card information, cus thats the only thing on there mind, to suck as much money from our poor sobs as possible.

     

    Any one familiar with business law please tell me if there is a solid foundation for this ?

     

    its like buying food at a restaurant : forking out cash even before you get in there, then paying full price before you get to enjoy the low quality of this steaming turd of a game.

     

    while the dish is ready in the kitchen, suddenly you need to give them your credit card so they can charge you at a later date, -should you make the mistake of walking to there direction.

     

    I for one had little repsect for this game in beta, buying this turd just to play with friends, for the love of god bring out GW2 or any next gen MMO.

     

    Shit : UI, GFX, PvP, PvE, WORLD, lol random IP/server herp.'

     

    This game is near ready for Beta and its officially, people have been mentioning bugs like the UI for months and nothing happens, -this tub of shit will loose 50% of the players in 6 months.

    How has this ignorant post not been banned or blocked.  He's trying to play and MMO that apparently he thought was a turd in BETA yet still went through with paying for it?  Most MMO's require you pay a monthly sub, you dont like go play XBOX live oh wait you will need a credit card for that also.  You would think after this game had a successfull launch (yes a few small issues) that these haters would get on with their life and play a game they enjoy.  Because all the whining and crying just makes these haters look like fools.

  • fnorgbyfnorgby berkeley, CAPosts: 158Member

    Originally posted by CityHam




    If you stay at a Hotel, you pay when you leave, if the Hotel messed up, you get discount, if they fucked up royal, you pay nothing, if they fucked up the booking and have no room for you, Hotel is forced to find an equal or better place and pay the traveling cost to get there.


     

    A hotel has no legal obligation to arrange for alternative service.  They *might* have to reimburse you if you stay at a similar hotel for more money.  And that's only if you sue them.  Lots of hotels will do what you described, but for PR purposes not because of the law.

    Contract law in the US is a peculiar thing.  There are no penalties.  There is no "fault".  There is no right or wrong party. 

    Let that sink in -- most people have a hard time accepting this.  In contract law, there is no blame, no morality.  Bad faith dealing is assumed -- no matter how much you are counting on the deal, if I can get a better deal from someone else I can rip up a signed contract and tell you to pound sand.  The *worst* that will happen to me is that I reimburse you for the difference in cost if you arranged a substitute service (like a similar hotel room but for $150/night instead of the $120 a night we agreed on.  I pay you $30.  That's it).  Breach of contract cases don't pull in the big bucks unless one party or the other invested a lot of money or turned down other lucrative offers in reliance on the deal.  And even then, there are no punitive damages.

    Here, there is no alternative service.  So regardless if BW acted in bad faith, you get (at most) the box price refunded to you and a foot in the ass as you walk out the door.  Your deal with them is that as long as you are playing the game, you have to pay.

    And in the business-internet world, no one offers 100% uptime.  It's completely unreasonable to *expect* 100% uptime, and a court is going to recognize this.  If you had an explicit contract for 100% uptime, you'd be paying $100 or more per month easy.  You're not paying $100/month, so you're not going to get 100% uptime.  Period.

    I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Gdemami

     




    Originally posted by Coman



    If you have no creditcard they do.




     

    It was your choice not to use a standard payment method - CC. You have to bear the consequences of your choice. You are not forced into anything.



    Yes, I have admitted several times and even stress myself that the process of subscribing and immediate canceling isn't intuitive. The information could probably be provided more clearly and easier to find.

     

     

    What ARE you talking about ?

     

    Are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for MMO's ?  0.o



    • Their sole reason for even existing is to pay for MMO subscriptions. 

     

    Or are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for SWTOR ?



    • GTC are listed on the SWTOR box as a valid payment method, right next to CC's.

     

    Which semantic hoops are we going to jump through next ?

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

    It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

    It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

    Really? Can you give us a write up of your survey methodology. I'd be interested to know who "everybody" is, what the question was specifically and your sample size. It certainly didn't include me, since I'm indifferent.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for MMO's ?

    Correct.

    GTC are valid and optional. CC is the standard.


    Across whole online service market you can find various different payment methods, there are countless of them, but one is long-standing and it is supported by pretty much any business - it is CC payments. It is the most used and accessible payment method thus it indeed makes the standard.


    I do not think we have to go through all this again...

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Azzkicka

    What bothers me is I have 30 days of game time on my account....

    Why am i forced to sign up for a sub today when i dont need it?  Maybe i'll be bored with the game in 30 days and wont want to play it anymore and then i'll just have to cancel this sub.

