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No Endgame? Really?

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  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    Didn't you read my post? The guy is no average joe. He rushed to level cap. He knew what to do beforehand. He knew where to go beforehand. He had a friend helping him all the way. He skipped EVERY SINGLE VOICE OVER IN THE GAME. Your average joe does not skip every single voice over in the game. Your average joe does not come into a game knowing which skill rotation works best, which gear layout is most effective, which companion will suit their needs, which specialization will work best, etc. Admit it, you are distorting pieces of information to suit your trolling needs.

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by sgel



    Neither is it a place for you if you can't read what they are typing and instead choose to put your own words into their mouth.

    "noting a concern of mine"... try and look up what it means.

    Going all "fundamentalist conservative" full-auto defence is kind of an over-reaction don't you think?... This is a public forum and the only one that seems to have trouble accepting other people's perception is you.

    Read again what you wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, we would like to introduce to you the source of Mediocrity in the gaming world.

    Don't you realize how narrow-minded and offensive this is?

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    Didn't you read my post? The guy is no average joe. He rushed to level cap. He knew what to do beforehand. He knew where to go beforehand. He had a friend helping him all the way. He skipped EVERY SINGLE VOICE OVER IN THE GAME. Your average joe does not skip every single voice over in the game. Your average joe does not come in to a game knowing which skill rotation works best, which gear layout is most effective, and which companion will suit their needs, which specialization will work best, etc. Admit it, you are distorting pieces of information to suit your trolling needs.

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • SepulcherSepulcher Phoenix, AZPosts: 216Member

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by Sepulcher

    I do not require specifics, because I am not in a position where I care what you think.  If you can not come to terms with reality there is not amount of "evidence" i can show you to make you understand.  You will just wiggle your way through and around any point i try to make.  I refuse to go on the defensive and build up an air tight legal document for some random guy on a forum.  If you do not wish to do research yourself, i couldnt care less that you march yourself down the road of ignorance.

    Yes, you do require specifics. Every time you make an argument, you back it up with credible sources and not some ambiguous analogy. If you don't care what I think, then you shouldn't have even responded to my post.

    Show me this rule that says I need to provide you with specifics?  If you want the information go find it.  If you don't care to look, oh well.  I have read the information on both sides, I have played the game, I have watched videos, talked to friends in early access, talked to people who bought it at launch, read multiple forums, I have played and own all of Biowares other games, I came to this discussion prepared and demand nothing of others except logic and the ability to produce abstract thought.

    Swtor deserves nothing.  It gets what it earns.  If it earns bad reviews then it deserves them.  Calling the people who give the reviews biased or wrong means nothing.  The fact that so many have taken the time to list complaints, many of them going into detail, many not, shows you there is something fundamentally wrong with the game.

    I didn't call out anyone out for doing a bad review. The fact that many have received the game extremely well shows you that there is something fundamentally right.  

    More negative reviews than positive, if you decide to pick and choose which opinions you consider valid, more power to you.  Just because someone gets paid to give a review doesnt make their opinion better.  They are still a person and just as biased as everyone else.  If the reviewer is a part of a gaming website, im sorry to tell you this but they are more likely to give positive reviews even if a game sucks.  Why you ask?  Because their site gets paid by advertisements and if they bash all the crappy games, they would have no one left to fund them.  Money speaks louder than truth.

    It is a god damn star wars mmo.  The largest video game publisher in the world (EA) backed it, one of the most flaunted RPG developers in the world (Bioware) created it, and the IP is again, god damn star wars, one of the most recognized IPs in the world.  If these three things were not enough to get a fun and finished product out the door, they deserve poor reviews.  

    Whether it is fun or not is entirely subjective. I, as well as many others, believe this game to live up to its IP.

    Prove to me that others like this game.  According to your own flawed logic you have to provide proof of everything you say.  No proof, then your point is invalid.  Hi gander my name is goose.

    Not even the community on the WoW forums wanted it to fail, it was probably the only time I have seen WoW players support an upstart and hope for the best.  Everyone wanted to see this game become something, the market needs it, but they dropped the ball and just slapped STAR WARS on it.