    But the main thing that gets me is the fucking wait time.... Ive been sitting on the site now for near 45 mins in the "waiting room" so i can put my sub informatin in on an account that has 30 days of game time available in it so i can use my vacation i took to play the game....

    Instead im wasting it writing this forum post and sitting in the waiting room on the swtor website.

    There is no reason I should be forced to have an active subscription today if i still have gametime on my account.

    Oh heaven forbid you might have to spend 2 minutes logging into account management and pressing "cancel subscription". Oh the horror.

    As for your horror about the wait time, that would be why EA/Bioware encouraged everyone to get this set up BEFORE launch, wouldn't it? image

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Metentso


    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

    It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

    Really? Can you give us a write up of your survey methodology. I'd be interested to know who "everybody" is, what the question was specifically and your sample size. It certainly didn't include me, since I'm indifferent.

    lol

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Metentso


    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

    It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

    Really? Can you give us a write up of your survey methodology. I'd be interested to know who "everybody" is, what the question was specifically and your sample size. It certainly didn't include me, since I'm indifferent.

    lol

    I'm glad we've established that you made that one up. Were you going to get around to explaining how this situation is against my interests at some point?image

  • dead2soondead2soon phoenix, AZPosts: 149Member

    Buy a $5, $10 prepaid credit card or get a one time use card number from your normal credit card. Enter that to get your free time so you can't be rebilled but pass the auth check and save for any future mmo's you want to try.

  • jpnolejpnole Tampa, FLPosts: 1,656Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by CityHam

    After all the hoopes these bastards make you jump, the final insult is this, after pre buying and then buying the physical copy, they shit on us by forcing us to give them our credit card information, cus thats the only thing on there mind, to suck as much money from our poor sobs as possible.

     

    Any one familiar with business law please tell me if there is a solid foundation for this ?

     

    its like buying food at a restaurant : forking out cash even before you get in there, then paying full price before you get to enjoy the low quality of this steaming turd of a game.

     

    while the dish is ready in the kitchen, suddenly you need to give them your credit card so they can charge you at a later date, -should you make the mistake of walking to there direction.

     

    I for one had little repsect for this game in beta, buying this turd just to play with friends, for the love of god bring out GW2 or any next gen MMO.

     

    Shit : UI, GFX, PvP, PvE, WORLD, lol random IP/server herp.'

     

    This game is near ready for Beta and its officially, people have been mentioning bugs like the UI for months and nothing happens, -this tub of shit will loose 50% of the players in 6 months.

    Sorry dude, lawyer won't help you now. Pay up or log out!

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by dead2soon
    Buy a $5, $10 prepaid credit card or get a one time use card number from your normal credit card. Enter that to get your free time so you can't be rebilled but pass the auth check and save for any future mmo's you want to try.

    It is always good to be active and make steps to secure your own data and assets but the problem is that once you give the information away, you lose the control.

    I did not come across any charged card but I assume you will still need to provide personal data same way as you do with CC which does solve only part of the issue.

    Potential identity theft and personal data misuse will remain to be a threat.

  • CityHamCityHam Juneau, AKPosts: 63Member

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Azzkicka

    What bothers me is I have 30 days of game time on my account....

    Why am i forced to sign up for a sub today when i dont need it?  Maybe i'll be bored with the game in 30 days and wont want to play it anymore and then i'll just have to cancel this sub.

    But the main thing that gets me is the fucking wait time.... Ive been sitting on the site now for near 45 mins in the "waiting room" so i can put my sub informatin in on an account that has 30 days of game time available in it so i can use my vacation i took to play the game....

    Instead im wasting it writing this forum post and sitting in the waiting room on the swtor website.

    There is no reason I should be forced to have an active subscription today if i still have gametime on my account.

    Oh heaven forbid you might have to spend 2 minutes logging into account management and pressing "cancel subscription". Oh the horror.

    As for your horror about the wait time, that would be why EA/Bioware encouraged everyone to get this set up BEFORE launch, wouldn't it? image

    cant as SWTOR.COM is down lol

  • onthestickonthestick MarrakechPosts: 600Member

    Originally posted by CityHam

    cant as SWTOR.COM is down lol

    You have rest of the month no rush ;)

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • CityHamCityHam Juneau, AKPosts: 63Member

    Originally posted by CityHam

    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Azzkicka

    What bothers me is I have 30 days of game time on my account....

    Why am i forced to sign up for a sub today when i dont need it?  Maybe i'll be bored with the game in 30 days and wont want to play it anymore and then i'll just have to cancel this sub.