    Innovation for the sake of innovation is unnecessary. If the fundamental mechanics work fine and keep the majority happy, there is no reason to change it. What matters is if its well-made and entertaining. I would like to add that the story mechanics BioWare introduced to the MMORPG genre are extremely innovative.

    Subjective opinion, no facts.  Invalid.

    Go check reviews at multiple sources, discount any that give 100% or 0% as their score (clearly biased, a game would have to be utterly flawless for 100% or not even load to get a 0%) and you will see a majority give bad reviews.

    I take user reviews with a grain of salt. As I have stated before, there are multiple reviews that are absolutely positive about the game. What I will tell you is this. Wait for the market's reception (meaning numbers) to it and come back to your doom-filled predictions.

    See above.  I do not predict doom.  I can see the writing on the wall.  It will not be the success players hoped it would be.  It will sell many boxes but it will not retain many subs.

     

    I respond not for your sake, but to provide counter points to oblivious acceptance.  You as an individual are not important to my position, just the uninformed ideas you represent.

  • sgelsgel HeraklionPosts: 1,087Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by sgel



    Neither is it a place for you if you can't read what they are typing and instead choose to put your own words into their mouth.

    "noting a concern of mine"... try and look up what it means.

    Going all "fundamentalist conservative" full-auto defence is kind of an over-reaction don't you think?... This is a public forum and the only one that seems to have trouble accepting other people's perception is you.

    Read again what you wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, we would like to introduce to you the source of Mediocrity in the gaming world.

    Don't you realize how narrow-minded and offensive this is?

    Maybe that's what you think, I think it's simply true.

    I have more trouble with gamers supporting mediocre games than I have with developers developing them.

    They slow down the evolution of gaming experiences.

     

    ..Cake..

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by sgel



    Neither is it a place for you if you can't read what they are typing and instead choose to put your own words into their mouth.

    "noting a concern of mine"... try and look up what it means.

    Going all "fundamentalist conservative" full-auto defence is kind of an over-reaction don't you think?... This is a public forum and the only one that seems to have trouble accepting other people's perception is you.

    Read again what you wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, we would like to introduce to you the source of Mediocrity in the gaming world.

    Don't you realize how narrow-minded and offensive this is?

    What are you getting so worked up for anyways?

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • AnolevAnolev Seattle, WAPosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    if this is true i feel for TOR cause theres not much else for them to do, leveling to cap only takes about 60 hours game time.

    You completely distort certain pieces of information to suit your liking. The person that got to level cap in 60 hours in-game only did so because he skipped all VO's, did nothing but quests, knew where the quests were, how to do them, the order in which to do them, had tremendous amounts of experience with his class, and had a friend helping him out.

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    I think his point is that you're taking an extreme case, and portraying it as the average/typical case.

    I consider myself an average Joe... and no way I'm getting to 50 in 60 hours.  That's just crazy talk. 

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Just because you skip the content doesn't mean it's not there.

    I'm not just taking about cutscenes either. There are a lot of other fun things to do on your way to cap.


    People think that because some people skip everything, it's not there.

    Also, 15 people doesn't really qualify as a good sample. Especially if those 15 people are actually from the same group.

    My guild has more people than that and they aren't skipping cutscenes, does that mean Boone does it? Absolutely not.

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  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by JPTX

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    if this is true i feel for TOR cause theres not much else for them to do, leveling to cap only takes about 60 hours game time.

    You completely distort certain pieces of information to suit your liking. The person that got to level cap in 60 hours in-game only did so because he skipped all VO's, did nothing but quests, knew where the quests were, how to do them, the order in which to do them, had tremendous amounts of experience with his class, and had a friend helping him out.

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    I think his point is that you're taking an extreme case, and portraying it as the average/typical case.

    I consider myself an average Joe... and no way I'm getting to 50 in 60 hours.  That's just crazy talk. 



    60 hours of IN-GAME time, go check and see how many hours you have played IN-GAME and come back and let us know ...

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Originally posted by bloodbone

     


     


    However, I’ve seen a few shocking user reviews today that claim there is no end game…… at all.  That’s not to say a crappy end game like a few flashpoints and 1 raid but literally no end game what so ever. 


     

     

    Plain and simple...those people are morons.  The game is releasing with more endgame content than any themepark MMO has been released with in years.  

     

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • sgelsgel HeraklionPosts: 1,087Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    The game is releasing with more endgame content than any themepark MMO has been released with in years.  

     

    What?... could you repeat that please?

    ..Cake..

  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAPosts: 6,068Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Plain and simple...those people are morons.  The game is releasing with more endgame content than any themepark MMO has been released with in years.  

     

    By all means, tell us about it.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • AnolevAnolev Seattle, WAPosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Originally posted by JPTX


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    if this is true i feel for TOR cause theres not much else for them to do, leveling to cap only takes about 60 hours game time.

    You completely distort certain pieces of information to suit your liking. The person that got to level cap in 60 hours in-game only did so because he skipped all VO's, did nothing but quests, knew where the quests were, how to do them, the order in which to do them, had tremendous amounts of experience with his class, and had a friend helping him out.

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    I think his point is that you're taking an extreme case, and portraying it as the average/typical case.

    I consider myself an average Joe... and no way I'm getting to 50 in 60 hours.  That's just crazy talk. 



    60 hours of IN-GAME time, go check and see how many hours you have played IN-GAME and come back and let us know ...

    I understand what you're saying.  Unfortunately I won't be able to answer your question until I'm 50.  :)

    But if I recall correctly, I recall reading during beta that it was taking folks 100-200 hours of game time to reach 50.  That's all I have to go on until I have my own data point.  Incidentally, is there a /played command in game?  

  • AnolevAnolev Seattle, WAPosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    Woah woah woah...

    They'll be 50 by this weekend, having played 60 hours?  That's 60 hours in 4 days?  Or even if you're including early access, that's 60 hours in about 9 days?  

    You're saying that the AVERAGE JOE gamer plays 6-15 hours PER DAY?  

    I'm average.  I have a family.  I'm lucky if I can play 6-15 hours PER WEEK!

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    What JPTX said. The average gamer doesn't play ten hours a day.

    Shadow's Hand Guild
    Open recruitment for

    The Secret World - Dragons

    Planetside 2 - Terran Republic

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    http://www.shadowshand.com

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by Sepulcher

    Show me this rule that says I need to provide you with specifics?  If you want the information go find it.  If you don't care to look, oh well.  I have read the information on both sides, I have played the game, I have watched videos, talked to friends in early access, talked to people who bought it at launch, read multiple forums, I have played and own all of Biowares other games, I came to this discussion prepared and demand nothing of others except logic and the ability to produce abstract thought.

    It's called a "rational discussion". If YOU can't back up what YOU say, I couldn't give a damn about your argument. Read this, it may help:

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-have-a-rational-discussion/

    More negative reviews than positive, if you decide to pick and choose which opinions you consider valid, more power to you.  Just because someone gets paid to give a review doesnt make their opinion better.  They are still a person and just as biased as everyone else.  If the reviewer is a part of a gaming website, im sorry to tell you this but they are more likely to give positive reviews even if a game sucks.  Why you ask?  Because their site gets paid by advertisements and if they bash all the crappy games, they would have no one left to fund them.  Money speaks louder than truth.

    Oh really? There are more negatives than positives? Care to prove that or are you just making shit up?

    Prove to me that others like this game.  According to your own flawed logic you have to provide proof of everything you say.  No proof, then your point is invalid.  Hi gander my name is goose.

    HAHAHA this is RICH. I could spend all day providing you with examples that others like this game. Check Elikal, Dexter, Spock, Taugrim, Dark Pony, etc. How about feedback from professionals: Check MMORPG.com, Massively.com, IGN.com

    Subjective opinion, no facts.  Invalid.

    There are people that value innovation over fun, good for them. I don't think that's the case with the vast majority of the market though, do you? World of Warcraft's millions tell you anything? And how is BioWare's story being an innovation an invalid point?