    But the main thing that gets me is the fucking wait time.... Ive been sitting on the site now for near 45 mins in the "waiting room" so i can put my sub informatin in on an account that has 30 days of game time available in it so i can use my vacation i took to play the game....

    Instead im wasting it writing this forum post and sitting in the waiting room on the swtor website.

    There is no reason I should be forced to have an active subscription today if i still have gametime on my account.

    Oh heaven forbid you might have to spend 2 minutes logging into account management and pressing "cancel subscription". Oh the horror.

    As for your horror about the wait time, that would be why EA/Bioware encouraged everyone to get this set up BEFORE launch, wouldn't it? image

    cant as SWTOR.COM is down lol

     


    When trying to login @ swtor.com


     


    Bad Request

    Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.

  • veratutazzveratutazz Dallas, TXPosts: 133Member

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

    Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

    It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

    Really? Can you give us a write up of your survey methodology. I'd be interested to know who "everybody" is, what the question was specifically and your sample size. It certainly didn't include me, since I'm indifferent.

    lol

    I'm glad we've established that you made that one up. Were you going to get around to explaining how this situation is against my interests at some point?image

    Ditto troll ditto's this remark

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    How hard is it to enter your payment method then cancel the reoccuring sub once you realize you dont want to stay?

    I mean its pointless to block use of free time untill this is setup but still...this isnt a big deal.  Use your heads people.

  • MrblurayMrbluray Toronto, ONPosts: 248Member

    When you order  pizza delivery, you give your credit card info before you get your pizza.

    When you order a burger at McDonalds, you give the cashier your credit card before you get your burger.

    /end of thread.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon

    Sometimes I have to wonder about the intelligence of people.  Not everyone has a credit card.  Did any of you stop to think that after spending the $60 for the game the OP might not have immediately had the extra $15, because even if you use one of the disposable credit cards, it has to have $15 on it.

    Especially at this time of year, budgets are tight.  Some of you need to stop and use your noggin first before swallowing your foot in your reply.

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Sometimes I have to wonder about the intelligence of people.  Not everyone has a credit card.  Did any of you stop to think that after spending the $60 for the game the OP might not have immediately had the extra $15, because even if you use one of the disposable credit cards, it has to have $15 on it.

    Especially at this time of year, budgets are tight.  Some of you need to stop and use your noggin first before swallowing your foot in your reply.

    Which is your responsibilty ulitmately if you don't check first before you buy. Feigning ignorance and then complaining after accepting terms isn't a defense.

    Also as a lot of others have said you aren't charged now, all adding a credit card does it check it's a valid card for a subscription plan.  This isn't a new concept.  MMO's have done this for years, you aren't, 'paying' extra to access the game now. Cancel the plan before 30days and you aren't charged anymore.  

    Sorry but yours and the OP's hate for EA/Bioware is up to you but there not scrouging you this Christmas lol

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • MrblurayMrbluray Toronto, ONPosts: 248Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Sometimes I have to wonder about the intelligence of people.  Not everyone has a credit card.  Did any of you stop to think that after spending the $60 for the game the OP might not have immediately had the extra $15, because even if you use one of the disposable credit cards, it has to have $15 on it.

    Especially at this time of year, budgets are tight.  Some of you need to stop and use your noggin first before swallowing your foot in your reply.

    They give you the option of using Paypal or entering a game time card code.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Omnifish

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Sometimes I have to wonder about the intelligence of people.  Not everyone has a credit card.  Did any of you stop to think that after spending the $60 for the game the OP might not have immediately had the extra $15, because even if you use one of the disposable credit cards, it has to have $15 on it.

    Especially at this time of year, budgets are tight.  Some of you need to stop and use your noggin first before swallowing your foot in your reply.

    Which is your responsibilty ulitmately if you don't check first before you buy. Feigning ignorance and then complaining after accepting terms isn't a defense.

    Also as a lot of others have said you aren't charged now, all adding a credit card does it check it's a valid card for a subscription plan.  This isn't a new concept.  MMO's have done this for years, you aren't, 'paying' extra to access the game now. Cancel the plan before 30days and you aren't charged anymore.  

    Sorry but yours and the OP's hate for EA/Bioware is up to you but there not scrouging you this Christmas lol

    Are you dense? if you enter a credit card without at least $15 on it, it will not take it.  Secondly, yes it says it requires a subscription on the box, but in very fine print.  I don't see any hate from the OP, just a disgruntled customer.  Nothing worse than people who use the "hate" word without one clue about how and when it applies.

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