    See above.  I do not predict doom.  I can see the writing on the wall.  It will not be the success players hoped it would be.  It will sell many boxes but it will not retain many subs.

    And I predict it will sell many boxes and retain many subs. Bookmark this thread, let's make a bet shall we? Check back in say.. 3-6 months?

     

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by JPTX

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by JPTX


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    if this is true i feel for TOR cause theres not much else for them to do, leveling to cap only takes about 60 hours game time.

    You completely distort certain pieces of information to suit your liking. The person that got to level cap in 60 hours in-game only did so because he skipped all VO's, did nothing but quests, knew where the quests were, how to do them, the order in which to do them, had tremendous amounts of experience with his class, and had a friend helping him out.

    And it took 60 hours game time, so whats your point. It will take the average joe 60 hours game time to hit cap.

     

    I think theres alot more *spacebar* going on then you think...

    I think his point is that you're taking an extreme case, and portraying it as the average/typical case.

    I consider myself an average Joe... and no way I'm getting to 50 in 60 hours.  That's just crazy talk. 



    60 hours of IN-GAME time, go check and see how many hours you have played IN-GAME and come back and let us know ...

    I understand what you're saying.  Unfortunately I won't be able to answer your question until I'm 50.  :)

    But if I recall correctly, I recall reading during beta that it was taking folks 100-200 hours of game time to reach 50.  That's all I have to go on until I have my own data point.  Incidentally, is there a /played command in game?  



    Yes you can check it now if you like but i'm not sure what the key command is for it.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • SepulcherSepulcher Phoenix, AZPosts: 216Member

    Originally posted by stayontarget

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23



    Plain and simple...those people are morons.  The game is releasing with more endgame content than any themepark MMO has been released with in years.  

     

    By all means, tell us about it.

    Indeed.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by JPTX

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    Woah woah woah...

    They'll be 50 by this weekend, having played 60 hours?  That's 60 hours in 4 days?  Or even if you're including early access, that's 60 hours in about 9 days?  

    You're saying that the AVERAGE JOE gamer plays 6-15 hours PER DAY?  

    I'm average.  I have a family.  I'm lucky if I can play 6-15 hours PER WEEK!



    That would be about 6.6 hours a day for 9 days and yes that would be about average for a new release. I understand that alot of people do not have the time to play 6 hours a day me included. But i don't think we make up a majority of TOR players either.

     

    Most of my guild mates are in there mid 20's and 30's and single or have girlfriends, i would say about 10 percent of us are married and have kids.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    See, you're not making any sense here. You're not making any sense like (2+2) = 0 doesn't make any sense. If a hardcore rusher with tons of experience and help trying to become world first to 50 can do it in 60 hours how can an average joe do it in 60 hours?

  • junzo316junzo316 Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,684Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Originally posted by JPTX


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru


    Originally posted by stealthbr


    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

    There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

    Don't hate the player hate the game...

    LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    Woah woah woah...

    They'll be 50 by this weekend, having played 60 hours?  That's 60 hours in 4 days?  Or even if you're including early access, that's 60 hours in about 9 days?  

    You're saying that the AVERAGE JOE gamer plays 6-15 hours PER DAY?  

    I'm average.  I have a family.  I'm lucky if I can play 6-15 hours PER WEEK!



    That would be about 6.6 hours a day for 9 days and yes that would be about average for a new release.



    Would love to know where you get your figures from.  I'm an average player and lucky if I get to play 1-2 hours a night after work.  Even for a new release, that's not average......

     

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

     

    I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

    See, you're not making any sense here. Your not making any sense like (2+2) = 0 doesn't make any sense. If a hardcore rusher with tons of experience and help trying to become world first to 50 can do it in 60 hours how can an average joe do it in 60 hours?

    Do you even have a clue as to what that guy did to get to 50?

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by BlackUhuru

    Do you even have a clue as to what that guy did to get to 50?

    Obviously you don't. There's a thread about it in the SWTOR forums. He said he wanted to become world first. He said he skipped all VO's. He did it with a friend. He said he knew all the quests beforehand. He said he had been playing his class for a couple of months. He said he did nothing but quests. Seriously, bro, give up.

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